Catalonia

[Abertawe]

Not trying to be edgy, just pointing out it's not as one sided as you're implying, even amongst Catalonians.

Most if those in the pro unity march aren't Catalan.

 

[Pagnell]

You know that how precisely?

 

[Abertawe]

There are pictures on social media of unity activists from all parts of Spain boarding coaches, like loads. Do you know how much money is at stake for Spain and the subsequent knock on effects for the EU. Surely every scouser should have an understanding as to how the system operates.

 

[Aber gas]

You know that how precisely?

Given that the independence movement won with 92% of the vote in the recent referendum ( obviously not counting the voters violently suppressed by the Spanish government) and the proliferation of sources citing the blatant mobilisation of nationalist/ monarchist elements by the Spanish state ( they’re not coy about it) I would say that Aber’s assertion is fair enough.

 

[Laker]

Given that the independence movement won with 92% of the vote in the recent referendum ( obviously not counting the voters violently suppressed by the Spanish government) and the proliferation of sources citing the blatant mobilisation of nationalist/ monarchist elements by the Spanish state ( they’re not coy about it) I would say that Aber’s assertion is fair enough.

I would say it's hard to determine exactly which way all of the 58% of voters who didn't vote would have voted - partly because some pro-Separatist voters were targeted by the police, as you say, but partly because of the general boycott by pro-Unionists.

Assuming 100% turnout, I believe "Si" would have won but I don't think it would have been quite as high as 92%.

It's such a mess now though. It's such a shame the Spanish government didn't give them a "legal vote" at some point in the past.

 

[The Paranoid Pineapple]

Yes. Most of the opinion polls in the run up to the referendum had public opinion as being fairly evenly split. It's pretty clear there was a very large boycott by pro-Unionists, hence the low turnout, so I don't think very much at all can be read into the result of the referendum.

I agree that the ideal thing would have been to allow the staging of a proper referendum but I imagine that would have opened up a real can of worms, with other autonomous regions making the same demand. Do agree that Madrid have handled the issue very badly and made things extraordinarily messy, though.

 

[Abertawe]

Why do you think there hasn't been a legit referendum?

 

[Aber gas]

Yes. Most of the opinion polls in the run up to the referendum had public opinion as being fairly evenly split. It's pretty clear there was a very large boycott by pro-Unionists, hence the low turnout, so I don't think very much at all can be read into the result of the referendum.

I agree that the ideal thing would have been to allow the staging of a proper referendum but I imagine that would have opened up a real can of worms, with other autonomous regions making the same demand. Do agree that Madrid have handled the issue very badly and made things extraordinarily messy, though.

I think we can take something from the referendum result. If you take into account the estimates of those denied the right to vote which even at conservative estimates is approx 700,000 then that would give the independence camp almost 2 thirds of the vote. Obviously I’m assuming those denied a vote were voting yes, but I’m pretty happy with that assumption tbh.

 

[AnimoEtFide]

I was never a big fan, but Road Rage and Mulder and Scully were enjoyable enough.