Ched Evans

[RavenBish]

Funny really when he's a supporter of a club that idolised a murderer.

death by dangerous driving*

No relevance to this thread either. I wouldn't call for an entire fanbase to honour kill their chairman and mass burn their shirts if their club signed Evans.

 

[TheMinsterman]

I've never quite understood the sort of macabre cult following Ched Evans has, there's far more suitable (and palatable) poster boys to display the detrimental long term mental and reputational damage of false rape allegations than a man who, even if eventually proven innocent of rape, essentially cheated on his partner by sleazily sneaking into a hotel to share a woman with his team mate.

 

[JaseTheVillain]

No. Why should it be? Obviously his character has been defamed, but that doesn't mean his alleged victim has acted unreasonably. She clearly has at least some basis for the accusation otherwise the case wouldn't have gone to trial.

If a person has spent jail time due to a false conviction, and also had their character defamed due to said conviction (which, inevitably it would be), then justice should dictate that that person be compensated, and seeing as this is going to now follow him around for the rest of his life, and has resulted in a massive loss of earnings (as it would due to any false conviction/imprisonment), yes, he should be compensated. And what basis? She brought charges forward, claimed she couldn't remember anything, then gave more evidence against (how that isn't suspect is beyond me), and got a conviction. In the event that Mr Evans is found not guilty, she should be charged with miscarriage of justice and deformation of character in my humble opinion.

 

[PaulHaddock]

Whether he's proven 'innocent' or not doesn't change what he did- he still had sex with her, whilst a teammate watched on, in some hotel room somewhere, whilst he had a loving partner. For me, the intention was still there. If the girl was too drunk to consent, how would she notice or even care at the time who was having sex with her. I doubt that our friend Ched stopped for a minute and thought "should I do this?" The man is clearly an idiot and as others have said, unless she comes out and says she's making it up, it will stay that way.

 

[JaseTheVillain]

Yes. He's a twat. But the character of a person has no legal binding on a court case, surely you know that?

 

[TheMinsterman]

If a person has spent jail time due to a false conviction, and also had their character defamed due to said conviction (which, inevitably it would be), then justice should dictate that that person be compensated, and seeing as this is going to now follow him around for the rest of his life, and has resulted in a massive loss of earnings (as it would due to any false conviction/imprisonment), yes, he should be compensated. And what basis? She brought charges forward, claimed she couldn't remember anything, then gave more evidence against (how that isn't suspect is beyond me), and got a conviction. In the event that Mr Evans is found not guilty, she should be charged with miscarriage of justice and deformation of character in my humble opinion.

She shouldn't be charged with anything unless its demonstrable that she reported the case with malicious intent and was deliberately trying to defame him, which based on what little we do know certainly doesn't appear to be the case. Any compensation he receives should be from the state, not her.

 

[Aber gas]

She shouldn't be charged with anything unless its demonstrable that she reported the case with malicious intent and was deliberately trying to defame him, which based on what little we do know certainly doesn't appear to be the case. Any compensation he receives should be from the state, not her.

Can you imagine how far back women's rights in regards to rape would be put back if evan's victim was forced to pay compensation. Christ, there is still a massive amount of unreported sexual assault in this country due to there still being a stigma attached to victims. Adding a financial penalty would be ridiculous and disgustingly counterproductive.

 

[TheMinsterman]

Can you imagine how far back women's rights in regards to rape would be put back if evan's victim was forced to pay compensation. Christ, there is still a massive amount of unreported sexual assault in this country due to there still being a stigma attached to victims. Adding a financial penalty would be ridiculous and disgustingly counterproductive.

It'd be ridiculously misguided to try and convict a woman who made an honest mistaken accusation, there's a massive chasm between reporting somebody because you genuinely believe you've been wronged and what people immediately visualise as a woman who is maliciously defaming a man by using an incredibly inflammatory accusation to destroy him to either gain some sort of revenge or avoid some sort of awkward social position by admitting consensual sex. Nothing really suggests this woman deliberately and maliciously set out to destroy Ched Evans with flagrantly fallacious accusations, it's entirely possible she can feel violated whilst Evan's can genuinely argue he could reasonably assume consent was given, making him not a rapist and her certainly not a liar. It's not so black and white like people are acting, Evans been cleared doesn't de facto equate to her being a criminal.

I don't genuinely buy into it being proof of widespread misogyny, honestly I think it's partly people acting from ignorance because they can relate more to a man being falsely accused because they're also male and can sympathise with how they'd feel under similar circumstances, but there's certainly some people trying to flip this back on a person who doesn't deserve it. If you want to fly the flag of male rights advocacy in our legal system, Ched Evans shouldn't even make the list of examples and you should certainly be reticent of the fact that not all accusations are made with malicious intent.

 

[JJH]

We have a justice system for a reason so I don't see why I wouldn't be. He'd still be a thoroughly vile human being though and I'd resent him getting his grubby paws on any compensation. It would also set a worrying precedent.

I think he's an idiot, don't get me wrong; but why would Evans not be entitled to compensation?

If at the retrail he gets found not guilty, he's been falsely convicted and served time that he shouldn't have, in the meantime losing out on a hell of a lot of money and tarring his name with something that will stick with him for the rest of his life.

If he's found not-guilty, he should be absolutely entitled to some form of conpensation. I hate to think how much it would be mind.

 

[TractorBoys]

To pretty much echo what most people have said... he's clearly a bit of a sleazy twat, but a rapist? No, probably not. Pretty sure he'll be found innocent now as convictions are rarely quashed without significant cause.

And to clear up the compo- yes, obviously he'll be in for a very large pay day should he be found innocent, no question. It's hardly setting a worrying precedent either, compensation for wrongful convictions with time spent have always been covered for compensation. Clearly paid for by the state btw, not the lass. Just because he's found innocent doesn't necessarily mean she's falsified claims either... "beyond reasonable doubt". It's not an 'either or' scenario.

 

[mowgli]

To pretty much echo what most people have said... he's clearly a bit of a sleazy twat, but a rapist? No, probably not. Pretty sure he'll be found innocent now as convictions are rarely quashed without significant cause.

And to clear up the compo- yes, obviously he'll be in for a very large pay day should he be found innocent, no question. It's hardly setting a worrying precedent either, compensation for wrongful convictions with time spent have always been covered for compensation.

Not everyone gets compensation though, remember Barry George who served time for the murder of Jill Dando? He was eventually found not guilty but was refused any compensation so it's not a given Evans is in line for any.

 

[Dr Mantis Toboggan]

i've heard of cases where people who have successfully sued for compensation for wrongful imprisonment have later been hit with a fine for room and board by the prison

 

[TractorBoys]

Not everyone gets compensation though, remember Barry George who served time for the murder of Jill Dando? He was eventually found not guilty but was refused any compensation so it's not a given Evans is in line for any.

Fair shout, that's an exceptional case though (and pretty sure it's now being considered by the European courts? So not definite just yet either).

 

[blade1889]

i've heard of cases where people who have successfully sued for compensation for wrongful imprisonment have later been hit with a fine for room and board by the prison

I dont know if I'm having a woooosh moment here, but seriously? Can you remember any specific cases cos that's crazy

 

[TractorBoys]

i've heard of cases where people who have successfully sued for compensation for wrongful imprisonment have later been hit with a fine for room and board by the prison

I dont know if I'm having a woooosh moment here, but seriously? Can you remember any specific cases cos that's crazy

That happens in America. Not in the UK, though.

 

[Dr Mantis Toboggan]

first result for 'wrongful imprisonment room and board'

 

[JaseTheVillain]

That's not room and board though is it? It is a deduction from their compensation for what would have been basic living conditions.

 

[Dr Mantis Toboggan]

i've heard of cases where people who have successfully sued for compensation for wrongful imprisonment have later been hit with a fine for room and board by the prison

That's not room and board though is it? It is a deduction from their compensation for what would have been basic living conditions.

'Three men who spent years in jail after being wrongly convicted of murder will have to pay for their prison board and lodgings, Law Lords have ruled.'

which is what i said. paying for their prison board and lodgings is being fined. this wouldn't have happened if they didn't seek compensation

 

[JaseTheVillain]

Okay, but if you read the article, and not just the headline, it states it is to pay for necessities of life. So, what they'd have been paying out of prison basically.

 

[Dr Mantis Toboggan]

i have read the article thank you, none of that contradicts what i said, does it, u finicky little man

 

[JaseTheVillain]

Yes, as you said they have to pay board and lodgings, that is incorrect.

 

[RavenBish]

To pretty much echo what most people have said... he's clearly a bit of a sleazy twat, but a rapist? No, probably not. Pretty sure he'll be found innocent now as convictions are rarely quashed without significant cause.

And to clear up the compo- yes, obviously he'll be in for a very large pay day should he be found innocent, no question. It's hardly setting a worrying precedent either, compensation for wrongful convictions with time spent have always been covered for compensation. Clearly paid for by the state btw, not the lass. Just because he's found innocent doesn't necessarily mean she's falsified claims either... "beyond reasonable doubt". It's not an 'either or' scenario.

Precedent in terms of what we define as rape and what we don't. I'm trying to think what he gets cleared on (unless it's a changed witness statement) and it will essentially be how drunk she was. If you can sneak into a room with a girl who is naked on a bed with your mate and then have it off with her yourself, witness statements cancel each other out and then it's just a case of how drunk she was as to whether you'll get done for rape - that's troublesome in my mind.

 

[Aaron-Bcfc]

It's off topic from the whether Ched Evans is innocent or not, but does anyone know why Evans was hounded so much by the media/public upon release, compared to other stories involving footballers and jail time?

Evans wasn't allowed to train with a club after release due to huge pressure from the media/public, whereas Lee Hughes walked straight back into the game, no one batted an eyelid at Luke McCormick, and Marlon King also came straight back into the game without any bother after a series of convictions including sexual assault. Then when you think Troy Deeney is now featuring as a pundit on match of the day, when just a few years ago he was serving a sentence for assault that saw him kicking a defenceless victim in the head.

Just seems odd to me that Evans couldn't return to the game, when others who have served similar/longer sentences, had little bother returning.

 

[silkyman]

This was discussed at the time on here and it was probably a combination of factors. One was that killing someone drink driving is always accidental. No one sets out to do it. Rape is on purpose. Another is probably just the world we live in now. You can boil it down to two words. Social Media, or more succinctly, one, Twitter. 'Public opinion' is easy to access now.

If Hughes was released from prison tomorrow rather than X years ago, there's probably be the same Twitter explosion with sponsors and celebrities demanding that they are barred from playing for ever.

 

[silkyman]

She shouldn't be charged with anything unless its demonstrable that she reported the case with malicious intent and was deliberately trying to defame him, which based on what little we do know certainly doesn't appear to be the case. Any compensation he receives should be from the state, not her.

She didn't even bring the charge. She reported a lost handbag, recounted events that she could remember and was told she might have been raped and encouraged to push for it.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/wo...son-plays-no-part-in-the-Ched-Evans-saga.html

As you say, unless the new evidence is something which proves beyond doubt that she had lied in court specifically to get Evans and McDonald banged up, then it'll remain 'he said she said' or rather, 'he said, she didn't say and others inferred' for ever.

If the new evidence was a voicemail from her to a mate saying 'I'm going to say these footballers raped me for the compo' then she deserves everything she gets. But it probably won't be!

 

[Veggie Legs]

This was discussed at the time on here and it was probably a combination of factors. One was that killing someone drink driving is always accidental. No one sets out to do it. Rape is on purpose. Another is probably just the world we live in now. You can boil it down to two words. Social Media, or more succinctly, one, Twitter. 'Public opinion' is easy to access now.

If Hughes was released from prison tomorrow rather than X years ago, there's probably be the same Twitter explosion with sponsors and celebrities demanding that they are barred from playing for ever.

Isn't the biggest factor remorse? I don't know a lot about the other cases you mention but Evans has never accepted that he did anything wrong.

 

[mowgli]

Isn't the biggest factor remorse? I don't know a lot about the other cases you mention but Evans has never accepted that he did anything wrong.

Not legally perhaps but morally he behaved like a fucking idiot. This is a man who had a decent missus but still wanted to shag a pissed up woman just because he could being a footballer. I don't understand why he couldn't wait until he got home to bonk his partner but then we know most footballers have no brains and think with their cocks. I'm still of the opinion that if he is found not guilty in the retrial then he should be allowed to play football again but i just don't want him at the club i support because he is morally corrupt.

 

[silkyman]

Isn't the biggest factor remorse? I don't know a lot about the other cases you mention but Evans has never accepted that he did anything wrong.

That was part of what was discussed, yeah. It seems though, that he might have been justified in that.