CITY V VALE

[valefan16]

13 new signings? How many of which are young foreigners who never knew Port Vale even existed until a few weeks ago? I get the idea of it, I can't say I buy the poor little penniless act though - Vale are solid midtable L1 side who'll fluctuate a few positions either side year on year like a dozen other teams in this league, there'll always be teams who spend bigger but likewise Vale will spend more than others too. But when did lower league English third tier football become a breeding ground for developing unheard of foreign kids? Fair enough there's a first for everything and talk of an English core is a must but with so few examples of this working I don't see the odds being in favour of gaining success from it. From the outside there's a look of vanity project about it, getting excited because the new boss is mates with Jose, pinning hopes on ex-Monaco kids or whoever as if none of us have ever signed dross previously of a big named team when they were younger. We'll see.

As much of a chance of it working as if we sign players released from Crewe in fairness. We've actually done something similar at a higher level in the mid 90s to relative success. (All Dutch mind) signing the legendary Van Der Laan, Van Huesden, Koordes etc

Some will flop, some could be gems we will see. De Freitas looks a talent, Mbamba probably not so but we have got a decent spine of English/British players that were all key last season... Let's be honest can Klopps be worse than McGivern? Probably not.

The main pre-season hype is actually about one of our academy breakthrough lads who won player of the year on loan at Torquay and has been outstanding in pre season and may keep one of our Dutch centre halves out in Nathan Smith.

I'm excited for the season, more so than normal in that I haven't got a clue what to expect... Last year we were tipped to go down, saw us pre season against Getafe and adding that performance to the signings made I expected us to defy the odds (which we duly did) but this year haven't the foggiest and there's a bit of intrigue and excitement to that. With a player who's English from a club you've faced regularly you know what to expect and there's a boredom in that after so many years of dead end mid tableness (bar the promo season of course as with you 12/13 was a great year).

If the experiment doesn't work at least we've tried to think outside the box, if it does great stuff!

 

[F!RTHY]

There's a fair number of first choice pics with little preseason, still I think he'll go with -

...................Doyle.................
McMahon NKP Kilgallon Meredith
Morias Law Dieng Anderson
...........Hiwula Hanson..........

I hope you're right. Nathan Clarke in the starting XI doesn't fill me with much hope, TBH.

I think we'll see a different formation, with Anderson sitting out. I can see him accommodating both Dieng and Vincelot.

Love us to sack Hanson off, and field a 4-2-3-1.

Doyle

McMahon
Kilgallon
Knight-Percival
Meredith

Dieng
Vincelot

Morais
Clarke
Law

Hiwula

 

[leedsvaliant]

13 new signings? How many of which are young foreigners who never knew Port Vale even existed until a few weeks ago? I get the idea of it, I can't say I buy the poor little penniless act though - Vale are solid midtable L1 side who'll fluctuate a few positions either side year on year like a dozen other teams in this league, there'll always be teams who spend bigger but likewise Vale will spend more than others too. But when did lower league English third tier football become a breeding ground for developing unheard of foreign kids? Fair enough there's a first for everything and talk of an English core is a must but with so few examples of this working I don't see the odds being in favour of gaining success from it. From the outside there's a look of vanity project about it, getting excited because the new boss is mates with Jose, pinning hopes on ex-Monaco kids or whoever as if none of us have ever signed dross previously of a big named team when they were younger. We'll see.

But what you're failing to realise is that we've tried signing your average British league one journeyman and ended up playing for nothing. Our fan base is not increasing and we are increasingly competing with them lot down the road for every youngster born in our city. More of the same is just going to continue and kill this club. You're right, it could go horribly wrong but if even just 2 or 3 out of the 13 signed are better than what we had before, I think we'll have a better team. I think most vale fans would agree that we'd rather take the risk than be say an Oldham and continually sit in midtable for 30 years.
The difference as a Bradford fan is that you're always going to have 10-15 thousand base supporters, which gives you a standing start. We're a smaller city with 2 professional clubs, one of which is an established premier league club. If we don't take some risks to try and get us higher, we're never going to as we'll never afford the better players from this league or even the best from league two.

 

[LS Bantam]

I hope you're right. Nathan Clarke in the starting XI doesn't fill me with much hope, TBH.

I think we'll see a different formation, with Anderson sitting out. I can see him accommodating both Dieng and Vincelot.

Love us to sack Hanson off, and field a 4-2-3-1.

Doyle

McMahon
Kilgallon
Knight-Percival
Meredith

Dieng
Vincelot

Morais
Clarke
Law

Hiwula

I forgot about Vincelot!

 

[valefan16]

But what you're failing to realise is that we've tried signing your average British league one journeyman and ended up playing for nothing. Our fan base is not increasing and we are increasingly competing with them lot down the road for every youngster born in our city. More of the same is just going to continue and kill this club. You're right, it could go horribly wrong but if even just 2 or 3 out of the 13 signed are better than what we had before, I think we'll have a better team. I think most vale fans would agree that we'd rather take the risk than be say an Oldham and continually sit in midtable for 30 years.
The difference as a Bradford fan is that you're always going to have 10-15 thousand base supporters, which gives you a standing start. We're a smaller city with 2 professional clubs, one of which is an established premier league club. If we don't take some risks to try and get us higher, we're never going to as we'll never afford the better players from this league or even the best from league two.

Nail on the head... Clubs stagnated and fans disillusioned despite a decent season so need to try something different.

 

[finley]

kilgallon has had no preseason,he won't take part satdy.

 

[Agombar stool]

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 4, Guests: 6)

1. MJA,
2. LS Bantam,
3. Agombar stool, - now there is a surprise
4. markpvfc

I read all of the match day threads MJA FWIW.

 

[MJA]

I read all of the match day threads MJA FWIW.

It was a joke my friend

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

 

[Agombar stool]

It was a joke my friend

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

I know fella

 

[codaplenty]

Bradford 2 Port Vale 1

 

[mozzavale]

Unfortunately, I agree with LS Bantam. I've seriously become disillusioned with the club and think Smurf is slowly destroying us. Season ticket sales, even after the signings, are still way below last years figure, which speaks volumes. No doubt everything will be blamed on the fans though at some point, which is just lazy. There's no long term vision for what he wants to achieve, and certainly no concrete plan for how he's going about achieving it. A small vocal minority of fans are getting excited by a few name drops from Bruno (a manager with a track record of repeated failure so far). The majority are speaking with their money, and are very worried about the path Smurf is taking us. He is too unstable to be a success, everything he does just seems completely amateurish for me and shows he has zero understanding of the game. He's an embarrassment, and no doubt if he's still in charge at the end of this season, there'll be another brand new crazy plan he'll come up with. Whether you back Smurf or not, there's one thing no one can argue with, he's divided the fan base. After the promotion season we'd come out of admin, healed old wounds between fans that had spent years either for or against V2001, he had a great opportunity to build on a great platform to keep everyone together supporting the club.

As for this game I simply haven't got a clue how it's going to go. Obviously I want Vale to succeed and be proving completely wrong, but I just can't see it at the moment.

 

[MJA]

The Vale fan base will always be split no matter who is in charge or what they are doing. There is a section of Vale fans (mainly emanating from a certain forum) who still have this strange opinion that they should have lots of say in what happens at Vale and will spend lots of their time creating problems that aren't there just to suit their own agenda. This has basically come from the V2001 share scheme when fans thought that they could buy a share for a tenner and practically run the club. This has gone now and the club is now owned by a single businessman who pulls all of the strings and, whether you like it or not, you have to either go along with it or just simply give up on the club - I don't really see a middle ground.

Maybe this seasons strategy is a ploy to see if we can unearth a gem and allow Smurf to make a bit of money or maybe it is a ploy to try something different to get us up into the Championship where there is a lot more financial gain. Either way, Smurf will be looking to try and make money because that is what businessmen do and once these sort of people have made a £1, they are then not happy until they have made £2 and so on and so forth.

I am not sure if it is the same with every club, but I really feel that too many Vale fans are more interested in the off-field activities than they are with what happens on a Saturday afternoon on the pitch.

 

[mozzavale]

The Vale fan base wasn't split when Wildes was ultra positive, respectful, professional and had a clear path he wanted to take us as a club. OVF is a forum that anyone is entitled to join and post in, so long as they're not insulting. I very rarely post on there, but the vast majority of people I've spoken to share the general feeling reflected on OVF, that Smurf is an absolute fruit cake that is doing more damage than good to the club. Every club has groups of fans that want to change their club in some way shape or form, we're no different. What does our owner do, he argues with them publicly and insults them on twitter. These are supporters, potential customers ffs. That in itself shows the lack of basic marketing intelligence. He's a liability, and yet some (a small vocal minority) worship the ground he walks on. From what I can see, anyone with any kind of footballing background, and those with a degree of sense can see that he's making us a laughing stock. All that about him reducing the budget to get rid of Page. It's one thing that he'd act in such a disrespectful way, it's another that he made it public knowledge without predicting how pathetic it made him look. I'd be very surprised if Page hasn't sought advice for constructive dismissal, which it clearly is, by his own admission. It all points to the bloke being a massive liability.

 

[valefan16]

Losing Wildes was a big blow as he had great ideas and PR skills (but this was with Smurfs money) and we all know Smurf is diabolical at PR as I am sure he would admit but Smurf is clearly ruthless and very temperamental... however he is very successful as a businessman to build the career he has.

Lets not also forget as a club our budget and expenditure is miles bigger than it was under V2001 and we are actually being progressive.

He has handled some things in terrible ways... Exeter, Racism storm, Page and clearly lets heart rule head but without his money we'd be a mess.

 

[bantamigo]

I'm not confident at the moment, a few bad results at the start and we could be looking up at the table with no guarantee of a steady supply of goals. With Parkinson gone we can't just rely on 10 players defending and hoping to nick a one goal win all the time, and frankly I don't want us to do that anymore. But more attacking footy relies on having someone to put the ball in the net.

We have spent some money for a change which means we are strong in some areas but up front and we have low-balled people like Agard, got nowhere near them and in the wait for their response seen a lot of the steady free transfers who would hold down a spot be snapped up by other clubs. There's an argument that the new chairmen and the manager are right not to get ripped off but striker is not really a position where you can hope to scrimp.

Having said all that if you could pick one side to get a win under your belt at the start of the season other than the apparent train wrecks like Oldham it would probably be a Vale side who *could* turn up and play like they don't know each other.

 

[finley]

Romours Hanson been carried off in training and is a doubt for satdy.our need for a striker is getting desperate

 

[F!RTHY]

Romours Hanson been carried off in training and is a doubt for satdy.our need for a striker is getting desperate

It wouldn't be a bad thing, IMO.

Play to Hiwula's strengths, with the ball players we have, and we'll be just fine. We may even find our 20 goal-a-season striker whilst doing so.

Playing off Hanson is fucking tedious, now. He's largely the reason as to why we don't score enough. Instead of playing to everyone's strengths, we're consistently playing to Hanson's. He scores his dire 12 goals a season, and all of a sudden he's a 'handful'.

 

[bantamigo]

We need better than Hanson but we didn't play to his strengths last year. We were central, Reid couldn't deliver a christmas card and McMahon was not a winger so we went through the middle a lot more. Hanson getting the ball to feet outside the box with his back to goal renders him useless.

He will fare a lot better if we get it out wide and give him some decent deliveries onto his head this season. He will still be one of our main options this year, I just wish we had another solid option there other than Clarke who has been hit and miss after his injury and drops too deep to be a proper striker, and Hiwula who is an unknown quantity. I haven't seen Hiwula yet so hoping (praying) that he steps up.

 

[LS Bantam]

No Hanson? Well could mean -

----------------Hiwula-------------
Anderson Law/Clarke Morais
----------Dieng Vincelot----------

Those three behind the striker can swap around but it has a nice balance to it, maybe we'll see the first use of a system which isn't 442 in about 6 years

 

[leedsvaliant]

Unfortunately, I agree with LS Bantam. I've seriously become disillusioned with the club and think Smurf is slowly destroying us. Season ticket sales, even after the signings, are still way below last years figure, which speaks volumes. No doubt everything will be blamed on the fans though at some point, which is just lazy. There's no long term vision for what he wants to achieve, and certainly no concrete plan for how he's going about achieving it. A small vocal minority of fans are getting excited by a few name drops from Bruno (a manager with a track record of repeated failure so far). The majority are speaking with their money, and are very worried about the path Smurf is taking us. He is too unstable to be a success, everything he does just seems completely amateurish for me and shows he has zero understanding of the game. He's an embarrassment, and no doubt if he's still in charge at the end of this season, there'll be another brand new crazy plan he'll come up with. Whether you back Smurf or not, there's one thing no one can argue with, he's divided the fan base. After the promotion season we'd come out of admin, healed old wounds between fans that had spent years either for or against V2001, he had a great opportunity to build on a great platform to keep everyone together supporting the club.

As for this game I simply haven't got a clue how it's going to go. Obviously I want Vale to succeed and be proving completely wrong, but I just can't see it at the moment.

The trouble is, the old shareholders are still desperate to be involved and have a say in the running of the club and this is why they are so anti someone making their own decisions about the club. They hate the fact that they're not important anymore.
To be perfectly frank, I'd guess 90% of vale fans couldn't give a monkeys what smurf says or does. That whole racist fans was whipped into a tizzy by some real sensitive types.
I look at outcomes, which is how a business should be run. We're in a higher division and finished in the top half of league one last year. Yes, we have less season ticket holders but that's down to apathy towards how we were last season. Our attendances have generally been similar for years. People who use the excuse that the chairman has said a few silly things as a reason for not attending is quite frankly pathetic.
In my view, I couldn't care less what the chairman is like as a person, if he delivers then that is how he should be judged. He's taking a risk this season, no doubt, but some would prefer we just meandered along as long as we're a nice little football club and everybody likes us.

 

[leedsvaliant]

As for the game, we've always struggled against Hanson, in spite of the fact that Bradford fans seem divided on him. If he is injured, it will be a huge boost for us as i suspect some of our new defenders have not played against the lump it to the big man tactic.
Bradford look really solid in defence and will be tough to break down. their midfield is good as well but as with last season, they look short on creative flair and goalscoring at the moment. They always seem to be able to grind results out and be there or thereabouts, so I'm expecting a tough game. I reckon we'll have lots of possession, but we still look short of goals.
I think we'll lose by the odd goal as I think it will take us 4 or 5 games to click in. it's the worst possible fixture really for us to start.

 

[Nook Terrier]

Wouldn't get too excited over Hiwula upfront, more like Theo Robinson..

 

[valefan16]

Wouldn't have minded seeing Nathan Smith testing himself against Hanson. Sounds like Norwich are watching him so would have been a great test for the youngster.

Suppose if Bradford have to play it on the deck it will suit the foreign lads better.

 

[F!RTHY]

Wouldn't get too excited over Hiwula upfront, more like Theo Robinson..

I'm not.

He just offers pace, something of which we haven't necessarily had since Wells.

We have another striker coming in, so we should have options.

See you next season (in League 1).

 

[Nook Terrier]

I'm not.

He just offers pace, something of which we haven't necessarily had since Wells.

We have another striker coming in, so we should have options.

See you next season (in League 1).

Think Hanson will be ever relied upon again?

What's concensus with McCall?

Couple Bradford lads I know aren't keen after last time, although you've bought in Dieng who they're happy with.

Lol, you wish - come join us and Leeds when you're ready!

 

[bantamigo]

If McCall is like he was last time then we are in for a long season. He had the 'if you score 3 we'll score 4' mentality which was great when you were winning but if things went wrong on and we went a couple of goals down he just didn't know how to change it on the field and he looked like he'd get himself in a state about it. This was in L2 which is much lower standard than top end of L1 where we need to be.

Hopefully he's come back with more knowledge and a better mental outlook, I can't imagine he has got worse in these departments.

 

[mozzavale]

The trouble is, the old shareholders are still desperate to be involved and have a say in the running of the club and this is why they are so anti someone making their own decisions about the club. They hate the fact that they're not important anymore.
To be perfectly frank, I'd guess 90% of vale fans couldn't give a monkeys what smurf says or does. That whole racist fans was whipped into a tizzy by some real sensitive types.
I look at outcomes, which is how a business should be run. We're in a higher division and finished in the top half of league one last year. Yes, we have less season ticket holders but that's down to apathy towards how we were last season. Our attendances have generally been similar for years. People who use the excuse that the chairman has said a few silly things as a reason for not attending is quite frankly pathetic.
In my view, I couldn't care less what the chairman is like as a person, if he delivers then that is how he should be judged. He's taking a risk this season, no doubt, but some would prefer we just meandered along as long as we're a nice little football club and everybody likes us.

I disagree. I wasn't a shareholder, but I've always been a fan with an opinion. I'm not a closed book either. If Smurf does something worthy of praise, I'll give it, if he does something that I disagree with I'll voice my opinion too. I think a lot of fans / past shareholders are of a similar nature. Not in any particular camp, just concerned about what is best for the club, not Smurf.

 

[IanPVFC]

We have sold out our second allocation now. I have no idea how many this means however!

 

[MJA]

I disagree. I wasn't a shareholder, but I've always been a fan with an opinion. I'm not a closed book either. If Smurf does something worthy of praise, I'll give it, if he does something that I disagree with I'll voice my opinion too. I think a lot of fans / past shareholders are of a similar nature. Not in any particular camp, just concerned about what is best for the club, not Smurf.

I don't think leedsvaliant was aiming at you specifically mozza and I am sure most Vale fans like to keep an eye on off-field activities as obviously these can reflect what happens on the pitch. As I have said previously though, I firmly believe that there are fans of this club who take more interest in what happens off the field than on it, and that is simply something I cannot get my head around. In fact I would go as far as to say that there is not one business, whether I am a paying customer or not, where I give any sort of care as to what is happening behind the scenes.

 

[MJA]

The trouble is, the old shareholders are still desperate to be involved and have a say in the running of the club and this is why they are so anti someone making their own decisions about the club. They hate the fact that they're not important anymore.

This is so true. Fair play to those who played a part in bringing about the end of the V2001 reign but they need to accept that this is as far as their role went. The club, as with most clubs, is in the hands of a professional businessman who will make business like decisions to suit him and the direction he wants to take the club in. I am sure he will listen to his customers with regards to certain things but the constant crying of some about everything that he does or says is just tedious and boring.

If these people want to be making the big decisions and they believe they can make better decisions, then I would suggest they create a consortium to take over the club and then we can all enjoy the ride to the Premier League