Club size in order

[WilsdenBantam]

I've just sat and read the whole of this shit and yeah, you could definitely make a Netflix series out of this thread

Season 1 Episode 1

A plastic Salford fan by the name of Salfordian makes a thread, blatantly on a wind up, ranking all L2 clubs in size. Initially his table is scoffed at by Mansfield fans, who, as a small club themselves, say 'size doesn't matter, it's what you do with it'. Ian, controversially doesn't put Salford bottom of the table, cue more derision but on the whole his table doesn't get that many complaints. Ian logs out and thinks to himself 'oh fuck, I should've put Orient 17th to get more bites'.

Season 1 Episode 2

The Carlisle fans get giddy over their lofty position in the top 8 biggest clubs in Division 4. They decide to book a weekend in Sellafield to celebrate them being fucking MASSIVE. Meanwhile, some fans moan on about Swindon being 4th, 'they had one season in the Prem where they got buggered on a weekly basis by an ostrich feather duster, they're no bigger than Oldham!' This seems to hold broad agreement among fellow L2 brethren. Further petty squabbles break out as the board threatens to go into Meltdown. Only brief server downtime stops further bickering, and the 4th tier descending into ARMAGEDDON

Season 1 episode 3

Meanwhile there's a public outcry about not knowing exactly in what division Grimsby belong, but GTFCFish repeatedly states he doesn't give a fuck, so that's alright then. In E10, there's growing poster unrest about Orient being smaller than Northampton. 'pffft' 'haha good one you fackin mug'. It is thought that Orient may be slightly bigger, although not much in it, but definitely smaller than Plymouth, who really should be in the Premiership. There are then clashes as a Crewe fan claims that their club, who have finished bottom of Div 4 the most times out of anyone ever, is also bigger than Orient. Allegations of nonced up kids in youth academies surface before this dramatic episode comes to a close.

Season 1 Episode 4

The show starts in dramatic fashion as a spiced up Salfordian exclaims: 'eeeyah mate, fuckin' 'ell, Salford are biggoh than fuckin' FGR, don't ya know?' He's then brutally filmed in his spiced up state by fellow L2 inmates who laugh and take the piss as FGR 'are a much bigger club', at least according to the Mansfield fans. Perhaps they really think size does matter after all? Ian states that Salford were actually spawned out of some vegan doping scam that happened a few years ago when they didn't exist. The other posters know this is a reasonable point. Ian is determined to organise a bi-seasonal tinpot derby with them, to see who can out plastic each other.

To be continued.

Hate it when you're just getting into a series and it ends, hopefully we'll be in the next season.

To start the next season off i'll start by saying, nobody gives a toss about most of the tinpot clubs in this division. We're massive etc.

*Imagine a mic drop gif, because I can't be arsed going onto google to get one.

 

[E10rifle]

What do you mean promoted to the EFL? We've never been out of the football league to be promoted to it.

Pretty sure he meant EPL...

 

[The_Viking_Magpie]

Mate who works for you is confident on the takeover and heard rumours you want Sheridan again but not convinced myself.

I’m not a fan of rumours, and certainly not this one. But if it’s from a mate it must be true.

 

[Conker]

To be fair ya didn’t believe the rumours that County were in financial turmoil and Alan Hardy is a disaster so anything can happen.

 

[WilsdenBantam]

Pretty sure he meant EPL...

Makes sense. All these abbreviations are confusing, what happened to the days when we just called them the Premiership, Football League, Conference and below that who knows?

 

[northstandexile]

Exeter have been in the Conference

 

[Chris FGR]

Apparently our club is looking at head hunting another club historian/statistician as our current one is nearing retirement.

I've heard Jabba the gut is a prime candidate, due to his apparent huge breadth of expertise on us and he can expect his agent to receive an approach very shortly.

 

[T.A]

Jabba living rent free inside Chris's head.

 

[The_Viking_Magpie]

To be fair ya didn’t believe the rumours that County were in financial turmoil and Alan Hardy is a disaster so anything can happen.

Before accounts were published, before he made comments himself, then yeah I didn’t believe they were just rumours after all.

I was definitely wrong about whether he was a disaster or not, nobody and I mean nobody predicted this level of turd lol

 

[PlymouthCasual]

His thread reeks of small man syndrome. Were all relatively small, were all relatively shit. Lets see what happens come August when the first ball is kicked.

 

[Indian Dan]

Never understood why Plymouth have never attracted a money man, tbh. Great potential down there.

Trouble is, people have been saying that for donkey’s years.

 

[Trapdoor]

Never understood why Plymouth have never attracted a money man, tbh. Great potential down there.

Trouble is, people have been saying that for donkey’s years.

If you ever go to Plymouth and drive around the town you'll realise why nobody would want to invest there. Makes Grimsby look like New York.

 

[Indian Dan]

I know Plymouth quite well. Number 2 wife was from Plymstock.

Anyway, somebody with money looking for potential in a club wouldn’t give a rat’s arse what the Town was like.

 

[The_Viking_Magpie]

If you ever go to Plymouth and drive around the town you'll realise why nobody would want to invest there. Makes Grimsby look like New York.

Start spreading the news it doesn’t. It really doesn’t.

 

[SoutheySWFC]

Plymouth around the Hoe is lovely

 

[Jabba the gut]

What do you mean promoted to the EFL? We've never been out of the football league to be promoted to it.

Sorry, I meant EPL.

 

[Jabba the gut]

Ah those were the days, a decent proper stadium and we were actually quite good back then. To be fair, we were one of the few teams who were full time back then facing many part time sides including FGR, hence why we performed so well. What I would do to have a home record like we did at "Fortress Christie" but 2019 hasn't been so bad.

Yep. I much preferred Christie Park.

 

[Jabba the gut]

I'm glad I don't follow his twitter.

That said it's better to have coherent arguments with back up than some of the shite we all post.

TBF I think I only ever manage to reply with a single tweet 0.00000001% of the time.

 

[GTFCfish]

IMeanwhile there's a public outcry about not knowing exactly in what division Grimsby belong, but GTFCFish repeatedly states he doesn't give a fuck, so that's alright then.

I wouldn’t really class once as ‘repeatedly’ mucker.

 

[Jabba the gut]

Plymouth around the Hoe is lovely

The city centre isn't though. Comparing it with Grimsby's might be a little harsh, but certainly not outlandish.

 

[Jabba the gut]

Is that because you have a problem with Netflix as a company or because there's nothing on there you like? Because we can discuss the content of all streaming platforms within this thread.


But what did you think about Line of Duty?

Is that on Netflix? I'm still a bit of a luddite where streaming TV is concerned. I bought a Fire Stick ages ago and still haven't connected it.

 

[Soup Ladle]

I wouldn’t really class once as ‘repeatedly’ mucker.

I don't give a fuck where we belong

I don't give a fuck where we belong

I don't give a fuck where we belong

Better?

 

[Jabba the gut]

Never understood why Plymouth have never attracted a money man, tbh. Great potential down there.

Trouble is, people have been saying that for donkey’s years.

Probably because Devon & Cornwall - and to a lesser extent the entire South-West - is a terrible place for a football club. The potential is often greatly exaggerated.

 

[GTFCfish]

Better?

Haha quality.

 

[Jabba the gut]

Exeter have been in the Conference

Yep. And but for the EFL closed shop and then Macclesfield's failure to get their act together we'd probably have spent many more periods of time there. Our history suggests that had there always been automatic promotion and relegation between the EFL and NL, we'd haven been a lower 4th tier/upper 5th tier club.

 

[Jabba the gut]

I know Plymouth quite well. Number 2 wife was from Plymstock.

Anyway, somebody with money looking for potential in a club wouldn’t give a rat’s arse what the Town was like.

No, but they would care about things like whether the town was located in the back of beyond as far as the football industry is concerned, poor transport links both within its nonminal catchment area and to the rest of the country, a lack of a historical football culture in the region and so on.

As I say, the potential of clubs in the region is often vastly exaggerated. There are far better places for rich men to pursue vanity projects.

 

[AdamStag]

Is this really still going?

 

[Mark kavanagh]

Yes, mea culpa. Of the many facts I used to refute the absurd idea that you would be on a level with Morecambe and others without rigging the playing field I got one wrong. I must say that it's an interesting experience to be criticised for factual errors by fans who consistently dissemble and obfuscate in the defence of their club.

I must thank you for pulling me up, because it prompted me to take a closer look at your respective records. I must warn you that it's not pretty for those exaggerating your historic standing and minimising the effect of Vince's doping.

- For 16 years Between 1979-80 and 1994-5 Morecambe played one division higher than you (6th tier Northern Premier v 7th tier Southern League Midland division, then Southern division)

- For two years In 1995-6 and 1996-7 Morecambe played two divisions higher than you (5th tier Conference Premier v 7th tier Southern League Southern Division)

- In 1997-8 Morcambe again played one division higher than you (5th tier Conference Premier v 6th tier Southern League Premier Division)

- For eight years between 1998-99 and 2006-07 Morecambe were in the same division as you (Conference National) but only because you were reprieved from relegation in 2004 when Northwich were chucked out (as you were similarly saved from the 6th tier in 2010 when Salisbury were chucked out)

- For ten years between 2007-08 and 2017-18 Morecambe were in a higher division than you (4th tier EFL2 v 5th tier Conference National)

And as we all know in the last two years Vince's steroid injection has allowed you both to play in the same division once again.

Looking at those seasons when you and Morecambe were both in the Conference, and when you didn't have the advantage of massive doping is extremely revealing.

In 99-2000 and between 2001-02 and 2006-07 when they won promotion to the EFL, Morecambe finished above you - and being regular contenders for promotion, by contrast with your regular battles against relegation leavened by mid-table mediocrity, often far above you.

They beat you by 16 places in 99-2000, 12 places in 2001-02, 7 places in 2002-03, 11 places in 2003-04, 15 places in 2004-05, 14 places in 2005-06 and 11 places in 2006-07.

In Morecambe's Conference seasons they finished in the top 3 three times and the top 5 (i.e what would usually be 5th tier playoff positions) six times. They only finished outside the top half twice - and on one of those occasions only by three places.

In marked contrast to Morecambe's impressive Conference record, prior to Vince massively rigging the playing field in 2010-11 you only finished in the top half twice and never in the top 7 that would gain a playoff spot in the EFL, never mind the top 5 of the usual Conference playoff spots. In seven seasons you finished 18th or lower, twice ending up in the relegation positions and only being saved by other clubs' meltdowns.

That is the truth of the "good Conference career" without Vince's financial steroids that some of you regularly cite in your defence.

The upshot is that for 29 of the last 40 seasons (two-thirds of the time) Morecambe have played in a higher division than you - and it's only that close because you were saved from relegation by another club's misfortune and latterly benefited from your owner's performance-enhancing drugs. By contrast you have never played in a higher division than them. In 35 of those 40 seasons Morecambe have finished in a higher place.

Of the five seasons you turned the table on Morecambe it is not until this year that you managed to significantly outperform them with the aid of Vince's money. In the other four seasons you never finished above them by more than a measly three places.

Of course unlike yourselves, Morecambe once reached the EFL2 playoffs without any doping.

I thought about showing how often Morecambe have smashed FGRs attendance since the mid nineties - often doubling or nearly doubling your attendance. In fact they attracted treble FGR's attendance in 2011 (2.648 v 950) but this might be getting a bit cruel and neutrals might be starting to wilt.

Maybe later.



But clearly not boring enough for you to avoid making the time to respond.



This is simply the usual rubbish that fans of doped clubs trot out to deflect criticism of their egregious and highly damaging model. I'm hardly going to have a problem with small clubs when for most of my life we've been one of the smallest of the 92, am I?

I say again - I have a lot more time for some very small clubs than I do for many in the EFL and EPL. I hugely admire, follow and sometimes attend Corinthian Casuals, am a Trust member at Hampton & Richmond and a member of the breakaway Clapton Community FC.

I actually had a lot of time for the old, pre-doped. pre-Ecotricity Marketing FC FGR and would have cheered any success you had, but I'm not going to cheer the way you're going about things now and the complicity of the likes of yourselves and Salford in promoting a model that fuels the reckless arms-race started by the EPL megamoney cascading downwards, which threatens the very existence of us all.

Anyone reading this who is of the same mind could do worse than follow the twitter timeline of Accrington's owner, the excellent Andy Holt and his warnings of where the financial madness will end if we're not careful.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1131527833925373954

"The death of the 72? Why football outside the Premier League is on its knees"

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport...two-championship-miguel-delaney-a8926126.html

Does this come with a bookmark? Sorry mate x

 

[Jabba the gut]

Is this really still going?

Is this really still going?

You're not helping!

 

[Jabba the gut]

We, like every club, have a few clowns but even 99% of them don't think we are a Premiership club... It looks to me as if you pay more attention to 1 or 2 slightly over egged opinions than that of our actual fan base.

It seems to be a fairly regular refrain on PASOTI and ATD, but I suppose forums are not the best barometer of fan opinion.

Do we feel a touch hard done by when you see teams from cities like: Norwich, Swansea, Bournemouth, Hull, Huddersfield, Preston, Burnley and yes Barnsley and Blackpool (the list goes on) having spells of success? Yes of course - most of them are geographically far smaller cities than Plymouth...

That's not actually true - many of those cities are in reality bigger and in some cases significantly bigger than Plymouth in terms of true population.

PAFC and ECFC fans are both guilty of common misconceptions about the relative sizes of our cities vis-a-vis the cities of a lot of our rival clubs and we often make frustrated and erroneous comparisons with clubs in other towns and cities as a result.

The big mistake our fans tend to make (along with civic leaders anxious to talk up the importance of our cities) is to make relatively meaningless comparisons of the number of people living inside municipal boundaries. In reality these are artificial lines on a map that haven't been updated for decades and which fail to consider the growth of conurbations, or "urban sprawl".

The true size of a settlement is far more accurately gauged by its area of continuously settled population. The UK ONS uses the Built-Up Area or Urban Area, but there are other measures that allow bigger gaps in settled land and give larger population figures like the Metropolitan Area.

As you know Devon & Cornwall are very sparsely populated and its cities have far less urban sprawl than most. In 15 minutes walk from my mother's house I am in the middle of the city and 10 minutes walk in the other direction puts me smack bang in the middle of picture postcard Devon countryside - even our city-centre ground is only a relatively short drive from fields of livestock and country woodland.

As a consequence the "official" population and the true population of the Urban Areas of Plymouth and Exeter are more or less the same. That is not true for many other places, so comparing only the former exaggerates our relative size.

It's a bit like me saying that Exeter is bigger than London, because the historic boundaries of the city walls have very few inhabitants and dismissing the fact that urban sprawl has consumed once-distinct settlements like Westminster and Southwark - or claiming parity with Portsmouth because the population excluding urban sprawl is not that much larger than Exeter's. However anybody who has walked or driven across the two will realise that is an absurd proposition.

The Urban Area of Plymouth is 260,000 and that of Exeter is 117,000. By contrast that of the Urban Areas you compared Plymouth with are;

Bournemouth 466,000, Hull 314,000, Preston 313,000, Swansea 300,000, Blackpool 239,000, Norwich 213'000 Barnsley 223,000, Burnley 149,000. Huddersfield is not a big place, but is part of the large West Yorkshire Urban Area of nearly 2 million with the likes of Leeds and Bradford.

So comparing the true size of the city populations puts Plymouth in fifth place on the list, not all that much larger than the three immediately below them. With all the huge barriers we have in terms of location and so on our relative lack of success is not all that surprising.

...and have way more teams in their locality competing for support and players...

But that is not necessarily a disadvantage in a situation where we are such an undesirable place to play football. It's actually much easier to attract players to areas where there are a lot of other clubs close by.

99% of players know they will be looking for a new job on an extremely regular basis and therefore working where there are lots of potential future employers nearby is highly desirable. If they have families they know there is that much less chance of having to be away from them or to move them regularly if they are in an accessible part of the country in one of the centres of their industry.

We also tend to oversimplify the comparison with competition for fans. There may be few pro clubs in Devon compared with other regions but that has been the case for 100 years or so for a reason. There are more football clubs in the North-West, the Midlands and London because they are far better and more sustainable places for a football club to exist and attract fans.

In a similar fashion there are fewer theatres competing for the best actors and biggest audiences in Devon than in London, not because there is massive untapped potential for audiences and world famous productions in the South-West, but because London is a far more viable place for a theatre to thrive.

Especially because we were on the brink of it before the administration days. Bound to leave a bitter taste in the mouth.

Are you referring to the Holloway/mid-noughties era? The closest you came was finishing just above mid-table behind Colchester - IIRC you were up there until around Christmas, but any number of clubs who failed to get promoted in all divisions could claim that. I don't think that is really being on the brink of the Premier League.

You lot have done it in the rugby, which I know is different, but it still proves that top athletes will come this far if the circumstances and setup are right.

No - it proves rugby union players will come, not footballers.

The geographical centres of the rugby union industry are almost the diametric opposite to those of the football. The South-West has always been more of a powerhouse rugby area than a football one and with the rise of professionalism is a highly desirable and credible region for a player to work in, whereas by contrast we are one of the most undesirable regions in professional football.

A number of former South-West managers have explicitly stated how much more difficult they found it to get good players to come to the region, so we should listen to what they have to say and not tell ourselves what we want to hear.