Club size in order

[Jabba the gut]

Well, compared to most in L2 those clubs are big. Oldham should be in there, too.

Well that's undoubtedly true. The problem is that Plymouth have a group of fans who insist they're big in absolute terms, not just relatively speaking. They argue they are a natural top-flight team and at least as big as say, Barnsley and Blackpool.

 

[SELatic]

7. Northampton
------------------------
8. Oldham

Also not having that

 

[shoddycollins]

I've always seen Oxford and Swindon as third tier clubs with the occasional foray into the Championship or L2, but their natural home is L1 afaic. A few other clubs that I will always view as L1 irrespective of their current position are Carlisle, P.Vale, Notts, Oldham, Walsall and Col U. I'm not sure where I stand on Bradford (CHP/L1), Crewe (L1/L2) and Plymouth(CHP/L1).

For the record
Top flight - 2nd -3rd -4th

Oxford 3-18-18-14
Swindon 1-19-64-7
Carlisle 1-15-40-26
Vale 0-41-43-21
Notts 30-37-35-18
Oldham 12-36-41-12
Walsall 0-15-71-9
Colchester 0-2-38-27

So all these clubs could be considered typical 3rd tier clubs, though Notts history is far more illustrious and if it weren't for that this is spread over a longer period than most of us and they haven't been much above the third tier for ages they could claim to be a better shout for 2nd tier, albeit with plenty of time spent in 1st and 3rd. Notts as a 4th tier club is a relatively new phenomenon.

Walsall have spent more time in the 3rd tier than anyone and have barely been outside it, while Oldham have the longest (recently broken) unbroken spell in the 3rd tier, they have at least enjoyed some decent 1st tier time. Swindon are broadly similar to Walsall though managed to enjoy a season in the sun.

Carlisle are similar to the above just with more time spent in the bottom tier at the expense of the 3rd tier.

Vale have spent the longest in the 2nd tier without making it to the first tier, but again this is all spread over a long spell and arguably 3rd tier best describes them now given they've amassed 21 seasons in the basement.

Oxford haven't been around long but have managed to spread themselves quite evenly across the bottom three divisions in that time with three years in the top flight to boot.

Finally Colchester (like Oxford) are fairly new at this 'football league' thing and unlike the other clubs here haven't had so much of a golden spell, but still shade it as a generally 3rd tier team.

Bradford (12-29-41-13) seem broadly similar to Oldham and whatever label you stick Oldham with should probably also apply to them. Ch/L1 doesn't seem all that incorrect though less Ch than Oldham. Though you didn't mention them, Grimsby (12-52-27-18) also crop up around here, but with Ch and L1 reversed, beneath that shit exterior lurks a giant who could give the likes of Crystal Palace a run for their money, if only they didn't spent 18 seasons in the 4th tier and *cough* 6, in the 5th. They really don't know where they belong, and when you type 'Grimsby' into Google, one of the suggested questions is 'is Grimsby a real place?'. Unfortunately... yes, it may seem like a story made up to scare kids into good behaviour but it is real enough. Is Cleethorpes a real place though? Well you'll just have to go and find out before they change their mind about what size of club they want to be again.

Plymouth (0-40-41-11) are second to Walsall when it comes to spending lots of time in the second flight without ever getting into the top. Definitely have a case for being historically Ch/L1 given the almost identical time spent in each.

Crewe (0-12-45-38) you also seem to be about right to call L1/L2

So what about the kind of tinpot outfits who have never even made it as high up as the second tier? Well we know the sort. Crawley, Stevenage, Morecambe, Exeter (0-0-47-40), FGR, Fleetwood. Barely even Football League clubs if you ask me.

TLDR: Devon is full of bottlers, Grimsby is a myth, Only one club from Staffordshire is allowed to be good at a time and some are still waiting their turn.

 

[shoddycollins]

Well that's undoubtedly true. The problem is that Plymouth have a group of fans who insist they're big in absolute terms, not just relatively speaking. They argue they are a natural top-flight team and at least as big as say, Barnsley and Blackpool.

I assume the World Cup bid went to their heads a little.

 

[Stringy]

It's a real cognitive effect. From Mansfield, Lincoln seem bloody massive compared to Carlisle. If you imagine a solar system and League Two clubs are planets, from Mansfield, Lincoln is a massive shining arse with Danny Cowley's face on it in the night sky. Carlisle is a little blue spec in the distance.

We also have Grimsby if you look up to the north east, and Notts County slightly to the south. Unfortunately, neither are emitting much light.

 

[shoddycollins]

It's a real cognitive effect. From Mansfield, Lincoln seem bloody massive compared to Carlisle. If you imagine a solar system and League Two clubs are planets, from Mansfield, Lincoln is a massive shining arse with Danny Cowley's face on it in the night sky. Carlisle is a little blue spec in the distance.

We also have Grimsby if you look up to the north east, and Notts County slightly to the south. Unfortunately, neither are emitting much light.

Please take this internet in recognition of your victory

 

[Myblueheaven04]

shoddycollins Very good post

Its very hard to for everybody to agree on such a debate. Things change over the years and younger fans don't remember certain teams having any success so only judge things on recent times.
In the prem UTD are by far the biggest team and that is not disputed, they have no real recent success but will still be deemed the biggest.
The rest of the prem would never agree on the rest, are Newcastle bigger than Liverpool ??

Last season was my first ever season at Div 4 level, I am 48 and the first half of my life was spent supporting a mainly Championship and Premier league team ( 3 Seasons ), FA Cup semi-finals and a League Cup Final, Attendances have been all over the place, 20k, 15k, 10k, 5/6k and now around 4 1/2k, the second half has been Div 3 apart from last season.

Metropolitan Borough of Oldham is around 240,000 and is a large town, Bradford is much larger but does not have 2 of the biggest teams in the world within 6 miles, Bradford do seem to keep a healthy following and that is great for them.

Carlisle is half the size of Oldham but has no competitors other than the healthy amount of glory hunting United and City followers living in Cumbria. Carlisle could get decent crowds I am sure.

Oldham have a great away support and if successful home crowds would improve.

Listen, we all have our own opinions and none of us will ever agree on who is bigger than who.
The Salford fan who started this thread will know his team is not in contention in terms of size, the City of Salford tho is big and has a population of around 250,000 so they have a possible chance of growth but there are so many teams within 45mins of them, they would have to be very successful, this might happen but they don't have the infrastructure in place for such a growth, a new or bigger ground would be needed.

I would say in terms of crowds Bradford are the biggest, followed by the likes of Plymouth, Tranmere, Swindon, Oldham.

In therms of success and history and fan bases it would be a similar group but maybe the order would be different.

At the end of the day we are are all in the lowest professional league in English football, to some of us this is a disaster and to others it is their level or even a success.

None of us can brag about who's bigger than who really, we are all pretty cr*p at the minute !!

 

[northstandexile]

For the record
Top flight - 2nd -3rd -4th

Oxford 3-18-18-14
Swindon 1-19-64-7
Carlisle 1-15-40-26
Vale 0-41-43-21
Notts 30-37-35-18
Oldham 12-36-41-12
Walsall 0-15-71-9
Colchester 0-2-38-27

So all these clubs could be considered typical 3rd tier clubs, though Notts history is far more illustrious and if it weren't for that this is spread over a longer period than most of us and they haven't been much above the third tier for ages they could claim to be a better shout for 2nd tier, albeit with plenty of time spent in 1st and 3rd. Notts as a 4th tier club is a relatively new phenomenon.

Walsall have spent more time in the 3rd tier than anyone and have barely been outside it, while Oldham have the longest (recently broken) unbroken spell in the 3rd tier, they have at least enjoyed some decent 1st tier time. Swindon are broadly similar to Walsall though managed to enjoy a season in the sun.

Carlisle are similar to the above just with more time spent in the bottom tier at the expense of the 3rd tier.

Vale have spent the longest in the 2nd tier without making it to the first tier, but again this is all spread over a long spell and arguably 3rd tier best describes them now given they've amassed 21 seasons in the basement.

Oxford haven't been around long but have managed to spread themselves quite evenly across the bottom three divisions in that time with three years in the top flight to boot.

Finally Colchester (like Oxford) are fairly new at this 'football league' thing and unlike the other clubs here haven't had so much of a golden spell, but still shade it as a generally 3rd tier team.

Bradford (12-29-41-13) seem broadly similar to Oldham and whatever label you stick Oldham with should probably also apply to them. Ch/L1 doesn't seem all that incorrect though less Ch than Oldham. Though you didn't mention them, Grimsby (12-52-27-18) also crop up around here, but with Ch and L1 reversed, beneath that shit exterior lurks a giant who could give the likes of Crystal Palace a run for their money, if only they didn't spent 18 seasons in the 4th tier and *cough* 6, in the 5th. They really don't know where they belong, and when you type 'Grimsby' into Google, one of the suggested questions is 'is Grimsby a real place?'. Unfortunately... yes, it may seem like a story made up to scare kids into good behaviour but it is real enough. Is Cleethorpes a real place though? Well you'll just have to go and find out before they change their mind about what size of club they want to be again.

Plymouth (0-40-41-11) are second to Walsall when it comes to spending lots of time in the second flight without ever getting into the top. Definitely have a case for being historically Ch/L1 given the almost identical time spent in each.

Crewe (0-12-45-38) you also seem to be about right to call L1/L2

So what about the kind of tinpot outfits who have never even made it as high up as the second tier? Well we know the sort. Crawley, Stevenage, Morecambe, Exeter (0-0-47-40), FGR, Fleetwood. Barely even Football League clubs if you ask me.

TLDR: Devon is full of bottlers, Grimsby is a myth, Only one club from Staffordshire is allowed to be good at a time and some are still waiting their turn.

The third tier numbers pre 1958 need to take into account if they finished top half or bottom half of 3N or 3S.
Bottom half finish should be actually be classed as a 4th tier finish.

 

[Enzo Scifo's Right Foot]

I’ve seen my club play in the top flight ! And they can never take that away from me .

So in essence I’ve seen the good , the bad and the now .

 

[Myblueheaven04]

I’ve seen my club play in the top flight ! And they can never take that away from me .

So in essence I’ve seen the good , the bad and the now .

I remember Notts County V Oldham being a premier league fixtutre, so I agree with you, they can never take that away from us.
Hope you get back soon, genuinely

 

[Enzo Scifo's Right Foot]

If the reported takeover takes much longer to complete then you can write off next season for the pies .

When it comes to Notts vs Oldham , three games spring to mind a midweek game at Boundary Park when we were both really good sides and Oldham were superb winning 5-2 . The last game of the season 1-1 draw with the Sheehan penalty in front of a packed away following on a day we could of been relegated just a few years ago and my favourite ... FA Cup 4th round as a kid . Believe we won 2-0 at home prior to beating Man City and then losing to Athens eventual winners Spurs in the Quarter Finals .

All those games seemed huge to me , I stood on corner of Iremonger Road with my old man and counted 40 ( Forty ) Oldham coaches pull round the corner . At the time I’d never seen anything like it .

Never get those days again but least we had them in the first place .

 

[Myblueheaven04]

If the reported takeover takes much longer to complete then you can write off next season for the pies .

When it comes to Notts vs Oldham , three games spring to mind a midweek game at Boundary Park when we were both really good sides and Oldham were superb winning 5-2 . The last game of the season 1-1 draw with the Sheehan penalty in front of a packed away following on a day we could of been relegated just a few years ago and my favourite ... FA Cup 4th round as a kid . Believe we won 2-0 at home prior to beating Man City and then losing to Athens eventual winners Spurs in the Quarter Finals .

All those games seemed huge to me , I stood on corner of Iremonger Road with my old man and counted 40 ( Forty ) Oldham coaches pull round the corner . At the time I’d never seen anything like it .

Never get those days again but least we had them in the first place .

Great memories and fantastic times, ups and downs, hopefully things will come around again one day, chin up !!

 

[E10rifle]

I'm going to have Oxford down for a 1.4ca.

Not sure historical tinpotters are allowed to have more than 0.5ca.

 

[shoddycollins]

I did some quick (computer wizardry involved) research last year into populations by driving time from clubs, and have this to share.

Obviously there are many many caveats. I'll list a few

• Drivetime zones can spill over into neighbouring towns and may overlap with other clubs. Particularly in high density conurbations, I'm sure the 2 million people living within 15 minutes of Brisbane Road aren't all Orient fans, while fifteen minutes from Valley Parade could get you into Leeds in ideal conditions*.
• Driving time isn't always the best measure of proximity. In London you're more likely to use public transport for example, and it can be irrelevant to many people how long it would take to drive somewhere.
• Driving times are measured by OpenStreetMap, and don't have the same level of clever algorithms as things like Google Maps. *It probably overestimates how fast you can actually drive in congested urban areas.
• Distances are measured from where the ground is. Look at Colchester for example, a paltry 4,000 people live within 5 minutes' drive of their stadium in the middle of nowhere.
• These take no account of cultural barriers such as the border between Lancashire and Yorkshire which probably do have an impact on which clubs someone might consider to be local.
• In many less densely populated areas the opposite is true and 15 minutes is too small a number to truly capture the club's support. I know many Carlisle fans, and a good proportion of ST holders, who drive over an hour to reach Brunton Park from West Cumbria, West Northumberland and South-west Scotland.

I have a map of them also, if you want to see how well the zones used correlate to what you might actually think as the club's catchment area.

South

North

 

[E10rifle]

7. Northampton
------------------------
8. Oldham
9. Leyton Orient

Northampton?! Pfft. Shouldn’t be above Orient, let alone Oldham.

 

[Pablosammy]

I did some quick (computer wizardry involved) research last year into populations by driving time from clubs, and have this to share.
View attachment 10999
Obviously there are many many caveats. I'll list a few

• Drivetime zones can spill over into neighbouring towns and may overlap with other clubs. Particularly in high density conurbations, I'm sure the 2 million people living within 15 minutes of Brisbane Road aren't all Orient fans, while fifteen minutes from Valley Parade could get you into Leeds in ideal conditions*.
• Driving time isn't always the best measure of proximity. In London you're more likely to use public transport for example, and it can be irrelevant to many people how long it would take to drive somewhere.
• Driving times are measured by OpenStreetMap, and don't have the same level of clever algorithms as things like Google Maps. *It probably overestimates how fast you can actually drive in congested urban areas.
• Distances are measured from where the ground is. Look at Colchester for example, a paltry 4,000 people live within 5 minutes' drive of their stadium in the middle of nowhere.
• These take no account of cultural barriers such as the border between Lancashire and Yorkshire which probably do have an impact on which clubs someone might consider to be local.
• In many less densely populated areas the opposite is true and 15 minutes is too small a number to truly capture the club's support. I know many Carlisle fans, and a good proportion of ST holders, who drive over an hour to reach Brunton Park from West Cumbria, West Northumberland and South-west Scotland.

I have a map of them also, if you want to see how well the zones used correlate to what you might actually think as the club's catchment area.

South
View attachment 11002

North
View attachment 11003

Top geekery, well done.

 

[Gladders]

For the record
Top flight - 2nd -3rd -4th

Oxford 3-18-18-14
Swindon 1-19-64-7
Carlisle 1-15-40-26
Vale 0-41-43-21
Notts 30-37-35-18
Oldham 12-36-41-12
Walsall 0-15-71-9
Colchester 0-2-38-27

So all these clubs could be considered typical 3rd tier clubs, though Notts history is far more illustrious and if it weren't for that this is spread over a longer period than most of us and they haven't been much above the third tier for ages they could claim to be a better shout for 2nd tier, albeit with plenty of time spent in 1st and 3rd. Notts as a 4th tier club is a relatively new phenomenon.

Walsall have spent more time in the 3rd tier than anyone and have barely been outside it, while Oldham have the longest (recently broken) unbroken spell in the 3rd tier, they have at least enjoyed some decent 1st tier time. Swindon are broadly similar to Walsall though managed to enjoy a season in the sun.

Carlisle are similar to the above just with more time spent in the bottom tier at the expense of the 3rd tier.

Vale have spent the longest in the 2nd tier without making it to the first tier, but again this is all spread over a long spell and arguably 3rd tier best describes them now given they've amassed 21 seasons in the basement.

Oxford haven't been around long but have managed to spread themselves quite evenly across the bottom three divisions in that time with three years in the top flight to boot.

Finally Colchester (like Oxford) are fairly new at this 'football league' thing and unlike the other clubs here haven't had so much of a golden spell, but still shade it as a generally 3rd tier team.

Bradford (12-29-41-13) seem broadly similar to Oldham and whatever label you stick Oldham with should probably also apply to them. Ch/L1 doesn't seem all that incorrect though less Ch than Oldham. Though you didn't mention them, Grimsby (12-52-27-18) also crop up around here, but with Ch and L1 reversed, beneath that shit exterior lurks a giant who could give the likes of Crystal Palace a run for their money, if only they didn't spent 18 seasons in the 4th tier and *cough* 6, in the 5th. They really don't know where they belong, and when you type 'Grimsby' into Google, one of the suggested questions is 'is Grimsby a real place?'. Unfortunately... yes, it may seem like a story made up to scare kids into good behaviour but it is real enough. Is Cleethorpes a real place though? Well you'll just have to go and find out before they change their mind about what size of club they want to be again.

Plymouth (0-40-41-11) are second to Walsall when it comes to spending lots of time in the second flight without ever getting into the top. Definitely have a case for being historically Ch/L1 given the almost identical time spent in each.

Crewe (0-12-45-38) you also seem to be about right to call L1/L2

So what about the kind of tinpot outfits who have never even made it as high up as the second tier? Well we know the sort. Crawley, Stevenage, Morecambe, Exeter (0-0-47-40), FGR, Fleetwood. Barely even Football League clubs if you ask me.

TLDR: Devon is full of bottlers, Grimsby is a myth, Only one club from Staffordshire is allowed to be good at a time and some are still waiting their turn.

Ours are 12-52-28-17.

And 8 of those 17 are this century all but one in the bottom half, plus another 6 outside the 92!! Fall from grace.

 

[shoddycollins]

The third tier numbers pre 1958 need to take into account if they finished top half or bottom half of 3N or 3S.
Bottom half finish should be actually be classed as a 4th tier finish.

hence why these figures are only post 58

They aren't my figures anyway.
My Football Facts & Stats | Football League | Club League History Summary

 

[shoddycollins]

Not sure historical tinpotters are allowed to have more than 0.5ca.

And it begins

 

[Stringy]

I did some quick (computer wizardry involved) research last year into populations by driving time from clubs, and have this to share.
View attachment 10999
Obviously there are many many caveats. I'll list a few

• Drivetime zones can spill over into neighbouring towns and may overlap with other clubs. Particularly in high density conurbations, I'm sure the 2 million people living within 15 minutes of Brisbane Road aren't all Orient fans, while fifteen minutes from Valley Parade could get you into Leeds in ideal conditions*.
• Driving time isn't always the best measure of proximity. In London you're more likely to use public transport for example, and it can be irrelevant to many people how long it would take to drive somewhere.
• Driving times are measured by OpenStreetMap, and don't have the same level of clever algorithms as things like Google Maps. *It probably overestimates how fast you can actually drive in congested urban areas.
• Distances are measured from where the ground is. Look at Colchester for example, a paltry 4,000 people live within 5 minutes' drive of their stadium in the middle of nowhere.
• These take no account of cultural barriers such as the border between Lancashire and Yorkshire which probably do have an impact on which clubs someone might consider to be local.
• In many less densely populated areas the opposite is true and 15 minutes is too small a number to truly capture the club's support. I know many Carlisle fans, and a good proportion of ST holders, who drive over an hour to reach Brunton Park from West Cumbria, West Northumberland and South-west Scotland.

I have a map of them also, if you want to see how well the zones used correlate to what you might actually think as the club's catchment area.

South
View attachment 11002

North
View attachment 11003

Some of them should just merge.

Oldham and Salford City.

Macclesfield, Crewe and Port Vale Albion.

 

[shoddycollins]

Some of them should just merge.

Oldham and Salford City.

Macclesfield, Crewe and Port Vale Albion.

Come on Macclesvale Alexandra!

 

[Deepcut Cobbler]

We've had one season in the top tier...
A Joe Mercer quote "The miracle of 1966 wasn't England winning the World Cup, it was Northampton playing in the First Division"

 

[shoddycollins]

shoddycollins Very good post

Its very hard to for everybody to agree on such a debate. Things change over the years and younger fans don't remember certain teams having any success so only judge things on recent times.
In the prem UTD are by far the biggest team and that is not disputed, they have no real recent success but will still be deemed the biggest.
The rest of the prem would never agree on the rest, are Newcastle bigger than Liverpool ??

Last season was my first ever season at Div 4 level, I am 48 and the first half of my life was spent supporting a mainly Championship and Premier league team ( 3 Seasons ), FA Cup semi-finals and a League Cup Final, Attendances have been all over the place, 20k, 15k, 10k, 5/6k and now around 4 1/2k, the second half has been Div 3 apart from last season.

Metropolitan Borough of Oldham is around 240,000 and is a large town, Bradford is much larger but does not have 2 of the biggest teams in the world within 6 miles, Bradford do seem to keep a healthy following and that is great for them.

Carlisle is half the size of Oldham but has no competitors other than the healthy amount of glory hunting United and City followers living in Cumbria. Carlisle could get decent crowds I am sure.

Oldham have a great away support and if successful home crowds would improve.

Listen, we all have our own opinions and none of us will ever agree on who is bigger than who.
The Salford fan who started this thread will know his team is not in contention in terms of size, the City of Salford tho is big and has a population of around 250,000 so they have a possible chance of growth but there are so many teams within 45mins of them, they would have to be very successful, this might happen but they don't have the infrastructure in place for such a growth, a new or bigger ground would be needed.

I would say in terms of crowds Bradford are the biggest, followed by the likes of Plymouth, Tranmere, Swindon, Oldham.

In therms of success and history and fan bases it would be a similar group but maybe the order would be different.

At the end of the day we are are all in the lowest professional league in English football, to some of us this is a disaster and to others it is their level or even a success.

None of us can brag about who's bigger than who really, we are all pretty cr*p at the minute !!

When I was at school, it coincided with the Keegan era at Newcastle, and Newcastle being the nearest Prem team to Cumbria, they were the ones who challenged ManU most in terms of fan numbers in the playground. Must have only been two or three years that they they up there, and only one where they seriously challenged for the title from with my limited experience as a football fan and teenage perspective of how long time lasted, I would definitely have imagined them to be the second biggest team in the country ahead of anyone like Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea or Man City. It seemed like ManU had won the title for as far back as anyone could remember, then Blackburn briefly interrupted that, but ManU v Newcastle was the eternal title struggle. I would probably have been surprised if you'd told me one day ManU would go more than a single season without winning the title, I just presumed they would always win it every season for the rest of time punctuated only by the odd occasion when Alan Shearer would win it.

People brought up in the 80s would have felt differently. They may not even have thought of ManU as a big team like we did. More a 'we used to be massive' team like Everton, or Man City as they were. Man City now though, kids will be growing up now thinking that every title challenge past, present and future will be Man City v Liverpool, though Liverpool will never win it, Chelsea occasionally do.

 

[Reginald Fodstain]

Shoddy does some top quality procrastination every summer, long may it continue!

 

[shoddycollins]

We've had one season in the top tier...
A Joe Mercer quote "The miracle of 1966 wasn't England winning the World Cup, it was Northampton playing in the First Division"

Bill Shankly described our promotion to the first division as 'the greatest feat in the history of the game', sadly he never lived to see Salford get promoted into the football league.

Stick that in your Joe Mercer and smoke it.

Three games into the season we were W3 D0 L0 and were top. We also did the double over Spurs and Everton and beat eventual champions Derby.

 

[valefan16]

Bradford the biggest all be it not as big as some think due to the ticket pricing (which is decent).

Plymouth second I would say.

Then you have that tier of clubs like Vale, Swindon, Tranmere and Oldham all fairly similar possibly Tranmere just ahead.

Never really seen Carlisle as bigger than us or as big, often seemed to be league two strugglers regularly as I was growing up probably just below that tier with Northampton and Orient.

Then the next tier with the likes of Crewe, Mansfield, Exeter, Walsall and Colchester.

Then your bigger non league traditional sides like Cheltenham, Macc and Newport.

Then your smaller clubs like Crawley, FGR down to the smallest in Morecambe (often struggle for 1000 home fans) and the smallest Salford.

All subjective though and totally irrelevant to performance on the field in the current time. The smallest is probably the favourite to win it next year!

 

[RLC]

Also not having that

Yes, I see Oldham as being one of the biggest current League Two clubs. They spent a lot of time in the second tier, even before the boom years under Royle.

I always think they are a slightly bigger club than us, although behind us in many respects at the moment.

 

[Trapdoor]

Just a bunch of jealous little Pikeys who use our name to signify some form of relevance.....sad really

Yeah, you're right. We are just jealous of your beautiful cathedral, your international airport and historic city centre.
I cry myself to sleep at night because Exeter doesn't have such fascinating cultural attractions as the decrepit dockyard, derriford STI clinic and all-you-can-drink-for-£10 bars on union street. #shithole

 

[WilsdenBantam]

Although meaningless, I do find this kind of thread interesting and not just because it's the only thing we'll be top of most likely.

There are many things to take into account, I won't list them all as I'm knackered and should be asleep.

But I'll stick with two. Firstly history, always am interesting one and bragging rights amongst fans. If we pretend it's 1921, we're bigger than Leeds and Huddersfield. At this time we'd won the FA Cup and division 2 title, were as the other 2 had won nothing and I believe Leeds were non league as they were a new club. However, and I know many clubs not just us have suffered this, circumstance and bad miss management of the club regressed it, from being the power house in West Yorkshire, to well the tin pot merchants. In our pomp we could get crowds of 25-30,000 and I'm sure the tickets were more inline with other clubs. We also were a 2 club City and the Bradford derby could fetch 30,000 plus both Bradford clubs were top flight before Leeds had chance to even avoid tax and recreate themselves. The decline of the City hasn't helped, it was the wool capital of the world and Manningham where the stadium is was one of the most expensive places to live in the city. Fast forward and both the city and Manningham are dumps with little money in them to pay the bills let alone a luxury like football. The club has had crap owner after crap owner, and that and the Cities fall from grace are the main reasons from why we are shit.

Finally population of the city, from the outside people will say Bradford's a city with a huge population it should be able to have a team which gets 30,000 no problem if places like Wolves can. I'm not meaning this to sound like a UKIP rally or whatever crap Farage is involved with now, but our high Asian and Eastern European population has to be taken into account. Our figures at football games are something like 95% white British. Very few recent immigrants or even 2nd and 3rd generation Pakistani, Indian and Bangladeshi attend football matches. So when you look at our white British population and take into account the ethnic percentage of attendants you start to see there's actually a far smaller pool of people who are likely to attend, unlike say a similar size city in Bristol.

 

[shoddycollins]

Although meaningless, I do find this kind of thread interesting and not just because it's the only thing we'll be top of most likely.

There are many things to take into account, I won't list them all as I'm knackered and should be asleep.

But I'll stick with two. Firstly history, always am interesting one and bragging rights amongst fans. If we pretend it's 1921, we're bigger than Leeds and Huddersfield. At this time we'd won the FA Cup and division 2 title, were as the other 2 had won nothing and I believe Leeds were non league as they were a new club. However, and I know many clubs not just us have suffered this, circumstance and bad miss management of the club regressed it, from being the power house in West Yorkshire, to well the tin pot merchants. In our pomp we could get crowds of 25-30,000 and I'm sure the tickets were more inline with other clubs. We also were a 2 club City and the Bradford derby could fetch 30,000 plus both Bradford clubs were top flight before Leeds had chance to even avoid tax and recreate themselves. The decline of the City hasn't helped, it was the wool capital of the world and Manningham where the stadium is was one of the most expensive places to live in the city. Fast forward and both the city and Manningham are dumps with little money in them to pay the bills let alone a luxury like football. The club has had crap owner after crap owner, and that and the Cities fall from grace are the main reasons from why we are shit.

Finally population of the city, from the outside people will say Bradford's a city with a huge population it should be able to have a team which gets 30,000 no problem if places like Wolves can. I'm not meaning this to sound like a UKIP rally or whatever crap Farage is involved with now, but our high Asian and Eastern European population has to be taken into account. Our figures at football games are something like 95% white British. Very few recent immigrants or even 2nd and 3rd generation Pakistani, Indian and Bangladeshi attend football matches. So when you look at our white British population and take into account the ethnic percentage of attendants you start to see there's actually a far smaller pool of people who are likely to attend, unlike say a similar size city in Bristol.

And that's even without factoring in the pull of the egg-chasers.