England squad..

[mistermagic]

This squad's alright.

 

[St. Juste]

An interesting way to consider the direction in which national teams are going is to consider previous squads and how many of the current squad would get in. Consider the 2006 World Cup (the last time England did quite well). How many of the current crop would make it into the below?

Robinson (Tottenham), James (Manchester City), Green (Norwich); G Neville (Manchester United), Ferdinand (Manchester United), Terry (Chelsea), Cole (Arsenal), Campbell (Arsenal), Carragher (Liverpool), Bridge (Chelsea), Beckham (Real Madrid), Carrick (Tottenham), Lampard (Chelsea), Gerrard (Liverpool), Hargreaves (Bayern Munich), Jenas (Tottenham), Downing (Middlesbrough), J Cole (Chelsea), Lennon (Tottenham), Rooney (Manchester United), Owen (Newcastle), Crouch (Liverpool), Walcott (Arsenal).

Kane, definitely. The 6 goalkeepers are uniquely awful and interchangeable.

The rest? Maybe Sterling in for Lennon or Downing and Alli in for Jenas, even if slightly different positions. It's a pretty comprehensive picture of decline, on the whole.

As for squad itself, I agree they have missed out on using Mee Tarkowski and Pope - like they did with the Arsenal defence years ago.

Centre back and central midfield are particularly poor.

Reaching the Quarter Final again would be an incredible achievement with that group of players.

 

[SF_]

Maybe Sterling and Alli would get in ahead of Lennon and Downing?...



Apart from that, yeah, don't think anyone is under any illusions that this is a weak squad on paper, yet they would struggle to do worse than our last few tournaments.

I'm hoping someone like Loftus-Cheek can have a Hargreaves-esque tournament.

2006 was a good squad looking back.

 

[Carver]

Err why the hell do we need 3 left backs/wingbacks and only 2 central midfielders???

Not taking Jack Wilshire is going to be a huge mistake and will end up costing us as there is not much creativity in there.

Is he taking Fabian Delph as a midfielder? He has hardly played for England and only plays as a leftback for Man City.

What a fuckwit Southgate is. I'm surprised his lovechild Jake Livermore is only back up lol.

 

[Abertawe]

Really don't think there's much gulf in the keepers - I'd rate the current lads as a bit better if anything although they're lacking experience.

That old defence is laughably good - there is no comparison.

The midfield & forward line wasn't all that. Jenas, Downing, Cole, Lennon, Walcott and that version of Owen.

Current lads like RLC, Lingard, Rashford, Alli, Vardy all have merits that could be reasonably used in an argument for being better. Overall the squad isn't dramatically worse but the defence is a concern which is why I find it mad they didn't play it safe by picking the Burnley trio - there's enough talent up top to score goals by just playing basic & safe at the back. Southgate thinking he's Guardiola will be their undoing imo.

 

[St. Juste]

Really don't think there's much gulf in the keepers - I'd rate the current lads as a bit better if anything although they're lacking experience.

That old defence is laughably good - there is no comparison.

The midfield & forward line wasn't all that. Jenas, Downing, Cole, Lennon, Walcott and that version of Owen.

Current lads like RLC, Lingard, Rashford, Alli, Vardy all have merits that could be reasonably used in an argument for being better. Overall the squad isn't dramatically worse but the defence is a concern which is why I find it mad they didn't play it safe by picking the Burnley trio - there's enough talent up top to score goals by just playing basic & safe at the back. Southgate thinking he's Guardiola will be their undoing imo.

This was when Joe Cole was good (he did well in the tournament too), he had better pedigree than any of those mentioned above. His career nose dived at the end, but there's no doubt he was better in 2006 than any of those players. Alli gets marked down due to a bad season, the rest are far off.

Lennon and Walcott were exciting fast wingers at the time but neither amounted to much. RLC and Rashford could easily go the way of them.

Lingard is a 25 year old who has had one good season. He could certainly do a David Bentley.

I don't think anyone would think current Vardy is better than 2006 Owen.

Was Jenas ever any good? I can't remember, not the most memorable player.

 

[HarvSFC]

Lennon and Walcott were exciting fast wingers at the time but neither amounted to much.

2006 Walcott was a striker, who had only played in the Championship for Southampton. (Was exciting though, and could have been the perfect Owen replacement)

 

[The Paranoid Pineapple]

Think his auto-troll function is playing up, hence the reference to six goalkeepers being "uniquely awful".

 

[Jockney]

An interesting way to consider the direction in which national teams are going is to consider previous squads and how many of the current squad would get in. Consider the 2006 World Cup (the last time England did quite well). How many of the current crop would make it into the below?

Robinson (Tottenham), James (Manchester City), Green (Norwich); G Neville (Manchester United), Ferdinand (Manchester United), Terry (Chelsea), Cole (Arsenal), Campbell (Arsenal), Carragher (Liverpool), Bridge (Chelsea), Beckham (Real Madrid), Carrick (Tottenham), Lampard (Chelsea), Gerrard (Liverpool), Hargreaves (Bayern Munich), Jenas (Tottenham), Downing (Middlesbrough), J Cole (Chelsea), Lennon (Tottenham), Rooney (Manchester United), Owen (Newcastle), Crouch (Liverpool), Walcott (Arsenal).

Kane, definitely. The 6 goalkeepers are uniquely awful and interchangeable.

The rest? Maybe Sterling in for Lennon or Downing and Alli in for Jenas, even if slightly different positions. It's a pretty comprehensive picture of decline, on the whole.

As for squad itself, I agree they have missed out on using Mee Tarkowski and Pope - like they did with the Arsenal defence years ago.

Centre back and central midfield are particularly poor.

Reaching the Quarter Final again would be an incredible achievement with that group of players.

An interesting way to consider this England squad would be to consider it on its own merits, or else not imply historical causation by diagnosing linear regression to a process that obviously runs in cycles -- cyclical not just for England but for every national side on the planet.

 

[Jockney]

2006 was a good squad looking back.

We were uncreative and largely dull to watch, though. Beckham aside, I would honestly prefer a far less talented side with more positive intent (hopefully this current squad).

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

And ten years ago we couldn't even qualify for the Euros.

 

[SF_]

We were uncreative and largely dull to watch, though. Beckham aside, I would honestly prefer a far less talented side with more positive intent (hopefully this current squad).

Yeah, I'm talking on paper, as a unit they bored everyone shitless.

 

[Super_horns]

Jack Wilshere not happy as you might expect .

Meanwhile we talk about a lack of depth in the England squad and it's shown up by some of the players France have left out!

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/sport/amp/football/44163250

 

[The Paranoid Pineapple]

We were uncreative and largely dull to watch, though. Beckham aside, I would honestly prefer a far less talented side with more positive intent (hopefully this current squad).

Yeah, very much so. We were an exceptionally dull, stodgy side.

And I think if England have learned anything over the years it's that having some outstanding individuals in your ranks doesn't necessarily translate to having a very good football team. Even if this side has more glaring deficiencies (and it very much does - we'd kill for those 06 CM options these days) I actually think we have better flair players atm which at least makes us a bit more watchable.

 

[SF_]

With these players i'm all for kick and rush football.

Try our best to soak up pressure with the lumps we have in defence and then get the ball forward as quickly as possible to make use of Sterling, Vardy, Alli, Lingard. Pace is our only real weapon.

Do we have a decent corner taker in this tournament?

 

[Abertawe]

This was when Joe Cole was good (he did well in the tournament too), he had better pedigree than any of those mentioned above. His career nose dived at the end, but there's no doubt he was better in 2006 than any of those players. Alli gets marked down due to a bad season, the rest are far off.

Lennon and Walcott were exciting fast wingers at the time but neither amounted to much. RLC and Rashford could easily go the way of them.

Lingard is a 25 year old who has had one good season. He could certainly do a David Bentley.

I don't think anyone would think current Vardy is better than 2006 Owen.

Was Jenas ever any good? I can't remember, not the most memorable player.

Joe Cole was never good mate - he was one of those fancy pants players that get hyped up in the media and bigged up by hipsters.

You don't think anyone would rank current Vardy over the 2006 WC edition of Owen? Really?? The same Micheal Owen that went to the world cup having played half a game since breaking his foot just after christmas??

Read his own words;

"If you look at my time at Newcastle, the problems started when Paul Robinson landed on my foot against Tottenham just after Christmas," Owen said.
"Loads of people get metatarsal injuries, but they are normally not as bad as mine. Nobody's foot would not have broken in that situation.
"I've then rushed my preparations for the World Cup. I played half-a-game for Newcastle. After being in plaster for so long my leg was de-conditioned and with hindsight, I should never have gone to Germany with England."

Tbh I've got to completely disagree with you - I don't think anyone of sound mind would rate 2006 Owen over current just scored 20 goals in the PL Vardy - not even Micheal Owen himself.

Walcott is crap - it doesn't matter if he was hyped at the time he's plain garbage. Rashford already has proven himself better than him even if he has had a quiet season.

RLC isn't a winger so not great to compare him to TW & Lennon. It's more fitting to compare him to Jenas is anything.

I did/do rate Lennon but he was never fancied or coached to be better than he ended up being. He had real potential but if were being objective he simply never did things on the pitch that Lingard & Rashford are already doing.

I'm not lIngards biggest fan - seems a right weapon - but he's puling off technique at the highest level with enough consistency to have his talent speak for itself. Comparison with Bentley is odd - his moment in the sun happened when he was quite young - by 25 he'd fallen to shit and went on to score just one goal for the rest of his career (I'm not making that up - he never scored after 25 years of age apart from one fluky off the keeper effort in a 9-1 victory for Spurs) Saying Lingard could do a Bentley just doesn't make sense - their career trajectories are very different.

In short I think you're typing a load of cobblers.

 

[Benji]

A lot of people are giving Jack Wilshere crap about what he said, but surely it would be more disappointing if he himself didn't think he should be in the squad.

 

[JJ1532]

I find it hilarious that because Southgate picked a mostly fair squad with very few controversial choices, people are trying to find drama by making out Wilshere is suddenly this must have player. Same with Joe Hart. Yet had Hart let in a soft goal or Wilshere got injured 5 minutes into the opening game, people would have criticised Southgate for picking them.

We will not miss either player. My concern is that Southgate is trying this 3 at the back system and I don't know why. Given most club teams play a 4, trying a 3 has me worried. But then, wing backs against Tunisia and Panama should hopefully give us width and allow us to stretch their defences.

Looking at the match ups though, it'll either be Brazil or Germany in the quarters should we make it that far. Great.

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

There have been people calling for Wilshere to be included for a long time, it's nothing new.

 

[Abertawe]

the dweebs always cite his creativity as a reason for his must selection. do the dweebs invent a narrative in their head of what a player is regardless of the actual reality because the much adored jack wilshere creativity yields 6 assists a season if you're lucky.

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

The last time he had a decent run in the team he put in about 5 MOTM performances in a row. He's the best CM we have, though misusing the our best CM is nothing new for England.