European Union Referendum

[mowgli]

I was living in Ireland when they had a 2 referendums - 1 to ratify the Lisbon Treaty the other the Nice Treaty. On both occasions the Irish voters rejected them.

In the fine tradition of EU democracy they demanded further referendums on both treaties until the desired outcome was achieved.

Fuck the EU and fuck politicians of whatever hue.

I had my honeymoon in Ireland in 2002 which was 6 months after thet were forced to have the euro,not one local i spoke to said it was beneficial every one of them complained that prices of essential goods like food and petrol shot up overnight,a pint went up by a quid as well but at least the democratic EU got their own way to the detriment of the population of Ireland as that's all they want and sod the citizens of a country who were ordered to toe the Eu line or have their subsidies cut,democracy my arse!

 

[Indian Dan]

I think Ireland is a great thing to bring up - what do you reckon? Hard border/soft border?

No border. One island.

 

[Indian Dan]

The swing to change the result is only 2%. So if there has been a shift towards remaining that is big enough to be noticeable, then it’s likely to be a majority opinion now.

Especially with even May (trying very hard not to, but realistically) admitting that it was influenced by a hostile foreign power.

Nobody knows if there is any swing at all - same as when these pollsters get it wrong in a General Election. Rerunning a referendum because someone with an agenda says there is a shift in opinion is a very slippery slope

 

[smat]

No border. One island.

A united Ireland?

 

[Indian Dan]

I lived there for over 10 years in a small, rural community and I loved every minute of it. The people are the most friendly and welcoming and there is something about the Irish persona that just needs to be one.

This isn’t a political point of view, just a how people should live view. But, yet again, religion rears it’s ugly head.

Will it ever happen? Doubt it.

 

[Laker]

I like the idea of guessing how public feeling has changed and then making decisions on the basis of that guess.

I live in a remain constituency surrounded by many leave constituencies - I know lots of leave voters. Not one wants to revoke the decision to leave. On the other hand I know quite a few remain voters who would now vote leave and those who wouldn't change their vote don't want us to go back and vote again.

So my take is that it appears to be something of a "remain strategy" to suggest public opinion has changed in order to have another referendum.

 

[smat]

I lived there for over 10 years in a small, rural community and I loved every minute of it. The people are the most friendly and welcoming and there is something about the Irish persona that just needs to be one.

This isn’t a political point of view, just a how people should live view. But, yet again, religion rears it’s ugly head.

Will it ever happen? Doubt it.

Okay, putting aside the fact that polling indicates a massive majority in NI for staying part of the UK... You say it'll never happen, so what do you think realistically should happen to Ireland after Brexit? You're a Brexit believer, I want to know what sort of future you people see happening as a result of the vote.

 

[Martino Quackavelli]

Okay, putting aside the fact that polling indicates a massive majority in NI for staying part of the UK... You say it'll never happen, so what do you think realistically should happen to Ireland after Brexit? You're a Brexit believer, I want to know what sort of future you people see happening as a result of the vote.

The official answer these days seems to be a mumbled 'errr technology?' What this technology is I'd love to know.

 

[Aber gas]

I lived there for over 10 years in a small, rural community and I loved every minute of it. The people are the most friendly and welcoming and there is something about the Irish persona that just needs to be one.

This isn’t a political point of view, just a how people should live view. But, yet again, religion rears it’s ugly head.

Will it ever happen? Doubt it.

I very much agree with you. Which is worrying.

 

[Aber gas]

 

[Indian Dan]

I very much agree with you. Which is worrying.

When you ‘live’ something from the inside rather than your perception from the outside you get clarity.

As for what I think should happen post Brexit, I have no idea. That is politics - my views are personal. Whilst there is a majority in the north of Ireland wishing to remain part of the UK that will be the status quo.

Again, a personal belief is that all 4 nations should be independent.

 

[smat]

When you ‘live’ something from the inside rather than your perception from the outside you get clarity.

I really don't think your limited experience gives you greater clarity than actual Northern Irish people.

As for what I think should happen post Brexit, I have no idea. That is politics - my views are personal.

Incredible.

 

[Indian Dan]

I really don't think your limited experience gives you greater clarity than actual Northern Irish people.


Incredible.

Maybe so. But it is better than your no experience. The clarity bit is my personal clarity on the subject. Not claiming it is anyone else's. Anyway I didn't live in the north of Ireland, I lived in the south.

And what's incredible about not knowing what to do about it? Nobody does - apart from you, I suspect

 

[smat]

Maybe so. But it is better than your no experience. The clarity bit is my personal clarity on the subject. Not claiming it is anyone else's. Anyway I didn't live in the north of Ireland, I lived in the south.

Yeah except I'm not pontificating about dividing up entire nations.

And what's incredible about not knowing what to do about it? Nobody does - apart from you, I suspect

No, I don't know. I don't think there is a solution. A soft, unchanged border would mean we don't leave the customs union and internal market, which is apparently "not Brexit" and would preclude us from doing Liam Fox's incredibly easy trade deals with the rest of the world. A hard border would have implications for the Good Friday Agreement, cause life-changing problems for people who live and work with families and friends either side of that border, and in any case has been ruled out already by both the UK and the EU. A hard border between Northern Ireland and the UK mainland would be equally distressing for unionists, who in the DUP, are actually propping up the government at the moment. As Ian said above, people like David Davis just saying "technology" and "technological solutions" over and over again isn't good enough.

Almost like the whole thing an unworkable idea that over 65s with pathetic delusions about their own country have lumbered the rest of the country with.

 

[Indian Dan]

Perhaps we’re worried about handing it over to patronising, condescending pricks.

 

[Abertawe]

Perhaps we’re worried about handing it over to patronising, condescending pricks.

Why you being a pleb? Fake boy.

 

[Indian Dan]

Wtf are you on about. I honestly have no idea what this fake stuff you’ve decided to lumber me with is about.

Either explain what you mean or shut tf up

 

[Abertawe]

The clue is in the name. Brexit is a British issue for British people.

 

[smat]

Perhaps we’re worried about handing it over to patronising, condescending pricks.

Lol no snowflake, you don't get to be talked to like an adult, because you've just washed your hands of the real problems you voted for. You could have engaged your brain and answered the question but instead you said "no one knows", as if that's an answer. The truth is you don't care!

 

[Laker]

The most logical and practical solution would be to have no border in Ireland but a border between there and the rest of the U.K. But as the DUP is involved, that won't happen. The alternative is a tangible border between the North and the Republic and that would obviously be a massive step backwards.

 

[Aber gas]

Ever felt like you were lied to Grimsby?
https://twitter.com/channel4news/status/931182275437432833

 

[smat]

Ever felt like you were lied to Grimsby?
https://twitter.com/channel4news/status/931182275437432833

Analysis of Brexit and fishing here: http://neweconomics.org/2017/11/brexit-poses-severe-threat-britains-fishing-communities/

 

[smat]

Irish border update, your lad the Taoiseach has weighed in:

Varadkar suggested he would block any progress to negotiations about the future relationship with the EU unless the UK was prepared to take a hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic, in any form, off the table.

“We’ve been given assurances that there will be no hard border in Ireland, that there won’t be any physical infrastructure, that we won’t go back to the borders of the past,” Varadkar said. “We want that written down in practical terms in the conclusions of phase one.”

The taoiseach was scathing about UK politicians who he said had backed Brexit without real thought to the consequences of leaving. “It’s 18 months since the referendum. It’s 10 years since people who wanted a referendum started agitating for one,” he said. “Sometimes it doesn’t seem like they have thought all this through.

“Britain having unilaterally taken the customs union and single market off the table, before we move to phase two talks on trade we want taken off the table any suggestion that there will be a physical border, a hard border, new barriers to trade on the island of Ireland.”

 

[Gladders]

Ever felt like you were lied to Grimsby?
https://twitter.com/channel4news/status/931182275437432833

No

 

[Abertawe]

Remainer's said this wouldn't happen. Turns out like a lot of things they were wrong. A very scary prospect indeed. https://euobserver.com/foreign/139854

 

[JaseTheVillain]

Remainer's said this wouldn't happen. Turns out like a lot of things they were wrong. A very scary prospect indeed. https://euobserver.com/foreign/139854

Yay. More money being spent on new ways to kill each other. Woo humanity! 'Defence' my arse.

 

[silkyman]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5100021/City-firms-NOT-special-Brexit-deal-Barnier-says.html

 

[smat]

Remainer's said this wouldn't happen. Turns out like a lot of things they were wrong. A very scary prospect indeed. https://euobserver.com/foreign/139854

a) it would be better if we had some influence on this sort of business
b) if there is a big super scary EU mega-army then it is maybe not good that our tinpot little independent UK force is going to be right next to it

 

[Abertawe]

a) it would be better if we had some influence on this sort of business
b) if there is a big super scary EU mega-army then it is maybe not good that our tinpot little independent UK force is going to be right next to it

b) is such a shithouse thing to say. Us real men and nerd scientists would prevent that from ever happening allowing you to carry on with your privileged life don't you worry.

 

[JaseTheVillain]

b) if there is a big super scary EU mega-army then it is maybe not good that our tinpot little independent UK force is going to be right next to it

Well we've already been there and done that twice...