Explosion at Manchester Arena

[.V.]

Fair comment V. I don't pretend to know the answer, not at all. I would rather do something than nothing though. I can't believe that other people didn't know what he was up to, be they relatives, friends or associates. Regardless of race or religion, I do feel that any potential solution has to involve everyone so that those that did know would be more comfortable coming forward. Maybe I've put it across badly, I don't know.

I don't know the answer either. Totally agree that a potential solution has to include everyone.

 

[Laker]

Could we make them wear a special symbol on their clothes, maybe? And live in special areas with walls around them?
Presumably you will ban CoE faith schools? And what about Roman Catholic schools?
How do you ban Muslims entering a country? Some kind of crude 'test'?

You are actually doing what the terrorists want: marginalising and isolating the Muslim community, much the same way many on the right wanted to marginalise and isolate the Irish community in the 1970s for the IRA atrocities.

I'd ban all religion frankly. I'm Oliver Cromwell. There.

 

[The Eyes of Self Actual]

That'll stop people born in this country.

Good call. Well done.

It's a start though. It's something. People want something to be done. Controlling our borders is a start. Then we deal with the extremists here. Perhaps if you get on the list you go to jail for a decade instead of being allowed to be free to plot?

I'm just suggesting ideas that may help I don't have the answer for that one. Bit by bit as long as it takes there can be things done to help

The media, left and politicians only want one thing. To do nothing and carry on as usual. That's it. Show our strength by doing stuff we have to do to survive - go to work, buy food, etc... "so strong, so resilient". Comical so many fall for it - no one’s doing anything!!

So far every (I think) attack in this country has been perpetrated by someone born in the UK, and one from Jamaica.

'BAN ALL MUSLIMS' is nothing but racism.

You do know Islam isn't a race, right?

The guy who left the bomb on the train in London recently was a White dude. There are many different races following Islam.

Catholicism isn’t a race - you get that right?

 

[HertsWolf]

It's a start though. It's something. People want something to be done. Controlling our borders is a start. Then we deal with the extremists here. Perhaps if you get on the list you go to jail for a decade instead of being allowed to be free to plot?

Control them how? Let who in? Or out? Then 'deal' with them? How do you do that?We do control our borders. Why do you think there are camps in Calais and some other Channel ports, if we weren't?

The media, left and politicians only want one thing. To do nothing and carry on as usual. That's it. Show our strength by doing stuff we have to do to survive - go to work, buy food, etc... "so strong, so resilient". Comical so many fall for it - no one’s doing anything!!

The 'media, left and politicians' is just lazy shite. No one whats to "carry on as usual". Everyone knows we need solutions to a multitude of modern-day problems. But the solutions to many of these problems are complex and nuanced and not easy to implement. Sound-bite crap works a treat in internet forums but it is remarkably difficult to translate into reality.
It may shock you to realise that we haven't had a 'left' government for seven years, yet - quite incredibly, seeing it's the 'left's problem' - the problem's still here.

Oh, and Cromwell didn't ban religion. He banned certain Christian festivals because he felt they were wasteful.

 

[smat]

You do know Islam isn't a race, right?

Catholicism isn’t a race - you get that right?

You talk like you instantly forget everything you've just said.

But that's democracy, UK style!

 

[Bobbin']

Maybe we should go back a 100 years, ship back any non-British Muslim with terrorist sympathies to their homeland and intern the rest, have them move away from major cities and deny them mobile phones and internet access.

Obviously not entirely serious, but something really does need to be done. I really don't know what though.

 

[TheMinsterman]

Anybody seriously advocating for mass faith based deportations (and I don't just mean as a result of exasperated desperation as a reaction to these barbaric attacks) is essentially saying they just want to push the problem somewhere else where they don't feel as much emotional attachment to the victims of terrorism so they can just ignore it and I completely stand by that comment.

You can't champion the "superiority" of western ideals whilst in the same breath advocating essentially tossing them in the trash.

 

[markwwfc1992]

Surveillance is key here I think. Whichever government is in number 10 in a months time has to invest more on security, and surveying potential terrorists who are on our 'watch list'.

Forget who mentioned it, but I think there must be a huge responsibility on muslims (and anyone else in the given situation) to cooperate with with the authorities if they feel they know somebody who could end up commiting an attack like this.

 

[blademan89]

Surveillance is key here I think. Whichever government is in number 10 in a months time has to invest more on security, and surveying potential terrorists who are on our 'watch list'.

Forget who mentioned it, but I think there must be a huge responsability on muslims (and anyone else in the given situation) to cooperate with with the authorities if they feel they know somebody who could end up commiting an attack like this.

Use the millions we spend on foreign aid to cover this. Look after our own before other countries.

 

[Bobbin']

Surveillance is key here I think. Whichever government is in number 10 in a months time has to invest more on security, and surveying potential terrorists who are on our 'watch list'.

Forget who mentioned it, but I think there must be a huge responsibility on muslims (and anyone else in the given situation) to cooperate with with the authorities if they feel they know somebody who could end up commiting an attack like this.

Not a chance that a Corbyn government will invest in any form of defence for this country.

 

[Blitzballer]

Use the millions we spend on foreign aid to cover this. Look after our own before other countries.

Fully agree.
We spunk something like 12 million a year in foreign aid to some countries with space programmes . Seriously couldn't make this shit up

 

[Smudge]

Wether there born here or not they are muslims that's a fact. I could be born in fucking new Zealand id still be English just as they are still from whatever Muslim country they originate. I knew it wouldn't be long before the standard racist comment got aimed my way. Absolute fucking joke some people

No. You would be a New Zealander if you were born in New Zealand. Muslim is a religion, British is a nationality. And that is why despite the fact Muslim isn't a race, a lot of the prejudice over it still boils down to pure racism.

Use the millions we spend on foreign aid to cover this. Look after our own before other countries.

I love when anyone uses this line. Like because we're really good at looking after our own too aren't we? Governments cut and decimate services for the poor, vulnerable, disabled, homeless, sick etc and the foreigners still get the blame.

It's a bit like when everyone was having a go at anyone in favour of helping refugees by demanding to know why they didn't invite them to stay at their house if they loved them so much, look after our own and that. I imagine these same people must have been housing all our homeless people, since they were so compassionate about the plight of 'our own' right?

 

[Blitzballer]

Sorry meant Billion not million

 

[blademan89]

Not a chance that a Corbyn government will invest in any form of defence for this country.

Not a chance that c*** will win anyway so we're fine on that front.

 

[Redfox]

There needs to be serious change in this country. Starting with a complete ban on any Muslims entering the country at all, all faith schools to be closed, mosques to be severely limited and have members of our security forces present to hear everything that is said. Severe measures need to be taken under severe circumstances and that's exactly the situation we find ourselves in. The government and politicians have got to take charge and sort this out instead of shitting themselves and letting them do whatever they want. The extreme option is the British public taking it into there own hands which last night when I first heard sounded good to me but we don't want that really or we just carry on as we are and keep letting this happen over and over and fucking over again.

Damn right!

Just being tolerant is not going to stop this, it will keep happening unless we all grow some fucking balls and vote for the toughest party there is on Islam.

 

[blademan89]

No. You would be a New Zealander if you were born in New Zealand. Muslim is a religion, British is a nationality. And that is why despite the fact Muslim isn't a race, a lot of the prejudice over it still boils down to pure racism.



I love when anyone uses this line. Like because we're really good at looking after our own too aren't we? Governments cut and decimate services for the poor, vulnerable, disabled, homeless, sick etc and the foreigners still get the blame.

It's a bit like when everyone was having a go at anyone in favour of helping refugees by demanding to know why they didn't invite them to stay at their house if they loved them so much, look after our own and that. I imagine these same people must have been housing all our homeless people, since they were so compassionate about the plight of 'our own' right?

No I'd still be English, well in fact half english and half scottish as thats where my parents are from it's in the blood not some random place you are fucking born. They may of been born here but they certainly arent proud to be british and i dont expect them to be as they are not British.

 

[Ian_Wrexham]

There's a theological element to this. Bad ideas (violent Islamofascism) need to be challenged and beaten by good ones (British democracy). A starting point is actually acknowledging the nature of the problem. I think for the most part all sections of British society are getting better at this. People are rediscovering their courage after a decade or two of paralysis as people feared being called racist.

British democracy is not a particularly good idea - rooted as it continues to be in imperial relations. Nor is it in implacable conflict with "violent islamofascism" whatever that is. I mean, the UK has historically been a major funder of Islamist militias and continues to do so by funding brutal militias with links to al Qaeda in Syria. It maintains cordial relations with regimes that fund sectarian violence across the Islamic world and exports the tools by which democratic and socialist movments across the Islamic World have been repressed.

It's socialism or barbarism. And British Democracy normally finds itself allied with the latter against the former.

But there are still those who claim the primary reasons for these attacks are British foreign and domestic policies. An absolutely extraordinary assertion I've seen very little convincing evidence to support.

7/7 bomber Mohammed Siddique Khan:
"Your democratically-elected governments continuously perpetuate atrocities against my people all over the world. And your support of them makes you directly responsible, just as I am directly responsible for protecting and avenging my Muslim brothers and sisters. Until we feel security you will be our targets and until you stop the bombing, gassing, imprisonment and torture of my people we will not stop this fight. We are at war and I am a soldier. Now you too will taste the reality of this situation."

Killer of Lee Rigby, Michael Adebolajo:
"The only reason we’ve killed this person is because Muslims are dying daily by British soldiers. It’s an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth. These soldiers go to our land, kill, bomb our people.

"Remove your governments – they don’t care about you. You think David Cameron is going to get caught in the street when we start busting our guns? You think politicians are going to die?

"No, it’s going to be the average guy, like you, and your children. So get rid of them – tell them to bring our troops back so we can all live in peace. Leave our land."

 

[HertsWolf]

Not a chance that c*** will win anyway so we're fine on that front.

Is it really necessary to use the language? Surely more than a decade of education has given you a slightly wider vocabulary than the ability to call the leader of a political party "a c***"? I mean what do you use with someone who's worse? Do you just use multiple "fucking"?

For a while, perhaps imagine you are discussing this with a group of people in a room who have different opinions.

 

[blademan89]

Is it really necessary to use the language? Surely more than a decade of education has given you a slightly wider vocabulary than the ability to call the leader of a political party "a c***"? I mean what do you use with someone who's worse? Do you just use multiple "fucking"?

For a while, perhaps imagine you are discussing this with a group of people in a room who have different opinions.

Jesus Christ I've heard it all now , sorry I won't use the C word again.

 

[Renegade]

Jesus Christ I've heard it all now , sorry I won't use the C word again.

It's alright mate, you can say Corbyn in here.

 

[Redfox]

That'll stop people born in this country.

Good call. Well done.

Well most of them just happen to be born to Islamic parents who came over and brought their savage culture with them.

 

[TheMinsterman]

Fully agree.
We spunk something like 12 million a year in foreign aid to some countries with space programmes . Seriously couldn't make this shit up

Foreign aid is not entirely altruistic, quite often it is simply investing in countries we hope to develop beneficial trade deals with in the future, helping develop their countries is almost certainly done with an expectation of some sort of reciprocal kindness down the line when they've got something we want. We can't trade with underdeveloped, chaotic countries. It's not 100% charitable and no government is going to stop doing it.

 

[HertsWolf]

Use the millions we spend on foreign aid to cover this. Look after our own before other countries.

We spent £12.1 billion on foreign aid last year, up from around £3 billion a year we spent through the 1980s and 1990s. We agreed, like most developed nations, to spend 0.7% of GNI on foreign aid. Only in the last 4 years have we met that target. Before the rabid Tories start spewing the love, it was Labour who typically underspent on ODA and largely the Tories who met the targets agreed with the UN 35 or so years ago.

I know the Mail and the Express would have you think that the money is spunked on fast cars and Champagne for dictators and on putting a banana republic colonel on the moon, but the reality is a bit different. Considerable amounts of it goes on infrastructure and nearly all of it on economic development in areas where British interests are strong (rightly or wrongly). This means that British industry and British jobs do very well out of it, thank you. These kinds of loans (and most of it is in the form of loans rather than donations) helps creates jobs and economic and social well-being that - wow - help reduce the demand for a ticket out of the place. A job created in an African or Middle Eastern country is a person not sitting in a camp in Calais.

About £2 billion goes on humanitarian aid in crises, and I'm sure you wouldn't begrudge that.

So think it through. Increased investment in ODA most likely helps reduce migration.

Do the recipient countries spend the money widely? Much of the money is channeled (increasingly) carefully by people like the World Bank and the development banks, but no, a lot of it is a complete waste of our taxes. I'm not pretending it's perfect or even particularly good, but it is helpful and it can be improved.

 

[Look Out There Are Llamas]

My dad immigrated over here from the Republic of Ireland. I was raised Catholic. I guess the IRA is my fault and I should #gobacktowhereIcamefrom. Or can I blame JaseTheVillain as he is responsible for terrorism instead?

My friend Said is a Turkish Muslim, is he okay or should I immediately renounce him? I need to know where I stand on this.

 

[HertsWolf]

Jesus Christ I've heard it all now , sorry I won't use the C word again.

No-one's objecting to you using the C word. I use it frequently. I just wondered if it was really necessary to use it simply to refer to a politician.

 

[Blitzballer]

Terror threat level raised to "Critical"

 

[blademan89]

Foreign aid is not entirely altruistic, quite often it is simply investing in countries we hope to develop beneficial trade deals with in the future, helping develop their countries is almost certainly done with an expectation of some sort of reciprocal kindness down the line when they've got something we want. We can't trade with underdeveloped, chaotic countries. It's not 100% charitable and no government is going to stop doing it.

Pakistan
Ethiopia
Afghanistan
Nigeria
Syria
Sierra leonne
South Sudan
Tanzania
India
Bangladesh

What are we honestly gaining by giving these countries between them 2.5billion a year.

 

[blademan89]

No-one's objecting to you using the C word. I use it frequently. I just wondered if it was really necessary to use it simply to refer to a politician.

Well yes it's just a normal term in my language and obviously is in yours too if you use it frequently. A politician is probably the best example to use it actually. You disagree with my thoughts on previous posts, fair enough but give me a fucking break you're having a pop about calling a politician a c***, get a grip.

 

[HertsWolf]

Pakistan
Ethiopia
Afghanistan
Nigeria
Syria
Sierra leonne
South Sudan
Tanzania
India
Bangladesh

What are we honestly gaining by giving these countries between them 2.5billion a year.

You realise that the amount we give these countries is a fraction of the value of food it is estimated we throw out?
As explained above, considerable amounts go in to infrastructure and economic development that help to meet expect goals shared by ALL developed nations and also contribute towards reducing migration to Europe and elsewhere.

For three of these countries, the money spent in recent years is clearly humanitarian supporting refugees, providing water, urgent health care, basic accommodation.

Try to calm down for a while and think about it all rather than just blast off in fury.

 

[Blitzballer]

So with the threat level being increased, this is basically martial law? Crazy