Forest Green

[Grimsby69]

Have posted another massive loss, £2.9 Million loss this is on top of last years £2.4 Million loss. this has taken the companies losses to now £8.7 million

Year Income Salaries Losses
May 2010 (6 months) £341,011 £671,960 £217,323
May-11 £1,066,722 £852,304 £431,351
May-12 £730,514 £1,013,185 £1,076,029
Apr-13 £864,476 £1,500,654 £1,698,811
Apr-14 £700,542 £1,837,920 £2,429,492
Apr-15 £1,029,421 £2,137,962 £2,943,054

So any Forest Green Fans that think without Eco director could survive in league football is deluded as nearly £9 million of losses in 5 1/2 years proves different. As income would only increase by about 50-60%

 

[The_Boss]

Yeah but there's loads of kids wearing FGR shirts that were given out for free so it doesn't matter.

 

[Luke Imp]

Are they not cumulative losses i.e. losses add up to £3m? Not each years loss.

 

[Grimsby69]

yearly losses cumulative is 9million

 

[Chris FGR]

Yeah yeah yeah, whatever. Pointless thread.

You can make anything out of statistics. Our income went up by 300k in the last year, so things are going in the right direction.

 

[Bluandwite]

 

[Alty Pieman]

Yeah yeah yeah, whatever. Pointless thread.

You can make anything out of statistics. Our income went up by 300k in the last year, so things are going in the right direction.

Its not pointless at all, basically you are bankrupt the moment your vegan clears off or pops his clogs, enjoy it while it lasts

 

[Luke Imp]

yearly losses cumulative is 9million

No, you're adding up the total debt at the end of each year. Point being, is that purely that years loss or inclusive of previous years, too.

i.e. Year 2's loss was actually £214k, not £431k.

 

[Chris FGR]

Our income is going up, our crowds are growing and our owner is about to spend £100m on a new stadium complex. £3m is a drop in the ocean, we'll be debt free in 5 years if get in the league.

 

[EnglishRed]

Our income is going up, our crowds are growing and our owner is about to spend £100m on a new stadium complex. £3m is a drop in the ocean, we'll be debt free in 5 years if get in the league.

How?

The losses don't surprise me. Almost as bad as Grimsby

 

[BeesKnees]

No, you're adding up the total debt at the end of each year. Point being, is that purely that years loss or inclusive of previous years, too.
i.e. Year 2's loss was actually £214k, not £431k.

The most recent accounts definitely show a loss for the year of £2.9m and £9m as the amount owned to shareholders and other creditors. The figures originally quoted don't show full costs, just salaries.

2015
Turnover 1,029,421
Cost of Sales -2,471,400
Admin expenses -1,591,811
Other Income 80,648
Operating Loss 2,953,142

Creditors due within 12 months : 5,413,197
Creditors due after 12 months : 2.891,080

 

[Luke Imp]

Fair enough, that was the clarification I was after.

 

[les.gtfc]

I think that us Grimsby fans should be the last team to comment on another overspending going by our recent accounts.

As FGR are reliant on Dale Vince, we're reliant on John Fenty. I know he has said that he will only walk away if a suitable replacement can be found AND that he would not call in what he is owed but if anything unexpected (hopefully not) ever happened then I think we'd be right in the shit too.

 

[GuiseleySteve]

And here's me worrying about the reported two million pounds our ground improvements to national league criteria are costing!

 

[Saddlerrad]

They are another Crawley etc, who will probably have a couple of years in League 1/2 and then dwindle when the money drifts away and the investors get bored at the lack of expansion in fanbase, home attendances etc. Let the fans of the relative clubs enjoy it whilst it lasts I say. Forest Green in a decades time probably won't look much different than they are now, except they will be surviving off a normal budget and normal crowds.

 

[Chris FGR]

Our income for the past year was over £1 million, add the extra income we'd get from being in League 2 and that could well double or more. Once we're in League 2 we'll need to comply with FFP but could still do alright if our playing budget dropped to below £1 million. That puts us on track I'd say.

Once the new multi sporting and business park complex is built, we'll be in a sports and business centre for the entire district. Vince is confident of getting planning permission and says a conservative estimate for the project to be complete is 5 years. We could easily be the English Hoffenheim.

Being ambitious and constantly looking to grow your club is better and will get you further then bumbling along like a lot of the stagnant old clubs are at this level and in the lower ends of the football league. You've got to speculate to accumulate. People might not like it, but we're going places.

 

[1884 Belmont]

Our income for the past year was over £1 million, add the extra income we'd get from being in League 2 and that could well double or more. Once we're in League 2 we'll need to comply with FFP but could still do alright if our playing budget dropped to below £1 million. That puts us on track I'd say.

Once the new multi sporting and business park complex is built, we'll be in a sports and business centre for the entire district. Vince is confident of getting planning permission and says a conservative estimate for the project to be complete is 5 years. We could easily be the English Hoffenheim.

Being ambitious and constantly looking to grow your club is better and will get you further then bumbling along like a lot of the stagnant old clubs are at this level and in the lower ends of the football league. You've got to speculate to accumulate. People might not like it, but we're going places.

You do realise you can only spend a percentage of income on wages at L1 and L2 level, don't you? I think it's about 60% in L2, but could be lower. So a £1m income would mean a maximum budget of £600,000. We finished bottom last year on a starting budget of around £700k, that went well over £1m with panic buys. Oh, and our income was over £4m.

Sure, you could just plough money in via 'sponsorship', but that just cements the fact that without your owner, you would be very unlikely to sustain a Football League club. At best, you'd be a Southern Accrington, scraping along and hoping to avoid relegation. Look who is in that League - Luton, Portsmouth, Oxford, Plymouth, Notts County - all big, traditional clubs whose attendances and earned spending power blows FGR out the water. If Pompey's owners leave, they've got up to 17,000 paying customers paying roughly £18 each - £306,000 just in one game in gate receipts. 4 - 6 home games and they equal your entire income!
Luton would probably do it in about 10-12, Oxford, Plymouth, Notts County possibly 12-15.

Yes, you may well 'be going places', but if your owner left you'd be straight back again. Just to put it into perspective, Wolves had a rumoured £14m budget in L1 and crowds of 25k+. Sheffield United, Coventry - how far do you honestly think you could go on your current attendances? You could do a Yeovil, but look at them now! Possibly back here next year. It's not sour grapes or jealousy, but the Football League is another world in terms of budgets, wages and competition and you'd struggle big time without your owner.

 

[CFC2010]

They are another Crawley etc, who will probably have a couple of years in League 1/2 and then dwindle when the money drifts away and the investors get bored at the lack of expansion in fanbase, home attendances etc. Let the fans of the relative clubs enjoy it whilst it lasts I say. Forest Green in a decades time probably won't look much different than they are now, except they will be surviving off a normal budget and normal crowds.

Easy to say when you are a fan of a football league club.

 

[BeesKnees]

Problem with speculation is the value can go down as well as up.

 

[Forza Imps]

Easy to say when you are a fan of a football league club.

Indeed, this screws it up for other teams who live within their means and are sustainable. We have no hope of matching the spending power of a club like Forest Green. Means that other clubs have to spend more to keep up and to compete (see, Grimsby), it's not a level playing field.

 

[Semi-skimmed Silk]

We could easily be the English Hoffenheim.

Or the English Gretna.

But you probably won't, you'll probably be neither.

 

[Chris FGR]

Indeed, this screws it up for other teams who live within their means and are sustainable. We have no hope of matching the spending power of a club like Forest Green. Means that other clubs have to spend more to keep up and to compete (see, Grimsby), it's not a level playing field.

No it doesn't. Spend what you can afford. Football has never been a level playing field. Get over it.

 

[Forza Imps]

No it doesn't. Spend what you can afford. Football has never been a level playing field. Get over it.

Seem to remember a time when teams outside of Manchester or London won the league.

Was certainly leveller before big rich men came in and took over the working class game and turned clubs into a product. Look at FGR for example, you've gone from traditional colours to ridiculous garish green numbers. You're an advert for Dale Vince now, that's all you'll ever be.

My point is that like Hoffenheim, you're artificial. You don't come from anything, as soon as the money is gone you'll have a massive stadium, the fans will dwindle and you'll end up straight back down here.

 

[Grimsby69]

Grimsby income for the last two years was just short of £2 million each year. Total wages including all match day staff was £1.5 million. Down by £60K on previous year. Total losses for the last two years was £287K.

 

[Chris FGR]

Doesn't sound like a major concern to me.

 

[yellow]

We could easily be the English Hoffenheim.

Outstanding.

 

[B2TF]

And here's me worrying about the reported two million pounds our ground improvements to national league criteria are costing!

Worried? Why would you be worried? One of your spunkmeisters will just write a cheque.

 

[B2TF]

No it doesn't. Spend what you can afford. Football has never been a level playing field. Get over it.

You're trying to buy a place in the Football League, that would otherwise belong to a club that had earned it. You're no different to MK Dons.

 

[Chris FGR]

We'd have earned it on the pitch, not bought another club, moved it and taken it's place. So that's bollocks.

Different clubs have different budgets, it's the same in all leagues. FGR have never gone into admin or gone bust, and so have never damaged local companies/suppliers or cheated the tax authorities. We're in a much better position morally speaking then clubs like Halifax and Chester, that have cheated a lot of people down the years.

 

[BeesKnees]

View attachment 2208

Doesn't sound like a major concern to me.

Doh!
You really think shareholders are going to say they are going to send the club under.
It's the 3m black hole in your annual profits that should be your concern, not what is already owed to the shareholders as that is dead money, everyone knows FGR could never pay that money back.

Your 1 mil revenue isn't great, even if tripled in league two it would still be in the bottom third. Sounds like you need that new ground now and you need the revenue streams to be good.