Fri 19th/Sat 20th fixtures

[HutchECFC]

At the end of the day, Reading should be playing against the likes of Egham Town, Broadfields United and their local derby, Reading City, instead of League 1 football.

 

[Madejski]

I'll make this my last post on this forum. Clearly not welcome, and I know I am causing more of an issue for everyone so best to leave.

I'll respond to the final few messages just come in.


Of course Sam Smith hasn't returned to Reading purely because he used to play for their academy. But because he used to play for the academy he will have ties to the area, he may still own a house in Reading, he may like the area and prefer to live there then other parts of the country. Even if he hasn't, he may have accepted lower pay at Reading compared to other places.

Reading have paid all of their players on time this season.

We had a £1m shortfall to see us through until the end of the season that our sponsors (a Reading based company owned by Reading fans) have covered with early payment.

Port Vale and Cambridge are two examples of football clubs who lost £3m+ last season. Had they not had owners willing to cover the difference, write-off it off or convert it to debt, then they too would be in the same position as Reading.


Apologies if you feel I was stirring. All the best for you guys in the future, both on this forum, with supporting your football teams, and with life outside of football too.

 

[Tangerine_tart]

I'll make this my last post on this forum. Clearly not welcome, and I know I am causing more of an issue for everyone so best to leave.

I'll respond to the final few messages just come in.


Of course Sam Smith hasn't returned to Reading purely because he used to play for their academy. But because he used to play for the academy he will have ties to the area, he may still own a house in Reading, he may like the area and prefer to live there then other parts of the country. Even if he hasn't, he may have accepted lower pay at Reading compared to other places.

Reading have paid all of their players on time this season.

We had a £1m shortfall to see us through until the end of the season that our sponsors (a Reading based company owned by Reading fans) have covered with early payment.

Port Vale and Cambridge are two examples of football clubs who lost £3m+ last season. Had they not had owners willing to cover the difference, write-off it off or convert it to debt, then they too would be in the same position as Reading.


Apologies if you feel I was stirring. All the best for you guys in the future, both on this forum, with supporting your football teams, and with life outside of football too.

It's just differing opinions. We all support and stick up for our clubs. Reading FC has experienced a turbulent few seasons , just like Blackpool and many other clubs have in the past. Stick around . The more people on here, the better .

 

[Bartonyellow]

I'll make this my last post on this forum. Clearly not welcome, and I know I am causing more of an issue for everyone so best to leave.

I'll respond to the final few messages just come in.


Of course Sam Smith hasn't returned to Reading purely because he used to play for their academy. But because he used to play for the academy he will have ties to the area, he may still own a house in Reading, he may like the area and prefer to live there then other parts of the country. Even if he hasn't, he may have accepted lower pay at Reading compared to other places.

Reading have paid all of their players on time this season.

We had a £1m shortfall to see us through until the end of the season that our sponsors (a Reading based company owned by Reading fans) have covered with early payment.

Port Vale and Cambridge are two examples of football clubs who lost £3m+ last season. Had they not had owners willing to cover the difference, write-off it off or convert it to debt, then they too would be in the same position as Reading.


Apologies if you feel I was stirring. All the best for you guys in the future, both on this forum, with supporting your football teams, and with life outside of football too.

Stick around. It will get better.

 

[Laker]

You are welcome here of course but you were the one suggesting the narrative about Reading was incorrect! We’ve just got differing opinions and we all defend our clubs. A heathy forum has differing opinions, flouncing off because you don’t like other people’s views is hardly the way to go.

Anyway, we lost £1.7m last year which was alarming to us but is related to the redevelopment of our training facility and ground repurchase/redevelopment, not player wages which remain one of the lowest 6 in the division and were covered comfortably by our turnover. We turned a profit the year before (albeit smaller). Oh and the entire loss was underwritten by directors via equity - we are debt free.

Reading have paid all their players on time this season in order to avoid further sanctions. They failed to pay their back room staff on time on at least one occasion (I haven’t checked if there were further occurrences) because their player wages were too high. That’s the issue.

I hope you stuck around but you have to understand it’s ok for people to disagree with you….

 

[dwightyorke]

Where to start with this, a lot of fabrication in this statement. I assume there has been no Reading fans on this forum this season and these false statements have been allowed to fester?

Reading's transfer embargo during last Summer was that we were not allowed to pay transfer fees, loan fees or compensation fees. After we failed to pay HMRC in October, this transfer embargo was further extended to the next three transfer windows. But with those restrictions we would still be able to sign the players you have mentioned as there were no transfer fee, loan fee or compensation fee involved.

We have paid players on time this season. We were in total 6 days late at paying players last season, which is why we started this season on negative points.

20 point deduction is extreme, especially when only 12 points is penalised for Administration. Clubs that go into Administration only have to pay a fraction of what they owe. Local businesses, other football clubs etc will not see all of what they are owed. Why give a more severe penalty for a less impactful offence? I believe as it stands today Reading do not owe any external parties anything, as we have now paid HMRC etc.

We have been playing a lot of youth team this season. As mentioned in my previous post we have the fewest number of registered senior players in this division. We have played on average the second youngest age team in the division this season (would be a lot lower had we not got a 35 year old goalkeeper).

I would expect based on attendances etc Reading have the fourth highest revenue in the league this season, but we will be nowhere near having the fourth highest wage bill.

I believe that the Reading fans who postponed the pitch were invading knowing that there would be a likely immediate points deduction. I am surprised the EFL only gave a suspended penalty. Although the most recent precedent was a Blackpool pitch invasion in May 2015 where no points deduction was made.

But the fans who got that game postponed were no doubt celebrating like they won the world cup when they won the replayed game against vale that shouldn't have been replayed. The points deduction should have happened because it was all over the internet saying reading fans were going on the pitch to get the game postponed in the 16th minute and nothing was put in place to stop it. If that had been at any other ground in the league extra stewards and police would have been brought in people would have been searched and had tennis balls flares ect taken off them which you have had thrown on the pitch in several games. You know as a club you have cheated the system but won't acknowledge the fact your lucky not to have had more points or relegation put on you.

 

[denzel ecfc]

Reading were handing out three year contracts to the likes of Wing and Knibbs in the Summer, when they knew they couldn't pay the staff
I suspect if Cambridge had been able to keep hold of Knibbs (or match what Reading were offering) they might already be safe..

 

[valefan16]

Yeah in fairness our 3 million loss is largely down to infrastructure. Pitch improvements, hospitality and the like hopefully which makes us longer term more sustainable whilst competitive.

I hope you choose to stay as another club which isn’t really represented much on here would benefit the forum.

 

[leedsvaliant]

We're not going to see eye to eye. I've stated facts, you've stated opinions. Lets end it at that.

Being unable to pay all your staff because your wage bill was too high isn't an opinion though. You couldn't afford these players that have kept you up, so you've cheated the system. Virtually all clubs run at a loss, but if it's manageable and all bills are paid on time then that's well within the rules. You can see the annoyance that you've taken some very good league 1 players that other teams could have really benefited from.

Getting a game purposely abandoned isn't an opinion, it's fact. I know because I was there!

Most of the clubs down here have had terrible owners that almost put them out of business but we don't affect other teams by our actions.

You don't deserve your position in this league in my opinion. Nothing personal by the way but when my club has struggled to put a pub team together it just irks me that others don't play by the same rules.

 

[dannylad01]

The sending off that you were definitely going to get overturned?

Maybe Woods deserved to get sent off yesterday, buy inexplicable that Guthrie didn't even get a yellow

Don't think I ever said it would definetly get overturned. Club appealed but it was rejected. He gave the ref a decision to make, which wasn't helped by Woods' reaction, much the same as the incident yesterday. Was pointing out that players overreact to get fellow pros into trouble.

 

[Pompeyblueboy]

We had a very similar situation less than 5 years ago. Our owner was holding us olto ransom and threatening to put us in administration. Did we protest? Yes. Did we stop any matches? No. I guarantee that Reading fans wouldn't have given a shit.

That game changed the course of our season. Don't get me wrong, we've been awful but imagine what 3 points would have done for our confidence and morale in January. The game the week after was postponed too and by the end of January we had lost our best loanees and were in the shit.

If I was a Reading supporter I would have wanted our team to go all out today in solidarity against an awful Burton team but clearly when the shoe is on the other foot they don't give a shit. The EFL are dicks but they didn't force you to postpone a match.

You also signed a bunch of players like the lads from Cambridge who you didn't intend to pay. It's cheating other teams who could have paid. You should never have been allowed to sign these players.

To be clear, I'm not one of those fans who stood in solidarity with you. I thought it was a c*** trick and I think it's a disgrace that you'll still be lining up in league 1 next season.

Stop blaming Reading for your crappy season. You got relegated cos u r shite not because of Reading,

The Reading fan should ignore the PV lot, They're just a bunch of keyboard warriors

 

[leedsvaliant]

Stop blaming Reading for your crappy season. You got relegated cos u r shite not because of Reading,

The Reading fan should ignore the PV lot, They're just a bunch of keyboard warriors

Do you ever read? Or can you read? I blatantly said many times that we've been relegated because we deserve to. I'm also not the only supporter to call Reading out on this, it's not just Vale fans.

One blessing of relegation is that I won't have to put up with your ramblings for a few years.

 

[HutchECFC]

One blessing of relegation is that I won't have to put up with your ramblings for a few years.

Exactly my thoughts but about them going up

 

[SVH]

Let's not forget Sam Smith turned down Derby in favour of a return to Reading. I can't imagine Derby would have been offering him peanuts and the Manchester born Sam Smith favoured the location of Reading over Derby....

 

[Madejski]

I lied about the last post being my last. Thought best to address some of the comment since, especially those kindly asking me to stick around. This will be my last.

I came back to this forum to have genuinely good conversations with people about football, but if any post I make has the automatic response of “you cheats” then it’s not enjoyable, and all I am doing is derailing the conversation for everyone else wanting to read.

From my perspective I challenged some people’s opinions with genuine facts, but they wouldn’t let the facts get in the way of their opinions. I tried my best to only provide facts to be as impartial as possible. Example being the accusation that Reading “signed players they had no intention of paying”, when the fact of the matter is that Reading have paid all of their players on time.

I used to post actively on this forum (including the old forum that pre-dated this) as a young adult, and was probably at the time up for arguments and active disagreements. But ultimately I can’t be bothered these days to waste my time with these conversations and have better things to do. Football has stressed me out too much over the last couple of years, not knowing if I would have a club to support anymore, and all this is doing is re-igniting those feelings.



My final response on these matters. I’m not expecting this to change opinions but let’s put it all down together;

Reading fans have not been happy with their current ownership for many years. Originally it seemed good, a billionaire who also owned two other football clubs. We were taken over just prior to our 2017 Championship play-off final, and through many poor decisions, terrible spending, have found ourselves relegated out of the Championship. Our owner relied on his business friend, a football agent, for advice and transfer strategy. The same agent whose heavily involved at Sheffield Wednesday and Everton (very coincidental all 3 clubs have had terrible finances). The Belgium club he owned was liquidated in 2020. The Chinese club he owned was liquidated in 2021. With news of these liquidations protests against the ownership started (a long time prior to our relegation).

This season was supposed to be a fresh start, clean slate, a time to run the club sensibly once more, as we had done back in the John Madejski era. Reading started this season with 8 contracted players. We made some signings in the Summer (which may or may not have outpriced other clubs). Our budgets for playing staff would have been set by our owners, based on how much of their own money they were willing to put forward. Like almost all other clubs at this level, Reading run at a loss, and are reliant on their owners funding as there is a natural shortfall. If all were normal we should be able to outprice many clubs at this level for signings.

Reading’s budget is likely modest relative to our revenue. I would predict that Reading have the fourth highest revenue in the division, but our wage bill is nowhere near as high as top four. Although that fact cannot be proven until next year when the accounts get published. The modesty can only be shown as we have the smallest registered senior squad in this division, and have been fielding academy players throughout the season.

In September Reading were deducted 3 points as our owner had previously agreed with the EFL he would put aside some of his own money into a holding account which would be used by the EFL should we be unable to pay our players. This was because last season we were in total 6 days late due to administrative issues (mostly not factoring in public holidays). The Football Club has no control over the decisions and promises the owner makes, but gets punished for those failings.

Then in October, the money that was seemingly promised by our owner to cover any shortfall for running costs was not paid (no idea whether he wouldn’t or couldn’t). The club then had to make the terrible decision of paying the players before some non-playing staff, until enough money came in the next week through ticket sales etc. We then failed to pay HMRC on time, and received another points deduction.

In December our CEO promised that the owner was still committed and would fund the club as he had promised (and as all other clubs in League One have owners that do so too), and the money would come from him and not through sales of assets.

In mid-January it was rumoured that there was a fire sale at Reading and all players would be available. This differs to what we were told by our owners only weeks before. The decision was then made by some Reading fans to abandon a game against Port Vale. This was not unanimously supported, I personally was not in favour. The abandonment happened, and for the first time after almost 3 years of protests Reading’s plight got national coverage. The precedent for abandoned games is that the game must be replayed as points are to be won on the pitch. I am surprised that Reading only got a suspended points deduction, and I would have expected and thought that -3 points was fair – as even in the best case scenario that happened we would be no better off points wise. It was argued by Port Vale fan that Reading were in better shape before the original game then before the rearranged game. That is not true, Reading had gone into the original game unbeaten in 6 (including away at two of the current top 6), whereas by the rearranged game our first choice centreback pairing had been sold and we had just drawn 1-1 against Fleetwood and been thumped 4-1 by Portsmouth. Reading fans appreciated Port Vale fans support during the day, travelling down knowing there was a good chance the game would be abandoned. Call it guilty conscious if you like, but Reading fans donated more than £10k towards a statue for Port Vale legend John Rudge, as thanks for their support.

As it stands today to my knowledge Reading have paid all external parties (with the only creditor being our owner), thanks in part to early sponsor payment by our main sponsor (a Reading based company owned by Reading fans). We are currently in talks with a takeover that we hope to go ahead. If they do not go ahead, then the path to liquidation draws nearer.



Now the argument that I skirted around saying, was that would you accuse clubs of going into administration of cheating? By definition of administration you are paying out money that you do not have. And then to resolve yourself from administration you do not pay external parties in full for what you actually owe them.

Reading in comparison as of Today have paid everything they owe.

So then the argument that we deserve greater points deduction than clubs who enter administration seems harsh.

I have every sympathy for any club that has been through administration, the perilous position it leaves you in, completely reliant on a saviour to prevent liquidation. Due to the nature of Reading’s finances and only now owing money to our owner who is no longer putting anything in, administration is not possible, and liquidation would be the next step. We are in the same position of needing a saviour to prevent liquidation.
Ask any Reading fan a couple of months ago and they would have been happy for Administration to give a guaranteed end to our current ownership.
To answer the question, I would not accuse a fan of any club that has been through administration as cheating, so struggle to see the difference compared to Reading’s scenario.


And with those mammoth post I am now out of this forum. Enjoy your lives. Peace

 

[Si Robin]

Here's the thing - and I know you said you're not coming back, that is a shame because I think this place would be better with your Reading hat on - some of us have never been in administration. I'm not anti-Reading, I'm anti-clubs beating the system.

We live within our means, always have done, and as such feel hard done by when clubs do shit or bust every year and do better at our expense. Even after the ITV Digital fiasco, we were fine because we didn't spend money we haven't got. At our fan's forum last week we were told that one club has apparently spent the Premier League money that hasn't even been agreed yet - that's crazy. We don't spend until we know what we're getting.

We announced a loss of £500k for the 22/23 period - we were able to do that though because we had a surplus of cash following profits made in previous years.

What grates is that fans of different clubs have the bucket shakers and woe is me protests every year - this year it's Reading, a couple of years back Derby, before then Bolton and Bury. Wigan are at what? Round 3? All of these teams (Bury aside) have headed back up the table spending more than us again, and in a few years all of them are more likely to be bucket shaking again whilst we keep plodding along. I don't begrudge the fans protesting when it goes to shit - what I don't like (and Wigan seemed to be the worst for this) are the celebrations and "we're going to outspend left, right and centre" when a new guy takes over, only for the woe is me to come back a couple of years later.

It gets frustrating, but I suppose at least I can sleep at night knowing we did it the right way.

To think - a lot of our fans have been crying for our board to be sacked in the past week. They really don't know how good they have it.

 

[kieran_vale]

I’ve always felt in terms of clubs going into financial difficulty / admin etc the sympathy for some clubs died out when Leicester outright cheated the system (and won a promotion that very year with no points deduction) and it has been looked on with suspicion ever since. Obviously each situation is different but especially those clubs of a reasonable size it’s always a bit more difficult to raise sympathy as it’s often the product of trying to chase the Premier League.

FWIW I completely disagree with LeedsValiant on your protest. Was there that day and was one of those who applauded them and would do the same again. Fortunately it never came to it with us a few years back but am pretty certain if push came to shove would have done it too. Could have done without the wasted train journey but life goes on and frankly we did it to ourselves on relegation with our recruitment not some abandoned game being a catalyst for it but will leave it at that.

 

[BRFC_Gas]

I’ve always felt in terms of clubs going into financial difficulty / admin etc the sympathy for some clubs died out when Leicester outright cheated the system (and won a promotion that very year with no points deduction) and it has been looked on with suspicion ever since. Obviously each situation is different but especially those clubs of a reasonable size it’s always a bit more difficult to raise sympathy as it’s often the product of trying to chase the Premier League.

FWIW I completely disagree with LeedsValiant on your protest. Was there that day and was one of those who applauded them and would do the same again. Fortunately it never came to it with us a few years back but am pretty certain if push came to shove would have done it too. Could have done without the wasted train journey but life goes on and frankly we did it to ourselves on relegation with our recruitment not some abandoned game being a catalyst for it but will leave it at that.

Do you guys think you would have stayed up if Devine and Arblaster had stayed the season? I think clubs are relying too much on the loan market these days, including us who had 6 so one had to sit in the stands every game.
IMO it makes a mockery of football when you can have half a team of borrowed players on the pitch

 

[kieran_vale]

Do you guys think you would have stayed up if Devine and Arblaster had stayed the season? I think clubs are relying too much on the loan market these days, including us who had 6 so one had to sit in the stands every game.
IMO it makes a mockery of football when you can have half a team of borrowed players on the pitch

Maybe if Arblaster stayed the year but look at him now playing in the Prem each week. That was a non-starter so almost not worth considering. Devine wouldn’t have made much difference I think, nice player but not that much of a needle mover really. I agree you can’t build your strategy around loan players. The then DOF and owner were boasting about how we were seen as a place for higher clubs to send them but you can’t do that at the expense of having a proper core of your own players.

 

[Si Robin]

Interestingly, I'd say the loan players were part of the reason we struggled so much at the start of the season.

It's noticeable how much better we were when DC basically fucked them all off and only played 1 or 2.

 

[Floreat Salopia]

Do you guys think you would have stayed up if Devine and Arblaster had stayed the season? I think clubs are relying too much on the loan market these days, including us who had 6 so one had to sit in the stands every game.
IMO it makes a mockery of football when you can have half a team of borrowed players on the pitch

I have to say, I disagree with this statement massively. For clubs such as Shrewsbury and Bristol Rovers, we have to rely on the loan market to compete with clubs such as Bolton, Derby, Pompey, etc at this level. We can’t just go out and spend 500k on a striker at the drop of a hat.

Put it this way, in our 2017/18 season where we finished 3rd, it was mainly down to the loans we had. We had Dean Henderson, Max Lowe, Ben Godfrey, Carlton Morris who are all now Premier League players. We did have Dan James too but he never played really. Point is though, if Hurst never struck gold with these, it’s very unlikely we would have got to the play off final as well as the EFL trophy final that season. It was hands down the best squad I’ve seen Salop have in my lifetime and definitely the most enjoyable and likeable team. They would be on the piss every Saturday in Shrewsbury with all the Salop fans but they got away with it as the would win most weeks. Only reason we never went up that season was biggest both Blackburn and Wigan both spent beyond their means (shock). But by having those loans it made it more of a level playing field for us.

Clubs like ours season sometimes depends on finding three or four very good loan players to compete at the top of of this division, if not then it’s whether we can find a gem from non league but that doesn’t happen often unless your clubs name is Peterborough United.

 

[valefan16]

Do you guys think you would have stayed up if Devine and Arblaster had stayed the season? I think clubs are relying too much on the loan market these days, including us who had 6 so one had to sit in the stands every game.
IMO it makes a mockery of football when you can have half a team of borrowed players on the pitch

Possibly, certainly the spell like Orient at home for example when we had Lowe and Ojo in midfield alone for example they'd have made a difference, Oli would create from nothing or play a pass other L1 players mostly couldn't so I am sure it would improved us going forward, but to caveat that largely midfield wasn't a massive problem, we had two players chip into double figures from the middle and they wouldn't have improved our defending from deep crosses to the back post or corners.

I suppose we'd have dominated the ball more in some games and not been as over run at times so may have made a difference but we were asking for trouble building around loan players. Gore was meant to be a great signing to replace and he wasn't seen again after half a game against Portsmouth then disappeared.

Its more criminal that we've gone down though having had Blaster for half a season!

 

[valefan16]

Do you guys think you would have stayed up if Devine and Arblaster had stayed the season? I think clubs are relying too much on the loan market these days, including us who had 6 so one had to sit in the stands every game.
IMO it makes a mockery of football when you can have half a team of borrowed players on the pitch

It worked a treat for you in 2022 though surely? Andersen, Taylor?

 

[BRFC_Gas]

I have to say, I disagree with this statement massively. For clubs such as Shrewsbury and Bristol Rovers, we have to rely on the loan market to compete with clubs such as Bolton, Derby, Pompey, etc at this level. We can’t just go out and spend 500k on a striker at the drop of a hat.

Put it this way, in our 2017/18 season where we finished 3rd, it was mainly down to the loans we had. We had Dean Henderson, Max Lowe, Ben Godfrey, Carlton Morris who are all now Premier League players. We did have Dan James too but he never played really. Point is though, if Hurst never struck gold with these, it’s very unlikely we would have got to the play off final as well as the EFL trophy final that season. It was hands down the best squad I’ve seen Salop have in my lifetime and definitely the most enjoyable and likeable team. They would be on the piss every Saturday in Shrewsbury with all the Salop fans but they got away with it as the would win most weeks. Only reason we never went up that season was biggest both Blackburn and Wigan both spent beyond their means (shock). But by having those loans it made it more of a level playing field for us.

Clubs like ours season sometimes depends on finding three or four very good loan players to compete at the top of of this division, if not then it’s whether we can find a gem from non league but that doesn’t happen often unless your clubs name is Peterborough United.

I know only too well as we are probably only here cos of Eliot Anderson. But 5 loan players who can play at the same time?... seems excessive to me. 3 max imo.
Maybe then the top clubs will not hoard all the young talent as they have fewer options in getting them mens footy experience.

 

[Floreat Salopia]

I know only too well as we are probably only here cos of Eliot Anderson. But 5 players who can play at the same time?... seems excessive to me. 3 max imo.
Maybe then the top clubs will not hoard all the young talent as they have fewer options in getting them mens footy experience.

I can see your viewpoint there, three players max in the matchday squad would make more sense I suppose, especially as prem clubs would no longer be able to hoard players for the sake of it like you say.

 

[BRFC_Gas]

I can see your viewpoint there, three players max in the matchday squad would make more sense I suppose, especially as prem clubs would no longer be able to hoard players for the sake of it like you say.

I think it used to be 3 loans max back in the day, but like everything in football its all changed to suit the likes of Chelsea so they can loan 40 players out every season.

 

[denzel ecfc]

Loans work both ways. We have 5 or 6 in our squad, but we have also loaned out a similar number to non league clubs.
In the past, the likes of Ollie Watkins, Josh Key and Sonny Cox have gone out to local non league sides and come back stronger.

 

[leedsvaliant]

I’ve always felt in terms of clubs going into financial difficulty / admin etc the sympathy for some clubs died out when Leicester outright cheated the system (and won a promotion that very year with no points deduction) and it has been looked on with suspicion ever since. Obviously each situation is different but especially those clubs of a reasonable size it’s always a bit more difficult to raise sympathy as it’s often the product of trying to chase the Premier League.

FWIW I completely disagree with LeedsValiant on your protest. Was there that day and was one of those who applauded them and would do the same again. Fortunately it never came to it with us a few years back but am pretty certain if push came to shove would have done it too. Could have done without the wasted train journey but life goes on and frankly we did it to ourselves on relegation with our recruitment not some abandoned game being a catalyst for it but will leave it at that.

Fair enough, each to their own opinion. I'm fortunate that I can swallow the cost of that day out at Reading but there will be a number of people who went who can't. I'm all for clubs taking action against bent owners, but not when it's detrimental to another club. There's no way of knowing how detrimental that was to us....we most likely would have got relegated anyway because we're shite. I was actually really pissed off with it at the time and so were many of the people I was with. Supportive for about 10 minutes but when we realised they weren't getting off the pitch there was no applause from us. It just felt a bit virtue signally to me.