General Election 2015

[Spear]

 

[.V.]

Cameron did crush Ed though

Gonna need a bigger boat to catch me Spear

 

[Modernist]

Funny how spear thinks Cameron is so good after Cameron refused to debate Milliband one on one. Cameron has to be the weakest Tory leader for decades.

 

[White Army]

Are you having a laugh? Sturgeon was strong, the best performer of all 7, but Bennett was a bit ineffectual and Wood was absolutely terrible.

I'm clearly not having a laugh. Yes most of what wood said may not be relevant to us in England, but what she did say about her country was right, and if I was Welsh I would be definitly voting for her. Bennett isn't the most charismatic of leaders and at times does struggle to get her point across, but she was only interested in putting across what the green party can do, rather than what other parties can't do. Something which the four men were guilty of. And sturgeon won hands down, I dare say if she was in charge of the yes campaign rather than salmond then Scotland would no longer be with us.

 

[Techno Natch]

Yeah I was really impressed with Wood as well. She came across as genuine and I know a lot a of others felt the same.

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

Does he actually have any worthwhile policies or ideas apart from just kicking out anyone who isn't British and of any use and getting out of the EU?

The fact that UKIP are relevant at all just illustrates how much the public cares about immigration and the EU and how little the mainstream parties give a shit about what they actually want.

 

[Modernist]

The fact that UKIP are relevant at all just illustrates how much the public cares about immigration and the EU and how little the mainstream parties give a shit about what they actually want.

why just vote for a party on one issue...that goes for all parties not just UKIP, UKIP voters seem to dismiss tax, NHS, housing, crime, education, welfare etc just because they want less immigrants and I guarantee you that those aforementioned topics they ignore have more impact on their lives than immigration does., then of course you have those who don't want to have anything to do with any positive immmigration stories and will dismiss anything that shows the positives that immigration has had. In other words they don't do themselves any favours.

 

[SUTSS]

It would be madness if the mainstream parties just followed public opinion. The public want some fucking stupid things at times that aren't backed up by any sort of evidence. That's what a representative democracy should be, electing someone that is in a better place to make those decisions.

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

why just vote for a party on one issue...that goes for all parties not just UKIP, UKIP voters seem to dismiss tax, NHS, housing, crime, education, welfare etc just because they want less immigrants and I guarantee you that those aforementioned topics they ignore have more impact on their lives than immigration does., [...]

The aforementioned topics don't change a great deal no matter who you vote for. We have a relatively homogeneous group of political elites in this country that have decided they know what's best for us on this one issue, and are impermeable to public opinion. If it's an issue you care about, and many people do because it's a massive one, then what other avenue do you have but to vote for the one sane party that represents you on it, and hope that the lost votes prompt the bigger parties to change?

The main reason I won't be voting is because I'll be voting against myself whoever I vote for, but if I were to vote, it probably would be for UKIP, because I know my vote would probably only be attributed to these issues that I care about rather than some of their nuttier policies. That's the advantage of a one-issue party I suppose.

It would be madness if the mainstream parties just followed public opinion. The public want some fucking stupid things at times that aren't backed up by any sort of evidence. That's what a representative democracy should be, electing someone that is in a better place to make those decisions.

This is about the kind of country we want to be, the kind of future we want to create. If the establishment has decided that it's their prerogative to dictate to us what that should be and indeed what that must be whether we like it or not, then I'm not sure in what sense you could call that the rule of the people, or 'democracy'.

 

[The Paranoid Pineapple]

My thoughts -

Cameron was polished enough but I'm not sure he will have converted many people that weren't previously planning on voting Tory. Seemed a bit reticent at times. Miliband had a tough ask in a way, as the centre-left challenger taking the stage alongside three anti-austerity parties. I thought he was pretty competent and surely exceeded low public expectations. I'm not sure there were any knockout blows here but I think they'll probably both be reasonably content with their performances.

I thought Clegg did pretty well too actually, he always looks quite comfortable in this sort of setting. But it doesn't really matter how well he performs. He lost the trust of the electorate a long time ago and will never regain it. I'm also not sure that positioning the party somewhere between Labour and the Tories is really going to prove to be much of a vote winner. They seem to be struggling to find a USP. Hardly surprising given how many issues they sold out on in an attempt to make coalition work.

Farage is a natural performer but I actually though he was rather underwhelming last night. We know that immigration's their strong suit but he tried to frame everything around the issue, in a way that made them look devoid of other policy ideas (which I rather suspect might be the case). And the jibe about immigrants with HIV was just plain nasty.

I'm not a huge fan of her or her party but Sturgeon performed well, very competent. Seemed to be extending a bit of an olive branch to the rest of the UK. Might help blunt the Tory SNP attacks, and make life a bit easier for Labour in England. Wood's likable enough but not as engaging a figure as the SNP leader, a bit Sturgeon-lite. Thought Bennett was fine, a few good lines but she doesn't really inspire. Also seemed the most nervous of the seven.

Thought Etchingham was fair throughout, although she struggled to control the debate at times. All in all it wasn't a bad affair; a bit messy at times but rarely boring.

 

[The Paranoid Pineapple]

An average of the polls from last night have Cameron at 22%, Miliband at 21.5%, Farrage at 21%, and Sturgeon at 20%. The Tory press however, would have you believe that Cameron crushed Milliband. What a bunch of disingenuous c***!

Quite. Once can only imagine they knocked these piss-poor efforts up before the whole shebang even took place

 

[SALTIRE]

Tory papers, no surprise their headlines are that.

Old super Nicky did your boy in eh Spear? Her, Miliband and Salmond to lead the UK into a new era of prosperity I'd say!

 

[TheArtfulDodger]

Sturgeon was by far and away the best performer, clear, concise and calm at all times. Really like her, shame she only stands for Scotland. The rest were a bit of a blur:Clegg was fairly impressive but he's caught between trying to be different and knowing his only hope is clinging to Cameron and Co again.

Miliband made some good points but was a bit cringey in his repetition of 'people at home' and turning to the camera after addressing the questioner for 3 seconds.

Cameron was completely irrelevant, harped on about the past and little else, from his perspective it went well though, he didn't get as bruised as he could have done.

Farage was poor, his supporters will applaud him as long he comes out with the usual lines but he's usually a lot more composed than last night.

Bennet, not a big enough personality really, struggled to be involved but I like her views on the economy in general and definitely considering a Green vote.

Wood was decent enough, put forward her points well but as the leader of such a small minority hard to be significant.

 

[Spear]

voting for the like greens or that is a bit soft, no ?

 

[Modernist]

Quite. Once can only imagine they knocked these piss-poor efforts up before the whole shebang even took place

dear oh dear, I suppose they had to, the bias is clear.

Yet their leader chickened out of a one2one debate with milliband.

 

[SALTIRE]

 

[blade1889]

saw a post on facebook about how everyone thinks the person they liked before the debate did best...just about sums it up.

No outstanding winners like Clegg last year or outstanding loosers like Brown.

Can't stand Miliband though, his vpoice makes me queasy.

 

[Bobbin']

I agree that Sturgeon was the best performer.

Although, am I the only one who found her a little contradictory? She made a point of telling us how she still believes Scotland should be independent and then later on says how passionate her party is about the NHS and how amazing it is. I could be extremely ignorant here, but surely the NHS wouldn't be available to Scots should they become independent?

Also, I thought Wood was terrible, she sounded as if she was reading a pre prepared speech from a piece of paper every time she spoke and she also gave Farage his moment by agreeing with him about the EU and immigration.

 

[Ellis]

I agree that Sturgeon was the best performer.

Although, am I the only one who found her a little contradictory? She made a point of telling us how she still believes Scotland should be independent and then later on says how passionate her party is about the NHS and how amazing it is. I could be extremely ignorant here, but surely the NHS wouldn't be available to Scots should they become independent?

Also, I thought Wood was terrible, she sounded as if she was reading a pre prepared speech from a piece of paper every time she spoke and she also gave Farage his moment by agreeing with him about the EU and immigration.

Not really. As much as I loathe Farage, whilst we're in the EU we can't control EU immigration. The problem is that we need the other parties to be shouting from the rooftops why free movement of EU citizens is inherently a good thing. All she did was be honest and admit that EU immigration is part and parcel of the EU.

 

[SALTIRE]

voting for the like greens or that is a bit soft, no ?

Sturgeon offers Ed deal to get him into number 10, that would be a hell of a great combination for the UK would it not Speary boy?
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/apr/04/sturgeon-offers-new-deal-to-miliband

 

[Red]

It's probably the best case scenario. The Torygraph has been made to look rather stupid again.

 

[SALTIRE]

It's probably the best case scenario. The Torygraph has been made to look rather stupid again.

I think this is a great point!

 

[Frank]

Farage showing himself up to the masses, hopefully more people can see him for what he is.

Really no great leaders out there mind, it's a case of pick your favourite piece of shit.

 

[SALTIRE]

Farage showing himself up to the masses, hopefully more people can see him for what he is.

Really no great leaders out there mind, it's a case of pick your favourite piece of shit.

Yeah Farage is a broken record - immigration, pictured with pints to look like he's a bloke and plays on xenophobic fears rather than coming up with anything positive or useful. He's a parasite.

I agree about the lack of leaders as well. I saw a documentary about Churchill's funeral the other week, and no matter what you think of him and his failings, of which there were many and us in Dundee kicked him out on his arse in the Twenties; he WAS a Prime Minister. This lot are only playing at it.

 

[S2_Blade]

I would like to see Alan Johnson be next labour leader, he would do a great job and restore faith in labour party easily.

 

[blade1889]

The SNP and Labour in government? God no

 

[Frank]

Yeah Farage is a broken record - immigration, pictured with pints to look like he's a bloke and plays on xenophobic fears rather than coming up with anything positive or useful. He's a parasite.

I agree about the lack of leaders as well. I saw a documentary about Churchill's funeral the other week, and no matter what you think of him and his failings, of which there were many and us in Dundee kicked him out on his arse in the Twenties; he WAS a Prime Minister. This lot are only playing at it.

My dad said it best and he probably nicked the saying off of someone else but politicians are just like a group of lads after a bird, they're all different in their approach but they're all out to fuck her none the less.

 

[TheMinsterman]

Not really. As much as I loathe Farage, whilst we're in the EU we can't control EU immigration. The problem is that we need the other parties to be shouting from the rooftops why free movement of EU citizens is inherently a good thing. All she did was be honest and admit that EU immigration is part and parcel of the EU.

Surely it's the case that we can't control the numbers coming directly per se in the sense of denying people the right to enter from the EU, but what is preventing us from decreasing the incentive to come here through legislation? Not exclusionary ones either, just ones that make it more difficult to hire foreign labour en masse on exploitative contracts because it's cheap etc. The focus seems to be on the number coming in and how we can't literally stop them at the border because we're part of the EU, surely despite being a member there's methods to make us a less desirable destination whilst equally improving British worker's rights and opportunities too within the EU?

 

[Alty]

Surely it's the case that we can't control the numbers coming directly per se in the sense of denying people the right to enter from the EU, but what is preventing us from decreasing the incentive to come here through legislation? Not exclusionary ones either, just ones that make it more difficult to hire foreign labour en masse on exploitative contracts because it's cheap etc. The focus seems to be on the number coming in and how we can't literally stop them at the border because we're part of the EU, surely despite being a member there's methods to make us a less desirable destination whilst equally improving British worker's rights and opportunities too within the EU?

It's very, very difficult to make legislation that makes a clear separation between EU nationals and everyone else. Frankly, we're already on slightly ropey legal ground with some of our practices. And that's just to stop a small number of EU undesirables at the border. The bottom line is the general consensus is that EU nationals should be treated in the same way as own country nationals. If we make any attempt to diverge from this I strongly suspect the Commission will infract us.

 

[Ellis]

It's very, very difficult to make legislation that makes a clear separation between EU nationals and everyone else. Frankly, we're already on slightly ropey legal ground with some of our practices. And that's just to stop a small number of EU undesirables at the border. The bottom line is the general consensus is that EU nationals should be treated in the same way as own country nationals. If we make any attempt to diverge from this I strongly suspect the Commission will infract us.

To be fair, we do actually have reasonable amount of scope to with economically inactive EU citizens. After the first 3 months of unconditional entry states do have the ability to limit access to social benefits and a conditional right of access. Measures can be adopted in these circumstances (subject to proportionality tests). However, in relation to those who are economically active it's extremely hard for a state to justify both direct and indirect discriminative measures against EU citizens.