General Election 2015

[Pliny Harris]

Feeling the pain of the Lib Dems leaving already when one of the golden nugget Tory pledges is now scrapping the Human Rights Act. There were no chance of me voting yellow this time but I'd definitely attribute it to them that the Tories never went through with that first time around. It's another discussion, but I do think 57 LD seats did more than 57 Labour would've hypothetically done against the Tories as crap as it all was.

And yeah, having human rights taken away is one of the basic reasons why a Tory majority is not just summat you can go "nice one democracy, fair play" over.

 

[Alty]

Feeling the pain of the Lib Dems leaving already when one of the golden nugget Tory pledges is now scrapping the Human Rights Act. There were no chance of me voting yellow this time but I'd definitely attribute it to them that the Tories never went through with that first time around. It's another discussion, but I do think 57 LD seats did more than 57 Labour would've hypothetically done against the Tories as crap as it all was.

And yeah, having human rights taken away is one of the basic reasons why a Tory majority is not just summat you can go "nice one democracy, fair play" over.

TBF, and I'm someone who loathes the Tories, you're being a bit disingenuous here. It's not like they're proposing the introduction of widespread torture. "Human right" is a term that's been hijacked. The desire to replace the Human Rights Act with something more sensible is reasonable enough.

 

[Pliny Harris]

TBF, and I'm someone who loathes the Tories, you're being a bit disingenuous here. It's not like they're proposing the introduction of widespread torture. "Human right" is a term that's been hijacked. The desire to replace the Human Rights Act with something more sensible is reasonable enough.

I got that, but a main controversy in having the HRA is how tricky it is to do what you want with your criminals, and foreign criminals on your turf. It's a go-to for Mail-style bile, but ensuring even the biggest scrotes in society are given the same rights is fundamental.

 

[Dave-Vale]

Just found out I now have a UKIP councillor for my area.

 

[Murphy]

Just found out I now have a UKIP councillor for my area.

Won't somebody think of the children?!

 

[Tilbury]

One positive from Thursday.
2010: BNP 564,331 votes in 338 seats.
2015: BNP 1,667 votes in 8 seats.

(I wonder where all those racists went btw)

 

[Alty]

One positive from Thursday.
2010: BNP 564,331 votes in 338 seats.
2015: BNP 1,667 votes in 8 seats.

(I wonder where all those racists went btw)

TBH I suspect a large portion of them stayed at home bemoaning the death of extreme racism in British politics.

The majority of the rest will have gone for UKIP or Labour.

 

[Alty]

I got that, but a main controversy in having the HRA is how tricky it is to do what you want with your criminals, and foreign criminals on your turf. It's a go-to for Mail-style bile, but ensuring even the biggest scrotes in society are given the same rights is fundamental.

What's your specific concern? That we'll deport convicted criminals to not very nice places?

 

[Alty]

I recommend yesterday's Bugle podcast to everyone, btw. John Oliver's incredulity was hilarious.

 

[Bobbin']

I haven't had time to read all the other posts since I last came on so apologies if I'm just repeating others. First of all, really gutted that we're saddled with them for another 5 years. At the next election there will be no blaming 'the mess we inherited from Labour' though, that particular tactic will hold no water and it's one of the campaigning tactics that was instrumental in the Tories winning. The fact that the economy has been improving coupled with unemployment coming down month on month was also decisive I feel. Many people might have told pollsters they were voting Labour, but when they got into that voting booth they thought about how things were Labour left office, thought about the economy improving and put their x in the Tory box.

Regarding the polls, they can't be to blame for the reality not reflecting what they were reporting, they only report what they're told. It's the lying bastards that said they were voting Labour that are to blame. Fucking snakes . I think in future it goes without saying that it would be a foolish politician who thinks that polls necessarily reflect what will happen.

Another thing I think that did for Labour was Miliband himself. His image and people's perceptions of him were always going to be a problem, but I thought over the last few months he'd started to look more like somebody who was capable of being a prime minister, especially given how he performed quite well in the leaders debate. Maybe it was the little trip on the last one with Dimbleby as he exited the stage - 'I'm not voting for a man who can't navigate a 6 inch fucking step without stumbling'. Image problem was also a problem for Brown too and I think his dour persona put people off, that and the New Labour project having run its course and being a shambles.

Scotland too was clearly important, not the loss of so many seats to the SNP, but I think that the Tories constantly hammering home their argument about the control the SNP would exercise over English voters if Labour had any arrangement with them spooked a lot of people.

My main concern now is that Labour will move more to the right. Miliband did move the party a little to the left, nothing major though and I'm worried that they're going to go back.

Congrats to the SNP, I'm really pleased for them and I hope they get the influence they deserve. I'm a bit puzzled as to how they demolished Labour, nearly totally cleaned up in Scotland, yet lost the independence vote. I suppose people voted for them because of their anti-austerity package.

Terrible night for the Lib Dem's, not unexpected. They've got a monumental re-build to undertake.

The night wasn't a total disaster though. The electorate of South Thanet I hail you for removing the snake that is Nigel Farage. Typical that he says he might stand for their leadership again in September.

5 more years

I'm not sure that people necessarily changed their minds from Labour to Tories. It's quite possible that people said they were voting Labour but ended up being amongst the 34% who didn't vote at all. It would make sense as the exit polls told a far different story and are built by people that have definitely voted.

 

[Benito]

If labour say they are the party off the working class,how come they never elect a leader who is from a working class background

 

[Red]

I'm not sure that people necessarily changed their minds from Labour to Tories. It's quite possible that people said they were voting Labour but ended up being amongst the 34% who didn't vote at all. It would make sense as the exit polls told a far different story and are built by people that have definitely voted.

Fair point, it could well have been that.

Ben, they don't say they're the party of the working class, they stopped saying that when they dropped clause 4. If they did say that anyway everybody would laugh at them. They say they're the party of working people now which encapsulates all people who work. The only ties they still have with what they used to be about is their not representing the rich and wealthy.

 

[Alty]

If labour say they are the party off the working class,how come they never elect a leader who is from a working class background

It's a valid point and something the party need to address.

Simon Danczuk, Labour MP: "it feels to me like the party’s been hijacked by a metropolitan elite that have a particular view of the world and they are insistent upon imposing that view on others, and I think it’s eroding the support that we get."

 

[Alty]

Fair point, it could well have been that.

Ben, they don't say they're the party of the working class, they stopped saying that when they dropped clause 4. If they did say that anyway everybody would laugh at them. They say they're the party of working people now which encapsulates all people who work. The only ties they still have with what they used to be about is their not representing the rich and wealthy.

They've made a subtle change in recent years and now claim to be the party of "working people". Which can mean whatever you want it to mean.

I was impressed that Miliband showed some willingness to challenge big business interests, but I think you're going a bit overboard in claiming Labour doesn't represent the rich and wealthy. Under Blair they were talking about how relaxed they were about people getting filthy rich. It was all part of the fallacy that absolutely all of us could get richer and richer and happier and happier without a significant redistribution of wealth.

 

[Red]

I'd agree with him.

 

[Blitzballer]

It's a valid point and something the party need to address.

Simon Danczuk, Labour MP: "it feels to me like the party’s been hijacked by a metropolitan elite that have a particular view of the world and they are insistent upon imposing that view on others, and I think it’s eroding the support that we get."

I love that guys wife. Proper milf

 

[Red]

They've made a subtle change in recent years and now claim to be the party of "working people". Which can mean whatever you want it to mean.

I was impressed that Miliband showed some willingness to challenge big business interests, but I think you're going a bit overboard in claiming Labour doesn't represent the rich and wealthy. Under Blair they were talking about how relaxed they were about people getting filthy rich. It was all part of the fallacy that absolutely all of us could get richer and richer and happier and happier without a significant redistribution of wealth.

Which can mean whatever you want it to mean. That's right, the ambiguity of it is probably why they made their change. Yes, after I posted I realised that did and does still pander to the mega rich. I feel Miliband's policies were at least some kind of effort to redistribute wealth.

Is anyone else experience the forum running slowly or is it my internet?

 

[Stevencc]

Tories are slowing down our internet already, e-austerity bastards!

 

[The Alex]

It's been slow for me the past few evenings, sometimes I can't even get onto it

 

[Stevencc]

It's been slow for me the past few evenings, sometimes I can't even get onto it

Ssshh, you are ruining my already ropey joke.

 

[Red]

Tories are slowing down our internet already, e-austerity bastards!

Haha, brilliant!

 

[Pyeman]

Congrats to the SNP, I'm really pleased for them and I hope they get the influence they deserve. I'm a bit puzzled as to how they demolished Labour, nearly totally cleaned up in Scotland, yet lost the independence vote. I suppose people voted for them because of their anti-austerity package.

I had the same thought, until someone at work made a very good point.

In the referendum, 45% of the vote was for independence, compared to 55% against.

In the GE, all 45% of the yes voters would back SNP, whereas the 55% of no voters were split between the other parties.

In the past, the majority of the 55% would go Labour (in reality it was probably an even higher proportion), but with the decline in Labour support, there was no one unified opposition to the 45% of Scottish folk who favour independence.

 

[AFCB_Mark]

Cross section of stuff in the Indie, found this relevant to some...

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices...nder-that-so-many-of-us-are-shy-10236544.html

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

This is quite interesting. I find that on Facebook, it's much more right wing, stuff about benefit scroungers etc and Twitter much more left wing. I presume it's because I control my twitter feed much more. I only follow people I want to listen to. Facebook is much more a social group of friends, family and acquaintances which would be naturally more varied.

That makes sense because I don't use Facebook any more. I also use Tumblr on and off, which takes social justice warriordom to levels that would probably make even Ian cringe.

 

[TractorBoys]

And yeah, having human rights taken away is one of the basic reasons why a Tory majority is not just summat you can go "nice one democracy, fair play" over.

A nonsense statement.

And as for bit in bold, you can, and you will. Speak up all you like (it will do no good). democracy has decided and we are Tory for at least another five years.

 

[Modernist]

Labour need to focus on policy, they are too wishy washy, weve seen with UKIP and the SNP that voters need a clear view of policy. If that swivel eyed moron can get almost 4 million people voting for his party then there must be millions more progressive voters waiting to be woken up by labour.

Labour had their chance, people have been royally fooked around during the last 5 years yet they managed to get a majority, incredible how Labour managed to mess it up so badly.

Hopefully with a new leader and hopefully a clear position Labour can build again.

 

[Pliny Harris]

A nonsense statement.

And as for bit in bold, you can, and you will. Speak up all you like (it will do no good). democracy has decided and we are Tory for at least another five years.

Yes sir no sir of course sir.

What a load of predictable dross. I'm pinning that post up on the wall of the virtual OFF lefty headquarters.

 

[Modernist]

Yes sir no sir of course sir.

What a load of dross. I'm pinning that post up on the wall of the virtual OFF lefty headquarters.

was that directed at my post.

 

[TractorBoys]

Yes sir no sir of course sir.

What a load of predictable dross. I'm pinning that post up on the wall of the virtual OFF lefty headquarters.

Go right ahead. You have five years to kill. Bad luck, sir.

 

[Murphy]

Is it a democracy though? I know a lot has been made of the FPTP system but it surely can't be right that near enough 4 million people have voted for UKIP, or going on 1 million for Green and between 5 million people we've ended up with 2 MP's. It may not have affected the fact that the Tories would have gotten in, but it's not right that a shade under 10% of the population and around 12% of the electorate (rough maths, not exact) have voted and have more or less been shafted I'd argue - and I didn't vote for either of those two parties but it's still clear to see how it's outdated and unfair. I watched Question Time last night, and listening to Farage I find it hard to disagree that FPTP is designed for a two party system, and that these days it is simply not fit for purpose.