Hi-Fi Corner - Vinyl, CD, Cassettes and the rest

[Pagnell]

View attachment 5006

As Carel knows, that's my favourite instrument.

 

[Martino Knockavelli]

 

[Martino Knockavelli]

 

[Martino Knockavelli]

 

[Habbinalan]

That one seems to be still for sale - only 69 cents. Do you find lots of interesting vinyl and fishing tackle on US Amazon?

 

[Habbinalan]

 

[Martino Knockavelli]

Why you gotta do me like that. :-(

 

[Habbinalan]

Why you gotta do me like that. :-(

Well, you got a nibble off me before I remembered ......Heavenly 'arps.

 

[Vanni]

Don't have these but I'm so so tempted. I think I can see why some pay very good money to own such wonderful records

 

[Aber gas]

Don't have these but I'm so so tempted. I think I can see why some pay very good money to own such wonderful records

Think I might have the second one down.
I'd like to own them all really.

 

[Habbinalan]

To take my mind off the doom and gloom of world and local politics (also as a distraction/comfort now I've decided to avoid the M25 and Crawley away in a downpour and gain some brownie points), I'm addressing the need to replace my stylus - which actually means replacing the Elys 2 cartridge. All guidance gratefully received. As expected, I've potentially opened a whole can of worms.

Option 1: No Change

I can get the Rega Elys 2 rebuilt for £85 or get a new one for under £120.

Option 2: Upgrade with Rega

I can move to a Rega Exact for £255 and each rebuild (no replaceable stylus) will cost £194. I'm not at all sure how much better they'll be, bearing in mind the limitations of the rest of the system.

Option 3: Move on from Rega
,
The world is my oyster, provided I stick to moving coils. One of the Ortofons looks a safe choice, depending on how much I spend but most choices involve messing with arm height and using spacers. Lost already.

Option 4: Move on from Moving Coils

I don't know if my Denon PMA-707 amp will cope with the lower outputs of Moving Magnet cartridges. The PMA actually means Pre Main Amp and the input sensitivity is given as: 2.5mV (MM), 150mV (line), Does that confirm my doubts or does the "MM" mean that there may be suitable compatible cartridges?

My Rega Fono Mini pre-amp is apparently no help.

So that looks like I'd essentially be moving on to a new system (or at least a new amp - the old one is almost 30 years old) if I were to hunger after the next level of cartridge.

Conclusions

None yet. I ventured on some of the audiophile boards for some research but I think I'll need to refine my question before they can be more of a help than a hindrance. I lean towards options 1 or 2 at the moment but am beginning to consider what might be my dream system, starting from scratch, before the hearing goes sufficiently through old age for it not to be an issue. Perhaps someone will start a thread on that one day.

 

[Vanni]

Alan, if I may -
The Elys 2 isn't a moving coil design, it's a moving magnet cartridge, and your Rega Fono pre-amp* can only take moving magnet carts, so I think you're switching MC and MM around. So, this means that you can't go for Moving Coil design, unless it's a High Output MC, like the Denon DL-110, but there are other options if you want to go down this route.

*your Denon amp doesn't come into equation since you have a pre-amp. In fact, 99% of amps can only take MM so that's why people go for a phono pre-amp that accepts both MC and MM.

As for the Elys, and whether you should rebuilt it, that's entirely up to you. If you're happy with the sound then yes why not, in fact I would say that you don't need to go for the Rega Exact. But do check how much time you're going to spend without your cart. This is the main reason I prefer carts w/replaceable stylii, because after all the price of a new stylus is very close to the cost of a new cart.

I'll get back to you after I check out your deck's tonearm height and suitable cartridges (to avoid messing around with spacers).

ps - Hmm, the Rega carts are all 14mm in height so that will be a bit of a problem.

 

[Habbinalan]

Alan, if I may -
The Elys 2 isn't a moving coil design, it's a moving magnet cartridge, and your Rega Fono pre-amp* can only take moving magnet carts, so I think you're switching MC and MM around. So, this means that you can't go for Moving Coil design, unless it's a High Output MC, like the Denon DL-110, but there are other options if you want to go down this route.

*your Denon amp doesn't come into equation since you have a pre-amp. In fact, 99% of amps can only take MM so that's why people go for a phono pre-amp that accepts both MC and MM.

As for the Elys, and whether you should rebuilt it, that's entirely up to you. If you're happy with the sound then yes why not, in fact I would say that you don't need to go for the Rega Exact. But do check how much time you're going to spend without your cart. This is the main reason I prefer carts w/replaceable stylii, because after all the price of a new stylus is very close to the cost of a new cart.

I'll get back to you after I check out your deck's tonearm height and suitable cartridges (to avoid messing around with spacers).

Correct. I got my MCs and MMs mixed. Now the Denon PMA-707 spec makes sense.

Since I'm flush enough, I'll consider getting the Elys rebuilt. If I upgrade, it would serve as a backup and it will also give me a steer/baseline as to how my system might perform as I vary other elements.

Edit: That now looks like a waste of money, as all the comments I have seen suggest that the Exact and the Ortofons, from Blue to Black, are much better, including on issues like surface noise - which affects a fair bit of my collection. Others suggest that the Exact is less forgiving than some on surface noise but all agree it's a major weakness on the Elys 2.

Looking forward to your steer on MM carts (if any) that might fit the very low tonearm height.

Thanks.

 

[Vanni]

Correct. I got my MCs and MMs mixed. Now the Denon PMA-707 spec makes sense.

Since I'm flush enough, I'll consider getting the Elys rebuilt. If I upgrade, it would serve as a backup and it will also give me a steer/baseline as to how my system might perform as I vary other elements.

Edit: That now looks like a waste of money, as all the comments I have seen suggest that the Exact and the Ortofons, from Blue to Black, are much better, including on issues like surface noise - which affects a fair bit of my collection. Others suggest that the Exact is less forgiving than some on surface noise but all agree it's a major weakness on the Elys 2.

Looking forward to your steer on MM carts (if any) that might fit the very low tonearm height.

Thanks.

Truth be told, I'm not a big fan of the Elys but only because I don't like the way it sounds (IMO it is a bit dull), and overpriced. Nothing to do with surface noise or what many consider it's major drawback - Inner Groove Distortion. But then again, I take what a lot of others say with a pinch of salt. Case in point, I've read many times on how much one of my carts (Ortofon Super OM10) exhibits IGD, and yet I have never heard any IGD with mine. Thing is that the tonearm is as important as the cart and cart alignment so no one has the same experiences. Re. surface noise, the Ortofons pick up more surface noise than other carts too, but it's not that big a deal to me.

Should you go with the Ortofons, you'd need at least a 3mm spacer as all their carts (the OM and the 2M series) are 17mm+. Then there's also the little problem of proper alignment which takes quite a while to get right esp. the first time.

PS all the carts that I had in mind are 16-18 mm. I'm sorry Alan but it's time for spacers or staying with Rega carts, but there's a wealth of info on the web re. spacers on Rega decks so it shouldn't be that hard.

Another possibility is buying used. Some people have got absolutely no patience with carts and they put 'em on ebay after only spinning 5 records or so, without waiting for the cartridge to break in (roughly 30-50 hours) and see if they like it better or not.

 

[Habbinalan]

Truth be told, I'm not a big fan of the Elys but only because I don't like the way it sounds (IMO it is a bit dull), and overpriced. Nothing to do with surface noise or what many consider it's major drawback - Inner Groove Distortion. But then again, I take what a lot of others say with a pinch of salt. Case in point, I've read many times on how much one of my carts (Ortofon Super OM10) exhibits IGD, and yet I have never heard any IGD with mine. Thing is that the tonearm is as important as the cart and cart alignment so no one has the same experiences. Re. surface noise, the Ortofons pick up more surface noise than other carts too, but it's not that big a deal to me.

Should you go with the Ortofons, you'd need at least a 3mm spacer as all their carts (the OM and the 2M series) are 17mm+. Then there's also the little problem of proper alignment which takes quite a while to get right esp. the first time.

Thanks again. I'll read up more on the Exact and see what folk say about the alternatives before I seek out a chance to listen to some options.

I'll also update my cleaning regime.

 

[Vanni]

I was looking at some carts on the bay and stumbled upon this beautiful Sansui deck, with a very decent cart/headshell, and more importantly, looks very well cared for. The guy wants 200 quid, very reasonable I think, and one could always sell the cart/hs and the original dust bug (last time I checked, orig dust bugs were going for silly money). I'm literally powerless whenever I come across a Sansui The fact that my decks have better specs doesn't matter at all

aaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrghhhhhhhhhhhhh! Only 4 hours to go!

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sansui-SR...646531?hash=item4d4e178703:g:NogAAOSwImRYHH8a

 

[Habbinalan]

I was looking at some carts on the bay and stumbled upon this beautiful Sansui deck, with a very decent cart/headshell, and more importantly, looks very well cared for. The guy wants 200 quid, very reasonable I think, and one could always sell the cart/hs and the original dust bug (last time I checked, orig dust bugs were going for silly money). I'm literally powerless whenever I come across a Sansui The fact that my decks have better specs doesn't matter at all

aaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrghhhhhhhhhhhhh! Only 4 hours to go!

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sansui-SR...646531?hash=item4d4e178703:g:NogAAOSwImRYHH8a

At last - a logical reason to head around the M25 to Crawley and Reigate tomorrow.

 

[appletablepenny]

I was looking at some carts on the bay and stumbled upon this beautiful Sansui deck, with a very decent cart/headshell, and more importantly, looks very well cared for. The guy wants 200 quid, very reasonable I think, and one could always sell the cart/hs and the original dust bug (last time I checked, orig dust bugs were going for silly money). I'm literally powerless whenever I come across a Sansui The fact that my decks have better specs doesn't matter at all

aaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrghhhhhhhhhhhhh! Only 4 hours to go!

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sansui-SR...646531?hash=item4d4e178703:g:NogAAOSwImRYHH8a

Did you win it Vanni?

 

[Aber gas]

Vanni, are you Clanseven?

 

[Vanni]

Did you win it Vanni?

Didn't bid on it. Luckily I only saw it with 4 hours to go so I had to make a quick decision. Thankfully, that decision was that I can't afford either the money or the space to buy any Sansui deck I see, esp.when turntables take up a lot of room. I don't want to turn into my mate who can't move around his own house just because it's littered with decks everywhere

Could have been different though had I seen it with seven days to go!

Note to Abers - No I'm not clanseven, because if I were I wouldn't sell it in the first place, and secondly and more importantly, there's no need to push well kept vintage turntables nowadays when there's such a big demand for basically all things vintage

 

[Vanni]

Btw Robin, your Denon cart is also too tall for Alan's Rega tonearm eh? A shame as I think it would be a great match. I think Rega designing such a short cart was only done so it puts people off from going with other carts. The necessary use of spacers for a different cart will surely put some people off.

If only all decks had adjustable tonearm height.

 

[appletablepenny]

Btw Robin, your Denon cart is also too tall for Alan's Rega tonearm eh? A shame as I think it would be a great match. I think Rega designing such a short cart was only done so it puts people off from going with other carts. The necessary use of spacers for a different cart will surely put some people off.

If only all decks had adjustable tonearm height.

I'm sure you are right about the Denon Vanni - I bow to your superior experience / knowledge.

One thing that always put me off a Rega turntable, from reading those forums, was the fact that you bought the thing and then were rather obliged to buy various extra bits of kit to make it better; a new cartridge, the white belt (whatever the fuck difference that made), or a different platter, and a speed-regulating device. All that made me think that the table they were selling was therefore, essentially a sub-optimal product. Either that, or the add-ons are snake-oil, which is a whole other argument I don't want to get into.

It think it's just me; I'm the kind of person who, if able to haggle the price of something down considerably, wonders if I was being taken for a ride in the first place, and I tend to walk away.

 

[appletablepenny]

Anyway, I bought this today, for £1.50. I enjoyed it, it was pleasantly hypnotic. I think Pliny Harris might like it.

 

[Vanni]

I'm sure you are right about the Denon Vanni - I bow to your superior experience / knowledge.

One thing that always put me off a Rega turntable, from reading those forums, was the fact that you bought the thing and then were rather obliged to buy various extra bits of kit to make it better; a new cartridge, the white belt (whatever the fuck difference that made), or a different platter, and a speed-regulating device. All that made me think that the table they were selling was therefore, essentially a sub-optimal product. Either that, or the add-ons are snake-oil, which is a whole other argument I don't want to get into.

It think it's just me; I'm the kind of person who, if able to haggle the price of something down considerably, wonders if I was being taken for a ride in the first place, and I tend to walk away.

My superior knowledge? Your audio-related knowledge/experience is on a par with mine I'd think. Believe me, I'm no expert.

Perhaps I didn't make myself clear about your Denon cart. I thought perhaps you might have owned a Rega before (as after all, Rega's are quite common here) and whether you had experience with replacing the cart on one of their decks. But in the meantime I did some googling and found out that the Denon cart's height is close to 18mm so that doesn't make it suitable for Alan's Rega either.

You're right on the Rega's upgrades. I'm afraid I can't tell you what changing the belt or platter does because I've never owned a Rega. My dad did have a couple though but I was too young then, so I don't know if this upgrade thing with Regas is a recent thing or not. I also have no idea why some turntables (and not just the Regas) need a speed regulating box. So I'm with you re. belts/platters etc. The only upgrade option that I look forward to on any type and brand of turntable is the replaceable tonearm and nothing else, and mainly because sometimes it's more cost effective to replace a whole arm than taking it to a repair shop for re-wiring when something goes wrong with it's internal wiring.

btw - nice find for only 1.50 there The cover looks to be in decent shape too.

 

[Habbinalan]

Update.

I sort of knew where I was going with the Rega when I bought it - tied in to a supplier for what was probably as good as I'll get in terms of turntable and especially tonearm, so the rest of the system would eventually need to catch up. I also liked buying British made. Although I have seen various positive forum comments on the joys of fitting Denon and Ortofon cartridges as upgrades, so plenty have managed it, it's not for me.

I get no joy from "messing around" to get the best performance from my cars, cameras, sound system or much else in life. Worse than that (or better?), my purchase decisions tend to swing from usually conservative to occasionally impetuous. As a result, I've enjoyed driving/riding an AJS 250, a (previously my hairdresser's) white Renault 5 hot hatch and an Alfa between my more boring Mini Van, VW Beetle, various solid Renaults, diesel Peugots and diesel Toyotas, culminating in the current Toyota Yaris.

The Rega was equivalent to my Alfa indulgence, so (following your valued inputs and further research) I'll be going down the Rega Exact route and reporting back. However, this thread (and a weekend not following the U's) has stirred me from my reverie and stimulated some spending. I'm getting some new speakers and I've ordered some new storage and sleeves for the discs that I've been buying over recent years - so I'm also going to be doing some cleaning and general tidying of the confused mess that is my CD, cassette and LP collection.

 

[appletablepenny]

No, never had a Rega. I got outbid on a few some years ago - Planar 2 or 3 I think.

I have to say, I've never noticed problems with speed regulation on any of my turntables, though I suppose it would have to be a fairly big issue for me to be able to hear it.

Again, on the audio forums, a lot of people swear by direct drives, and wouldn't have a belt drive because of speed issues. I've only ever had belts though, so couldn't say. Sansuis are DD aren't they?

I did briefly consider upgrading my tonearm. I rang some hi-fi upgrader, who told me that the Thorens tonearm arm was "so bad" that he threw them away when he bought the tables to upgrade. He then tried to sell me a Rega arm upgrade for about £400, which was £300 more than I paid for the table. He lost me with the Thorens tonearm comment, as you can flog them all day on Ebay for £50, more with the headshell.

 

[Vanni]

Alan - I get the sleeves from this guy who runs SMS Tech, a small business who have produced a couple of turntables, but also produce upgrades for Linn and Rega decks. They're unbranded Nagaoka sleeves therefore cheaper. I've also got some branded ones and as far as I can tell they're exactly the same. Here's the website but he's on Ebay too.

http://srm-tech.co.uk/epages/4c0089...8923-2265-416e-a207-cc9dd8b06028/Products/NS1

Yes 80's, my two Sansui's are DD's. As for Direct Drives vs Belt Driven, I think I slightly prefer DD's but I have belt drives too. I'm comfortable with both types, just as long as they're well made, and there are several examples of well made DD's and BD's. Just like there are several not so good DD's and BD's. However, most audiophiles want nothing to do with DD's and only regard BD's as audiophile standard. Which is a load of crap as a well made DD has better specs than a BD, esp in the wow and flutter dept, and unfortunately for me I'm sensitive to wow. In fact, I had a couple of BD's that I really liked but had to sell as they suffered from w&f.

 

[Habbinalan]

New Kef speakers and Rega Exact cartridge arrived and installed.

Some of the better cared for vinyl lined up for the evening, at least until Barrow kick-off.

Martin Carthy, Sweet Wivelsfield, is currently proving that all seems well and I can relax. Wife was shocked that I am finally considering life without my Wharfedale Dentons - I've had them as long as she's known me and it was our Ruby Wedding Anniversary this year.

Shearwater will be next up before I look out the Ruts and Dead Kennedys.

 

[appletablepenny]

Ooh, nice. I found that LP at a car boot for 50p, one of my better scores.

 

[Vanni]

Ahh, so that's why Alan's missing tonight Well done on those Kef's