Hollywood announce war on Trump SAG Awards turns into a night-long protest

[Ian_Wrexham]

I've never heard that one before, if what you're telling me is true then that is terrible what the Americans did back then especially as Jewish people are genuinely peaceful people and no threat to anyone, but this is now and you must see that this is a completely different case with Islam as it is not a peaceful religion and all you have to do is look at what is happening in places like Germany and Sweden to see what it brings, German and Swedish women getting raped and brutally murdered for a start.

Don't get me wrong I'm all for taking in women and young child refugees as long as they pose no threats, I just can't trust the men though.

In the first third of the twentieth century, there was a wave of nationalist violence against Jews across Europe - and indeed in other places such as the Ottoman Empire. There were hundreds of waves of violence against Jews in the Ukraine and Russia, and economic exclusion of Jews in Poland and Romania - leaving hundreds of thousands homeless and millions destitute - even before the persecution of Jews in Germany started.

The violence and instability - driven in economic upheaval as Russia transitioned from a feudal to capitalist economy and political repression to quell an increasingly rebellious working class - led to massive Jewish emigration from the Russian Empire and Eastern Europe to Western Europe and America.

The new migrants - impoverished refugees mainly - settled together in working class districts of London - like the East End and Tottenham - turning them into Yiddish-speaking, poverty riddled ghettos.

A small minority of Jews brought radical political leanings to the West. In the first decades of the twentieth century, Jewish anarchist immigrants from the Russian Empire perpetrated two acts of violence against the state in London - one in Tottenham, one in Mile End. Both of these incidents stoked xenophobia and anti-immigrant sentiment.

After the Russian Revolution, this sentiment increased. Most of the revolutionary groups had among them prominent Jews and the reactionary elements in the civil war were rabidly antisemitic.

The perception of the Russian Revolution as Jewish (antisemitic nonsense, but reflective of the fact that many Jews, being among the most marginalised people in Russia, supported revolutionary groups) - coupled with a wave of mass migration led to the sentiment that Jews were a threat to British people's way of life. America had its Red Scare at the same time.

Churchill wrote an essay in the 1920s differentiating good "national Jews" from "international" or "terrorist" jews (it's called "Zionism versus Bolshevism" but the only links I can find to it are on neo-nazi sites I'm not going to link to).

So yeah, in the 1930s, people would have said Judaism was a violent and revolutionary tendancy and turning refugees back at the US border to almost certain death was necessary for its security. Have a read of any of the immigration debates in Hansard (searchable online) to see people making exactly those arguments.

It was bollocks then and its bollocks now.

 

[Carver]

In the first third of the twentieth century, there was a wave of nationalist violence against Jews across Europe - and indeed in other places such as the Ottoman Empire. There were hundreds of waves of violence against Jews in the Ukraine and Russia, and economic exclusion of Jews in Poland and Romania - leaving hundreds of thousands homeless and millions destitute - even before the persecution of Jews in Germany started.

The violence and instability - driven in economic upheaval as Russia transitioned from a feudal to capitalist economy and political repression to quell an increasingly rebellious working class - led to massive Jewish emigration from the Russian Empire and Eastern Europe to Western Europe and America.

The new migrants - impoverished refugees mainly - settled together in working class districts of London - like the East End and Tottenham - turning them into Yiddish-speaking, poverty riddled ghettos.

A small minority of Jews brought radical political leanings to the West. In the first decades of the twentieth century, Jewish anarchist immigrants from the Russian Empire perpetrated two acts of violence against the state in London - one in Tottenham, one in Mile End. Both of these incidents stoked xenophobia and anti-immigrant sentiment.

After the Russian Revolution, this sentiment increased. Most of the revolutionary groups had among them prominent Jews and the reactionary elements in the civil war were rabidly antisemitic.

The perception of the Russian Revolution as Jewish (antisemitic nonsense, but reflective of the fact that many Jews, being among the most marginalised people in Russia, supported revolutionary groups) - coupled with a wave of mass migration led to the sentiment that Jews were a threat to British people's way of life. America had its Red Scare at the same time.

Churchill wrote an essay in the 1920s differentiating good "national Jews" from "international" or "terrorist" jews (it's called "Zionism versus Bolshevism" but the only links I can find to it are on neo-nazi sites I'm not going to link to.

So yeah, in the 1930s, people would have said Judaism was a violent and revolutionary tendancy and turning refugees back at the US border was necessary for its security. Have a read of any of the immigration debates in Hansard (searchable online) to see people making exactly those arguments.

It was bollocks then and its bollocks now.

Ok fine we'll let them in then, but they should HAVE TO live our way of life and not the evil barbaric backward dark age way that is Islam. Practising a religion that encourages murder, violence and hatred should be made illegal and condemned as much as we condemn fascism like the Nazis, because that's what Islam is really. You just have to look at Islamic run countries in the middle east to see this.

 

[Carver]

 

[sl1k]

 

[Abertawe]

Carver seeing as though you're from the area, I'm wondering how you view the muslims that travelled to Carlisle on both of the occasions your town was under water? When your OAPs were stuck in their houses, many with their houses ruined & the general misery that coincides with a flood.


http://www.itv.com/news/border/2016-10-08/muslim-group-return-to-help-cumbria-flood-victims/

 

[Carver]

Carver seeing as though you're from the area, I'm wondering how you view the muslims that travelled to Carlisle on both of the occasions your town was under water? When your OAPs were stuck in their houses, many with their houses ruined & the general misery that coincides with a flood.


http://www.itv.com/news/border/2016-10-08/muslim-group-return-to-help-cumbria-flood-victims/

These guys are terrific and wonderful people doing what they're doing and I thank them, I don't know how seriously those guys take their religion but this doesn't mean we should turn a blind eye on what its text demands from them, because is this supposed to make me feel guilty whenever I criticize a religion like Islam in which its book strongly tells it's followers to brutally kill people who don't believe in it?

If anything this just goes to show that these people can have a heart and be good human beings, so why must they believe in an evil backward religion? And why must we accept it? Makes no bloody sense.

 

[Ian_Wrexham]

These guys are terrific and wonderful people doing what they're doing and I thank them, I don't know how seriously those guys take their religion but this doesn't mean we should turn a blind eye on what its text demands from them, because is this supposed to make me feel guilty whenever I criticize a religion like Islam in which its book strongly tells it's followers to brutally kill people who don't believe in it?

If anything this just goes to show that these people can have a heart and be good human beings, so why must they believe in an evil backward religion? And why must we accept it? Makes no bloody sense.

Yeah, Islam is a relgion of hatred. To pull a quote without context from the Qu'ran

But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

Oh, no, hang on, that's from Luke in the New Testament.

All religions have holy books that advocate all sorts of nonsense. Perhaps it's better to consider how religious minorities in the Islamic world were historically treated. This is a good starting point - largely focusing on the treatment of Jews in the Islamic world.

http://jewdas.org/the-real-history-of-jewish-muslim-relations/

 

[Abertawe]

These guys are terrific and wonderful people doing what they're doing and I thank them, I don't know how seriously those guys take their religion but this doesn't mean we should turn a blind eye on what its text demands from them, because is this supposed to make me feel guilty whenever I criticize a religion like Islam in which its book strongly tells it's followers to brutally kill people who don't believe in it?

If anything this just goes to show that these people can have a heart and be good human beings, so why must they believe in an evil backward religion? And why must we accept it? Makes no bloody sense.

Are you able to quote these texts you speak of? Perhaps we can then compare to similar quotes in the bible.

Are you religious yourself? I'm not, I believe these belief systems to be utter bollox. So when I read rubbish be it in the bible, quran or what have you I just think meh, it's all complete cobblers. If you're not religious why would you pay credence to something that has been proven time & time again not to be true?

You're hatred imo is misdirected. You should concentrate on the politics that gives a breeding ground and subsequent encouragement that allows this evil death cult to prosper. The people concerned have killed far more muslims than they have western people.

 

[Carver]

Are you able to quote these texts you speak of? Perhaps we can then compare to similar quotes in the bible.

Are you religious yourself? I'm not, I believe these belief systems to be utter bollox. So when I read rubbish be it in the bible, quran or what have you I just think meh, it's all complete cobblers. If you're not religious why would you pay credence to something that has been proven time & time again not to be true?

You're hatred imo is misdirected. You should concentrate on the politics that gives a breeding ground and subsequent encouragement that allows this evil death cult to prosper. The people concerned have killed far more muslims than they have western people.

I don't talk about my own personal religious beliefs to people but what I will say is that Christianity is the religion that the Western world grew from and got many of its ideals. If it was any other major religion like Islam or Hinduism then we'd likely be living in a shithole.

How often do you ever get Christian terrorism in this day and age? You may get the odd lone nutjob do something every once in a while, but with Islamic terrorism you get whole organisations of terrorism wreaking havoc on such a devastating scale everyday. The two don't compare!

As for the politics that gives a death cult like Isis a breeding ground, well that started when leaders like Barack Obama decided to arm Muslim rebels who they didnt even know with military grade weapons to start their uprisings. Libya, Syria and Iraq all in turmoil thanks to that awful decision.

 

[sl1k]

Carver I'd really recommend you look further a field and broaden the range of your info consumption. Like a caricature of paul-watson alex-jones and the like atm.

 

[Stevencc]

He's a devoted "centrist", broadening his range is out of the question.

 

[Abertawe]

I don't talk about my own personal religious beliefs to people but what I will say is that Christianity is the religion that the Western world grew from and got many of its ideals. If it was any other major religion like Islam or Hinduism then we'd likely be living in a shithole.

You've just proven you haven't got a clue what you're talking about. Shithole Islam was producing mathematical equations as far back as almost a millennia ago that you wouldn't be able to solve today with a smart phone at your disposal. I could draw examples from theology, physics, chemistry, metaphysics, astronomy or how Nasiraddin Tusi cracked evolution 600 years before Darwin be it'd be a waste of time on a trolling mofo like you.

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

You've just proven you haven't got a clue what you're talking about. Shithole Islam was producing mathematical equations as far back as almost a millennia ago that you wouldn't be able to solve today with a smart phone at your disposal. I could draw examples from theology, physics, chemistry, metaphysics, astronomy or how Nasiraddin Tusi cracked evolution 600 years before Darwin be it'd be a waste of time on a trolling mofo like you.

If you're going to use an idea as rudimentary as his then you might as well credit the fucking Babylonians instead.

 

[Carver]

You've just proven you haven't got a clue what you're talking about. Shithole Islam was producing mathematical equations as far back as almost a millennia ago that you wouldn't be able to solve today with a smart phone at your disposal. I could draw examples from theology, physics, chemistry, metaphysics, astronomy or how Nasiraddin Tusi cracked evolution 600 years before Darwin be it'd be a waste of time on a trolling mofo like you.

Ok lets all migrate to the middle east then and join their wonderful civilised world.

 

[smat]

I don't talk about my own personal religious beliefs to people but what I will say is that Christianity is the religion that the Western world grew from and got many of its ideals. If it was any other major religion like Islam or Hinduism then we'd likely be living in a shithole.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Guns-Germs-Steel-history-everybody/dp/0099302780

You should give this a go, Carver! Very interesting account about how the 'Western world grew', as you put it.

 

[Ian_Wrexham]

I don't talk about my own personal religious beliefs to people but what I will say is that Christianity is the religion that the Western world grew from and got many of its ideals. If it was any other major religion like Islam or Hinduism then we'd likely be living in a shithole.

Hinduism has had a well-developed concept of human rights for thousands of years before Western philosophers began to think about those questions. The Empires of classical India abolished the death penalty and torture and established a proto-welfare state.

The Islamic conquest of much of the classical world between 650 and 1100 led to a flourishing of arts and sciences. Not just for Muslims, but for Jews and Christians in conquered lands (the Jewish Golden Age in Spain flourished largely because of the caliphate). Things were grimmer for Zoroastrians - especially once they got relegated from dhimmi to kuffar and lost the civil rights that other minority religious groups enjoyed. Similarly, it practiced slavery - albeit to a vastly lesser degree than would later be carried out by Europeans.

Neither of these Empires were benevolent - both owed their wealth and riches to the subjugation of others by force - that's how Empires work.

A tolerant, liberal, pluralist society is not a function of faith, but a function of being prosperous enough that immediate questions of human need are less important. When European countries started looting and enslaving the rest of the world, they were able to develop their own concepts of human rights.

Equally, it's important to note that these rights have never been universally applied - when enlightenment philosophers began to come up with them, they specifically excluded "lesser races" so that slavery might be justified. I think it's valid to view European Empires' conception of "race" as serving a similar function to the Early Islamic Empire's conception of "dhimmi" and "kuffar", or the Hindu caste system. It creates an underclass who can, morally, be exploited by the ruling classes - and provides the engine that drives the wealth of empire.

How often do you ever get Christian terrorism in this day and age? You may get the odd lone nutjob do something every once in a while, but with Islamic terrorism you get whole organisations of terrorism wreaking havoc on such a devastating scale everyday. The two don't compare!

In the 1980s, Israeli-backed Lebanese Christian Militias rampaged across Southern Lebanon massacring Lebanese Shiites and Palestinians. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabra_and_Shatila_massacre

The Ugandan Lord's Resistance Army have waged an insurgency in Uganda for thirty years https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord's_Resistance_Army

In a sense though, terrorism is an act of powerlessness. You don't need to perpetrate terrorist atrocities when you have relative prosperity and the backing of a superpower. The KKK don't need to lynch black Americans when the police murder thousands of them every year and incarcerate millions. But in less developed countries, where there is neither stability or prosperity, Christian militias have been no less willing to commit atrocities.

As for the politics that gives a death cult like Isis a breeding ground, well that started when leaders like Barack Obama decided to arm Muslim rebels who they didnt even know with military grade weapons to start their uprisings. Libya, Syria and Iraq all in turmoil thanks to that awful decision.

Well, yes. Maybe if you used that as your starting point - rather than "Islam is bad", we'd be getting somewhere.

 

[Carver]

Hinduism has had a well-developed concept of human rights for thousands of years before Western philosophers began to think about those questions. The Empires of classical India abolished the death penalty and torture and established a proto-welfare state.

The Islamic conquest of much of the classical world between 650 and 1100 led to a flourishing of arts and sciences. Not just for Muslims, but for Jews and Christians in conquered lands (the Jewish Golden Age in Spain flourished largely because of the caliphate). Things were grimmer for Zoroastrians - especially once they got relegated from dhimmi to kuffar and lost the civil rights that other minority religious groups enjoyed. Similarly, it practiced slavery - albeit to a vastly lesser degree than would later be carried out by Europeans.

Neither of these Empires were benevolent - both owed their wealth and riches to the subjugation of others by force - that's how Empires work.

A tolerant, liberal, pluralist society is not a function of faith, but a function of being prosperous enough that immediate questions of human need are less important. When European countries started looting and enslaving the rest of the world, they were able to develop their own concepts of human rights.

Equally, it's important to note that these rights have never been universally applied - when enlightenment philosophers began to come up with them, they specifically excluded "lesser races" so that slavery might be justified. I think it's valid to view European Empires' conception of "race" as serving a similar function to the Early Islamic Empire's conception of "dhimmi" and "kuffar", or the Hindu caste system. It creates an underclass who can, morally, be exploited by the ruling classes - and provides the engine that drives the wealth of empire.



In the 1980s, Israeli-backed Lebanese Christian Militias rampaged across Southern Lebanon massacring Lebanese Shiites and Palestinians. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabra_and_Shatila_massacre

The Ugandan Lord's Resistance Army have waged an insurgency in Uganda for thirty years https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord's_Resistance_Army

In a sense though, terrorism is an act of powerlessness. You don't need to perpetrate terrorist atrocities when you have relative prosperity and the backing of a superpower. The KKK don't need to lynch black Americans when the police murder thousands of them every year and incarcerate millions. But in less developed countries, where there is neither stability or prosperity, Christian militias have been no less willing to commit atrocities.



Well, yes. Maybe if you used that as your starting point - rather than "Islam is bad", we'd be getting somewhere.

Have you ever seen India? Most of it is like a landfill site and they have no health and safety regulations and they ride on trains by hanging onto the sides and sitting on the top of the trains and in front of it!! Similar things happen in Islamic countries but even worse they are under Sharia Law so for example if you are gay then you are executed and if a woman gets raped then the woman gets executed for getting raped by having to sit in a ditch and get stoned to death. Oh and we have abolished slavery in the West years ago but in Muslim countries it still exists NOW. So do you still defend this?

As for me starting with Islam is bad, well it is and anyone who disagrees has either not ever bothered to research it or they have been brainwashed by the Liberal media funded by Saudi Arabia and George Soros who are controlled by the lizard people.

 

[sl1k]

. . .

 

[SALTIRE]

Like all religions and gods that are created by man, they are flawed. This is a serious question, would the world be better off without them?

 

[Jockney]

Like all religions and gods that are created by man, they are flawed. This is a serious question, would the world be better off without them?

yeah let's discuss that. It's been a few weeks.

 

[sl1k]

No offence Salty my man, but that is the most boring and unproductive conversation in the entire universe.

 

[Carver]

Like all religions and gods that are created by man, they are flawed. This is a serious question, would the world be better off without them?

No because many people need to believe in God, not everyone wants to be an atheist and spend their whole life thinking what the fuck is this all about? Religion is something that will never go away no matter how flawed and silly it may seem to some because for others they need to believe in the hope of an afterlife.

One thing however that should be obvious to everyone is that there is definatly a grand order of things. No way is the universe all just random meaningless shit, there has to be some sort of great intelligence out there that makes everything possible and makes it impossible for our small minds to ever understand.

 

[sl1k]

No because many people need to believe in God

Why? What is it you seek when 'looking for God'?

not everyone wants to be an atheist and spend their whole life thinking what the fuck is this all about?

Do you feel you have the answers by not being an atheist? If you do, how so?

Religion is something that will never go away no matter how flawed and silly it may seem to some because for others they need to believe in the hope of an afterlife.

So the 'need' to have hope via the theory of an afterlife is what drives you to believe what you believe?

One thing however that should be obvious to everyone is that there is definatly a grand order of things. No way is the universe all just random meaningless shit, there has to be some sort of great intelligence out there that makes everything possible and makes it impossible for our small minds to ever understand.

If there is an intelligent design, what are you doing to contribute to it's blue print?

If the answer is nothing, do you actually believe in it? or is it just a bed time story you can snuggle up to under the duvet at night?

 

[SALTIRE]

No because many people need to believe in God, not everyone wants to be an atheist and spend their whole life thinking what the fuck is this all about? Religion is something that will never go away no matter how flawed and silly it may seem to some because for others they need to believe in the hope of an afterlife.

One thing however that should be obvious to everyone is that there is definatly a grand order of things. No way is the universe all just random meaningless shit, there has to be some sort of great intelligence out there that makes everything possible and makes it impossible for our small minds to ever understand.

Why can't we have a country that's free of religion and free from the dogmas they espouse.

Yes there is an order to the universe, I've studied it long enough to personally come to that conclusion, and when we die, we will pass back into the ether amongst all the other atoms, and that's fine by me, I don't need a fucking 'god' to worship to be content with my life and death.

 

[sl1k]

The quality of being dogmatic isn't exclusive to the religious tho, is it Salty? God-less people are just as prone to it, it just manifests in and around different ways. I see it on this forum all the time!

God isn't a fairy tale and/or magic. We exist in his design/system and are governed by its' laws. Not really too different to what you believe in yourself.

 

[Habbinalan]

Have you ever seen India? Most of it is like a landfill site and they have no health and safety regulations and they ride on trains by hanging onto the sides and sitting on the top of the trains and in front of it!! Similar things happen in Islamic countries but even worse they are under Sharia Law so for example if you are gay then you are executed and if a woman gets raped then the woman gets executed for getting raped by having to sit in a ditch and get stoned to death. Oh and we have abolished slavery in the West years ago but in Muslim countries it still exists NOW. So do you still defend this?

As for me starting with Islam is bad, well it is and anyone who disagrees has either not ever bothered to research it or they have been brainwashed by the Liberal media funded by Saudi Arabia and George Soros who are controlled by the lizard people.

aside. Early morning chomp.

Yes, I've seen India - 3 times over the last 10 years. Most of it is far from being like a landfill site, even in the cities and ghettos. Some of the landscapes, communities (farming and urban) and heritage cities/architecture are the most welcoming, beautiful, fascinating and rich in history in the world. The variety of religions and beliefs is mindblowing but they generally get on pretty well until those seeking personal power use or create differences for their own devices.

Some of the driving, and transport more generally, feels pretty hairy and there are extremes of poverty and rich middle class consumerism cheek by jowl in most cities - but I've generally felt comfortable, safer and amongst more "civilised" people and communities than I have found in the likes of most UK city's rougher areas.

Slavery is illegal and exists in the UK as well as being illegal and existing in parts of Africa and the Middle East.

I find the extremes of both christian and moslem feeding into intolerance and agression combined with political power to be the root of much that is wrong in the world.

That's the kind of brainwashing that can happen if you travel with an open mind.

 

[Carver]

. . .

Why? Does the claim that there are lizard people secretly running the world sound a bit daft to you?

 

[silkyman]

Hinduism has had a well-developed concept of human rights for thousands of years before Western philosophers began to think about those questions. The Empires of classical India abolished the death penalty and torture and established a proto-welfare state.

The Islamic conquest of much of the classical world between 650 and 1100 led to a flourishing of arts and sciences. Not just for Muslims, but for Jews and Christians in conquered lands (the Jewish Golden Age in Spain flourished largely because of the caliphate). Things were grimmer for Zoroastrians - especially once they got relegated from dhimmi to kuffar and lost the civil rights that other minority religious groups enjoyed. Similarly, it practiced slavery - albeit to a vastly lesser degree than would later be carried out by Europeans.

Neither of these Empires were benevolent - both owed their wealth and riches to the subjugation of others by force - that's how Empires work.

A tolerant, liberal, pluralist society is not a function of faith, but a function of being prosperous enough that immediate questions of human need are less important. When European countries started looting and enslaving the rest of the world, they were able to develop their own concepts of human rights.

Equally, it's important to note that these rights have never been universally applied - when enlightenment philosophers began to come up with them, they specifically excluded "lesser races" so that slavery might be justified. I think it's valid to view European Empires' conception of "race" as serving a similar function to the Early Islamic Empire's conception of "dhimmi" and "kuffar", or the Hindu caste system. It creates an underclass who can, morally, be exploited by the ruling classes - and provides the engine that drives the wealth of empire.



In the 1980s, Israeli-backed Lebanese Christian Militias rampaged across Southern Lebanon massacring Lebanese Shiites and Palestinians. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabra_and_Shatila_massacre

The Ugandan Lord's Resistance Army have waged an insurgency in Uganda for thirty years https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord's_Resistance_Army

In a sense though, terrorism is an act of powerlessness. You don't need to perpetrate terrorist atrocities when you have relative prosperity and the backing of a superpower. The KKK don't need to lynch black Americans when the police murder thousands of them every year and incarcerate millions. But in less developed countries, where there is neither stability or prosperity, Christian militias have been no less willing to commit atrocities.



Well, yes. Maybe if you used that as your starting point - rather than "Islam is bad", we'd be getting somewhere.

It certainly is a good job there are no Christian terrorists...

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...rror-threat-ira-northern-ireland-bomb-attacks

 

[Carver]

Why? What is it you seek when 'looking for God'?



Do you feel you have the answers by not being an atheist? If you do, how so?



So the 'need' to have hope via the theory of an afterlife is what drives you to believe what you believe?



If there is an intelligent design, what are you doing to contribute to it's blue print?

If the answer is nothing, do you actually believe in it? or is it just a bed time story you can snuggle up to under the duvet at night?

I already said earlier I dont talk about my own religious beliefs to people on the internet, especially on a football forum!

As for an intelligent design, I was just pointing out the obvious that there is a grand order of things. Anyone who can't at least see this is stupid.

 

[Carver]

Why can't we have a country that's free of religion and free from the dogmas they espouse.

Yes there is an order to the universe, I've studied it long enough to personally come to that conclusion, and when we die, we will pass back into the ether amongst all the other atoms, and that's fine by me, I don't need a fucking 'god' to worship to be content with my life and death.

How do you know that when we die our soul/spirit or whatever you want to call it will end completely? You don't know that for sure.