Jen's Brexit Watch

[Cornish Piskie]

I thought I'd start a little thread on the fiasco that is Brexit.

The idea is to keep an eye on the farrago as it unfolds (unravels..?) between now and March. Most contributions will culled from various sources, or news items or just what I pick up from the beating of the tom-toms.

It's not intended to be serious, although the points made may be. Serious Brexit conversation should continue on the dedicated EU Referendum Thread.


"Britain is a forward looking country advancing into the future (Jacob Rees-Mogg)"

Feel free to post relevant light hearted Brexit material.

Hey..... you have to do something to get a smile out of it.

 

[Cornish Piskie]

Gotta love John Rees-Evans the UKIP deserter who once famously claimed he had to prevent a gay donkey from raping his horse.

Apparently, he is going to name his new party "Democrats and Veterans" or D&V for short. I wonder if he knows that in the medical world, this abbreviation is used to diagnose Diarrhoea and Vomiting.

*****​

"It's morally wrong that a single individual is attempting to use his millions to alter the will of millions of everyday Brits" wrote Darren Grimes on the George Soros Affair. Would that be a lecture on the morality of political donations from the same Darren Grimes who accepted a £625'000 "gift" from Vote Leave during the Referendum campaign..? Entirely by coincidence, he then chose to hand it to a data analytics company also linked to Vote Leave. This was something the Official Brexit Campaign could not have done themselves because it would have breached their donations limit.

*****​

Churchill was a pro-european traitor...???

In his famous Zurich speech of 1946, Churchill said, ‘We must build a kind of United States of Europe. The structure of the United States of Europe, if well and truly built, will be such as to make the material strength of a single state less important.. If at first all the States of Europe are not willing or able to join the Union, we must nevertheless proceed to assemble and combine those who will and those who can.’

 

[Blitzballer]

yawn

 

[Cornish Piskie]

yawn

Sorry if I'm keeping you up past your bedtime. But thank you for that intelligent, well thought out response which is welcomed in the spirit it was given.

Good luck with finding something more appropriate to your age and maturity level.

 

[Blitzballer]

Sorry if I'm keeping you up past your bedtime. But thank you for that intelligent, well thought out response which is welcomed in the spirit it was given.

Good luck with finding something more appropriate to your age and maturity level.

 

[Cornish Piskie]

Steve Baker, the Junior Minister in the Dept for Exiting the EU had to make a grovelling apology for claiming in the Commons that civil servants were taking a "glass half full approach to Brexit." When it comes to the value of Sterling, Baker doesn't exactly exude breezy confidence himself. He has amassed a significant shareholding in Glint Pay Ltd, a company set up to soothe the nerves of investors who are getting twitchy about the future. "We felt it was unfair that money is prone to depreciation in ways we have no control over" its website states. "We believe the ready made solution is to buy gold." Baker, who formerly chaired the controversial European Research Project before it was taken over by Jacob Rees-Mogg registered his shareholding in the Register of Members Financial Interests so we are able to see that his stake is, at present, £70'000, and amount that is likely to rise very significantly if Britain exits the EU without a deal.

Best for those inside the Brexit establishment to cover their backside both ways, eh?

 

[Cornish Piskie]

Has anybody noticed the tone of the Remainers comments in the last week or so..? As the released regional assessments lay bare the extent of the damage Brexit will do and as the Japanese serve notice to our businesses, the mood of Leavers is no longer "Brexit will benefit Britain" but is now "When Brexit goes bad it will all be the fault of Remoaners"

The evidence is everywhere but typical is the Twitter page of Lord Digby Jones, the Brexiter businessman. He has spent a week or so now accusing remainers of "Undermining Britain from within" and "Doing Barnier's work for him....... we'll end up with a lousy deal and it will be Remainers who are to blame."

How..? A lousy deal was inevitable from the start because members of a club don't give preferential deals to members who cancel their membership. But Digby and all the other Leaver fantasists continue to insist that they will.

In recent days I have heard a Question Time audience, a Cabinet Minister (Liam Fox) and several phone-in callers accuse Remainers of "Talking Britain Down". Hey, try this: search Twitter for that precise phrase and see how many responses you get. It almost looks like an organised campaign.

This "Talking Britain Down" is a lie that Remainers must challenge. When Brexit fails it will not be our fault and we must not let it become an easy cop-out for Leavers who will naturally struggle to come to terms with the disaster that they voted for, the disaster that will bring misery to themselves and their families.

"Don't blame me. I voted Remain" should become "Don't blame me because you voted Leave."

 

[Cornish Piskie]

Andrew Neil demolishes Tory party lies over Corbyn selling secrets to Communist regimes.

Yet again, the Tories are caught with their pants on fire.

https://politicalscrapbook.net/2018...ies-and-disinformation-against-jeremy-corbyn/


The underlying shame of all this is that the exposure of Tory lies is reduced to a minor story which few will see or read while the lies themselves have already received maximum exposure and are now firmly embedded in a large part of the public consciousness.

 

[Fompous Part]

Jen, I come to this thread daily hoping for a fresh offering of your long-winded, sanctimony-dripping and coma-inducingly dull whinging about Brexit, not your take on the silly Agent Cob non-story.

No one was more delighted than me when you decided that blighting the EU Referendum thread wasn't enough, and that what the forum really needed – nay, craved – was a new thread in which you could effectively talk to yourself on the subject.

But if you're not going to use it properly then, seriously, what's the point? Please try harder. Rees-Mogg has just described May's transition plan as a "perversion of democracy". You should be able to wring at least 1200 words of lumpen, tedious wank out of that. Go!

 

[mowgli]

 

[Stevencc]

Jen, I come to this thread daily hoping for a fresh offering of your long-winded, sanctimony-dripping and coma-inducingly dull whinging about Brexit, not your take on the silly Agent Cob non-story.

No one was more delighted than me when you decided that blighting the EU Referendum thread wasn't enough, and that what the forum really needed – nay, craved – was a new thread in which you could effectively talk to yourself on the subject.

But if you're not going to use it properly then, seriously, what's the point? Please try harder. Rees-Mogg has just described May's transition plan as a "perversion of democracy". You should be able to wring at least 1200 words of lumpen, tedious wank out of that. Go!

 

[Cornish Piskie]

This site needs anybody to say anything on any subject just to keep it alive. As for talking to myself, well, since I last posted three others have obviously read what I write. I've even encouraged Fompous Part to make only his 10th post on this site in two and a half years...!! Wow. With that level of participation on the forum I must have really hit his button...!!

And if my posts are too long for anybody's attention span, let me please direct them to somewhere more appropriate: http://www.twitter.com/

The oldest truth of internet discourse: When somebody can't attack the post, they attack the poster. In attacking me personally, they display the fact that they have no argument.

And so it seems I'm getting my message through. I feel good about that. Thus encouraged, Brexit Watch will continue to highlight the lies, hypocrisy and cant of those who support the biggest crime ever perpetuated by the elderly, on the young of this country.

Feel free to keep replying. Every vile insult, personalised invective and hatred-driven vituperation that you can concoct reflects on you. In short: Is that all you've got..? If it is, then I'm not bothered. You don't scare me. But I'm getting my message over, and that's clearly bothering you. You're the one with a problem here, not me.

Your insults say more about you than they do about me.

And so back to Brexit Watch. After all, that's the subject matter of the thread.

Today's Brexiteer of the day is Theresa May. Our lame-duck Prime Minister has just demanded that the EU must share crime and terrorist data with Post-Brexit UK despite four and a half years ago stating that the UK would not share crime and terrorist data with a post-referendum independent Scotland.

May now says that Brussels must not allow "Rigid institutional restrictions or deep seated ideology to inhibit our co-operation. We must do whatever is most practical and pragmatic in ensuring our collective security".

Contrast that with her statement of October 2013 "The continuing United Kingdom would not be in a position to protect Scottish interests as it does presently. Scotland would be a separate state. It could not share the UK's security and intelligence agencies for reasons of sovereignty and democratic accountability."

 

[Cornish Piskie]

 

[Red]

The Tories' narrative is still that no deal is better than a bad deal. No deal IS a bad deal.

 

[Red]

Sorry if I'm keeping you up past your bedtime. But thank you for that intelligent, well thought out response which is welcomed in the spirit it was given.

Good luck with finding something more appropriate to your age and maturity level.

To be honest he struggles with this sort of stuff. Post a picture of a woman in a bikini and he'll be more enthusiastic.

 

[Cornish Piskie]

To be honest he struggles with this sort of stuff. Post a picture of a woman in a bikini and he'll be more enthusiastic.

Say hello to Suzie. I hope she's just his type.

Getting back on topic.....

It's interesting that after Boris Johnson's poorly received Valentine's Day speech which offered ramblings about carrots, sophomoric jokes about dogging and sex tourism but very little actual Brexit content, you might have thought the Foreign Secretary would join in with the tabloid smear campaign against Jeremy 'Karla' Corbyn.

Yet Johnson has been rather quiet when it comes to speaking out about Jezza's alleged Eastern Bloc links.

Could this have anything to do with embarrassing photos of Bojo rubbing shoulders with Joseph Mifsud, the Maltese professor alleged to be Vladimir Putin's linkman with Donald Trump's presidential campaign diplomat Sergey Nalobin, expelled from Britain in 2015 and son of a former KGB General....?

We can but speculate.

 

[Fompous Part]

Jen, I wasn't trying to "scare" you. Perish the thought! I am a gentle soul at heart and I learnt many moons ago that nothing can deter an unreconciled Remoaner intent on talking down to people with whom he or she disagrees. Facts, logic, common sense, disarming politeness, gentle mockery – all are ineffective.

No, my last post was just a gentle nudge to get you back on track. As you say, you have a vitally important anti-Brexit message to spread (even if you're proselytsing to about 6 people and are 20 months too late) and I feared that the To-Marrow Never Dies fiasco had distracted you. Good to see that normal service has resumed.

But I do have a question: Is the penetrating gaze of Jen's Brexit Watch likely to fix upon some of the sillier things Mr Starmer and Mr Corbyn have said this week? Or is it your plan to only comment on "the biggest crime ever perpetuated by the elderly on the young of this country" when it allows you to gripe about the Tory government?

Anyway, keep up the good work. Between you (Brexit + the Ruskies!) and Red (adject failure to understand the "no deal is better than a bad deal" point), recent contributions to this thread have been a treat for us sad souls who pass the time playing anti-Brexit bingo.

Yours,

Fompous
x

 

[Cornish Piskie]

Thank you for your infinitely better worded but still sadly missing the point reply.

The point of Brexit Watch is to expose, or at the very least bring into the light of day, the ludicrous farce that is Brexit. It's got absolutely nothing to do with balance. It's about exposing Brexit for the folly that it is and the lies, hypocrisy and distortion displayed by the lickspittle toadies who act as the apologists for it.

And it's not only here that I'm doing it, so please don't think Football First has been singled out. I'm active in other areas and so the message does get across in other places..... and yes, there are others like you who think they can howl any form of dissent down..... Attempt to silence dissent while claiming that the EU is "undemocratic". Oh, sweet irony..!!

Just because an ill-informed voting public listened to your lies and deceits is not a "mandate from the people" to stifle all dissent. In a democracy, if the people make a decision that they later find is flawed and was based on untruths, then they have the right to change their mind. And all the time there is still even the faintest flicker of hope that this decision might be reversed... or at the very least, watered down to a reasonable level.....I intend to get that message out by all means at my disposal

Please feel free to comment on my posts. If you can debunk any of the exposes I write, please do so. THAT would be legitimate debate (and by default, democratic) and I'm not afraid of that either. I cut my teeth in the significantly tougher world of student politics on issues such as the Iraq /Afghan War, LGBT Rights and the Feminist Movement. I've gone face to face with bigger and badder than you so please no accusations of "Keyboard Warrior."

Posting online is just the way things are done these days, and happens to fit more comfortably with the constraint of being a housewife living at the far end of the country.

And so Brexit Watch will continue as is. Anybody is free to post with their contributions as long as they are of an anti-Brexit nature. This is, an anti-Brexit thread and makes no apologies for that.. If you want to tell us all about the rainbows and unicorns you believe in, start your own thread.

Discuss the message. Not the messenger.

 

[shane]

I cut my teeth in the significantly tougher world of student politics on issues such as the Iraq /Afghan War, LGBT Rights and the Feminist Movement. I've gone face to face with bigger and badder than you so please no accusations of "Keyboard Warrior."

Fompous Part is no longer the best thing about this thread.

 

[AFCB_Mark]

And so Brexit Watch will continue as is. Anybody is free to post with their contributions as long as they are of an anti-Brexit nature. This is, an anti-Brexit thread and makes no apologies for that.. If you want to tell us all about the rainbows and unicorns you believe in, start your own thread.

And I will point out that this will not be the case. This is a forum and thus an area for discussion as people wish on a given topic, as long as it's civil. There is no restriction on posting only a particular viewpoint in any thread in any section of this forum.

Thanks
Mark

 

[Fompous Part]

The point of Brexit Watch is to expose, or at the very least bring into the light of day, the ludicrous farce that is Brexit. It's got absolutely nothing to do with balance. It's about exposing Brexit for the folly that it is and the lies, hypocrisy and distortion displayed by the lickspittle toadies who act as the apologists for it.

I think “no” would have sufficed as an answer to my question, but thank you for clarifying.

And it's not only here that I'm doing it, so please don't think Football First has been singled out. I'm active in other areas and so the message does get across in other places...

Please convey my sympathies to those other communities.

And, yes, there are others like you who think they can howl any form of dissent down..... Attempt to silence dissent while claiming that the EU is "undemocratic". Oh, sweet irony..!! Just because an ill-informed voting public listened to your lies and deceits is not a "mandate from the people" to stifle all dissent.

I think you should do yourself a favour and spare us the free-speech martyr bollocks. Mockery and personal invective aren’t nice, but they don’t deny your freedom to continue posting. One advantage of online discussion is that it’s literally impossible to talk over people and shout them down. I couldn’t stop you making a self-important arse of yourself even if I wanted to. And I don’t.

Also, you reap what you sow, no? It strikes me that someone who consistently portrays her opponents as a gaggle of deluded thickos probably lacks the moral authority to complain about uncivilized debate. If you want to understand why most of the responses (on this thread and the other) are hostile, perhaps read your own contributions and imagine how they read to someone who doesn’t share your political outlook.

In a democracy, if the people make a decision that they later find is flawed and was based on untruths, then they have the right to change their mind. And all the time there is still even the faintest flicker of hope that this decision might be reversed... or at the very least, watered down to a reasonable level.....I intend to get that message out by all means at my disposal.

In one important respect, you are right. In a genuinely liberal and democratic society, politics is an ongoing conversation. New generations have the liberty to undo or correct the mistakes (real or perceived) of the generations that came before them. Nothing is settled ad infinitum.

So, yes, perhaps one day in the future, when we actually have some lived experience of post-Brexit Britain to draw upon, the public mood will be different. Perhaps the new consensus will be that we were bloody fools to leave and we should do everything in our power to re-join. Perhaps a new government will be elected promising precisely that. Perhaps we’ll have another referendum and a clear majority will vote in favour of crawling back to Jean-Claude Juncker (or whatever third-rate apparatchik has replaced him) with our tails firmly between our legs. If so, fine. I wouldn’t like that outcome, but I would accept its democratic legitimacy.

The “undemocratic” problem we have now is presented by people who want to skip the whole “let’s try to make the best of this and see what happens” stage. People like you, Lord Adonis and Gina Miller, basically. You somehow already know Brexit will be an unmitigated disaster, and you’re determined to stop it before the course of events is given the slightest opportunity to prove you wrong. There is no high-minded democratic principle there. It’s just bad loser special pleading and cynical politicking by a politically overrepresented group of cultural snobs who still haven’t come to terms with losing.

If you want do that, fine. If you want to participate in a sort of anti-democratic politics you would never tolerate if it were deployed against a reform you favoured, then you are at liberty to do so. Bitch, moan, gaslight and be as transparently hypocritical as you please. But the trade-off in a liberal democracy is that bounders like me are at liberty to take the Michael, and point out what a massive tosser you’re being.

Respectfully yours,

Fompous

 

[Etty Abrics]

I for one, am fascinated by 'Brexit Watch' and cannot wait for the next scintillating expose

 

[The Paranoid Pineapple]

welcome back scumbag!

i don't think this thread is your finest hour really (you're being a massive dick, quite honestly, and your arguments are full of flaws) but (kinda?) nice to have you back all the same

 

[Fompous Part]

Who are you and why are you calling me a scumbag?* Seems impolite. I've done nothing to you. Keep your comments to yourself, you insolent fruit.

*I assume this is aimed at me. If it's aimed at one of the other reprobates here (that Etty Abrics does seem a bad 'un), my apologies.

 

[Red]

You're correct about an ill-informed public voting Jen. I wonder how many uneducated people who voted to leave had ever even heard of the single market or customs union before they voted?. I bet a lot of them had never even voted for anything in their lives before. For them it was only ever about reducing the number of Johnny foreigners in the country.

 

[Cornish Piskie]

Wow..... I've really stirred up a hornets nest here. On the one hand that's not a bad thing because it shows that cages are being rattled. On the other hand, it's somewhat tiresome when that individual is probably a regular user, employing a hitherto dormant sock puppet account (see the length of time the FP account has been in existence and the tiny amount of posts, which suddenly escalate when the owner wants to attack a thread but knows he doesn't have a sustainable argument. Classic sock puppet tactic) to spam the thread in an effort to derail it. It's an old internet tactic...... draw the opponent into a personal squabble thus ensuring that the message gets lost amid a welter of spam.

I now admonish myself for falling for it up to now. This sort of person uses the "Drag them down to your level and beat them with experience" ploy. I feel quite sorry for him. Unable to argue his corner he employs the only tactic he has a talent for.

The alias known as Fompous Part has yet to debunk a single expose that I've written. Perhaps he doesn't know how. Perhaps all he knows is how to howl down a voice he doesn't like the sound of. Any chimp can resort that sort of behaviour. Or am I being offensive to chimpanzees..?

I'm heartened by Mark's statement: "This is a forum and thus an area for discussion as people wish on a given topic." It means this thread isn't going to be pulled by site management. Good.

So, regardless of the attempted bullying, personal abuse and spamming, I'll keep on digging for those examples of failure, hypocrisy, cant and internal conflict that expose the dogs breakfast that is Brexit. At least I'm not scared to use my own name and account to do it.

 

[Fompous Part]

Yep, I previously posted under another account, one that was deleted at my request last year. In hindsight I shouldn't have made the request. But I did. And since it's not possible to resurrect that account, an alternate was required.

Fortunately one already existed, one I created ages ago when various people were having fun with duplicate accounts. I briefly considered joining in but then thought better of it, hence there being no activity on the account until recently.

I used to post here daily and the fact that I was recognised by a regular within 2-3 posts should indicate that I was hardly busting a gut to remain incognito. My posting style is nothing to write home about but it's more distinctive than most, and I've made no effort to change it.

I don't know whether I still qualify as a sock puppet. I don't care either.

I'll say this: I think the 1FF old-timers would attest that in my previous incarnation I normally tried to debate this stuff in a civil and good-humoured way. No doubt I fell short at times (as we all do when debating politics), but few people, I suspect, would accuse of me of lacking debating skills and a detailed point of view on this subject.

What's changed in the last 12 months is I've lost patience with some Remain voters, a type represented by you atrociously well. Remainers who accept the result but grumble about the government making a pig's ear of the negotiation? Fine. I share most of their concerns. People who relentlessly moan, patronise and agitate in the hope of reversing a democratic decision they don't like? I can't be arsed with them. Not anymore. Being rude to them won't change their minds, but being civil won't either. Being rude to them is at least satisfying.

It's indicative of your hilariously inflated sense of self-importance that you mistake this for some malign motive to silence your message. Please understand that Remoaners like you are a dime-a-dozen online. What you say and how you say it isn't going to convert anyone. You'll get a few sympathetic 'likes' from people who already share your outlook, but on the Leave side you're more likely to harden resolve than weaken it. People like you and Tony Blair and John Major are actually a tremendous boon to EU-scepticism. A gift that keeps giving.

So, please, carry on. Spread your message. I'll leave you alone now. I made the only substantive point I wish to make in my last post, and following your reply it remains completely unscathed.

 

[Stevencc]

I'm a remain voter but I'm with Fompous Part on this, at least in terms of this thread. It's an overblown, ego-driven echo chamber and is probably the most pointless thread on a site full of them.

It gives me hope that my idea of a thread letting people know each time I fart may well be one that could gain a bit of traction. I mean, there is already a thread dedicated to the EU referendum - at least my fart thread would be relatively original.

 

[Etty Abrics]

Don't listen to them Jan! I'm on tenterhooks for the next thrilling expose!

Fompous Part will be literally crying tears into his keyboard, they'll corrode the keys and spell out something topical and amusing no doubt

 

[Cornish Piskie]

Meanwhile, keeping on topic and to the point of the whole thing...........

This little sequence of comments by Daniel Hannan (founder member of Vote Leave) which fits the Brexit Watch raison d'etre like a glove.

"Of all the scare stories propagated by EU supporters, the idea that the UK and Ireland would impose borders after 94 years is the silliest." Thus tweeted the wisest fool in Brexitdom in November 2015. Ten months later, writing in Conservative Home he declared: "One of the happiest developments of the past decade has been the return to normal politics in Northern Ireland. Relations between London and Dublin have never been warmer."

Now, a mere 18 months later, where is Mr Hannan at..? "The Good Friday Agreement has failed" he wrote, in an article preparing us for the return of border controls between the UK and Ireland.

Now, I wonder what might have happened recently to prompt such a U turn of opinion...?

*****
​

1FF's very own in-house sock puppet should recognise this:

From Janet Daley, an American journo and former Labour Party member now turned hard right wing Tory writing for the Sunday Telegraph:

Her most recent effort is a major rant about how us nasty, unpleasant remainers are being horrible to her fellow Rainbows-And-Unicorns leavers. Tellingly, Ms Daley doesn't offer any actual examples of such nastiness but she does find time to call Remainers "Ruthless", "Frantic zombies", "Consumed by visceral hatred".

After ranting herself breathless she ironically titled her piece: "The Rabid Vindictive Rage Of Remainers Now Borders On The Pathological."

Janet, it's not us. It's you.