League 1 General Chat Thread

[Bartonyellow]

So basically half of the clubs are in the shit it seems down in the championship and league 1. It’s a worrying trend of unscrupulous owners, asset strippers and players demanding higher wages. Perfect storm for it to go bang at some point.
I get so wound up with our owner who sells players for “undisclosed” figures and we sign freebies and has beens but I suppose I should be grateful we keep our head above water.
Clubs chasing the dream overstretching themselves as usual seems the worst issue.

 

[Si Robin]

I get called unambitious by people who listen to our podcast because I say things like I'd rather see a Cheltenham Town in League 2 than having us go bankrupt chasing a place in the Championship.

 

[valefan16]

So basically half of the clubs are in the shit it seems down in the championship and league 1. It’s a worrying trend of unscrupulous owners, asset strippers and players demanding higher wages. Perfect storm for it to go bang at some point.
I get so wound up with our owner who sells players for “undisclosed” figures and we sign freebies and has beens but I suppose I should be grateful we keep our head above water.
Clubs chasing the dream overstretching themselves as usual seems the worst issue.

Your one of the best run clubs and have achieved success with it.

Is it Covid and the Cost of Living finally catching up with clubs maybe? The costs to run in utilities/travel must have rocketed.

 

[Bartonyellow]

Your one of the best run clubs and have achieved success with it.

Is it Covid and the Cost of Living finally catching up with clubs maybe? The costs to run in utilities/travel must have rocketed.is it clubs playing top bucks for bang average players - and then having to get rid of them?

Could be also paying top money for bang average players and then having to get rid of them.
Plus what you said - covid and the cost of
Living. Will affect clubs too with the catering, electricity and upkeep of the grounds. It’s a perfect storm.

 

[Bartonyellow]

I get called unambitious by people who listen to our podcast because I say things like I'd rather see a Cheltenham Town in League 2 than having us go bankrupt chasing a place in the Championship.

People love to watch a winning team irrespective of the division. Notts county got 16000 last weekend - would they get that or they were 17th in league 2?
Your comment is bang on. In our second season in the championship it was not fun getting dicked 4 and 5 every week despite the huge grounds you visit. The novelty soon wore off.

 

[Luke Imp]

Peterborough look like they’re in a bit of a mess financially. Their ground is owned by a company which in turn is owned three parties (McAntony being one) and one of the others has a fund which has loaned the company owning the ground £5.2m. Anyway, that fund has now called in the debt.

There are 13 or so charges on the property by the looks of things. All looks like a bit of a mess.

They might be fine and they usually are (that’s generally the tone McAntony is taking) but it is certainly raising a few eyebrows this time round.

It only caught my eye on social media a while back so I didn't look into it, but am I right in saying the guy that owns the fund fell out with everyone and wants/wanted out of it all, which is where this has really all come to a head from?

 

[thewwfc]

I get called unambitious by people who listen to our podcast because I say things like I'd rather see a Cheltenham Town in League 2 than having us go bankrupt chasing a place in the Championship.

The Championship is in many ways a terrible division to be in for any of the smaller clubs.

It was particularly infuriating for us because the one season we got there was the one season no-one could go to the games because of fucking COVID...but I genuinely believe our gates would not have been that different to normal.

Perhaps it's just us, but our attendances really don't seem to fluctuate that much regardless of how well we're doing - we pretty much get the hardcore fanbase and that's it.

But I don't believe that Championship football is really much more appealing to the floating armchair football fan than L1, it's full of unglamorous clubs like Cardiff, Middlesbrough, QPR and so on, and I really don't believe that if you go up from L1 to the Champ, that tons of fans are suddenly going to go, "Fuck me, SECOND TIER FOOTBALL! I was never bothered before about my local team, but now bring it on!"

Yes, you will get bigger gates in the Champ regardless of who you are, because there's bigger clubs there and therefore bigger away gates...but maybe even that difference has slipped in recent years given the number of fallen giants in L1 that take numbers away.

So the point I'm trying to make is, is it really worth spunking a bunch of cash up the wall to chase the Champ dream? I would say no. I hope we get back there one day, just so we can "do it properly" and, y'know, actually watch live games in the division. But not if we're creating unsustainable debts to do it.

Our natural level is probably L1/L2 yo-yo club, and I'm OK with that.

 

[Luke Imp]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1641104836576911368

 

[cookiemonster]

DAZN? Apparently owned by Access Industries, which is owned by Len Blavatnik, described in some quarters as an oligarch who got rich from the privatization of Russian aluminium and oil assets in the 1990s (in other words, from ripping off the Russian people).

 

[kieran_vale]

I’ve long been in favour of scrapping the 3pm blackout. I’m not sure there’s much evidence it would hit attendances. Also let’s be honest pretty much everybody knows if you want to stream one now all you need is a VPN / IPTV and can do it that way. So long as the distribution model is fair (a familiar gripe of Andy Holts for any who follow him on Twitter) then am good with it.

Only thing I don’t like is this would be another platform people would have to pay for to watch, it’s bad enough since Amazon and BT prior started getting some and internationals now for the most part on ViaPlay.

 

[Pompeyblueboy]

The Championship is in many ways a terrible division to be in for any of the smaller clubs.

It was particularly infuriating for us because the one season we got there was the one season no-one could go to the games because of fucking COVID...but I genuinely believe our gates would not have been that different to normal.

Perhaps it's just us, but our attendances really don't seem to fluctuate that much regardless of how well we're doing - we pretty much get the hardcore fanbase and that's it.

But I don't believe that Championship football is really much more appealing to the floating armchair football fan than L1, it's full of unglamorous clubs like Cardiff, Middlesbrough, QPR and so on, and I really don't believe that if you go up from L1 to the Champ, that tons of fans are suddenly going to go, "Fuck me, SECOND TIER FOOTBALL! I was never bothered before about my local team, but now bring it on!"

Yes, you will get bigger gates in the Champ regardless of who you are, because there's bigger clubs there and therefore bigger away gates...but maybe even that difference has slipped in recent years given the number of fallen giants in L1 that take numbers away.

So the point I'm trying to make is, is it really worth spunking a bunch of cash up the wall to chase the Champ dream? I would say no. I hope we get back there one day, just so we can "do it properly" and, y'know, actually watch live games in the division. But not if we're creating unsustainable debts to do it.

Our natural level is probably L1/L2 yo-yo club, and I'm OK with that.

I think you'll have an argument on your hands calling QPR Middlesbrough and Cardiff unglamorous much better than L1 and L2

 

[Pompeyblueboy]

I’ve long been in favour of scrapping the 3pm blackout. I’m not sure there’s much evidence it would hit attendances. Also let’s be honest pretty much everybody knows if you want to stream one now all you need is a VPN / IPTV and can do it that way. So long as the distribution model is fair (a familiar gripe of Andy Holts for any who follow him on Twitter) then am good with it.

Only thing I don’t like is this would be another platform people would have to pay for to watch, it’s bad enough since Amazon and BT prior started getting some and internationals now for the most part on ViaPlay.

Its got to affect away fans travelling. I don't think 3pm ko.s should be on Ifollow

 

[Laker]

It only caught my eye on social media a while back so I didn't look into it, but am I right in saying the guy that owns the fund fell out with everyone and wants/wanted out of it all, which is where this has really all come to a head from?

Publicly they seem amicable but not sure behind the scenes. It sounds like the fund should only have been used to buy into certain types of business (research companies I think I read) so they shouldn’t have invested in Peterborough. And now the fund wants its money back.

 

[thewwfc]

I think you'll have an argument on your hands calling QPR Middlesbrough and Cardiff unglamorous much better than L1 and L2

OK - well I'll define what I mean by "glamorous" then and you can see what you think.

Not even thinking in terms of size of fanbase or whatever.

More - if your typical armchair Sky-watching fan (who doesn't give a shit about their local lower league team) saw that said local team had a pre-season friendly against that team, would they think, "Well ordinarily I wouldn't care about my local team, but since it's a team with some big players, then maybe I'll go"?

The thing is, to expand your fanbase, you need to capture these kind of floating armchair fans, but my point was I don't think that kind of fan would really get that more excited about their local team being in the Championship vs L1.

I know that Pompey is a different case from a club like ours as you are a much more established club (at least in terms of league history), have a much better catchment area and less competition for fans, so the fanbase is much broader to begin with.

 

[thewwfc]

I’ve long been in favour of scrapping the 3pm blackout. I’m not sure there’s much evidence it would hit attendances. Also let’s be honest pretty much everybody knows if you want to stream one now all you need is a VPN / IPTV and can do it that way. So long as the distribution model is fair (a familiar gripe of Andy Holts for any who follow him on Twitter) then am good with it.

Only thing I don’t like is this would be another platform people would have to pay for to watch, it’s bad enough since Amazon and BT prior started getting some and internationals now for the most part on ViaPlay.

Yeah, I use the Wycombe TV service with a VPN.

We opted out of the iFollow contract and do our own thing, although we still pay iFollow to use their feed.

I guess from a £££ perspective all the numbers must have added up as I think we're a couple of years into doing this.

I would definitely rather pay my money directly to the club than pay it to any third party company, even if I paid a bit more to do that. I feel like any extra income makes a difference at this level.

 

[Essex2Wessex]

DAZN? Apparently owned by Access Industries, which is owned by Len Blavatnik, described in some quarters as an oligarch who got rich from the privatization of Russian aluminium and oil assets in the 1990s (in other words, from ripping off the Russian people).

Hmm, he funded a School of Government at Oxford University, too, possibly the most out-of-place building (glass circular thing) in the city centre. Does a lot of work for charitee, and likes to talk about it, mate, too, like a fair number of post-Soviet oligarchs

I'm sitting on the fence a bit about the end to the 3pm blackout, as being able to watch matches (legally) would clearly benefit long-distance fans, or indeed those who don't travel to away games at all, without losing the clubs concerned any income, and maybe gaining them some. But there's obviously a risk of abstracting in-person crowds, which should be what football spectating is about.

Wholeheartedly share Andy Holt's concerns about ensuring the distribution of income from streaming is fair

 

[Super_horns]

DAZN? Apparently owned by Access Industries, which is owned by Len Blavatnik, described in some quarters as an oligarch who got rich from the privatization of Russian aluminium and oil assets in the 1990s (in other words, from ripping off the Russian people).

Think they have a lot of boxing and cricket on their channels ?

 

[kieran_vale]

OK - well I'll define what I mean by "glamorous" then and you can see what you think.

Not even thinking in terms of size of fanbase or whatever.

More - if your typical armchair Sky-watching fan (who doesn't give a shit about their local lower league team) saw that said local team had a pre-season friendly against that team, would they think, "Well ordinarily I wouldn't care about my local team, but since it's a team with some big players, then maybe I'll go"?

The thing is, to expand your fanbase, you need to capture these kind of floating armchair fans, but my point was I don't think that kind of fan would really get that more excited about their local team being in the Championship vs L1.

I know that Pompey is a different case from a club like ours as you are a much more established club (at least in terms of league history), have a much better catchment area and less competition for fans, so the fanbase is much broader to begin with.

I’m inclined to agree with yourself here. For us there is one club that would really move the needle but probably not for anyone else in Stoke and that is purely due to local rivalry. You can maybe add Sunderland but we’ve played them often in the cups and quite honestly the reaction when we draw them is not “how exciting” more a case of “not fucking them again”. If Everton or West Ham went down from the Premier that might change that.

Outside of that and not picking on them specifically as there are plenty others could use but who really thinks oh Swansea or Reading are in town today I’d better not miss this?

 

[Bartonyellow]

I’m inclined to agree with yourself here. For us there is one club that would really move the needle but probably not for anyone else in Stoke and that is purely due to local rivalry. You can maybe add Sunderland but we’ve played them often in the cups and quite honestly the reaction when we draw them is not “how exciting” more a case of “not fucking them again”. If Everton or West Ham went down from the Premier that might change that.

Outside of that and not picking on them specifically as there are plenty others could use but who really thinks oh Swansea or Reading are in town today I’d better not miss this?

So very true. Apart from the big championship teams or an ex prem team, it is no more appealing than league 1.
Villa away and Newcastle away stick in the memory for me but reading at home on a Tuesday i could not tell you if we won or lost. I probably didn’t even go.
It’s obviously awash with more money and bigger clubs but not something I have a great desire to go back to.
I think for Ipswich and Wednesday etc it’s a big deal to get up but even then the reality bites when it’s Swansea away on a Monday night or Bournemouth away if they come down.

 

[Pompeyblueboy]

So very true. Apart from the big championship teams or an ex prem team, it is no more appealing than league 1.
Villa away and Newcastle away stick in the memory for me but reading at home on a Tuesday i could not tell you if we won or lost. I probably didn’t even go.
It’s obviously awash with more money and bigger clubs but not something I have a great desire to go back to.
I think for Ipswich and Wednesday etc it’s a big deal to get up but even then the reality bites when it’s Swansea away on a Monday night or Bournemouth away if they come down.

Maybe PV and Burton don't expect to be in the Championship so are quite happy or expect to be playing your lower league clubs. I'd much rather be playing WBA Sheff Utd and most of the other clubs in the championship than playing ther likes of PV Burton etc. Just my opinion like.

 

[Greenacres]

Think they have a lot of boxing and cricket on their channels ?

The only thing I have watched on DAZN is the Women's Champions League football, which is free to air on YouTube...they even offer two feeds with commentaries in the languages of the competing teams.

 

[kieran_vale]

Maybe PV and Burton don't expect to be in the Championship so are quite happy or expect to be playing your lower league clubs. I'd much rather be playing WBA Sheff Utd and most of the other clubs in the championship than playing ther likes of PV Burton etc. Just my opinion like.

Don’t really expect anything in terms of whatever level we play at higher or lower. I’ve seen us play all three levels of the EFL and it’s the same principle throughout. When you win and in a promotion race it’s great and you’re loving life, when you’re mediocre like we have been this season (or yourselves for that matter) it becomes a right old chore. The opponent for the most part is an irrelevance.

 

[Floreat Salopia]

It’s worrying to see so much financial difficulties occurring at so many Football League clubs at the minute. We’re so lucky at Salop with Roland Wycherley (second longest serving chairman in the Football League, 1996), that we not only own our own ground, but have zero debt and haven’t experienced financial difficulties once since he’s taken over. So, so, so blessed to have him and wouldn’t change him for any other owner.

I’m hoping that this is just a small blip in football and not a constant thing. Can’t see it unfortunately however. Think there’s gonna be a few surprise clubs coming into a bit of financial troubles in the not too distant future.

 

[UppaTowen_ITFC]

Wholeheartedly share Andy Holt's concerns about ensuring the distribution of income from streaming is fair

His actual gripe was abit ridiculous though. It started with him claiming his club Accrington should be getting 50% of our IFollow revenue when we sold 5,500 passes to the game against them. That is despite us having already sold out the away end. It made no sense.

We also played them midweek at our stadium (this could’ve been last season) and sold over 5,000 IFollow passes and again he was adamant it was a disgrace that Accrington wouldn't receive half the revenue. I don’t understand how he can think it’s a valid argument when our fans are clearly paying to watch us. Why would they receive half because they are the opponent? Whereas we’d have got half of their 50 IFollow buys. It made no sense at all and was clearly just a way for the littler clubs to ponce money off the bigger fanbases.

His argument about the game at their place was insane anyway as the actual away end had already sold out. So it wasn’t as if the IFollow buys were restricting numbers at their ground as he was insinuating.

 

[UppaTowen_ITFC]

Don’t really expect anything in terms of whatever level we play at higher or lower. I’ve seen us play all three levels of the EFL and it’s the same principle throughout. When you win and in a promotion race it’s great and you’re loving life, when you’re mediocre like we have been this season (or yourselves for that matter) it becomes a right old chore. The opponent for the most part is an irrelevance.

Bigger and better away ends; higher quality pitches; standard of actual football is higher; better stadiums and facilities; and less chance of arriving at 1pm at a stadium only for it to have been postponed because their was 20 minutes of rain and the pitch is waterlogged.

That’s five reasons to be fair straight away without even thinking about it properly.

The gulf between Championship football/matchday experience at an away ground and the same away day in League 1 is enormous in my opinion.

 

[Super_horns]

In an ideal world the revenue from the Premier league and the like would pass down evenly between all the clubs to some extent but that is never going to happen,

Nor are clubs going to try and live within their means too often these days so take risks on what money they are getting.

 

[Laker]

His actual gripe was abit ridiculous though. It started with him claiming his club Accrington should be getting 50% of our IFollow revenue when we sold 5,500 passes to the game against them. That is despite us having already sold out the away end. It made no sense.

We also played them midweek at our stadium (this could’ve been last season) and sold over 5,000 IFollow passes and again he was adamant it was a disgrace that Accrington wouldn't receive half the revenue. I don’t understand how he can think it’s a valid argument when our fans are clearly paying to watch us. Why would they receive half because they are the opponent? Whereas we’d have got half of their 50 IFollow buys. It made no sense at all and was clearly just a way for the littler clubs to ponce money off the bigger fanbases.

His argument about the game at their place was insane anyway as the actual away end had already sold out. So it wasn’t as if the IFollow buys were restricting numbers at their ground as he was insinuating.

See, I remember the time when we were a second tier club for six years in the late 70s/early 80s, when all gate receipts were split 50/50 and, you know, being a small club with less fans didn’t stop you from being competitive. So from that angle I agree with him.

It takes two sides to play a game, unless you think 5,000 Ipswich fans would fork out to watch Ipswich train on ifollow.

And in any case, it’s not like your billionaire owners need the money whereas Accrington are scrapping for every penny then can get to keep afloat.

 

[UppaTowen_ITFC]

See, I remember the time when we were a second tier club for six years in the late 70s/early 80s, when all gate receipts were split 50/50 and, you know, being a small club with less fans didn’t stop you from being competitive. So from that angle I agree with him.

It takes two sides to play a game, unless you think 5,000 Ipswich fans would fork out to watch Ipswich train on ifollow.

And in any case, it’s not like your billionaire owners need the money whereas Accrington are scrapping for every penny then can get to keep afloat.

Yes but the point he was making was that Ifollow buys were stopping our fans from coming to Accrington and giving them money. But that was nonsense because the away end was a sellout anyway.

 

[Luke Imp]

Publicly they seem amicable but not sure behind the scenes. It sounds like the fund should only have been used to buy into certain types of business (research companies I think I read) so they shouldn’t have invested in Peterborough. And now the fund wants its money back.

Going to be an interested summer for them I think because Darragh said he was going to step away. Quite whether he will (or how he can with how much Posh owe him I'm not sure) but it might be a summer of change for them. Not necessarily in how they go about things in terms of recruitment.

 

[Laker]

Going to be an interested summer for them I think because Darragh said he was going to step away. Quite whether he will (or how he can with how much Posh owe him I'm not sure) but it might be a summer of change for them. Not necessarily in how they go about things in terms of recruitment.

I’d personally like them to lose their ground, go into administration, be relegated to the conference and then get stuck there for nine years so they their fans can experience what pain is really like…,!