League 1 General Chat Thread

[TractorBoys]

There's going to be 5,100 Ipswich fans at Barnsley on a Tuesday night after they confirmed they will release a further 2k to us. They'll be gone within 24 hours. Gunna be some game!

 

[BRFC_Gas]

We’ve appointed ex Blackpool manager Terry McPhillips as our new Chief Scout, worked with our assistant Tony Grant in India and was assistant at Southport this season.

He’s going to be very busy, we’re set for another major overhaul this summer.

I think thats the case for most lower league sides these days, mainly due to the number of regular loan players in the starting XI. Some teams have half an outfield team of loan players which is mad.

 

[Chris FGR]

I think thats the case for most lower league sides these days, mainly due to the number of regular loan players in the starting XI. Some teams have half an outfield team of loan players which is mad.

We’ve had 9 loans this season, started with 5 quite a few times. Only reason we aren’t doing that now is because a couple of them have suffered season ending injuries.

On top of that a lot of the rest of our squad are either out of contract or shit, which doesn’t help. Signed 27 players this season, could easily see another 10-15 or so coming in this summer with at least that many leaving.

I agree most sides see a large turnover, but what you need to make sure is those in charge of overseeing that actually know what they’re doing. Not sure that was the case with us this year.

 

[Greenacres]

In addition to the comment above, we are down to four loanees now, Cooper, Casey, Savage and Peart-Harris, all of whom are automatic starters in most (if not all) games when available, the latter of whom even captained the side on one occasion.

Someone looked at our squad and worked out that we have eleven players contracted beyond the end of the season, I wouldn't be surprised to see at least three or four of them moved on, we will probably see very few players next season who have played for us in League One.

This season has been a complete and utter cluster, on and off the pitch, I think the majority of our fans will be happy when our fate is confirmed and we can start looking forward to the summer holidays and next season.

 

[WhiteRussian]

This loan stuff is such a fcuk up. Look at us, one result away from an auto promotion to scratching for points at the bottom of the league. Yes, I know Twine wasn't a loan but a good few others were.

I'd rather be in league 2, without loans and try and work our way up from there. This loan sh1t means a rebuild every year. The teams that have kept their spine are doing OK. Teams like mine who sold everyone who could make a few quid are fucked.

I'd rather

 

[Si Robin]

In addition to the comment above, we are down to four loanees now, Cooper, Casey, Savage and Peart-Harris, all of whom are automatic starters in most (if not all) games when available, the latter of whom even captained the side on one occasion.

Someone looked at our squad and worked out that we have eleven players contracted beyond the end of the season, I wouldn't be surprised to see at least three or four of them moved on, we will probably see very few players next season who have played for us in League One.

This season has been a complete and utter cluster, on and off the pitch, I think the majority of our fans will be happy when our fate is confirmed and we can start looking forward to the summer holidays and next season.

It reminds me of us in 08/09. Cut adrift most of the season and you're just waiting for the final cut. Doesn't stop it hurting when it's confirmed though because, regardless of how poor you've been there's always that hope that you'll be that one team that goes on the miracle run to defy the odds.

It really hurts on that night - then you're over it and ready for the next season when suddenly all this hope arrives from nowhere. And it's great all summer, you're going to win games again, you're going to boss a league, then BAM, you lose on the opening day of the season and realise nothing's changed really...

 

[valefan16]

Carol finally released an update on the club after months or rumours, worries and shit stirring last night following the intensity after the surprise departure of Colin Garlick as CEO, mixed in with an awful January and a poor run of form culminating in the horror show at the weekend and its created a perfect storm so finally we get an update on the club changes.

No new investment was announced all be it rumours linking Autonet have been floating (£1 billion local businessman and Vale fan who owns a raft of insurance companies and is close friends of Robbie Williams, sponsors the training kit and various other things around the club).

Garlick has left due to the club restructure at the top split into three sections with David Flitcroft seemingly getting a bigger role with the football side, and board members in control of the Stadium Side and Community/commercial side and her son Paddy will have a bigger role which he has been trained up to do, not too worried about that myself as he has done excellent in designing the kits and came across well on the interview with our POD.

The Away fans will get a fan zone behind the new away end as the concourse is in pitch view so no alcohol can be served in the stand, all be it temporary next season, the home end (current away) will have a permanent fan zone set up on the current away car park.

The Pitch will not be replaced this summer but will be dug up and re-drained as thats the main issue and needs to be done before a relaying in a couple of years.

Financially no issues but they had spent way too much than budgeted over the past 4 years and felt taking a step back in January, we are not close to financial trouble and they haven't pulled it out but want the club to be sustainable which means their investments are on off field structure (which is evident) which in turn will create more finance for the playing side.

The knackered old score board is going and we are getting a swanky new big screen one which will generate more income and will be re-located so home fans can see! Season ticket sales are very good for the new "end".

The Vale Campus is in early talks to make a huge site with council investment with a community facility and multiple pitches, does look exciting that but will take a few years to come into being I expect.

Been a huge inquest into Saturday and the out of character downing of tools performance involving Carol, the DOF and DC along with the players to get to the bottom of it, one thing you could never slate is effort and at the weekend that was completely absent, hopefully put it into the performances at the weekend.

Meet the owners and Smudge/Butterworth tonight so fans can ask questions if they wish but overall a nerve settling interview and much needed, some doom mongers aren't happy and felt she didn't answer anything but shes pretty much said no financial trouble and the plans going forward so what more do they want?

 

[Luke Imp]

I thought the Disney series had made them lots of money though? Not sure how much of that will go back to the club.

There was a piece in The Athletic, which suggested there's very little going to come in directly from the Netflix series (although they'll have obviously done very well off the back of the publicity of it all).

 

[Luke Imp]

Agree r.e. loans, there's a fine balance to be struck. We keep saying we want to be less reliant on loans but we've not really weaned ourselves off them in the last three seasons.

This season we've had 8, I think. Only two of those have improved us in my opinion (Rushworth and Virtue), the rest have been a bit 'meh'. Stoke wouldn't cancel Oakley-Boothe's loan in January so he's only been in one squad over the last three months or so I think.

We seem set in our way in signing loan GK's, which I'm fine with because we've picked up some good GK's since we've been in L1 and the outlay in wage for a decent GK will be far cheaper than in attacking areas.

But at the top end of the pitch is where the big bucks are paid whether it's loan or permanent and we can't stretch to that every (or any!) season whichever way we do it. That's why our two striker signings recently have been Ben House (from Eastleigh in the National League) and Charley Kendall (from Easbourne in the National League South). In 2020/21 we had a front four of Tom Hopper, Jorge Grant, Brennan Johnson and Morgan Rogers and that's one hell of an anomaly for us and had no chance of replacing the latter three within our budget the following season, hence the massive drop-off.

Ultimately though, if you're a Lincoln, Shrewsbury, MK, Cambridge or whoever else in the bottom half, do well and have a good season, you'll not be getting your loan players back and your contracted players in the squad get picked off anyway so it's a lose-lose!

 

[Gibber_McGee]

Good to see that your owners are putting in cash rather than loaning it to you.
Now I don't want to sound "anti Wrexham", actually I am, but Wrexham financials show a £6 million t/o with a £2million loss.
Reynolds and the other guy have loaned the club £2million at 7.25% interest. Losses for this season,when announced this time next year,will be at least a further £3 million along with the new stand costing £5 million. All losses and costs will be covered by the 2 owners at 7.25% meaning that in 3 years the football club will owe the owners £10 million @ 7.25% = £725,000 pa playable in interest alone.

Sooooo are the yanks really there for the football?

As a Wrexham supporter I personally was a fan of our previous fan owned model. I do have concerns about living beyond our means.

However, in the interests of balance, I would point out that the loss you mention includes the one-off cost of buying the freehold for the stadium back that we lost under a previous dodgy regime, and is for the period prior to income coming in from Hulu/Disney for the TV series.

The new stand will cost much more than £5 million. However, it is vital for us. We sell out every week but our current capacity with a three sided ground is only 10k - it's therefore impossible for many home fans to get tickets for our games and we are missing out on a significant chunk of income. We will easily sell out the 16k capacity that we will have after the new stand is built, and that extra income is clearly important if the owners are serious about their long-term aim of rising up the leagues.

 

[Chris FGR]

Thought this was interesting, most teams where you’d expect with Fleetwood arguably the exception. Exeter as usual keeping costs impressively low.

 

[kieran_vale]

That Derby amount is interesting given they’d have just come out of administration.

Portsmouth are surprisingly low at least in relative terms. Suppose ours is about or maybe just above par on that table.

 

[WhiteRussian]

How canDerby have paid a million+ when they were on some form of embargo?

 

[Luke Imp]

Ours is a lot higher than normal - the two previous years have been £130k and £90k.

Not 100% sure why but if I had to hazard a guess, we signed a lot of young lads on professional deals and we signed Mandroiu for £30k, which seems a bit of a snip so I suspect the bargain there was a bit extra went to his agent to compensate for that low fee!

 

[White horse]

Eoin Toal is out for the season after that disgusting assault on his legs in the last few minutes by Cosgrove on Sunday. How he only got booked only the referee will know. It could have been a career ending tackle. Cosgrove was also a dirty bastard when he played at Bolton in January. Revolting no mark player.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1642661199891378176

 

[Laker]

As a Wrexham supporter I personally was a fan of our previous fan owned model. I do have concerns about living beyond our means.

However, in the interests of balance, I would point out that the loss you mention includes the one-off cost of buying the freehold for the stadium back that we lost under a previous dodgy regime, and is for the period prior to income coming in from Hulu/Disney for the TV series.

The new stand will cost much more than £5 million. However, it is vital for us. We sell out every week but our current capacity with a three sided ground is only 10k - it's therefore impossible for many home fans to get tickets for our games and we are missing out on a significant chunk of income. We will easily sell out the 16k capacity that we will have after the new stand is built, and that extra income is clearly important if the owners are serious about their long-term aim of rising up the leagues.

I don’t understand the accounting of the stadium in Wrexham’s accounts. I’m a qualified accountant and can tell you that the purchase of a fixed asset (such as the freehold of a football stadium) would not touch the P&L and therefore this should not contribute towards the loss.

Granted it’ll be depreciated (likely across 20-50 years - I haven’t checked the accounting policies) but that would mean only a fraction hitting the P&L and increasing the loss.

Likewise the new Kop will be a fixed asset too.

Your loss must be generated by costs other than the purchase of the ground.

 

[masi51]

Eoin Toal is out for the season after that disgusting assault on his legs in the last few minutes by Cosgrove on Sunday. How he only got booked only the referee will know. It could have been a career ending tackle. Cosgrove was also a dirty bastard when he played at Bolton in January. Revolting no mark player.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1642661199891378176

karma is a bitch

 

[Gibber_McGee]

I don’t understand the accounting of the stadium in Wrexham’s accounts. I’m a qualified accountant and can tell you that the purchase of a fixed asset (such as the freehold of a football stadium) would not touch the P&L and therefore this should not contribute towards the loss.

Granted it’ll be depreciated (likely across 20-50 years - I haven’t checked the accounting policies) but that would mean only a fraction hitting the P&L and increasing the loss.

Likewise the new Kop will be a fixed asset too.

Your loss must be generated by costs other than the purchase of the ground.

As a qualified accountant, you’d know better than me. The club said the following:

“The Annual Report and Financial Statements for the 12 months to June 30, 2022 (‘the period’) have been submitted to Companies House.

Turnover for the period was £5.972m, an increase of 404% from £1.478m.

Of the £5.972m turnover, Matchday income accounted for £2.650m, Retail income £1.303m and Sponsorship / Advertising £1.053m.

Football costs in the period were £3.940m, an increase of 294% from £1.340m

The loss for the period was £2.914m.

The R.R. McReynolds Company LLC, introduced £3.670m of loan funding which included the funds to purchase the freehold of the Racecourse Ground and subscribed for equity in the sum of £1.200m.

The Directors have confirmed that they will continue to fund the Club going forward.”

I would add that - sadly - we are not alone in the National League in feeling like we need to spend significant sums to gain promotion. Only one guaranteed promotion place exacerbates that and creates an arms race.

For those interested in select financial figures for National League clubs up to 30 June 2022:

Stockport County £4.8m loss
Wrexham £2.9m loss
Chesterfield £2.3m loss
Notts County £1.7m loss
Woking £965k loss

 

[Laker]

As a qualified accountant, you’d know better than me. The club said the following:

“The Annual Report and Financial Statements for the 12 months to June 30, 2022 (‘the period’) have been submitted to Companies House.

Turnover for the period was £5.972m, an increase of 404% from £1.478m.

Of the £5.972m turnover, Matchday income accounted for £2.650m, Retail income £1.303m and Sponsorship / Advertising £1.053m.

Football costs in the period were £3.940m, an increase of 294% from £1.340m

The loss for the period was £2.914m.

The R.R. McReynolds Company LLC, introduced £3.670m of loan funding which included the funds to purchase the freehold of the Racecourse Ground and subscribed for equity in the sum of £1.200m.

The Directors have confirmed that they will continue to fund the Club going forward.”

I would add that - sadly - we are not alone in the National League in feeling like we need to spend significant sums to gain promotion. Only one guaranteed promotion place exacerbates that and creates an arms race.

For those interested in select financial figures for National League clubs up to 30 June 2022:

Stockport County £4.8m loss
Wrexham £2.9m loss
Chesterfield £2.3m loss
Notts County £1.7m loss
Woking £965k loss

Yeah the loss will definitely exclude the cost of the ground. So despite turnover going up to almost £6m, the loss was £2.9m which means total expenses were £8.9m.

Of more concern to me would be the loans being placed on the club and the interest being applied. You ideally want that loan converted to equity asap.

I get the conference is a nightmare to get out of and there’s some heavy spenders down there (we remember it well!). I also think Reynolds and McElhenny are fairly straight up. As I said, it’s only the loan that would concern me if I was a fan.

 

[denzel ecfc]

As a qualified accountant, you’d know better than me. The club said the following:

“The Annual Report and Financial Statements for the 12 months to June 30, 2022 (‘the period’) have been submitted to Companies House.

Turnover for the period was £5.972m, an increase of 404% from £1.478m.

Of the £5.972m turnover, Matchday income accounted for £2.650m, Retail income £1.303m and Sponsorship / Advertising £1.053m.

Football costs in the period were £3.940m, an increase of 294% from £1.340m

The loss for the period was £2.914m.

The R.R. McReynolds Company LLC, introduced £3.670m of loan funding which included the funds to purchase the freehold of the Racecourse Ground and subscribed for equity in the sum of £1.200m.

The Directors have confirmed that they will continue to fund the Club going forward.”

I would add that - sadly - we are not alone in the National League in feeling like we need to spend significant sums to gain promotion. Only one guaranteed promotion place exacerbates that and creates an arms race.

For those interested in select financial figures for National League clubs up to 30 June 2022:

Stockport County £4.8m loss
Wrexham £2.9m loss
Chesterfield £2.3m loss
Notts County £1.7m loss
Woking £965k loss

Its incredible that now the league is full of clubs who were promoted from the Conference they still haven't voted for 3 up. Will Wrexham be leading the charge for that when they get promoted??

 

[Gibber_McGee]

Its incredible that now the league is full of clubs who were promoted from the Conference they still haven't voted for 3 up. Will Wrexham be leading the charge for that when they get promoted??

I certainly hope so.

Ideally alongside that I would like to see the National League turned into EFL League 3 - as long as it is coupled with much better governance of the league and rules around financial fair play.

The attendances and stature of many of the National League clubs certainly merit that, and you could argue that the National League is a more attractive/exciting product than League 2 right now.

Football has moved on and all but two are full time - the league structure should reflect that.

 

[joethegill]

I certainly hope so.

Ideally alongside that I would like to see the National League turned into EFL League 3 - as long as it is coupled with much better governance of the league and rules around financial fair play.

The attendances and stature of many of the National League clubs certainly merit that, and you could argue that the National League is a more attractive/exciting product than League 2 right now.

Football has moved on and all but two are full time - the league structure should reflect that.

As someone who's spent the last few season watching almost exclusively National League football, this is clearly not true. It may well be exciting this season as a Notts or Wrexham fan, but outside that it's the same, run of the mill, mostly poor but sometimes ok level of football it's always been. Most teams play 3 at the back and percentage football, bar one or two exceptions. The single reason an outsider might think that is because the National League have sorted themselves out a decent tv deal, whereas the EFL deal forgot to include League Two games completely.

I'm not saying League Two is an attractive product either, but considering it's likely to have Wrexham in it next season I imagine a lot of the 'non-league focus' will miraculously head up a tier and we won't hear all that much about Bromley v Gateshead any more.

 

[Gibber_McGee]

As someone who's spent the last few season watching almost exclusively National League football, this is clearly not true. It may well be exciting this season as a Notts or Wrexham fan, but outside that it's the same, run of the mill, mostly poor but sometimes ok level of football it's always been. Most teams play 3 at the back and percentage football, bar one or two exceptions. The single reason an outsider might think that is because the National League have sorted themselves out a decent tv deal, whereas the EFL deal forgot to include League Two games completely.

I'm not saying League Two is an attractive product either, but considering it's likely to have Wrexham in it next season I imagine a lot of the 'non-league focus' will miraculously head up a tier and we won't hear all that much about Bromley v Gateshead any more.

You are right about the poor TV deal for leagues 1 and 2 being part of the issue. BT Sport don't pay much for the National League TV rights but that deal certainly does give great exposure to the clubs.

I would hope that in the next contract Sky are mandated to show a certain number of games from both leagues 1 and 2. There is no reason that they couldn't show one game a week.

Turning the National League into League 3, with three up and three down, would be beneficial to all clubs in leagues 1 and 2 in my view. It is very easy for clubs in the bottom two leagues to fall through that trapdoor to the National League, and currently very, very expensive to climb back out. That change would remove some of the jeopardy and therefore clubs wouldn't feel like they have to bet the house on going back up.

 

[Greenacres]

I'm not sure what the figures are now, but I seem to remember that when we were in the Conference the club received an annual sum of around £70k from TV for rights to show footage from our games, which went up to something like £750k for our first season in the League. At that time, which is seven seasons back (wow, where did that time go, seems like yesterday that we were promoted), I gather that teams in League One were in receipt of around £1.75m per season. Clearly the figures are now likely to be somewhat higher, and they don't include fees paid to show a game live, but it does give an idea of how much a promotion can mean financially. Clearly the difference will be a drop in the ocean to some of the larger and more well supported clubs, across all three divisions, but to some...the likes of ourselves, Harrogate or Sutton...the difference in TV revenue, from being promoted, can make a massive impact on the balance sheet.

 

[Luke Imp]

I'm not sure what the figures are now, but I seem to remember that when we were in the Conference the club received an annual sum of around £70k from TV for rights to show footage from our games, which went up to something like £750k for our first season in the League. At that time, which is seven seasons back (wow, where did that time go, seems like yesterday that we were promoted), I gather that teams in League One were in receipt of around £1.75m per season. Clearly the figures are now likely to be somewhat higher, and they don't include fees paid to show a game live, but it does give an idea of how much a promotion can mean financially. Clearly the difference will be a drop in the ocean to some of the larger and more well supported clubs, across all three divisions, but to some...the likes of ourselves, Harrogate or Sutton...the difference in TV revenue, from being promoted, can make a massive impact on the balance sheet.

Combined payments (PL TV money and EFL TV money) is around £1.3m for L1 and £900k for L2 I think.

 

[Luke Imp]

You are right about the poor TV deal for leagues 1 and 2 being part of the issue. BT Sport don't pay much for the National League TV rights but that deal certainly does give great exposure to the clubs.

I would hope that in the next contract Sky are mandated to show a certain number of games from both leagues 1 and 2. There is no reason that they couldn't show one game a week.

Turning the National League into League 3, with three up and three down, would be beneficial to all clubs in leagues 1 and 2 in my view. It is very easy for clubs in the bottom two leagues to fall through that trapdoor to the National League, and currently very, very expensive to climb back out. That change would remove some of the jeopardy and therefore clubs wouldn't feel like they have to bet the house on going back up.

There's definitely a financial cliff edge from the EFL to the NL, just like there is from the PL to the EFL and if the EFL come to an agreement over parachute payments with the PL then they need to accept altering the ones to relegated NL ones, too.

You'd have to continue with four down from the NL because of the NLN/NLS below to give them two promotion spots each.

I was saying in the L2 forum the other day, if Notts and Wrexham make it out, the bottleneck that sometimes happens is basically gone, which is one of the main argument for three up, and it doesn't actually seem like a big league next year. Chesterfield, Southend and Oldham (if the latter two get their act together) are the biggest sides but that's about it.

Another issue is the NL's refusal to implement any cost controls and whilst the continue to do that, they're alienating themselves. There's obviously another conversation around how good the financial measure in the EFL are but with the Championship, who also refused to put any financial controls in the place, moving closer to agreeing something as part of the new deal with the PL, that'll leave the NL stuck out like a sore thumb. Until they start falling in line a bit more, it'll not happen (and I don't think it'll be voted through any time soon regardless of that anyway but there's no effort from the NL to try and align themselves to the EFL).

There's also the other argument around part time sides who may not wish to/can't afford to get promoted from the regionals if it becomes L3 and fully professional. The term 'full time' in the NL is often a technicality around the contracts as well. If you're full time, it basically means you pay 52 week contracts rather than 10 month ones and I bet there are full time clubs who aren't training four or five times a week like a Notts or Wrexham. Can't imagine there are more than a handful who are truly part time i.e. training two evenings a week but there are probably a few who're in between part time and being a proper full time, professional outfit but still pay 52 week contracts.

On top of that, you'd have to pull the NL in line with all the infrastructure and that's another spend. Everyone gets giddy about receiving 'x' amount on promotion but don't realise the EFL go around and tell you what you need to do to get your ground up to EFL requirements, which span from an immediate timescale or done within 'x' amount of years. For example, they require a new gantry set-up, a proper media room that can house at least 15 members, more stewards on a match day etc etc that all eats into the money you gain on promotion. There isn't the cost implication as you move through the EFL leagues, but obviously you do when you jump from EFL to PL.

Lots to consider and I don't think it's as cut and dry as people make out r.e. making the NL into L3.

 

[gainsparkshrew]

As a Wrexham supporter I personally was a fan of our previous fan owned model. I do have concerns about living beyond our means.

However, in the interests of balance, I would point out that the loss you mention includes the one-off cost of buying the freehold for the stadium back that we lost under a previous dodgy regime, and is for the period prior to income coming in from Hulu/Disney for the TV series.

The new stand will cost much more than £5 million. However, it is vital for us. We sell out every week but our current capacity with a three sided ground is only 10k - it's therefore impossible for many home fans to get tickets for our games and we are missing out on a significant chunk of income. We will easily sell out the 16k capacity that we will have after the new stand is built, and that extra income is clearly important if the owners are serious about their long-term aim of rising up the leagues.

Oi. This is a L1 forum, where we can talk about you without you replying...lol
You're a couple of seasons,at least, above yourself. Might be worth you having a look on the L2 forum,I'm sure that you will receive a warm welcome , especially from the Tranmere fans..extra lol

 

[WhiteRussian]

Its incredible that now the league is full of clubs who were promoted from the Conference they still haven't voted for 3 up. Will Wrexham be leading the charge for that when they get promoted??

If we went for 3 up from the conference (which I agree with) then ought we to go for 3 up/down between leaguse 1 & 2? It's a historical anachronism that isn't valid anymore.

 

[cookiemonster]

If we went for 3 up from the conference (which I agree with) then ought we to go for 3 up/down between leaguse 1 & 2? It's a historical anachronism that isn't valid anymore.

I'll agree with you if and when we make it back up from EFL2

 

[Luke Imp]

How on earth did Charlton manage to lose £10m last season?!