League 1 General Chat Thread

[Psycho Mouse]

No surprise that Birmingham have lost a lot. Wage bill 33 million but remember this is the season before they were relegated and includes championship tv money, There owners seem quite happy spending big this season,

The figures have been detailed today in the first accounts published under the ownership of Knighthead Capital Management, which confirm a £16.1m loss for 2023/24 - before that summer window. That is despite income rising 45 per cent to £28.7m because the wage bill went up 17 per cent to £33.7m.

Don't forget this was last season when the squad was fully of shit players on massive contracts.

This season the wage bill is a lot lower and the revenue is even higher. As a League One club, if it wasn't for Premier League TV money, we'd be on a par with a midtable Premier League side for revenue.

We will have the highest revenue by far in the Championship next season outside of clubs receiving PL parachute payments.

 

[Psycho Mouse]

Whereas it's not exactly news, it's became pretty evident that unless you have a spectacular fluke of a season a bog standard club like a Mansfield, Lincoln, Exeter or Cambridge (no offence meant to any of those mentioned) league 1 is the highest you're going to get.

The only way to do it is increase your revenue. How you do that as a club like Mansfield is anyone's guess but you can't blame clubs like Blues and Wrexham for spending the money they make.

 

[IzzyFook]

Yes, but there are still a few stubborn posters here in the L1 forum who haven't moved over for some reason.

Pointless talking to yourself in an empty room, but I personally have had no issue getting on here on my phone on the rare occasion I do so - coz I usually have a mooch when on my laptop. Weird how some are affected but others not at all

I did have a spell a few weeks back where I couldn't get on here at all - lasted for a week to 10 days or so. Was just about to say fuck it, but tried one last time...and it let me on!
Btw, why not use both? I am for now....

 

[Conker]

The only way to do it is increase your revenue. How you do that as a club like Mansfield is anyone's guess but you can't blame clubs like Blues and Wrexham for spending the money they make.

Birmingham and Wrexham have been spending beyond the money they make, not got an issue with that but let’s not pretend otherwise.

 

[denzel ecfc]

What do you do if you run your club sustainably though? you've no chance.

When in league 1 you've Birmingham spending masses on transfers and wages, and Wrexham with all their circus to start all you're going to do is end up having a bigger and bigger gap.

Whereas it's not exactly news, it's became pretty evident that unless you have a spectacular fluke of a season a bog standard club like a Mansfield, Lincoln, Exeter or Cambridge (no offence meant to any of those mentioned) league 1 is the highest you're going to get.

In theory, we are running sustainably, ie we run a profit every year. However this is entirely due to player sales. One day I'm sure that will dry up so who knows what happens then. And finishing in the upper bottom half on league one is our ceiling, as the Birmingham fan seems to enjoy chiding us with.

 

[BRFC_Gas]

What do you do if you run your club sustainably though? you've no chance.

When in league 1 you've Birmingham spending masses on transfers and wages, and Wrexham with all their circus to start all you're going to do is end up having a bigger and bigger gap.

Whereas it's not exactly news, it's became pretty evident that unless you have a spectacular fluke of a season a bog standard club like a Mansfield, Lincoln, Exeter or Cambridge (no offence meant to any of those mentioned) league 1 is the highest you're going to get.

Some clubs like mine are better off competing at the top end of L2, crowds will come if doing well in any league. Mid table league one seems our absolute limit. This season we have spent more than we have ever done and look like going down.

 

[White horse]

Don't forget this was last season when the squad was fully of shit players on massive contracts.

This season the wage bill is a lot lower and the revenue is even higher. As a League One club, if it wasn't for Premier League TV money, we'd be on a par with a midtable Premier League side for revenue.

We will have the highest revenue by far in the Championship next season outside of clubs receiving PL parachute payments.

Very debatable , how do you know what revenue you will have next season and be the biggest in the Championship. You do not know and why is your revenue going up this season without the Championship TV money, The other thing definitely going up is your debt, over 20 million on transfer fees in L1.

 

[Pilot_Phonic]

Birmingham and Wrexham have been spending beyond the money they make, not got an issue with that but let’s not pretend otherwise.

Hmmm, not sure where you got that from but ok.

 

[Throbber_for_Dunk]

I've said this before, but if "spending beyond money they make" is the criteria, then it's easier to list the few EFL clubs that don't hit that.

Who didn't make some form of loss this (last) year? Exeter?

 

[thewwfc]

It’s a pointlessly escalating arms race though, I guess the winners in this are the players and their agents, who make more and more in wages and fees.

But the actual quality of the end product doesn’t necessarily go up.

There always seems to be new loopholes to circumvent any attempt to make things above board, as well.

I don’t know what the answer is, but I kind of sympathise with the Shrewsbury chairman when he was lamenting that the days of the local businessman made good being able to own a club are coming to an end - I mean, plenty of those are/were dodgy too (hi Andy Pilley), but I feel that it’s better to have someone with links to the local community, since in the ideal world (naive maybe?) a club should kind of be community property.

I don’t think our current Eastern European squillionaire owner has even been to a game…I know, I know, “can you blame him?” etc, but it does feel a bit weird just to be a line item on someone’s balance sheet.

 

[denzel ecfc]

I mean, if only there were rules designed so that clubs don't spend beyond their means..

 

[Trapdoor]

In theory, we are running sustainably, ie we run a profit every year. However this is entirely due to player sales. One day I'm sure that will dry up so who knows what happens then.

This is where long term financial planning comes into effect. We make hay while the sun shines. Our investments in long term infrastructure projects theoretically secures our operational future independently, so all that remains is for the manager to live within his/her means for the playing budget.

Who knows, maybe some investors will come along one day who dont want to own the club for themselves.

 

[masi51]

The problem with football and finance is that you have Educated Ruthless business people who seem to lose their heads once they buy a football club. Clubs including my own have spent way more they can afford chasing the dream then taking a easy way out and going into administration when that dream dies.
Let us not pretend that it is a level playing field. It looks like Wrexham will go up this year then what????
I doubt 50m would get them into the Premiership. Wycombe could go up........Back again next year with a bigger Debt likewise Stockport.....Birmingham have spent big this year too survive in the Championship.
Charlton are a team who if they go up may survive without spending much but again what?
Bolton, Huddersfield would need large investment if promoted. And the basket case that is Reading would either get new investors and flourish or go out of business. As Brfc Gas says maybe it is better to find your level and stay there.
Bolton, Derby, Reading, Wigan have all found the championship a money pit recently, Some clubs up there are 50-100m in debt and will landing in this league very soon

The only way forward is a salary cap but the owners keep kicking it out then over paying chasing the dream

 

[Psycho Mouse]

If anybody is interested or thinks we’re going to get smote by the FFP gods when this simple to follow piece on our finances written by prominently BCFC blogger Almajir is well worth a read.

BCFC: Positivity About Financials – almajir.net

Essentially, our commercial revenue is up massively even after relegation, we didn’t spend anywhere near as much on transfers as is being made out, and our wages/turnover ratio is down by around a quarter, we will spend big again in the summer.

 

[Psycho Mouse]

Birmingham have spent big this year too survive in the Championship.

We’re going to be doing far more than “surviving” next season.

The only way forward is a salary cap but the owners keep kicking it out then over paying chasing the dream

Good luck with all of the legal challenges for trying to put a financial restriction on a private business.

Football always has been, and always will be, dominated by the clubs with the most money. The Football League was founded purely because those clubs wanted to dominate the finances in an increasingly popular sport, not for The Love Of The Game™

The actual only way for clubs to compete is to maximise their revenue rather than having a crab-in-bucket chip on their shoulder trying to bring everyone down to the level of the poorest performer out of nothing but sheer jealousy.

If you can’t get any more revenue then cut your cloth accordingly and find your new natural level while clubs with bigger earning potential inevitably surpass you.

That’s how it goes sometimes unfortunately for some, Blues fans are well aware of it over the past decade. Not once in those horrid 10+ years did I ever think that Blues’ problems money wise were anything other than self inflicted rather than the Premier League or whatnot conspiring against us.

 

[denzel ecfc]

Fans have to shoulder the blame, always crying out for new players to get them up the league, or to sack the manager which would lead to more compensation.

It's depressing really, we are at the behest of who decides to come in next and put money in. Or not.

 

[Gladders]

Hmmm, not sure where you got that from but ok.

So you didn't have a 2.7m loss in the last financial results then? and 5m the year before?

 

[Pilot_Phonic]

So you didn't have a 2.7m loss in the last financial results then? and 5m the year before?

Well I mean yes we did, but short term losses against long term gain. We've gone through the leagues too quickly imo and need to catch up behind the scenes. That requires money and spend where we need to (kop stand being one of the big purchases). We have also paid off the loans from Rob & Ryan in last years accounts, which is also required for quick cash.

Lets see where we are in another 3 years time to see our finances where we'll be more sustainable.

 

[masi51]

We’re going to be doing far more than “surviving” next season.



Good luck with all of the legal challenges for trying to put a financial restriction on a private business.

Football always has been, and always will be, dominated by the clubs with the most money. The Football League was founded purely because those clubs wanted to dominate the finances in an increasingly popular sport, not for The Love Of The Game™

The actual only way for clubs to compete is to maximise their revenue rather than having a crab-in-bucket chip on their shoulder trying to bring everyone down to the level of the poorest performer out of nothing but sheer jealousy.

If you can’t get any more revenue then cut your cloth accordingly and find your new natural level while clubs with bigger earning potential inevitably surpass you.

That’s how it goes sometimes unfortunately for some, Blues fans are well aware of it over the past decade. Not once in those horrid 10+ years did I ever think that Blues’ problems money wise were anything other than self inflicted rather than the Premier League or whatnot conspiring against us.

Why would you blame the Premier league......Birmingham never played in the Premier League in one of those 10 years.....You are also getting the Football league mixed up with the Premier League
Birmingham was not in the original league that honour from the city of Birmingham went to Aston Villa

And as for financial restrictions on a private business......Well are Man City not in court at the moment

Newcastle are the richest club in the world yet cannot spend the money its owners want to invest in the team

I very much think you will do more than survive and the money you have invested this season will give you a advantage next

And on a side note you have not done anything more than teams like Huddersfield, Bolton, Charlton, Wigan and Barnsley in your history

 

[Throbber_for_Dunk]

You can blame the premier league for the state of the championship. 24 clubs buying bloody expensive lottery tickets year on year.

 

[masi51]

You can blame the premier league for the state of the championship. 24 clubs buying bloody expensive lottery tickets year on year.

24 owners wanting the promised land......Parachute money makes it hard to break through

 

[Gladders]

Well I mean yes we did, but short term losses against long term gain. We've gone through the leagues too quickly imo and need to catch up behind the scenes. That requires money and spend where we need to (kop stand being one of the big purchases). We have also paid off the loans from Rob & Ryan in last years accounts, which is also required for quick cash.

Lets see where we are in another 3 years time to see our finances where we'll be more sustainable.

Yeah so when Conker says you're currently spending more than you make the same as pretty much everyone else, he was correct

 

[Pilot_Phonic]

Yeah so when Conker says you're currently spending more than you make the same as pretty much everyone else, he was correct

But that was until June 2024. I'd imagine we've got sufficient funding thus far. We recently sold 1 share for £14m so not too shabby.