Managerial Merry-Go-Round 2020/21

[valefan16]

Clarke i believe still resides in Staffordshire actually so the Tranmere job would surely be decent opportunity for him, would be a perfect fit, a relatively large club for L2 struggling but plenty of potential, would fancy you to be promoted in the next couple of seasons under him.

We were sliding towards Non League in 2020/21 until he came in and the club is light years ahead of that now down to a few people but largely DC.

Talking of Brad Walker how has he been doing? He was quality for us in central midfield just a bit injury prone, would have probably gone up automatically if he didn't get crocked at Hartlepool which seemed to de-rail us for a few games at the end of the promotion season, stunned though no one at this level has picked up Tom Pett yet mind. (If you got DC he probably comes in).

I would love to see DC back in a job and going well, it was such a tragic event he went through and was a heartbreaking end at Vale Park, most fans became emotionally entangled in it all and it felt like the Play Off win was almost fate at the time, hence the thumbnail image I still have, would love him to have had a good break and be back to his usual self as he is an absolutely quality manager and bloke and Walsall aside he is pretty much revered as a legend in Salisbury, North Bristol and Burslem.

 

[Kauto Star]

Clarke i believe still resides in Staffordshire actually so the Tranmere job would surely be decent opportunity for him, would be a perfect fit, a relatively large club for L2 struggling but plenty of potential, would fancy you to be promoted in the next couple of seasons under him.

We were sliding towards Non League in 2020/21 until he came in and the club is light years ahead of that now down to a few people but largely DC.

Talking of Brad Walker how has he been doing? He was quality for us in central midfield just a bit injury prone, would have probably gone up automatically if he didn't get crocked at Hartlepool which seemed to de-rail us for a few games at the end of the promotion season, stunned though no one at this level has picked up Tom Pett yet mind. (If you got DC he probably comes in).

I would love to see DC back in a job and going well, it was such a tragic event he went through and was a heartbreaking end at Vale Park, most fans became emotionally entangled in it all and it felt like the Play Off win was almost fate at the time, hence the thumbnail image I still have, would love him to have had a good break and be back to his usual self as he is an absolutely quality manager and bloke and Walsall aside he is pretty much revered as a legend in Salisbury, North Bristol and Burslem.

I wouldn't mind Clarke at Bradford City right now, and Tranmere can have Mark Hughes

 

[saddler78]

Clarke i believe still resides in Staffordshire actually so the Tranmere job would surely be decent opportunity for him, would be a perfect fit, a relatively large club for L2 struggling but plenty of potential, would fancy you to be promoted in the next couple of seasons under him.

We were sliding towards Non League in 2020/21 until he came in and the club is light years ahead of that now down to a few people but largely DC.

Talking of Brad Walker how has he been doing? He was quality for us in central midfield just a bit injury prone, would have probably gone up automatically if he didn't get crocked at Hartlepool which seemed to de-rail us for a few games at the end of the promotion season, stunned though no one at this level has picked up Tom Pett yet mind. (If you got DC he probably comes in).

I would love to see DC back in a job and going well, it was such a tragic event he went through and was a heartbreaking end at Vale Park, most fans became emotionally entangled in it all and it felt like the Play Off win was almost fate at the time, hence the thumbnail image I still have, would love him to have had a good break and be back to his usual self as he is an absolutely quality manager and bloke and Walsall aside he is pretty much revered as a legend in Salisbury, North Bristol and Burslem.

Never had an issue with Clarke here and he did the right thing leaving had the rug pulled from under him by that clown Pomlett.

 

[Boz]

Would Adkins be a bad pick? Seems a decent long term appointment for our league.

He was a disaster at Charlton, although who isn't these days? I just don't think his "power of positivity" stuff works these days. You get the sense this is his last chance in management. I think Palios is giving him a few games as caretaker and if they see a response, they'll give him the job full time. He's from Birkenhead, so if he can turn his career around, it's Tranmere.

Think Adkins there as Technical Director a favour to Palios and he wants to spend more time with his elderly parents. Though if he does well as interim, who knows…

 

[Boz]

Clarke i believe still resides in Staffordshire actually so the Tranmere job would surely be decent opportunity for him, would be a perfect fit, a relatively large club for L2 struggling but plenty of potential, would fancy you to be promoted in the next couple of seasons under him.

We were sliding towards Non League in 2020/21 until he came in and the club is light years ahead of that now down to a few people but largely DC.

Talking of Brad Walker how has he been doing? He was quality for us in central midfield just a bit injury prone, would have probably gone up automatically if he didn't get crocked at Hartlepool which seemed to de-rail us for a few games at the end of the promotion season, stunned though no one at this level has picked up Tom Pett yet mind. (If you got DC he probably comes in).

I would love to see DC back in a job and going well, it was such a tragic event he went through and was a heartbreaking end at Vale Park, most fans became emotionally entangled in it all and it felt like the Play Off win was almost fate at the time, hence the thumbnail image I still have, would love him to have had a good break and be back to his usual self as he is an absolutely quality manager and bloke and Walsall aside he is pretty much revered as a legend in Salisbury, North Bristol and Burslem.

While Clarke would be very welcome if he did feel up to taking the Rovers job, I think there are some elements of it in particular the chairman’s involvement in player recruitment, which presents its own challenges. I think he could find a less testing return to management.

Brad Walker sadly seems to have let himself go, came back after an injury hit spell in 2022-3 but seemed off the pace and was subbed at h/t in the opening game. Since then limited to a couple of outings in central defence.

 

[valefan16]

While Clarke would be very welcome if he did feel up to taking the Rovers job, I think there are some elements of it in particular the chairman’s involvement in player recruitment, which presents its own challenges. I think he could find a less testing return to management.

Brad Walker sadly seems to have let himself go, came back after an injury hit spell in 2022-3 but seemed off the pace and was subbed at h/t in the opening game. Since then limited to a couple of outings in central defence.

To be fair DC worked under a DOF here in Flitcroft so didn't have overall control on transfers.

Shame about Brad, he was excellent in midfield for us but wasnt the best at the back!

 

[Pilot_Phonic]

Brad Walker was absolutely critical sitting in the front of our defence to break play up. Shame Sammy the snake (Ricketts) left and joined Shre*sbury and took him with him from Crewe permanently, then sent him back on loan to us as he couldn't be registered for 3 clubs in the space of 12 months, got injured and not been the same since for any club, it seems.

 

[Boz]

To be fair DC worked under a DOF here in Flitcroft so didn't have overall control on transfers.

Shame about Brad, he was excellent in midfield for us but wasnt the best at the back!

Was thinking more about the Shanahans, who seem to be much less involved in the player recruiting side than Mark Palios. I don’t think that’s a bad thing either!

 

[kieran_vale]

Was thinking more about the Shanahans, who seem to be much less involved in the player recruiting side than Mark Palios. I don’t think that’s a bad thing either!

Yeah that’s why they employed Flitcroft as they pretty much admitted they didn’t know much about football so wanted to leave it to someone who does even if it’s been somewhat up and down the relationship between him and many fans over time.

Tranmere as a club would be in a perfect world ideal for DC and you’d grow to love him like he was here and at Rovers. But yeah he wouldn’t tolerate any owners getting involved in that or player sales etc. It’s part of the reason he left Walsall to come to us in the first place.

 

[valefan16]

Yeah that’s why they employed Flitcroft as they pretty much admitted they didn’t know much about football so wanted to leave it to someone who does even if it’s been somewhat up and down the relationship between him and many fans over time.

Tranmere as a club would be in a perfect world ideal for DC and you’d grow to love him like he was here and at Rovers. But yeah he wouldn’t tolerate any owners getting involved in that or player sales etc. It’s part of the reason he left Walsall to come to us in the first place.

Walsall was because they sold Adebayo and Jules in January and he didn't get the money he was expecting to replace them wasn't it?

 

[Meadow]

The Real EFL Podcast have put out an interview with David Artell. I'll not bother with it but some of you might be interested.

 

[Monkey Tennis]

It’s almost like he’s desperate for a job.

 

[BarraMatt]

Similar to when Dino Maamria is conveniently interviewed for the Sack Race every time a job comes up.

 

[Master D]

Just get Mellon back again and be done with it.

 

[valefan16]

Would be interesting to see how Artell did, you always kind of see Crewe as a bit unique to manage as they have a system where their youth's come through, become good, Crewe do well, sell them all and they slide back down and the cycle starts again.

Going to a club with higher expectation and having to do more wheeling and dealing rather than have a conveyor belt of talented players coming through is a different prospect.

 

[TrinidadsNumberOne]

Would be interesting to see how Artell did, you always kind of see Crewe as a bit unique to manage as they have a system where their youth's come through, become good, Crewe do well, sell them all and they slide back down and the cycle starts again.

Going to a club with higher expectation and having to do more wheeling and dealing rather than have a conveyor belt of talented players coming through is a different prospect.

The "cycle" is an excuse used by Davis, Artell and some of our defeatist fans happy to justify failure.

Davis hardly sold the whole team before his failure. He only sold Luke Murphy after finishing 13th. Problem is he relied on short term loan signings for 3 years rather than blooding the next generation and released an awful lot of youngsters despite barely giving them game time. It's why we struggled for years.

Artell was the opposite. He was unfortunate that COVID meant there was no market to sell our players immediately after promotion. Its not his fault they all went at once yes but Artell is to blame for stockpiling the squad with Academy Graduates who were nowhere near good enough on long term contracts giving the likes of BSD and Griffiths 2.5 year deals despite regular poor performances. Throw in the fact Artell was a massive control freak and his recruitment was diabolical and heavily based on players who once had a good game against us or young loanees and you can see why we were in a mess rather than attributing it to a cycle.

Bell is in the early stages of reign but he seems more ready to play 17 and 18 year olds in the first team unlike Artell who wouldn't play Griffiths, Johnson, BSD, Oli Finney etc until they hit 20, which is too old if you want to get big money for players. I feel the club want a bigger home grown core in the side whilst phasing and limiting player sales to maybe 1 per window or 2 per Summer. That would benefit us in the long term and, should all come to fruition, will see us establish ourselves in League One which is where the club needs to be to run without losses.


Back to your original point though, I want to see what Artell does elsewhere. I also wish him well wherever he goes. But I'm pretty confident he won't last long in a job unless he's made serious changes to his managerial style. And, given he's one of the most stubborn blokes I've ever known, I doubt he has if I'm honest.

 

[Gi Dalor]

The "cycle" is an excuse used by Davis, Artell and some of our defeatist fans happy to justify failure.

Davis hardly sold the whole team before his failure. He only sold Luke Murphy after finishing 13th. Problem is he relied on short term loan signings for 3 years rather than blooding the next generation and released an awful lot of youngsters despite barely giving them game time. It's why we struggled for years.

Artell was the opposite. He was unfortunate that COVID meant there was no market to sell our players immediately after promotion. Its not his fault they all went at once yes but Artell is to blame for stockpiling the squad with Academy Graduates who were nowhere near good enough on long term contracts giving the likes of BSD and Griffiths 2.5 year deals despite regular poor performances. Throw in the fact Artell was a massive control freak and his recruitment was diabolical and heavily based on players who once had a good game against us or young loanees and you can see why we were in a mess rather than attributing it to a cycle.

Bell is in the early stages of reign but he seems more ready to play 17 and 18 year olds in the first team unlike Artell who wouldn't play Griffiths, Johnson, BSD, Oli Finney etc until they hit 20, which is too old if you want to get big money for players. I feel the club want a bigger home grown core in the side whilst phasing and limiting player sales to maybe 1 per window or 2 per Summer. That would benefit us in the long term and, should all come to fruition, will see us establish ourselves in League One which is where the club needs to be to run without losses.


Back to your original point though, I want to see what Artell does elsewhere. I also wish him well wherever he goes. But I'm pretty confident he won't last long in a job unless he's made serious changes to his managerial style. And, given he's one of the most stubborn blokes I've ever known, I doubt he has if I'm honest.

Did you listen to the podcast. I didn't listen to all of it, but key points. (I'm just saying what Artell said. i know one shouldn't take everything he says as gospel.
He's turned down loads of jobs, most recently a AssMan job at some European club. he did name it. think it was a top club in netherlands or belgium, but forgotten which one.
He wanted a break after leaving Crewe, and his father's dying so that's also been a factor in why he hasn't taken a job (despite so many clubs stubbornly offering them).
he pushed back on the idea that he's the type of manager who can save clubs from relegation. he wants something more long term where he can develop the team like he did at crewe.
He suggested that he is ready to get back on the bike now and seems confident that now that sacking season has started he should have a job in the next 6 weeks or so.

If this all sounds a bit negative, I must admit that I do think Artell could be a good manager. I'd like to see him manage Bradford city in the future, or if i'm being honest, now. I want to give managers a good chance, but I am not completely tied to mark hughes any more.

 

[JJ1990]

Got about 2/3rds of the way through the Artell interview. Didn't enjoy it.

Makes out like promotion was a one man operation, then when things went tits up, it was everyone's fault but his. It's always been his biggest weakness, an inflated sense of ability. Bores me to tears when managers mention budget. Has anyone ever seen any of these mythical budget lists and the rankings for each team? How do clubs know what other teams are spending on wages/players etc? Do these lists include bonuses, transfer fees, agent payments etc.

So simplistic to just say "we had the 3rd lowest budget" and big yourself up. Even if that's true, he was also gifted 4-5 incredibly talented young players, which most other teams do not have. He was given 3 championship level talents at RB, LB and CDM. 3 L1 talents at CM, RW and LW. How many other managers inherit that level of quality? The Crewe job is far easier than most(which he never acknowledges) because we have a very patient board and a mostly patient fan base. He was also given half the team and all he had to do was get them organised and wait for them to come of age.

Makes me laugh hearing him say he's waiting for a project. Like, what club is hiring him and will just accept mediocrity and struggle whilst he builds the team? He got lucky at the Alex because even during his early struggles, he was still trading on his goodwill earned as a player. He isn't getting that anywhere else.

All I heard from that interview was a man who still seems oblivious to why things went tits up at the Alex and will struggle to find more work given what clearly for him are very specific parametres that he would accept from his next club. He's basically cutting out a lot of opportunities if he's waiting for a club to offer him a project. This is the EFL. 99% of clubs don't care about projects, they want winning football and they want it now. Good luck to him, but I would be surprised if we see him employed anytime soon.

 

[Cloudy]

Got about 2/3rds of the way through the Artell interview. Didn't enjoy it.

Makes out like promotion was a one man operation, then when things went tits up, it was everyone's fault but his. It's always been his biggest weakness, an inflated sense of ability. Bores me to tears when managers mention budget. Has anyone ever seen any of these mythical budget lists and the rankings for each team? How do clubs know what other teams are spending on wages/players etc? Do these lists include bonuses, transfer fees, agent payments etc.

The EFL provide clubs with a breakdown of each clubs spending on wages etc. Every club knows where they stand in the salary spend League Table. Yes, bonuses etc are included. These are NOT made public but most clubs refer to their position in interviews etc

 

[dedwardp]

Yeah, as above - our chairman goes on about budgets all the time. Clubs get given a list of the budgets, but they aren't attributed to the clubs. So they'll be able to work out which figure is their budget and therefore where they rank compared to the rest of the league, but not see who the clubs are that are above or below them for example.

 

[lordofthepies]

Got about 2/3rds of the way through the Artell interview. Didn't enjoy it.

Makes out like promotion was a one man operation, then when things went tits up, it was everyone's fault but his. It's always been his biggest weakness, an inflated sense of ability. Bores me to tears when managers mention budget. Has anyone ever seen any of these mythical budget lists and the rankings for each team? How do clubs know what other teams are spending on wages/players etc? Do these lists include bonuses, transfer fees, agent payments etc.

So simplistic to just say "we had the 3rd lowest budget" and big yourself up. Even if that's true, he was also gifted 4-5 incredibly talented young players, which most other teams do not have. He was given 3 championship level talents at RB, LB and CDM. 3 L1 talents at CM, RW and LW. How many other managers inherit that level of quality? The Crewe job is far easier than most(which he never acknowledges) because we have a very patient board and a mostly patient fan base. He was also given half the team and all he had to do was get them organised and wait for them to come of age.

Makes me laugh hearing him say he's waiting for a project. Like, what club is hiring him and will just accept mediocrity and struggle whilst he builds the team? He got lucky at the Alex because even during his early struggles, he was still trading on his goodwill earned as a player. He isn't getting that anywhere else.

All I heard from that interview was a man who still seems oblivious to why things went tits up at the Alex and will struggle to find more work given what clearly for him are very specific parametres that he would accept from his next club. He's basically cutting out a lot of opportunities if he's waiting for a club to offer him a project. This is the EFL. 99% of clubs don't care about projects, they want winning football and they want it now. Good luck to him, but I would be surprised if we see him employed anytime soon.

You say he was given Championship level talents at RB and LB but neither of those players were full backs until Artell played them there.

 

[Optipez]

Did you listen to the podcast. I didn't listen to all of it, but key points. (I'm just saying what Artell said. i know one shouldn't take everything he says as gospel.
He's turned down loads of jobs, most recently a AssMan job at some European club. he did name it. think it was a top club in netherlands or belgium, but forgotten which one.
He wanted a break after leaving Crewe, and his father's dying so that's also been a factor in why he hasn't taken a job (despite so many clubs stubbornly offering them).
he pushed back on the idea that he's the type of manager who can save clubs from relegation. he wants something more long term where he can develop the team like he did at crewe.
He suggested that he is ready to get back on the bike now and seems confident that now that sacking season has started he should have a job in the next 6 weeks or so.

If this all sounds a bit negative, I must admit that I do think Artell could be a good manager. I'd like to see him manage Bradford city in the future, or if i'm being honest, now. I want to give managers a good chance, but I am not completely tied to mark hughes any more.

You can do better than Artell. Why not aim for Darrel Clarke for starters. I think Brennan at Barnet is a good manager who'd do better than Hughes with time and budget.

 

[TrinidadsNumberOne]

Did you listen to the podcast. I didn't listen to all of it, but key points. (I'm just saying what Artell said. i know one shouldn't take everything he says as gospel.
He's turned down loads of jobs, most recently a AssMan job at some European club. he did name it. think it was a top club in netherlands or belgium, but forgotten which one.
He wanted a break after leaving Crewe, and his father's dying so that's also been a factor in why he hasn't taken a job (despite so many clubs stubbornly offering them).
he pushed back on the idea that he's the type of manager who can save clubs from relegation. he wants something more long term where he can develop the team like he did at crewe.
He suggested that he is ready to get back on the bike now and seems confident that now that sacking season has started he should have a job in the next 6 weeks or so.

If this all sounds a bit negative, I must admit that I do think Artell could be a good manager. I'd like to see him manage Bradford city in the future, or if i'm being honest, now. I want to give managers a good chance, but I am not completely tied to mark hughes any more.

The Standard Liege job i believe it was. I think their manager is ex Stoke player Carl Hoefkens who did his coaching badges with Artell so I can believe that.

Next two points are interesting. Because he's definitely applied for a fair few jobs since leaving us. He's not going to say he's been turned down by clubs whilst he's trying to blow his own trumpet but I know that this is the case. He was ready to get back on the bike 12 months ago when he gave a litany of interviews back then. So why is he saying he himself turned down jobs? It's bullshit that and he needs to be wary that Chairmen of different clubs do indeed talk.

His Dad has been ill for some time thats true. He mentioned it when he was managing us.

As JJ has said, just like Davis, Artell takes far too much credit for the promotion and blames everyone but himself for the relegation. But I get why he's doing it because he's trying desperately to get a job. But you can't be too fussy. I get it if he doesn't want to manage someone like Crawley due to it being over 200 miles from Chester but he can't be turning down someone like Bradford because they demand instant results. Else he'll be a forgotten man in football and embarking on a fall back career in forensic science, which he has a degree in, instead.

I just really want to see how he does elsewhere. I knew Davis would spectacularly fail when he got the Orient job because his brand of football was boring and he had the charisma of a brick. But Artell did play attractive football for most of his reign and I couldn't possibly be confident that he'd be a success or a failure. However, Artell was and still is deeply unpopular with a number of players still plying their trade in the lower leagues, and that's something genuinely worth considering when it comes down to hiring him.

 

[chief]

From The S*n so take with a pinch of salt, but Ryan Giggs is being linked with the Salford job.

Obviously a bid to make themselves even more likeable.

 

[EnglishRed]

Unsworth finally given the boot at Oldham. Watch out Barrow!

 

[Monkey Tennis]

Unsworth finally given the boot at Oldham. Watch out Barrow!

I don’t think we’d appoint him.

 

[Master D]

Oldham should be looking at the likes of Stuart Maynard or Darren Sarll at that level. I think Sarll is ready for a step up to a big club.

No doubt old Fred Dibnah will appoint Duncan Ferguson next though.

 

[GTFCfish]

From The S*n so take with a pinch of salt, but Ryan Giggs is being linked with the Salford job.

Obviously a bid to make themselves even more likeable.

Perfect fit, vile human being for a vile club.

 

[Pilot_Phonic]

Oldham should be looking at the likes of Stuart Maynard or Darren Sarll at that level. I think Sarll is ready for a step up to a big club.

No doubt old Fred Dibnah will appoint Duncan Ferguson next though.

Chuck in Luke Garrard too. Excels with Boreham Wood every single season, who can't quite get over the line in the playoffs for 1 reason or another.

 

[BarraMatt]

Garrard is second only to Simon Weaver in having the cushiest number in football stakes. Give him a job with a bit of pressure and he'll crumble.