Monday 7th & Saturday 12th October

[Scum.]

That’s the classic line most new managers use when they first come in the building to buy themselves a bit of time to get new ideas across etc

Maybe, but our fans have been noticing it on our forum for weeks, so not just Lindsey…

 

[Son of Cod]

You've not been successful at it though. It has cost you goals.

Your best results have results in games where you've had less possession, sunk into a deep block and used counter attacking qualities.

Playing out from the back and sitting deep aren't mutually exclusive tactics though, are they?

You're just looking at the stats and trying to shoehorn them into an agenda. The reality is that of our six wins this season we've won half of them by being on the front foot for large parts of the match (Bradford, Cheltenham and Carlisle) and in the other three we've protected single goal leads from the 21, 51, and 45+1 minute marks (Gillingham, Bromley and Salford respectively) so it's hardly surprising that we've had to defend a bit.

 

[Stocky]

Playing out from the back and sitting deep aren't mutually exclusive tactics though, are they?

You're just looking at the stats and trying to shoehorn them into an agenda. The reality is that of our six wins this season we've won half of them by being on the front foot for large parts of the match (Bradford, Cheltenham and Carlisle) and in the other three we've protected single goal leads from the 21, 51, and 45+1 minute marks (Gillingham, Bromley and Salford respectively) so it's hardly surprising that we've had to defend a bit.

Nobody intends to sit deep AND be dominant in possession. It would be a ridiculous tactic.

The idea of playing out from the back is to keep possession and build play up, if you're having lower possession counts than your opponents and your average positions on the pitch are quite deep, you're either not great at it or you're not doing it that much. I'm giving Artell the benefit of the doubt by saying it's the latter.

Grimsby fans need to be more humble. If they concentrate and read my posts, they will see I'm being constructive and they may learn something.

 

[Son of Cod]

Nobody intends to sit deep AND be dominant in possession. It would be a ridiculous tactic.

The idea of playing out from the back is to keep possession and build play up, if you're having lower possession counts than your opponents and your average positions on the pitch are quite deep, you're either not great at it or you're not doing it that much. I'm giving Artell the benefit of the doubt by saying it's the latter.

Grimsby fans need to be more humble. If they concentrate and read my posts, they will see I'm being constructive and they may learn something.

I'm not saying we intend to dominate possession and sit deep though. I'm saying that as a result of protecting leads we've had less of the ball yet continued to play out from the back while under the cosh. Don't take it from someone who has watched all our matches this season when you've got your hands on the Fotmob stats though.

I'm also not saying we're great at playing out from the back yet either. We're very much still finding our feet with this new system and new squad of players. 3 points off the top and right at the top of the form table while having to navigate some rotten injury luck suggests that Artell is most certainly having at least some success playing this way though. We're quite clearly, so far, one of the most improved sides in the division.

 

[kieran_vale]

I'm not saying we intend to dominate possession and sit deep though. I'm saying that as a result of protecting leads we've had less of the ball yet continued to play out from the back while under the cosh. Don't take it from someone who has watched all our matches this season when you've got your hands on the Fotmob stats though.

I'm also not saying we're great at playing out from the back yet either. We're very much still finding our feet with this new system and new squad of players. 3 points off the top and right at the top of the form table while having to navigate a some rotten injury luck suggests that Artell is most certainly having at least some success playing this way though. We're quite clearly, so far, one of the most improved sides in the division.

With the caveat we’ve not played you yet and only seen you the once at Notts and to be honest that night it was more the opposition were just really good but after a quarter of the season I think that’s a fair enough body of work you can draw conclusions and think what you say is pretty much right. On a personal level you won’t find many Vale fans with a good word to say on Artell but he is a decent manager and his overall record shows that.

 

[Son of Cod]

With the caveat we’ve not played you yet and only seen you the once at Notts and to be honest that night it was more the opposition were just really good but after a quarter of the season I think that’s a fair enough body of work you can draw conclusions and think what you say is pretty much right. On a personal level you won’t find many Vale fans with a good word to say on Artell but he is a decent manager and his overall record shows that.

Artell does seem to get people's backs up for some reason. Looking forward to the Vale games this season, definitely one that has a bit of needle about it. Would love to be coming to VP in April with something to play for other than 16th place.

 

[kieran_vale]

Artell does seem to get people's backs up for some reason. Looking forward to the Vale games this season, definitely one that has a bit of needle about it. Would love to be coming to VP in April with something to play for other than 16th place.

With us it goes back to he as good as signed for us as a player then did a runner when we were in admin (me personally I never really minded that as ultimately it’s a business and I’d have done the same) but mostly from when he was Crewe manager he made some remark about Vale fans intelligence after we played them one time which didn’t help matters.

Always seen it as a fixture of two similar clubs even going back to the mid 90s when we were both second tier clubs. That said Vale-Grimsby was also the worst violence have ever seen at Vale in 92 when we got relegated from that league and let’s say our fans did not react well to it after the game.

 

[leedsvaliant]

Artell does seem to get people's backs up for some reason. Looking forward to the Vale games this season, definitely one that has a bit of needle about it. Would love to be coming to VP in April with something to play for other than 16th place.

He's got a bit of a smugness about him that rubs people up the wrong way I think. Got no real issue with him myself.

I recall a game probably 7 or 8 years ago where you beat us at home, I think it was Dembele??? tore us a new arsehole that day, he was just too quick. It was a period when we were really shit but that game stuck out as a real low point. It was during the Pugh and Tongue midfield years....we were very lucky to stay in the league.

 

[Grimsby Road]

Playing out from the back and sitting deep aren't mutually exclusive tactics though, are they?

You're just looking at the stats and trying to shoehorn them into an agenda. The reality is that of our six wins this season we've won half of them by being on the front foot for large parts of the match (Bradford, Cheltenham and Carlisle) and in the other three we've protected single goal leads from the 21, 51, and 45+1 minute marks (Gillingham, Bromley and Salford respectively) so it's hardly surprising that we've had to defend a bit.

I will add to this we have only really played the low block against Gills & Salford second half a very small % of actual games tbh

We tried pure Artell ball against Notts & Donny and got ripped a new one , probably because both of those have better players - for me the ideal is knowing when to change and for what games at this level unless you have all the best players .

 

[Grimsby Road]

Does anyone know what walsall are like as a side? that might be another interesting matchup Saturday

 

[Stocky]

I don't dislike the man. But I just question his abilities. And he's quite arrogant in some ways which is fine to believe in yourself and your own ideas. But that does leave you open to questioning when those methods don't come off.

 

[Stocky]

we've had less of the ball yet continued to play out from the back while under the cosh.

So you're shit at it then and Artell has failed to coach it correctly despite being at the club nearly a year now.

Thanks for clearing it up, Codsy.

 

[SaddlerJonny]

Does anyone know what walsall are like as a side? that might be another interesting matchup Saturday

We're very counter-attack heavy. We're better when a team tries to dominate the ball and play out. Our possession stats under Sadler have been 40 or 30% consistently, during good form and bad form.

We struggle more when teams give us the ball and sit back, but have been slowly improving on that front too.

 

[GTFCfish]

We're better when a team tries to dominate the ball and play out.

That’s not what I was hoping to hear.

 

[GTFCfish]

So you're shit at it then and Artell has failed to coach it correctly despite being at the club nearly a year now.

Thanks for clearing it up, Codsy.

There is no shame in just admitting you got Artell all wrong and moving on from your pretty sad agenda against him Stockers.

 

[Spireitelass97]

Yeovil were in the Championship for one season and then suffered 3 consecutive relegations into non league, quite extraordinary

They dropped out of NL too but don’t think that relegation was consecutive.

We went from league 1 straight through to NL. Not fun.

 

[Spireitelass97]

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I’m fairly sure you had a full squad to choose from? Just when we thought we were getting bodies back, they start to drop like flies (again).

You’re right though, two poor teams. One team were missing 4-5 starters, finishing the game again with only one recognised CB, and the other was powder puff at best - despite this, depleted squad claimed all 3 points!

King Cookie!

There’s only one King Cookie in this league thanks

 

[Spireitelass97]

Does anyone know what walsall are like as a side? that might be another interesting matchup Saturday

Best side we’ve played so far

 

[F!RTHY]

There’s only one King Cookie in this league thanks

Sir Andrew Ellis Cook - aka The Best Striker in L2

 

[The_Viking_Magpie]

Sir Andrew Ellis Cook - aka The Best Striker in L2

That's quite the shift from that Langstaff fella last season.

 

[F!RTHY]

That's quite the shift from that Langstaff fella last season.

Who?

 

[The_Viking_Magpie]

Who?

Some dude in his 20s who's scored loads of goals.

 

[F!RTHY]

Some dude in his 20s who's scored loads of goals.

Langstaff:

Cook:

Not even up for debate.

 

[The_Viking_Magpie]

Hold on you are missing Andy Cook's stats from Championship level.????

But agreed goals per game at National League and League 2 level isn't really close.

 

[Son of Cod]

With us it goes back to he as good as signed for us as a player then did a runner when we were in admin (me personally I never really minded that as ultimately it’s a business and I’d have done the same) but mostly from when he was Crewe manager he made some remark about Vale fans intelligence after we played them one time which didn’t help matters.

Always seen it as a fixture of two similar clubs even going back to the mid 90s when we were both second tier clubs. That said Vale-Grimsby was also the worst violence have ever seen at Vale in 92 when we got relegated from that league and let’s say our fans did not react well to it after the game.

Interesting regarding Artell in his playing days, had no idea about that. Can't say he's really said anything as controversial as calling a set of fans idiots during his time with us, perhaps he's mellowed out a bit.

And yeah, when I see it has a bit of needle I'm obviously not condoning all the moronic behaviour.

He's got a bit of a smugness about him that rubs people up the wrong way I think. Got no real issue with him myself.

I recall a game probably 7 or 8 years ago where you beat us at home, I think it was Dembele??? tore us a new arsehole that day, he was just too quick. It was a period when we were really shit but that game stuck out as a real low point. It was during the Pugh and Tongue midfield years....we were very lucky to stay in the league.

Yeah, seem to remember Dembele scoring in a 2-1 win. He had a few matches when he was just unplayable.

Again, I don't think Artell comes across as particularly smug nowadays. I can't really remember him from his Crewe managing days. Makes sense Vale don't really like him to be fair, but he also seems to get a fair bit of hate from fans of clubs you wouldn't expect.

So you're shit at it then and Artell has failed to coach it correctly despite being at the club nearly a year now.

Thanks for clearing it up, Codsy.

You know I'm a big fan of all your Stocky stuff but quoting half a sentence? Sad to see these kind of antics from you. What has the L1 forum done to you? Severely lacking match fitness.

Happy to continue chatting about Artell and Town but not really when the level of comment I'm replying to is sub-dross.

 

[valefan16]

Artell didn't really both me because he was Crewe, dont think any Vale fans have anything to say about Davis or Bell for instance.

The playing incident was referred to in Micky Adams autobiography and what supposedly occurred is when the take over out of administration fell through all the summer signings contacts essentially were invalid so had to be re-done but did mean we were still in administration, technically no issue if a player leaves for family but he is referred to as doing a Churchillian speach to the players urging them to all sign and stay then the next day did one (the only to leave).

Ironically we ended up winning promotion that season so he lost out there in the end.

I can't recall what the idiots comment was in relation to, possibly a red card? then when we beat Crewe at Gresty Road he came out and said "Leon Legge got away with murder" which none of us to this day know what he is actually alleged to have done! Leggey wasn't too complimentary about it either but it became a something Vale fans used to give him stick.

I imagine now that ship has sailed though its been a few years since we've crossed paths and we got into a spell of beating his team regularly so he didn't really upset us!

 

[Jimmy Anderson]

Artell didn't really both me because he was Crewe, dont think any Vale fans have anything to say about Davis or Bell for instance.

The playing incident was referred to in Micky Adams autobiography and what supposedly occurred is when the take over out of administration fell through all the summer signings contacts essentially were invalid so had to be re-done but did mean we were still in administration, technically no issue if a player leaves for family but he is referred to as doing a Churchillian speach to the players urging them to all sign and stay then the next day did one (the only to leave).

Ironically we ended up winning promotion that season so he lost out there in the end.

I can't recall what the idiots comment was in relation to, possibly a red card? then when we beat Crewe at Gresty Road he came out and said "Leon Legge got away with murder" which none of us to this day know what he is actually alleged to have done! Leggey wasn't too complimentary about it either but it became a something Vale fans used to give him stick.

I imagine now that ship has sailed though its been a few years since we've crossed paths and we got into a spell of beating his team regularly so he didn't really upset us!

It wasnt calling vale fans idiots it was something about vale fans need to educate themselves was what he said. I can't remember the incident but a vale player must have got sent off for a tackle at vale park and vale fans were booing and calling the ref a wanker which pretty much happens every game. He then made that comment about vale fans need educate themselves basically saying vale fans don't know the rules of the game. It led to fans like jean Jackson ringing into radio stoke saying she had all these qualifications and was a teacher ect so are more educated than an ex lower league football player will ever be.

 

[Spireitelass97]

Sir Andrew Ellis Cook - aka The Best Striker in L2

Never heard of him

 

[lordofthepies]

It wasnt calling vale fans idiots it was something about vale fans need to educate themselves was what he said. I can't remember the incident but a vale player must have got sent off for a tackle at vale park and vale fans were booing and calling the ref a wanker which pretty much happens every game. He then made that comment about vale fans need educate themselves basically saying vale fans don't know the rules of the game. It led to fans like jean Jackson ringing into radio stoke saying she had all these qualifications and was a teacher ect so are more educated than an ex lower league football player will ever be.

Shame she was talking about a player who has a Masters in Forensic Biology

 

[lordofthepies]

I don't dislike the man. But I just question his abilities.

Bit weird to do that when he has a consistent track record of improving teams though.