NOBBS COUNTY

[ThisTinpotLeague]

We had a player brought down in the box and no pen given, a one on one with the keeper we didn't convert and you had a player wipe our left back out off the ball who should've seen red. We broke you down and shut up shop.

I agree that our defence was shit. I actually said that was where we lost the game. That has nothing to do with you "shutting us down". We scored twice and your goalkeeper deflected a shot off the post with his back, and absolutely no idea where the ball was as he did it. You didn't "shut up shop" very well at all, because we scored after you did it. I didn't comment on the effectiveness of your attack at all, and I didn't say that you didn't deserve to win it, but your reading of the game is completely inaccurate to me.

Your defence was unable to cope with Muggletons throw that left your keeper flapping.

When you say we weren't able to cope, I assume you admit that your long throws didn't lead to any goals at all?

 

[BeesKnees]

I agree that our defence was shit. I actually said that was where we lost the game. That has nothing to do with you "shutting us down". We scored twice and your goalkeeper deflected a shot off the post with his back, and absolutely no idea where the ball was as he did it. You didn't "shut up shop" very well at all, because we scored after you did it. I didn't comment on the effectiveness of your attack at all, and I didn't say that you didn't deserve to win it, but your reading of the game is completely inaccurate to me.
When you say we weren't able to cope, I assume you admit that your long throws didn't lead to any goals at all?

We shut up shop in the second half and you failed to score, considering how much of the ball we gave you, you were very ineffective.
Muggletons throws clearly had an impact on your defence, it may not have directly resulted in a goal but the uncertainty shown by your defence was very evident and the third goal was a result of your defender being too afraid to put the ball out of play because he knew it would mean another bomb into your box, in the end he lost possession and we scored.
I'm not claiming we were the better team for a minute, but I am claiming that our tactic of playing Muggleton made defenders uncertain which was all we needed to claim the points

 

[AtaturkOzgutson]

On the Salford/Manchester question, a few points.

1) Salford is to Manchester what Andy Murray is to the UK. Salford is Manchester until the shots get fired.
2) It's most akin to South London not being London as soon as you cross the river. So all the lovely things like the Tate wouldn't be in London, although aside from that it's mostly just, well, not that grand, not as well connected and far less appealing. (Also, Middlesex doesn't exist).
3) Salford is an anomaly in many ways. It doesn't really have a 'centre' of it's own, for all purposes, Manchester city centre is as good as being Salford's too.
4) Salford Central station is 200 yards from Manchester city centre.
5) Your other parts of Greater Manchester (Bury/Oldham/Rochdale/Bolton etc) stand out as not completely contiguous, whereas Salford is contiguous.
6) No-one in Manchester gives toss.
7) Salford is technically it's own city. Technically, and not a lot more.

Otherwise, for all purposes it really is Manchester. You'd sooner find someone from Salford calling themselves a true Manc before a Salfordian.

 

[Jockney]

Perhaps a stupid question but, is that South London not being London thing just a hypothetical you made up to illustrate your point or were you being serious because I have honestly never met someone from say Bermondsey or Greenwich who would identify as a South Londoner first and foremost. As an East Londoner, South London is and always will be bandit country to me, and I will never have any reason to go there bar Millwall, but they are definitely Londoners and the majority of it is unmistakably 'London' insofar as the ways the various boroughs are culturally and aesthetically very similar (bar the shit ones like croydon and barking and dagenham).

it also pains me to say that the history of south london is very much woven inextricably into the fabric of london's identity, even despite the fact that it isn't particularly 'touristy' by today's standards. think the cutty sark and grennwich royal observatory, blake's jerusalem, christopher marlowe and the surrey docks. just a few examples, but then i am a bit drunk.

 

[AtaturkOzgutson]

Nope, not at all, I just phrased that quite poorly and can see where the ambiguity is.

I mean it would be like saying South London is a seperate and distinct city, despite being just there, yards away, and as relevant as any other part of London would be. So things like the London Eye, Tate, Borough Market, The Globe etc would 'not be London' if you applied the archaic boundaries of Manchester to London in the same way.

I hope that makes sense! Obviously South London is intrinsically London, and my comparison is more to illustrate that Manchester/Salford are seperated by a (fairly shit) river and it's nowt but a technicality to call them seperate entities. No more than being 'South of the River' would if you applied it to London.



Edit: To illustrate further, you could fit the whole of Manchester from the tip of Stockport to the tip of Bury in the same space as Hornchurch to Soho.

And before anyone says Hornchurch is Essex, well, let's just not, eh?

 

[Trapdoor]

Using Greenwich and bermondsey as examples of "South London" is like using Alsace/Lorraine as a description for part of east germany.

Brixton or elephant and castle are surely more appropriate areas for describing that particular demographic of the capital.

 

[Jockney]

Using Greenwich and bermondsey as examples of "South London" is like using Alsace/Lorraine as a description for part of east germany.

Brixton or elephant and castle are surely more appropriate areas for describing that particular demographic of the capital.

chose those two because they're two districts in south london that have wildly different demographics and they look and feel nothing alike. also bermondsey is millwall, while greenwich has always been charlton.

also brixton has been so thoroughly co-opted the past 20 years it's hard to even discern what it actually is anymore.

 

[shoddycollins]

Perhaps Westminster would be a better example, since Westminster technically is a separate city. Salford is Manchester's Westminster. It has a cathedral, is old enough to appear on historic maps as a clearly separate place, it was even the 'capital' of one of the divisions of historic Lancashire (Manchester was in the Salford Hundred, not the other way around). However very few people would consider Salford to be outside of Manchester, even if as Salfordians they do want to hang onto their own identity.

 

[Roly]

There are cities other than London?

 

[E10rifle]

We shut up shop in the second half and you failed to score, considering how much of the ball we gave you, you were very ineffective.
Muggletons throws clearly had an impact on your defence, it may not have directly resulted in a goal but the uncertainty shown by your defence was very evident and the third goal was a result of your defender being too afraid to put the ball out of play because he knew it would mean another bomb into your box, in the end he lost possession and we scored.
I'm not claiming we were the better team for a minute, but I am claiming that our tactic of playing Muggleton made defenders uncertain which was all we needed to claim the points

Careful now, Bees. The Oxford fans get a bit funny when you beat them 3-2 on their own patch; in twenty years time Eric will be telling everyone how you raped all their dachshunds and that you all need to wotch aht because it's going to get pwopa nawty.

 

[THE LAST WALTZ]

I have just learnt that the 2002 Commonwealth games were not held in Manchester and the 2012 Olympics were not held in London.
You learn something every day eh?

 

[AtaturkOzgutson]

 

[shoddycollins]

I have just learnt that the 2002 Commonwealth games were not held in Manchester and the 2012 Olympics were not held in London.
You learn something every day eh?

Not sure how you figure that one out. I get that you're making a sarcastic remark about the Olympics being held in the London Borough of Newham rather than the City of London, but the Commonwealth Games were held in what is now the Etihad, which is most certainly within the City of Manchester.

 

[Roly]

The Olympics were held across London and parts of the South East, not just Newham.

 

[AdamStag]

I have just learnt that the 2002 Commonwealth games were not held in Manchester and the 2012 Olympics were not held in London.
You learn something every day eh?

Well if they didn't take place in Manchester where exactly did they take place? Barnsley?

 

[eric read]

Careful now, Bees. The Oxford fans get a bit funny when you beat them 3-2 on their own patch; in twenty years time Eric will be telling everyone how you raped all their dachshunds and that you all need to wotch aht because it's going to get pwopa nawty.

You really are a grade A twat, aren't you?

 

[E10rifle]

You really are a grade A twat, aren't you?

...says the guy who goes on the Internet to make implied threats of violence against fans of a club who once celebrated winning a game of football a decade ago.

Still, at least you're not wound up.

 

[eric read]

...says the guy who goes on the Internet to make implied threats of violence against fans of a club who once celebrated winning a game of football a decade ago.

Still, at least you're not wound up.

Still in denial about what happened I see.

Oh, and you're the one who seems to want to keep this one rolling, with your constant mentions at every opportunity.

 

[ThisTinpotLeague]

Muggletons throws clearly had an impact on your defence, it may not have directly resulted in a goal but the uncertainty shown by your defence was very evident and the third goal was a result of your defender being too afraid to put the ball out of play because he knew it would mean another bomb into your box, in the end he lost possession and we scored.

Was it? I did not see that at all. I have to admit my memory of the game has probably faded, so I went back and watched the highlights on YouTube (not ideal I know). From the looks of it, we lose possession with a long pass forward. But given that there's only one Barnet player in our half, I don't think that's really us being terrified of a throw in, it's just us not hoofing it out without any good reason (and trying to score a goal). It's lost from a knock down within your own half - I don't think we were worried about 50 yard throw ins.

The real mistake comes when a player, who I think is Joe Skarz, steps up to try and intercept the ball and loses the runner/scorer. For my money. I was sat behind the goal so I thought he had just been hopelessly outpaced at the time, but that was definitely what stuck in the mind.

A throw in that is like a corner causes you as many problems as a corner does. It's a neat avenue of attack but I really don't see that being how we lost the game. If you actually look at both the other goals, you attack the ball into the box 4-v-4 and 4-v-3 (in your favour) - it's no surprise you manage to score in those situations, and in a game where you did all your attacking in five minutes, it seems fair to focus on these specific errors.

I'm not trying to be a dick btw, just enjoy discussing what actually happens on the pitch and never got a chance to comment in a match thread at the time.

 

[ThisTinpotLeague]

Careful now, Bees. The Oxford fans get a bit funny when you beat them 3-2 on their own patch; in twenty years time Eric will be telling everyone how you raped all their dachshunds and that you all need to wotch aht because it's going to get pwopa nawty.

I presume that you see all the same messages I do, about how tedious Orient and Oxford fans are when they're in the same place?

I get it before the games against each other. As a year round hobby though, it's not going to impress any ladies.

 

[BeesKnees]

Was it? I did not see that at all. I have to admit my memory of the game has probably faded, so I went back and watched the highlights on YouTube (not ideal I know). From the looks of it, we lose possession with a long pass forward. But given that there's only one Barnet player in our half, I don't think that's really us being terrified of a throw in, it's just us not hoofing it out without any good reason (and trying to score a goal). It's lost from a knock down within your own half - I don't think we were worried about 50 yard throw ins.

The real mistake comes when a player, who I think is Joe Skarz, steps up to try and intercept the ball and loses the runner/scorer. For my money. I was sat behind the goal so I thought he had just been hopelessly outpaced at the time, but that was definitely what stuck in the mind.

A throw in that is like a corner causes you as many problems as a corner does. It's a neat avenue of attack but I really don't see that being how we lost the game. If you actually look at both the other goals, you attack the ball into the box 4-v-4 and 4-v-3 (in your favour) - it's no surprise you manage to score in those situations, and in a game where you did all your attacking in five minutes, it seems fair to focus on these specific errors.

I'm not trying to be a dick btw, just enjoy discussing what actually happens on the pitch and never got a chance to comment in a match thread at the time.

It's fine, I enjoy the discussion. You need to watch the extended highlights on the Oxford\Barnet player as it shows more of the build up (1min 40). In Clarke we have an intelligent player whose run from outside in caught out the defence and the ball to him from Akinde was a very good one, since Clarke joined us on loan I think he has scored 3 in 4 games, all in the same way as he scored against you so I wouldn't blame your defender for losing his man too much.
We may have scored in a 5 minute spell but the pressure on your goal and the chances we made spanned a period far longer. We had a long throw into the box that was hacked away, two minutes later another long throw from the same position that your keeper tried to punch and missed, then a throw from the other side that your player handballed in the area. this was all before we scored and it was clear from where I was sitting the Oxford defence were rattled by the tactic. Against most teams with big centre backs the long throw has been a complete waste and nothing like as effective as a corner. Against you it was a different story, you simply didn't deal with it. Whether you think those throws affected your back line is open to debate, but my feeling is the subsequent mistakes were a result of it. I don't think the youtube highlights show Clarkes chance two minutes after we went 3-1 and neither does it show the penalty shout a few minutes before we scored our first which, when I watch back I am still completely amazed wasn't given. The first half could easily have ended with us leading 5-3 and you a man down.

So I will stand by my view that we were not completely battered in the first half and the tactics employed by the manager got us to 3-1 from where we held out for the result. As I am sure you will stand by yours.

Edit: just watched the highlights back and it was the build up to the pen that was a result of an Oxford player refusing to kick the ball out

 

[E10rifle]

Still in denial about what happened I see.

Oh, and you're the one who seems to want to keep this one rolling, with your constant mentions at every opportunity.

Keep chomping, champ.

 

[E10rifle]

I get it before the games against each other. As a year round hobby though, it's not going to impress any ladies.

Incorrect. I've got a thing for inbred mingers with varying numbers of digits, so I'm actually doing it to try and pull a Swindon fan.

 

[eric read]

Keep chomping, champ.

So, this is some form of entertainment for you is it? Winding up complete strangers for amusement. Quite sad really.

Do you not get out much? Live at home with your mum, even though you're a middle aged man? Spend too long in your room, on your computer? Play online games against teenagers but probably struggle to communicate with people in the "real" world?

I suspect that you're that odd bloke who the people at the local shop can't decide whether you're a harmless loner or a nonce. Probably a bit overweight, and with a poor complexion from all the junk food you eat, receding lank greasy hair and look older than your years. Bullied at school for being a weirdo and shit at sport so when the Internet came around you found yourself able to assert yourself in a way you couldn't dare to do in everyday life. Probably pull one off the wrist after a particularly successful put down.

Just saying like.........

 

[shoddycollins]

In the awards for this season there'll be one for worst thread... Just sayin'

 

[Glasshalffullpools]

The Olympics were held across London and parts of the South East, not just Newham.

The Olympics came as far north as Newcastle don't forget

 

[E10rifle]

So, this is some form of entertainment for you is it? Winding up complete strangers for amusement. Quite sad really.

Do you not get out much? Live at home with your mum, even though you're a middle aged man? Spend too long in your room, on your computer? Play online games against teenagers but probably struggle to communicate with people in the "real" world?

I suspect that you're that odd bloke who the people at the local shop can't decide whether you're a harmless loner or a nonce. Probably a bit overweight, and with a poor complexion from all the junk food you eat, receding lank greasy hair and look older than your years. Bullied at school for being a weirdo and shit at sport so when the Internet came around you found yourself able to assert yourself in a way you couldn't dare to do in everyday life. Probably pull one off the wrist after a particularly successful put down.

Just saying like.........

Uncannily accurate. Have you ever considered applying for a job as a CIA profiler?

 

[eric read]

Uncannily accurate. Have you ever considered applying for a job as a CIA profiler?

Unfortunately they don't accept knuckle dragging, Burberry cap wearing, Blackbird Leys meatheads, otherwise I'd be in.

 

[Camborne Gills]

Nope, not at all, I just phrased that quite poorly and can see where the ambiguity is.

I mean it would be like saying South London is a seperate and distinct city, despite being just there, yards away, and as relevant as any other part of London would be. So things like the London Eye, Tate, Borough Market, The Globe etc would 'not be London' if you applied the archaic boundaries of Manchester to London in the same way.

I hope that makes sense! Obviously South London is intrinsically London, and my comparison is more to illustrate that Manchester/Salford are seperated by a (fairly shit) river and it's nowt but a technicality to call them seperate entities. No more than being 'South of the River' would if you applied it to London.



Edit: To illustrate further, you could fit the whole of Manchester from the tip of Stockport to the tip of Bury in the same space as Hornchurch to Soho.

And before anyone says Hornchurch is Essex, well, let's just not, eh?

Being a semi old git, as far as I am concerned anywhere with a postcode beginning with, SE,SW,W,NW,N or E is in London.

Welling and Bromley are in Kent, Harrow and Edgware are in Middlesex and Croydon is in Surrey. Here endeth the lesson.

 

[BeesKnees]

Being a semi old git, as far as I am concerned anywhere with a postcode beginning with, SE,SW,W,NW,N or E is in London.
Welling and Bromley are in Kent, Harrow and Edgware are in Middlesex and Croydon is in Surrey. Here endeth the lesson.

Yep,
My definition of London is the London Postal Region and not the local administrative authority. Like the claim about Greater Manchester not being Manchester, I do not associate London with Greater London, I associate it with those whose address says London.
Most people will say 'Kingston, Surrey', 'Romford, Essex' or 'Uxbridge, Middlesex' despite them being within London Boroughs, They do this because a location based system (i.e the LPR) tells them that is where they are from. To claim that because the administrative authority of Middlesex no longer exists therefore there are no longer addresses in Middlesex misses the point in my view and panders to the same argument above that claims all unitary authorities no longer fall within their original county ( Slough and Reading in Berkshire for example).
Where you come from is how you identify with it not what others impose. I am happy for people in Salford to think themselves outside of Manchester, while I identify them as being within Manchester. For me that means I was born in Barnet, Hertfordshire and not London.