Non-League Away Support 2015/16

[White Army]

Is it just me or is that Cheltenham average really poor?

as for us, our average will probably drop a bit with our two remaining away games being Eastleigh and Torquy. although if we win on saturday we should be taking 500+ to both.

 

[Football Purist]

Is it just me or is that Cheltenham average really poor?

as for us, our average will probably drop a bit with our two remaining away games being Eastleigh and Torquy. although if we win on saturday we should be taking 500+ to both.

It's poor,yes,but Chelts aren't the best supported of clubs.

 

[chipmunx]

It's poor,yes,but Chelts aren't the best supported of clubs.

No offense - but Cheltenham always have been and always will be a non-league side - no matter how many years they have been in the football league - a bit like say Stevenage and Fleetwood.... hence they don't have the traditional away supports of say a Tranmere, Grimsby or Wrexham

 

[Football Purist]

No offense - but Cheltenham always have been and always will be a non-league side - no matter how many years they have been in the football league - a bit like say Stevenage and Fleetwood.... hence they don't have the traditional away supports of say a Tranmere, Grimsby or Wrexham

Yes,I agree.

 

[Shotsfan1993]

Given that they havent had a very exciting season Chester's away average is pretty impressive. I think for us to be averaging over 200 isnt bad either - and with our last 2 games being a Tour of Duty to Halifax and Bromley i'd be disappointed if it droped below 200

 

[Pablosammy]

Away attendances are meaningless unless you compare them to home attendances. Cheltenham's away attendance as a percentage of home attendance is actually up there with the better followings in the league. I did some quick calculations, the adjusted table ordered by % of home attendance looks like this...

1 Grimsby 771 4417 17%
2 Chester 354 2262 16%
3 Aldershot 205 1519 13%
4 Halifax 174 1379 13%
5 Tranmere 602 5089 12%
6 Cheltenham 283 2686 11%
7 Barrow 146 1390 11%
8 Dover 93 951 10%
9 Macclesfield 144 1496 10%
10 Altrincham 115 1208 10%
11 Lincoln 265 2799 9%
12 Torquay 162 1744 9%
13 Guiseley 79 874 9%
14 Wrexham 434 4990 9%
15 Bromley 112 1380 8%
16 Southport 108 1359 8%
17 Woking 124 1575 8%
18 Forest Green 123 1668 7%
19 Boreham Wood 42 577 7%
20 Eastleigh 118 1820 6%
21 Braintree 44 724 6%
22 Welling 41 735 6%
23 Kidderminster 105 1950 5%
24 Gateshead 48 980 5%

 

[Luke Imp]

Is that true home attendances i.e. overall attendances - away fans? Looking at our average of 2,800 I'm assuming not. Don't think it'd made too much difference, mind.

 

[Pablosammy]

Is that true home attendances i.e. overall attendances - away fans? Looking at our average of 2,800 I'm assuming not. Don't think it'd made too much difference, mind.

Not sure I get what you mean... which bit did I get wrong? It's a measure of what proportion of your home fans you take away.

 

[Southern Shayman]

Not sure I get what you mean... which bit did I get wrong? It's a measure of what proportion of your home fans you take away.

I assume he means what proportion of home fans travel away. So average away following/(ave. home attendance - ave. no of away fans at home games)

But as Luke IMP alludes to it doesn't make a huge difference to the majority of clubs - except those whose ave home attendances are inflated by 1 or 2 big away folllowings.

 

[Pablosammy]

I assume he means what proportion of home fans travel away. So average away following/(ave. home attendance - ave. no of away fans at home games)

But as Luke IMP alludes to it doesn't make a huge difference to the majority of clubs - except those whose ave home attendances are inflated by 1 or 2 big away folllowings.

Ah yes, I get what you mean now. That would take a bit more maths!

 

[GTFCfish]

Away attendances are meaningless unless you compare them to home attendances. Cheltenham's away attendance as a percentage of home attendance is actually up there with the better followings in the league. I did some quick calculations, the adjusted table ordered by % of home attendance looks like this...

1 Grimsby 771 4417 17%
2 Chester 354 2262 16%
3 Aldershot 205 1519 13%
4 Halifax 174 1379 13%
5 Tranmere 602 5089 12%
6 Cheltenham 283 2686 11%
7 Barrow 146 1390 11%
8 Dover 93 951 10%
9 Macclesfield 144 1496 10%
10 Altrincham 115 1208 10%
11 Lincoln 265 2799 9%
12 Torquay 162 1744 9%
13 Guiseley 79 874 9%
14 Wrexham 434 4990 9%
15 Bromley 112 1380 8%
16 Southport 108 1359 8%
17 Woking 124 1575 8%
18 Forest Green 123 1668 7%
19 Boreham Wood 42 577 7%
20 Eastleigh 118 1820 6%
21 Braintree 44 724 6%
22 Welling 41 735 6%
23 Kidderminster 105 1950 5%
24 Gateshead 48 980 5%

I disagree.
I think it means sod all, just because someone has good home support it does not suddenly make their away support any less impressive.
And i am saying this impartially as we are top of the % taken away so no ulterior motive for me saying this, just my opinion.

 

[MTFC_07]

Away attendances are meaningless unless you compare them to home attendances. Cheltenham's away attendance as a percentage of home attendance is actually up there with the better followings in the league. I did some quick calculations, the adjusted table ordered by % of home attendance looks like this...

1 Grimsby 771 4417 17%
2 Chester 354 2262 16%
3 Aldershot 205 1519 13%
4 Halifax 174 1379 13%
5 Tranmere 602 5089 12%
6 Cheltenham 283 2686 11%
7 Barrow 146 1390 11%
8 Dover 93 951 10%
9 Macclesfield 144 1496 10%
10 Altrincham 115 1208 10%
11 Lincoln 265 2799 9%
12 Torquay 162 1744 9%
13 Guiseley 79 874 9%
14 Wrexham 434 4990 9%
15 Bromley 112 1380 8%
16 Southport 108 1359 8%
17 Woking 124 1575 8%
18 Forest Green 123 1668 7%
19 Boreham Wood 42 577 7%
20 Eastleigh 118 1820 6%
21 Braintree 44 724 6%
22 Welling 41 735 6%
23 Kidderminster 105 1950 5%
24 Gateshead 48 980 5%

Those figures aren't the correct average home attendances - did you get the figures from the Football Web Pages, because they haven't been properly updated? I know because it says Macc's average is 1496 on there, when in reality it is 1642. Some of the others give it away though, Southport would never have an average as high as 1359 - they must not have been updated since near the beginning of the season.

 

[Pablosammy]

I disagree.
I think it means sod all, just because someone has good home support it does not suddenly make their away support any less impressive.
And i am saying this impartially as we are top of the % taken away so no ulterior motive for me saying this, just my opinion.

If it means sod all then every team's away attendance in this league is utter crap, because Leeds are averaging nearly 3,000 away fans per game.

 

[MTFC_07]

If it means sod all then every team's away attendance in this league is utter crap, because Leeds are averaging nearly 3,000 away fans per game.

Exactly, and the percentage also quite often (but not always) distinguishes who has the larger core support, as opposed to a team who offers very cheap season tickets for example.

 

[Shotsfan1993]

Is that true home attendances i.e. overall attendances - away fans? Looking at our average of 2,800 I'm assuming not. Don't think it'd made too much difference, mind.

I think it must be excluding away fans as our attendance on the table is shown as 1519 but our average this season is about 1650

 

[Harrier94]

I don't think it's fair to measure away fans against home fans. Most teams in this division will have a few games a season where you have big derby's, whether it's in terms of league position or Geography also the big away followings you get a few times a season. So ours being 5% of our average home attendance is an unfair measurement when you think we've not really had any local derbys to go away to minus FGR (with Cheltenham being re-arranged) also looking at our league position why would you get hundreds of away fans going to Braintree for example for a nothing game when you're bottom of the league.

And in terms of our home support we've had Grimsby bring near 1000 with it being game 1 and their hopes for a title challenge starting, Wrexham brought nearly the same and Chester bringing a fair amount as it's not a horrible distance to travel. Cheltenham and FGR brought a decent amount if you look at their position and distance same can be said for Tranmere also it being a new ground for them. All of these have really boosted our average attendance meaning in comparison our away followings aren't a fair reflection.

And those figures can't be excluding away fans as our average home can't be more than 1500 at a push.

 

[MTFC_07]

Those attendances are from this website - http://www.footballwebpages.co.uk/national/attendances - if you actually click on each individual team, and then on attendances on the team's individual page, you will see that it only includes some of their attendances in most cases and often includes random cup games.

The correct average attendances were posted on our forum recently. They are as follows:

1) Tranmere - 5029
2) Wrexham - 4607
3) Grimsby - 4530
4) Cheltenham - 2741
5) Lincoln - 2626
6) Chester - 2228
7) Eastleigh - 1892
8) Kidderminster - 1886
9) Torquay - 1764
10) Forest Green Rovers - 1749
11) Woking - 1667
12) Aldershot - 1647
13) Macclesfield - 1642
14) Halifax - 1487
15) Bromley - 1389
16) Barrow - 1321
17) Altrincham - 1242
18) Southport - 1140
19) Gateshead - 979
20) Dover - 952
21) Guiseley - 864
22) Braintree - 727
23) Welling - 692
24) Boreham Wood - 546

 

[Monkey Tennis]

So, in summary: attendances tell us nothing about anything other than give a rough guide to how many people may have attended a match.

 

[Football Purist]

I don't think it's fair to measure away fans against home fans. Most teams in this division will have a few games a season where you have big derby's, whether it's in terms of league position or Geography also the big away followings you get a few times a season. So ours being 5% of our average home attendance is an unfair measurement when you think we've not really had any local derbys to go away to minus FGR (with Cheltenham being re-arranged) also looking at our league position why would you get hundreds of away fans going to Braintree for example for a nothing game when you're bottom of the league.

And in terms of our home support we've had Grimsby bring near 1000 with it being game 1 and their hopes for a title challenge starting, Wrexham brought nearly the same and Chester bringing a fair amount as it's not a horrible distance to travel. Cheltenham and FGR brought a decent amount if you look at their position and distance same can be said for Tranmere also it being a new ground for them. All of these have really boosted our average attendance meaning in comparison our away followings aren't a fair reflection.

And those figures can't be excluding away fans as our average home can't be more than 1500 at a push.

A derby is only ever in terms of locality,not league position.

 

[GTFCfish]

If it means sod all then every team's away attendance in this league is utter crap, because Leeds are averaging nearly 3,000 away fans per game.

But we are on about % of home taken away, so what has just Leeds away support got to do with anything?
You are making no sense at all.

 

[Pablosammy]

But we are on about % of home taken away, so what has just Leeds away support got to do with anything?
You are making no sense at all.

I'm making complete sense, you're just missing my point.

A team with a bigger home attendance is generally going to have a bigger away following. 700 a game from Grimsby is impressive, 700 a game from Liverpool is not. The only way to 'normalise' it is to express it as a percentage of home attendance, thereby taking into account the larger fanbase.

 

[Mark kavanagh]

If you take the number of floodlights/number of trophies won x( st johns ambulance present/hot dog sales).

There are so many factors which could alter this, how many would we have taken to chester/ wrexham or grimsby to lincoln if the tickets were availible.

The bigger clubs are bound to have supporters( not fans) spread around the country thus attending more away then home games.

Geographical location too, its harder and more expensive for torquay to travel away then say an altrincham which is surrounded by clubs within a 50 mile radius

There are too many factors

 

[Josh Butler]

Wonder what effect doing mileage to away games is (Away fans x distance in miles between the 2 clubs).
I know us in Conference North are below Nuneaton and now Chorley, but both of those have round trips 60 miles less on averrage and around the Midlands and Manchester there are large groups of clubs for local derbies.
We have Corby and Gainsborough at over 50 miles away each, so if we did it by mileage, we'd probably squeeze ahead of both, though Nuneaton's away average of roughly 140 in relation to their home average of about 800 is good (or their home support is very poor)

Though do bear in mind very few games at Conf North are segregated outside of Boston/Stockport home games so most figures are based on estimates and word from anyone at the game

 

[Josh Butler]

Conf North averages, but obviously very few accurate figures
Home team down the side, away team along the top

 

[chipmunx]

If you are doing this correctly should you not be deducting the away fans from home crowd figures to get the percentages of a home gate that travels away?

for example (and all these figures are made up so no moaning);-

say Cheltenham had an average home crowd of 2500 and took an average 400 away. On the face of it it looks like 16% of the home following goes to away games (400/2500 x 100%)
BUT in those home games say there are there is an an average 500 visiting fans. Therefore the actual home fans is 2500-500 = 2000. This would make the percentage of home fans going to away games 20% (400/2000 x 100%).

Someone with more time than me could rework out the percentages for that, but it would give a more accurate figure not scewed by visiting fans numbers - you would see that all travelling percentages are actually higher than previously.

 

[les.gtfc]

And in terms of our home support we've had Grimsby bring near 1000 with it being game 1 and their hopes for a title challenge starting, Wrexham brought nearly the same and Chester bringing a fair amount as it's not a horrible distance to travel. Cheltenham and FGR brought a decent amount if you look at their position and distance same can be said for Tranmere also it being a new ground for them. All of these have really boosted our average attendance meaning in comparison our away followings aren't a fair reflection.

We brought about 1700 for that first game.

 

[GTFCfish]

I'm making complete sense, you're just missing my point.

A team with a bigger home attendance is generally going to have a bigger away following. 700 a game from Grimsby is impressive, 700 a game from Liverpool is not. The only way to 'normalise' it is to express it as a percentage of home attendance, thereby taking into account the larger fanbase.

No, i totally get your point, although do not agree with it, but you mentioned Leeds having a 3000 away average which is nothing to do with % of home support taken away.
Leeds home average is 22529 which makes their 3000 average around 13%, so does that mean Grimsby, Chester etc have better away support than Leeds?
I think not!
And that is where my problem lies with % of home fans taken away and why it means nothing to me.

 

[Pablosammy]

No, i totally get your point, although do not agree with it, but you mentioned Leeds having a 3000 away average which is nothing to do with % of home support taken away.
Leeds home average is 22529 which makes their 3000 average around 13%, so does that mean Grimsby, Chester etc have better away support than Leeds?
I think not!
And that is where my problem lies with % of home fans taken away and why it means nothing to me.

Fair enough, if that's the way you want to judge it. I'd personally say Chester and Grimsby have great away support, but by your judgment, both are pretty poor. We'll agree to disagree I think.

 

[GTFCfish]

Fair enough, if that's the way you want to judge it. I'd personally say Chester and Grimsby have great away support, but by your judgment, both are pretty poor. We'll agree to disagree I think.

No i am not saying that either lol!
I also think we do indeed have great away support but purely based on away numbers, not home ones as well.
Like you say best to agree to disagree, didn't mean to be sounding argumentative over something silly but i guess a forum such as this will always have differences of opinions

 

[djs]

If you are doing this correctly should you not be deducting the away fans from home crowd figures to get the percentages of a home gate that travels away?

for example (and all these figures are made up so no moaning);-

say Cheltenham had an average home crowd of 2500 and took an average 400 away. On the face of it it looks like 16% of the home following goes to away games (400/2500 x 100%)
BUT in those home games say there are there is an an average 500 visiting fans. Therefore the actual home fans is 2500-500 = 2000. This would make the percentage of home fans going to away games 20% (400/2000 x 100%).

Someone with more time than me could rework out the percentages for that, but it would give a more accurate figure not scewed by visiting fans numbers - you would see that all travelling percentages are actually higher than previously.

This is how I did it when I last did the collating for the season before last. If I get time then I'll try to do it again at the end of the season - no promises, so if anyone else wants to do it, go ahead.