Poch out - time for a switcharoo?

[Lionel Messi]

Of the top six sides in the Premier League, Spurs quite comfortably spend the least on transfer fees and pay the lowest wages, don't they?

Pochettino isn't on the same paying field as Pep and Jose in terms of finances and personnel, not even close. Conte has a marginally better squad peppered with stars and can pay much higher wages. Both Klopp and Wenger can blow Spurs out of the water with signings when they need to as well.

Pochettino is performing above par every time Spurs finish higher than sixth - barring disastrous seasons by other clubs in that top five.

This is a more realistic opinion sometimes stepping back makes you re-evaluate the great progress Spurs have made since Redknapp's tenure.

 

[Pagnell]

I think you answered your dilemma in the middle of your sentence: "It was his first season at City to be fair, but".

Yes. He then spends £220m. And suddenly is walking the title. Point proven, chequebook manager.

 

[Lionel Messi]

Yes. He then spends £220m. And suddenly is walking the title. Point proven, chequebook manager.

Again, “chequebook Manager” is a ridiculous summarisation of the great manager that Pep is.

All the managers of the big teams have got their ‘cheque book’ out this current and past transfer window. However that does not equate to titles and progress. If you can’t come to appreciate or respect the man-management or tactical development that Pep has achieved this season then that is your failure my friend

 

[Pagnell]

And if you can't see that my comments don't equate to writing off his achievements this season then that is your failure. But you are obviously unable to see this financial limitation in him, despite having his record and expendature a few key presses away. Mourinho isn't much better these days, but in the past at Inter and Porto he won the Champions League despite being on a relatively small budget on each occasion. Pep hasn't come near such an achievement.

Take your Pep tinted glasses off and smell the coffee.

Anyway, isn't this thread about some sort of ludicrous claim that Poch should be sacked?

 

[Lionel Messi]

So you think Pep’s legacy is based on the frail facade of money? Even if you take away his excellent historic purchases he is still a magnificent football brain and coach probably already a top ten manager of all time

He’s doesn’t need to win the Champions League on a “small budget” to prove himself. Your parameters for coaching excellence are too limited

These aren’t “Pep tinted glasses”, it is the 20/20 vision of an eye witness

 

[£50mPoundSterling]

I see both sides of the argument, however when all is said and done there isn't another coach out there I would swap and trust to do a better job with our millions based on the coaching pedigree of, albeit expensive, but world class players.

And I still don't think he has assembled the squad he would like in order to dominate in the way he did at Barcelona and to some degree Bayern.

 

[Renegade]

Lionel Messi is pretty aggro, isn't he?





Chill.

 

[GodsGift]

Lionel Messi?

6/10.

 

[Lionel Messi]

Lionel Messi?

6/10.

Please don't post pathetic spam, on non-thread related personal attacks. Messi is the greatest player of our time

Do you actually have an opinion on Pochettino or are you going to come in, waste our time and then move on to the next innocent thread?

 

[GodsGift]

Please don't post pathetic spam, on non-thread related personal attacks. Messi is the greatest player of our time

Do you actually have an opinion on Pochettino or are you going to come in, waste our time and then move on to the next innocent thread?

Pochettino?

6/10.

 

[Lionel Messi]

Pochettino?

6/10.

Do any Premier League managers get over 6/10 in your humble opinion?

 

[Renegade]

Lionel Messi?

6/10.

 

[Bilo]

While sacking Poch would obviously be over the top he does deserve some criticism in my opinion. He certainly doesn't merit the high regard in which he's held by many.

He's managing a team with the most prolific striker in the league. This can cover up A LOT of problems. Us in 13/14 for example, a rather poor side with a world class striker and we challenged for the title. In hindsight, Rodgers has gotten little to no credit for it as it all fell apart when said striker left. Now, while I'd argue Rodgers deserves slightly more than the "he just got lucky with Suarez" line, Poch is in a remarkably similar position. In fact, I'd argue that Spurs today is a better side than we were, on paper, in 2013/14. Yet they're fifth and should they lose at Anfield on sunday they're five points off top four. That's a huge underperformance and they'll be four points off the two points per game objective.

A functioning team with the top striker in the league should finish in the top three, period. The fact that they are where they are shows that Poch is doing a lot wrong. Now, I'm not arguing that he's a failure or even a poor manager. But Spurs are having a very poor season and Poch should be closer to sacking than a bigger job, if anything. And if Kane leaves this summer, he'll be gone within a year from now.

 

[Abertawe]

While sacking Poch would obviously be over the top he does deserve some criticism in my opinion. He certainly doesn't merit the high regard in which he's held by many.

He's managing a team with the most prolific striker in the league. This can cover up A LOT of problems. Us in 13/14 for example, a rather poor side with a world class striker and we challenged for the title. In hindsight, Rodgers has gotten little to no credit for it as it all fell apart when said striker left. Now, while I'd argue Rodgers deserves slightly more than the "he just got lucky with Suarez" line, Poch is in a remarkably similar position. In fact, I'd argue that Spurs today is a better side than we were, on paper, in 2013/14. Yet they're fifth and should they lose at Anfield on sunday they're five points off top four. That's a huge underperformance and they'll be four points off the two points per game objective.

A functioning team with the top striker in the league should finish in the top three, period. The fact that they are where they are shows that Poch is doing a lot wrong. Now, I'm not arguing that he's a failure or even a poor manager. But Spurs are having a very poor season and Poch should be closer to sacking than a bigger job, if anything. And if Kane leaves this summer, he'll be gone within a year from now.

Good post Bilo.

Nice result for them yesterday in fairness. Overall though bilo has it spot on. I appreciate the wembley thing might have an effect but outside of Citeh they have the most settled balanced squad in the league IMO - meaning top four this season should've been an absolute cert.

 

[mistermagic]

So Guardiola and Pochettino are average managers? Is this thread for real?

 

[Steamed Hams]

I actually agree Poch is a bit of a hype job. He's a top manager/coach no question, but carries a rep slightly higher than a guy whose won nothing should IMO.

He and Spurs need to win something soon IMO to push on.

 

[Abertawe]

So Guardiola and Pochettino are average managers? Is this thread for real?

why you inventing your own narrative dawg? is anything real?

 

[mistermagic]

why you inventing your own narrative dawg? is anything real?

Can't be bothered to copy and paste all the comments so I'm jumping to conclusions and typing something exagerated. It's the way I roll.

 

[Ciderhead]

Yes. He then spends £220m. And suddenly is walking the title. Point proven, chequebook manager.

Yeah, that's utter drivel though.

Man City haven't spent at a different rate at any time in the last decade, and yet he has taken them to another level entirely than any of their other managers during that time, and to all of his competitors this season who aren't exactly paupers. They're on track to break about every record there is.

And the main feature of this success is how he's improved on what was already there, players like Sterling that were castigated as bang average at best after the Euros, his dealings supplementing rather than overhauling an existing squad that was generally considered to be stale and past its prime upon his arrival. Of that £220m figure you mention, c.£170m was on Mendy, Walker, Danilo and Ederson. So basically the only thing preventing anyone from doing what City have this season was an inability to buy a couple of good fullbacks and a goalkeeper.

Whilst it's true that's he's had stacks of money wherever he's been (well, bar his first role at Barcelona B where he got them promoted from the Spanish 4th tier having been relegated the previous season) that's true of all of the top managers in the modern game, there's not going to be a Clough taking a 2nd tier club to a European title in this era, so it's a rather hollow stick with which to beat him with. He can only be judged within that context, and he compares favourably with virtually everyone else.

Heynckes' Bayern team was better than his, and you make a good point about Mourinho winning the CL with Porto and Inter, but then in turn when he's been able to blow everyone out of the water financially with Madrid and early Abramovich Chelsea whilst he was successful he didn't create an era-defining side in the same sense as Pep's Barca, and though it's way too early to be making these judgements yet, Pep's City are well on the way to becoming a similar watermark in the Premier League.

It would be interesting to see how he'd do long term at a smaller team, even a Southampton, Spurs type progression like Pochettino, though I doubt it's something we'll ever see happen. But just because it hasn't doesn't mean he wouldn't be successful. I see no reason why not. If he can improve world class players to the extent that he does it doesn't make sense to suggest he couldn't players with more room to improve.

And it's like £50mPoundSterling says, there's no manager in the world you'd have ahead of him if you were a big club.



Tl;dr: If he is a chequebook manager, they all are, and he's the best of them

 

[Pagnell]

Yeah, that's utter drivel though.

Man City haven't spent at a different rate at any time in the last decade

Except they have. Guardiola has spent over £300m in 18 months. City have spent around £950m in just over 10 years. Do the math.

 

[Ciderhead]

Except they have. Guardiola has spent over £300m in 18 months. City have spent around £950m in just over 10 years. Do the math.

inflation
ɪnˈfleɪʃ(ə)n/
noun

1. 1.
   the action of inflating something or the condition of being inflated.
   "the inflation of a balloon"
2. 2.
   ECONOMICS
   a general increase in prices and fall in the purchasing value of money.
   "policies aimed at controlling inflation"

 

[Pagnell]

That's it? No worries.

 

[JimJams]

Well is 22mill on Lescott in 2009 comparable to 57mill for Laporte in 2018?

 

[Abertawe]

kinda missing the point - Pep already had a hench squad at his disposal upon arrival and they've spent £300m to bolster what was already the strongest squad in the league. the only measure we can get of him because of this is his performance in the CL.

 

[Steamed Hams]

If Poch is any manager at all he'll get Alli to trim his bush, frankly.

Remains to be seen.

bama:

 

[Ciderhead]

kinda missing the point - Pep already had a hench squad at his disposal upon arrival and they've spent £300m to bolster what was already the strongest squad in the league. the only measure we can get of him because of this is his performance in the CL.

It's not so much winning the league though as the manner of it. The title, yeah, not that much of an achievement in itself; utterly sweeping aside all before them like we've never seen in this country - that's impressive.

But yeah, he needs to do it in the CL as well. Time will tell on that one

 

[Gilly?]

Lionel Messi?

6/10.

6/10

Lion-o Messi

 

[Bilo]

But yeah, he needs to do it in the CL as well. Time will tell on that one

They'll do it I reckon. Who's gonna stop them? The only ones I genuinely believe are capable of knocking them out are Barca, but I'd still hold City as favorites.

 

[Ciderhead]

Agree, PSG on paper could also be a match for them but they always seem to bottle it in the latter stages

 

[mistermagic]

Agree, PSG on paper could also be a match for them but they always seem to bottle it in the latter stages

What? We'd get murdered by this City side. We're far too sufficient a unit for them while Guardiola has his players performing with hunger on every occasion. I hate the tiki-taka and the way Guardiola sets up his team but you've gotta respect him for that.

So Poch is gash isn't he?