Preston North End v Manchester United

[SF_]

We did alright.
Fellaini was United's best player by a mile, class act.
Rooney became a threat when he moved up front and changed the game, dived for the pen though.
Daley Blind and Di Maria were terrible.
KD should have got a second yellow.
Decent night, the Town End was rowdy.

Lol at the lasher hanging around the thread all night while watching us on the BBC.

 

[smat]

What was up with Di Maria? Is he always that bad?

 

[Christian Slater]

What was up with Di Maria? Is he always that bad?

That has been one of his better games of late. Honestly. He's no good trying to be the man, he had his role at Madrid and it worked.

 

[Christian Slater]

Another miserable viewing. Our passing style appears to be give it slow, give it predictably and stay still. We're holding on to possession for the sake of it.

 

[G-Dragon]

Yeah, short fat bloke with a big nose for white lines. What about him?

Here you go. Hopefully it opens your eyes.

 

[Christian Slater]

What relevance does Fowler have to the point that was made?

 

[G-Dragon]

What relevance does Fowler have to the point that was made?

You will see if you follow the post.

 

[Christian Slater]

You will see if you follow the post.

I did. He was talking about now. I'm sure every club has had fair players over the years.

 

[G-Dragon]

As long as it suits his argument? and he was talking about future!...could have...would have... The Fowler video is the perfect example for this post.

 

[Christian Slater]

You make no sense at all.

 

[G-Dragon]

Makes better sense than some United fans defending Rooney by sayings its not a dive.

 

[Christian Slater]

I thought it was but I'm not arsed that he did. I don't care when other teams' players do it either.

 

[JonBCFC]

I thought it was but I'm not arsed that he did. I don't care when other teams' players do it either.

Bullshit. Play acting is the worst part of the game atm, and it's getting worse.

 

[Pyeman]

How on earth are people defending Rooney's dive? There are two clear aspects for me here - firstly, the law states that it is a foul if a player 'kicks or attempts to kick an opponent; trips or attempts to trip an opponent', which means that yes, it was a penalty.

HOWEVER, secondry to this, Rooney still dived. I completely agree that point one means it was a penalty, but trying to defend the dive? Nah, not buying that. None of this 'trying to avoid contact' bullshit.

If a player raises his hands to an opponent in the face then an offence has been commited. If the player who has been pushed in the face then rolls around on the floor then he is cheating. Just the same as Rooney did.

This was my initial reaction. Everything you've written here is how I was feeling last night. The question I kept asking myself is, "Why didn't Rooney just stay on his feet?" He could have just jumped over the out-stretched leg and continued.

Then I got to thinking...

If Rooney is honest and attempts to stay on his feet, then he runs the risk of missing out on the penalty AND not scoring. We both agree that that would be unfair, considering the initial foul WAS a penalty, regardless of the theatrics. So Rooney is left with two options: he can be honest and risk missing out on both goal and penalty, or he can go down and all but guarantee he wins the penalty he deserves. Considering he has only a split second to make that decision, it isn't that surprising that he goes down.

For me, the real problem here is that players feel the need to go down to ensure they get the correct decision. With the pressures of modern day football, and the potential prizes on offer, I can fully understand why clubs and players want to minimise the impact of human error. So why don't we just remove human error from the decision making process?

A TV referee, as is used in rugby, would in my opinion help tremendously. For such decisions, a 30 second break in play would not be too disruptive to the flow of the game, and we could ensure the correct decisions are reached. Seems a logical solution to me.

 

[Christian Slater]

Bullshit. Play acting is the worst part of the game atm, and it's getting worse.

Seriously doesn't bother me, more often than not it's a convenient excuse.

 

[SF_]

This was my initial reaction. Everything you've written here is how I was feeling last night. The question I kept asking myself is, "Why didn't Rooney just stay on his feet?" He could have just jumped over the out-stretched leg and continued.

Then I got to thinking...

If Rooney is honest and attempts to stay on his feet, then he runs the risk of missing out on the penalty AND not scoring. We both agree that that would be unfair, considering the initial foul WAS a penalty, regardless of the theatrics. So Rooney is left with two options: he can be honest and risk missing out on both goal and penalty, or he can go down and all but guarantee he wins the penalty he deserves. Considering he has only a split second to make that decision, it isn't that surprising that he goes down.

For me, the real problem here is that players feel the need to go down to ensure they get the correct decision. With the pressures of modern day football, and the potential prizes on offer, I can fully understand why clubs and players want to minimise the impact of human error. So why don't we just remove human error from the decision making process?

A TV referee, as is used in rugby, would in my opinion help tremendously. For such decisions, a 30 second break in play would not be too disruptive to the flow of the game, and we could ensure the correct decisions are reached. Seems a logical solution to me.

That would be all well and good if there was contact. How does he deserve a penalty when no one touches him?

He dived but it had no bearing on the overall result, so who gives a shit?

 

[Pyeman]

That would be all well and good if there was contact. How does he deserve a penalty when no one touches him?

The only reason there isn't any contact is because Rooney jumps out of the way [albeit it in an overly theatrical manner]. That doesn't change the fact that the keeper was late on his challenge and had Rooney not jumped/dived, he would have been tripped.

 

[thespus]

[error with quoting]

re: play-acting — This is most certainly not the worst part of the game right now. It's agitating, sure, but it is preferable to cloggers who let their emotions get the better of them and revert to petulant elbows, kick-outs, and awful tackles. This isn't even arguable. Give me the man who will cheat to win over the c*** who throws elbows once his team is losing. Every. Single. Time.

 

[SF_]

The only reason there isn't any contact is because Rooney jumps out of the way [albeit it in an overly theatrical manner]. That doesn't change the fact that the keeper was late on his challenge and had Rooney not jumped/dived, he would have been tripped.

Good tip. If it looks like a tackle is coming in, then make sure you fall to the ground in case they touch you. You will win a free kick.

Rooney avoided Stuckmann with ease and then decided to go down.

 

[TomPNE94]

Thing is though, even after 100's of replays, nobody agrees on one decision. Having an official watching a replay wouldn't change that, because one official could see it differently to another.

It's the rules that need looking at, not how they are interpreted.

 

[TomPNE94]

In my opinion, as a referee, I would have given the penalty. It's a reckless challenge and forced Rooney to hurdle it thus losing momentum and stopping him getting to the ball.

It's still also a dive. The problem is, if he doesn't go down, the referee wouldn't give the penalty.

 

[SF_]

I don't understand why he just didn't try to score....

 

[Pyeman]

Good tip. If it looks like a tackle is coming in, then make sure you fall to the ground in case they touch you. You will win a free kick.

Rooney avoided Stuckmann with ease and then decided to go down.

Firstly, there's a difference between 'it looks like a tackle is coming in' and 'a tackle came in and was late'. If someone puts in a late tackle and the other player has to move to get out of the way, it's a foul. I'm not saying players should just be able to fall over when they get tackled, but if your tackle misses the ball and causes the other player to move out of the way or be tripped, it's a foul.

Thing is though, even after 100's of replays, nobody agrees on one decision. Having an official watching a replay wouldn't change that, because one official could see it differently to another.

I'm not a referee so may not be in the best position to comment, but in my mind there should be no personal interpretation over what is and what isn't a foul. It should be clearly outlined so that there is consistency in decision making. If this isn't yet the case, then you're right that this is the first thing to be changed.

However, I still feel that having an additional pair of eyes in front of a video screen, who can watch an incident repeatedly, from different angles etc, would increase the accuracy of decisions made by officials.

 

[silkyman]

The law clearly needs changing, but until

The only reason there isn't any contact is because Rooney jumps out of the way [albeit it in an overly theatrical manner]. That doesn't change the fact that the keeper was late on his challenge and had Rooney not jumped/dived, he would have been tripped.

He was already past the keeper when he dived. He plants his front foot totally naturally on the floor as he had ridden the challenge, then trails his other leg, kicking the floor (where he hoped the 'keeper's leg/body/head was) to trip himself.

Someone 'taking evasive action' doesn't force his leg into the exact position he was apparently trying to avoid being in!

 

[silkyman]

[error with quoting]

re: play-acting — This is most certainly not the worst part of the game right now. It's agitating, sure, but it is preferable to cloggers who let their emotions get the better of them and revert to petulant elbows, kick-outs, and awful tackles. This isn't even arguable. Give me the man who will cheat to win over the c*** who throws elbows once his team is losing. Every. Single. Time.

Both Rooney.

 

[Pyeman]

The law clearly needs changing, but until


He was already past the keeper when he dived. He plants his front foot totally naturally on the floor as he had ridden the challenge, then trails his other leg, kicking the floor (where he hoped the 'keeper's leg/body/head was) to trip himself.

Someone 'taking evasive action' doesn't force his leg into the exact position he was apparently trying to avoid being in!

I disagree. If you look at the first two of the pictures above, Rooney is taking evasive action BEFORE planting his left foot. The second picture in particular shows Rooney jumping over the keeper with both his left and right feet. If he runs normally, rather than jumping over the keeper, he gets caught.

 

[silkyman]

He has to ride the challenge, and he does. The 'keeper is nowhere near him. Then instead of staying on his feet he chucks himself to the floor. The movement of his trailing leg, which isn't in the pictures, is totally unnatural for someone leaping frantically away to save his career from being ended with a fractured limb (as some seem to think he was doing). He actually forces his foot down behind him to try and maximise the chances of making contact with the 'keeper.

I've heard people asking why the 'keeper didn't go with his hands, but when you run the very real risk of being kicked in the face by a deliberately trailing leg, can you blame him?

Even when there is 'contact' those trailing leg penalties irritate me. It's the only time in football where you can deliberately stick a foot in on another player and then jump up expecting them to get a red card!

 

[Shotsfan1993]

Just to clarify my position, I am not condoning Rooney or anyone else who dives, however, I have absolutely NO sympathy for defenders and goalkeepers when they get conned - they are the first to go down crying for a free kick when a cross comes in and the attacker challenges for the ball. Yet you never see defenders or goalkeepers slated for conning the referee.

At premier league level, all players are trying to win at all costs for their team - and will do whatever it takes to win. That is probably why they are premier league footballers and we aren't.

 

[SALTIRE]

I did. He was talking about now. I'm sure every club has had fair players over the years.

Not many at Man Utd over the last couple of decades though...

 

[SF_]

Firstly, there's a difference between 'it looks like a tackle is coming in' and 'a tackle came in and was late'. If someone puts in a late tackle and the other player has to move to get out of the way, it's a foul. I'm not saying players should just be able to fall over when they get tackled, but if your tackle misses the ball and causes the other player to move out of the way or be tripped, it's a foul.

Stuckmann's tackle missed the ball....and the player.

Rooney skipped over him and then dropped.