Promotion thread

[Indian Dan]

Academys don't shine through overnight. We started investing heavily over the last 10-15 years. We've had gems come through already, which has made us enhance our academy further, training facilities and clear our debt. For the first time in my lifetime we are financially comfortable. It's only now we can afford to keep our talent for an extra 6-12 months, with a conveyor belt of talent steadily coming through. Its no coincidence that we are now going to win the league, get things right off the pitch first, then the rest happens. We've only been in this position the last 12 months and turning down £1m bids. Before we had to let them go earlier than we'd like. Cox & Lee are the names to look for now.

10-15 years and you’re still in L2? Hardly a success, that.

 

[denzel ecfc]

Being 'financially comfortable' doesn't get you promoted either. There's always the team who breaks the bank to go up......

 

[ExeterDan]

Realistically league 1 is the highest level we're likely to achieve under trust ownership. Our stadium (although we love it) will always hold us back. That's even assuming the crowds would come if we had a bigger stadium, which is not necessarily a given. Our academy is great but it's by no means a sure thing and it still relies on reinvesting that money wisely.

I'm sure we could sustain being comfortably midtable in L1, but the step up from that is too big.

 

[chipmunx]

Being 'financially comfortable' doesn't get you promoted either. There's always the team who breaks the bank to go up......

can't be as bad as the National league for that... there's at least 3 this season;- Stockport (who should win it), Wrexham and Chesterfield... and at least 1 of them will fail despite breaking the bank.

 

[AdamStag]

Being 'financially comfortable' doesn't get you promoted either. There's always the team who breaks the bank to go up......

I think it’s great to have an academy that seems to be successful, quite obviously if it was amazing academy you wouldn’t be in league 2 and for some time (no go btw).

 

[Spanishstag]

You had a good run earlier in the season which stood you in good stead and like you say, you keep picking up wins here and there which just about keeps you in the hunt. Defensively good which always helps.

With Mansfield's remaining fixtures, that 3rd place is up for grabs. Can't see Forest Green or Exeter slipping up now. I'm convinced that there'll be 2 or 3 teams on the same points in 3rd going into the final game......I just hope Exeter are promoted with no chance of being champions by then!

Really our fixture are starting to even themselves out now ,if we get a good result tomorrow we are really in the thick of it ,we have already beaten Exeter at home,can't really see fgr being that much tougher everyone has a few tough games in the run in it's gonna be interesting

 

[Moomin]

10-15 years and you’re still in L2? Hardly a success, that.

I blame Tisdale.

 

[AdamStag]

can't be as bad as the National league for that... there's at least 3 this season;- Stockport (who should win it), Wrexham and Chesterfield... and at least 1 of them will fail despite breaking the bank.

don’t forget boreham wood paying decent wages on no crowds basically. I find it hard to believe halifax are up there on merit without help also given they’re only attracting 2.100

 

[shoddycollins]

I said etc. Was the missed on purpose or by mistake? Improving or cemented on those leagues? Different questions.

You seem to think the difference in L2 & L1 is bigger than it is. You just have to look at cup games this season between the two to realise that's crap. You have no idea of the talent in our academy so I won't comment on your nonsense on that front. We have about 4 players under 18 currently that Bolton would wish they could snap up. Unfortunately they can't compete with the top 6 in the PL when it comes to grabbing our gems.

I see a lot of jealousy on these boards about how good our academy is and the difference in comparing us with Crewe is obviously a comparison lots make on the face of it without understanding the situation. Its a lazy and silly comparison. But I see why people do it, it's just stupid though.

You said etc. I presume to imply that there are other players of the quality of the ones you started your post with, who again I'll point out played for you over a period of several years, not all together.

Also, you didn't say just L1, you said your acadamy alone would be competing at lower Champ, upper L1 level, that is a huge difference over L2. If you're now going back to saying that Exeter could be competitive in L1 with some players from their academy playing a part then I'd agree. However the problem there is similar to the one Crewe found in that you get stuck as a selling club and almost by design economically, the money you earn by that falls short of what would be needed to start competing with the clubs currently buying your starlets. Similar to the way that your boss doesn't pay you so much that you can usurp their position. It's a good base to start an upward climb but it needs more than just a good academy, or else Crewe would be solid in the Championship instead of being a L1/2 yoyo club.

Lot of respect for what Exeter are doing with their academy but it's utter nonsense to suggest that a team made up of your academy players would be competing at lower Champ, upper L1 level. So like, in a good season three of those might be wonderkids who will be sold within a year of their debut, the rest will be adequate and that is all and that's without asking where the experience is coming from in this supposed line-up. As good as Exeter's academy is, you are not producing an entire squad of Championship quality players every season, get a grip man

 

[Indian Dan]

Like it or not - and this applies to most of us - without consistent financial input clubs will continue to yo-yo or stagnate. If being fan-owned equates to living within your means - which is laudable - then bouncing around the bottom 2 leagues is the limit.

I’m sure that selling any player just to pay inflated wages to attract a supposedly better class of player isn’t really what a fan-owned club would contemplate. Facilities and the ability to gain income from non-football related activities is the game-changer.

What’s the point of playing in a league where many clubs would bring 2 or 3 times the number of away fans to a club that can only accommodate 1,000. Money lost.

 

[Chris FGR]

Exeter's academy squad isn't all that, they only beat our lot 2-1 a few weeks back and we're not exactly an elite set up....

 

[denzel ecfc]

Exeter's academy squad isn't all that, they only beat our lot 2-1 a few weeks back....

Most of our academy are currently playing for other clubs, so they aren't turning out in those games. Cox got a hattrick for Weston on Saturday.

 

[GEORGE]

I said etc. Was the missed on purpose or by mistake? Improving or cemented on those leagues? Different questions.

You seem to think the difference in L2 & L1 is bigger than it is. You just have to look at cup games this season between the two to realise that's crap. You have no idea of the talent in our academy so I won't comment on your nonsense on that front. We have about 4 players under 18 currently that Bolton would wish they could snap up. Unfortunately they can't compete with the top 6 in the PL when it comes to grabbing our gems.

I see a lot of jealousy on these boards about how good our academy is and the difference in comparing us with Crewe is obviously a comparison lots make on the face of it without understanding the situation. Its a lazy and silly comparison. But I see why people do it, it's just stupid though.

There is a huge difference in the Third and 4th divisions. You should know that as you never ever seem to get a foothold up there.

 

[Indian Dan]

Hope it doesn’t go down to the last day with Rovers home to Scunny!

 

[EricSabin]

I think it’ll be the 1st time the ground has sold out in some while, even in the playoffs against newport it was lower as they didn’t bring masses (short notice in fairness) wrexham took like 50 to us when we we won the conference and the ground had capacity restrictions on when liverpool came to us in the cup.

There were 6,300 home fans on a friday night against exeter and defying our own fans expectations were still in the hunt so it could be fun saturday. I assume you’ve sold out/will sell out the away end?

There doesn’t seem a massive deal of enthusiasm at the minute for our promotion, can see it being pretty crap to be honest.

 

[GEORGE]

Like it or not - and this applies to most of us - without consistent financial input clubs will continue to yo-yo or stagnate. If being fan-owned equates to living within your means - which is laudable - then bouncing around the bottom 2 leagues is the limit.

I’m sure that selling any player just to pay inflated wages to attract a supposedly better class of player isn’t really what a fan-owned club would contemplate. Facilities and the ability to gain income from non-football related activities is the game-changer.

What’s the point of playing in a league where many clubs would bring 2 or 3 times the number of away fans to a club that can only accommodate 1,000. Money lost.

Exactly this -- And that is why we are trying to get a new stadium at the Fruit market. I am told things are progressing. Without it we will stay in the 4th . Our limit is 10K soon to be raised but still not big enough to progress. And this is no dig at the smaller gates clubs.

 

[GEORGE]

Hope it doesn’t go down to the last day with Rovers home to Scunny!

I do

 

[shoddycollins]

There is a huge difference in the Third and 4th divisions. You should know that as you never ever seem to get a foothold up there.

I'd say the gulf comes between mid-table and promotion-chasing L1. A lot of huge teams up there now and it's been getting that way for a while. Clubs like most of ours are in the mid-table L1 to top-end Conference level, not that's there's no difference in quality there but it's more a steady decline in quality across three divisions where the top end of one division is often on par with the bottom end of the division above.

Interesting that the latest club, potentially to bridge that gap, Wycombe (early days but the positive signs are that following relegation from the Championship, they're fighting to go back up) did so without an academy at all. Think they have one again now but not sure what kind of state it's in, they scrapped it in 2012 and their official website makes no reference to there ever being a time when they didn't have one.

 

[AdamStag]

Exactly this -- And that is why we are trying to get a new stadium at the Fruit market. I am told things are progressing. Without it we will stay in the 4th . Our limit is 10K soon to be raised but still not big enough to progress. And this is no dig at the smaller gates clubs.

It depends what you do off the pitch like you state as well as dan.

As i’ve mentioned before if we were to go up or when we have larger/closer teams at this level we need more than 1700, even if it’s only another 7-800 that over 4 games is £64k (obv other things increase with larger away followings).

What is key is to make as much of possible from match day income and also other income, which we actually do pretty well.

 

[Indian Dan]

I'd say the gulf comes between mid-table and promotion-chasing L1. A lot of huge teams up there now and it's been getting that way for a while. Clubs like most of ours are in the mid-table L1 to top-end Conference level, not that's there's no difference in quality there but it's more a steady decline in quality across three divisions where the top end of one division is often on par with the bottom end of the division above.

Interesting that the latest club, potentially to bridge that gap, Wycombe (early days but the positive signs are that following relegation from the Championship, they're fighting to go back up) did so without an academy at all. Think they have one again now but not sure what kind of state it's in, they scrapped it in 2012 and their official website makes no reference to there ever being a time when they didn't have one.

The problem comes when a club has attracted players who they think can get them promoted, then fail to do so, and those players don’t want to hang around, afraid their stock is falling.

It’s the position we could be in after the season ends. Jack Payne and Louis Reed haven’t signed new contracts yet - obviously waiting to see if we go up or not. McKirdy, to his credit, has penned an extension.

 

[shoddycollins]

McKirdy, to his credit, has penned an extension.

McKirdy probably realises by now it's time to stop biting hands that feed him.

Do pass him on my thanks for his part in getting Millen and Holdsworth sacked though. I'm sure he'll be delighted to know that had he not turned up at Brunton Park earlier this season we could be relegated.

 

[masi51]

I said etc. Was the missed on purpose or by mistake? Improving or cemented on those leagues? Different questions.

You seem to think the difference in L2 & L1 is bigger than it is. You just have to look at cup games this season between the two to realise that's crap. You have no idea of the talent in our academy so I won't comment on your nonsense on that front. We have about 4 players under 18 currently that Bolton would wish they could snap up. Unfortunately they can't compete with the top 6 in the PL when it comes to grabbing our gems.

I see a lot of jealousy on these boards about how good our academy is and the difference in comparing us with Crewe is obviously a comparison lots make on the face of it without understanding the situation. Its a lazy and silly comparison. But I see why people do it, it's just stupid though.

Not at all...Cup games are just that and you will always get upsets. As for your Academy i dont need to know who you have Chelsea,Liverpool and Man City Academies get hammered each season in the Papa John Trophy.
Bolton are a selling team and we sold a player last season to Norwich for 250k He has yet to even get on the bench.
The is a reason you have a good Academy and that reason is your catchment area,yet we have let players go from our academy who are now International players and Premiership players so to compare Academies is stupid


You are doing it the right way in bringing players through then trading them on.......Even Southampton and West ham have done that in recent years

 

[AdamStag]

Not at all...Cup games are just that and you will always get upsets. As for your Academy i dont need to know who you have Chelsea,Liverpool and Man City Academies get hammered each season in the Papa John Trophy.
Bolton are a selling team and we sold a player last season to Norwich for 250k He has yet to even get on the bench.
The is a reason you have a good Academy and that reason is your catchment area,yet we have let players go from our academy who are now International players and Premiership players so to compare Academies is stupid


You are doing it the right way in bringing players through then trading them on.......Even Southampton and West ham have done that in recent years

Yes, my southampton friend didn’t take well to being labelled liverpool B

 

[Dirk Diggler]

I reckon FGR will have a massive say on who reaches the POs though. If we can beat them and they do the business against a host of other 6-pointers they have to play we may have a sniff.

You are surprisingly (although I dont know you) negative on that score. On Saturday evening due to the turgid nature of England's 2nd innings I objectively plotted the results of all 11 of those vying for automatic promotion and the playoffs. I'm glad to say that we finished 4th and secured a 2nd leg home tie in the playoffs. That despite drawing 4 and winning the remainder of our last 8 games. Here's hoping. For those interested (and why wouldn't you be) both versions of Rovers, Salford & Sutton miss out.

 

[GEORGE]

You are surprisingly (although I dont know you) negative on that score. On Saturday evening due to the turgid nature of England's 2nd innings I objectively plotted the results of all 11 of those vying for automatic promotion and the playoffs. I'm glad to say that we finished 4th and secured a 2nd leg home tie in the playoffs. That despite drawing 4 and winning the remainder of our last 8 games. Here's hoping. For those interested (and why wouldn't you be) both versions of Rovers, Salford & Sutton miss out.

So in your estimations Forest Green & Tranmere are going to miss out.

 

[AdamStag]

So in your estimations Forest Green & Tranmere are going to miss out.

Bristol?

 

[denzel ecfc]

So in your estimations Forest Green & Tranmere are going to miss out.

FGR are 1/200 to finish in the top three. Brave call.

 

[ExeterDan]

FGR are 1/200 to finish in the top three. Brave call.

Pretty sure he means Bristol and Tranmere

 

[Dirk Diggler]

Pretty sure he means Bristol and Tranmere

My mistake. Completely forgot that there are 3 Rovers. My prediction in order of finishing position is FGR (92), Exeter (86), Mansfield (83), Swindon (77), Vale (76), Cobblers (74), Newport (74), Gas (74), Tranmere (73), Salford (73) & Sutton (72)

 

[ExeterDan]

My mistake. Completely forgot that there are 3 Rovers. My prediction in order of finishing position is FGR (92), Exeter (86), Mansfield (83), Swindon (77), Vale (76), Cobblers (74), Newport (74), Gas (74), Tranmere (73), Salford (73) & Sutton (72)

I'd take that obviously, but to my optimistic but still realistic eye I reckon the most we'll get is 83.