Scottish fitba!

[rudebwoyben]

I do love the bold statement though, how many times have you seen St. Mirren play?

A few times on BBC Alba and seeing the highlights on the BBC website.
The fact is that a lot of SPL clubs are full of ex-League 2 and National League players. That says something.

 

[rudebwoyben]

View attachment 5915

Utterly meaningless. Besides, it doesn't stand up to scrutiny as their manager keeps agitating for the Wrexham manager post whenever it becomes vacant and their squad is full of players who stopped playing at Football League level years ago. Their budget is about £500k per season. Even the smallest club in League 2, Accrington Stanley has a budget twice as big as that and crowds five times as large.

 

[rudebwoyben]

http://nonleaguematters.co.uk/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_flat;post=571751;page=1;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;mh=25;guest=156169068T
The posters in this thread appear to agree with me too!

 

[St. Juste]

A few times on BBC Alba and seeing the highlights on the BBC website.
The fact is that a lot of SPL clubs are full of ex-League 2 and National League players. That says something.

I don't think that is true, at all. Which SPL clubs have 5 or more National League players?

Looking at the current St Mirren team, reminder bottom of the Championship, we have Andy Webster who came straight from League One Coventry - and has been our worst player this season.

Stephen McGinn who came from Wycombe in League Two, but also played Championship and League One level.

Adam Eckersley and John Sutton played for League One and League Two sides ages ago.

Gary MacKenzie and David Clarkson played extensively at League One level and Rory Loy at League Two. None of our current squad played in the National League, or any level below that.

It does take some level of dedication to watch Lower League Scottish football games on BBC Alba, I can't say I've ever even considered watching National League football

These discussions come up a lot on this forum, some lower league players have played well in the SPL, some SPL players have played well at EPL level. Some, like Gordon Greer, are released as not good enough for Kilmarnock before going on to captain leading Championship sides. It's an inexact science.

St. Mirren will usually be roughly as good as teams pulling in equivalent crowds in England - SPL sides will be the same with perhaps a slight premium, the top league in Scotland is most certainly a better shop window than League Two.

Regarding your forum post, I think it's entirely obvious that non league sides would overrate themselves relative to Scottish opposition. As, perhaps, the opposite is true for Scottish fans. Which is why I would suggest crowds to be the best measure.

Utterly meaningless. Besides, it doesn't stand up to scrutiny as their manager keeps agitating for the Wrexham manager post whenever it becomes vacant and their squad is full of players who stopped playing at Football League level years ago. Their budget is about £500k per season. Even the smallest club in League 2, Accrington Stanley has a budget twice as big as that and crowds five times as large.

That's what TNS clearly think of themselves. Was good to put them back in their box in what has been an unmitigated disaster of a season for us.

Incidentally, Coulibaly is a great example of this - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Souleymane_Coulibaly

Anyone remember the last time Al Ahly and Zamalek competed for a League Two player? Most players won't make great money in Scottish football, top 5 clubs except perhaps, but it's a great place to get a lucrative move.

 

[rudebwoyben]

Junior Agogo, who played for us in the Conference ended up at Zamalek - albeit not directly from us. Coulibaly is clearly an emerging talent who Al Ahly and Zamalek thought would be worth a gamble and that goal he scored at Celtic must have been great advertising for him even though KIillie lost 6-1 in the end!
All I can say is that TNS have an over-inflated sense of their standing, which no one shares with them. If you measure their standing solely on crowds then they'd be mid-Level 3 of the English Non-League pyramid. Regular European competition has inflated their standing a bit but not beyond National League North/South level.
As for SPL squads with ex-L2/National League players, just looking at Inverness Caley Thistle they have Ross Draper, Carl Tremarco, Owain Fon Williams, Greg Tansey and Scott Boden who all came directly from that level.

 

[St. Juste]

Junior Agogo, who played for us in the Conference ended up at Zamalek - albeit not directly from us. Coulibaly is clearly an emerging talent who Al Ahly and Zamalek thought would be worth a gamble and that goal he scored at Celtic must have been great advertising for him even though KIillie lost 6-1 in the end!
All I can say is that TNS have an over-inflated sense of their standing, which no one shares with them. If you measure their standing solely on crowds then they'd be mid-Level 3 of the English Non-League pyramid. Regular European competition has inflated their standing a bit but not beyond National League North/South level.
As for SPL squads with ex-L2/National League players, just looking at Inverness Caley Thistle they have Ross Draper, Carl Tremarco, Owain Fon Williams, Greg Tansey and Scott Boden who all came directly from that level.

Exactly, which is why I would think, assuming money was the same, SPL sides would be able to attract players easier than even League One teams - certainly the top half of the division. There can be no player, surely, who would choose a conference side over an SPL team.

TNS absolutely have an over-inflated sense of their own standing, we fully agree on that. Good to bring them down a few pegs.

To be fair, this is something ICT are famous for - and it has served them decently well. But this is the outlier not the norm, most SPL sides will have relatively few players signed directly from the conference.

 

[rudebwoyben]

Hmmm, Motherwell have Lewis Moult, Craig Clay, Ben Heneghan and Ryan Bowman, who all arrived directly from the National League!
As we said before, SPL clubs (apart from Newco FC) are running themselves better and if that means that they're signing players from League 2/National league level than better that than signing expensive foreigners at extortionate wages.

 

[Leo]

Hmmm, Motherwell have Lewis Moult, Craig Clay, Ben Heneghan and Ryan Bowman, who all arrived directly from the National League!
As we said before, SPL clubs (apart from Newco FC) are running themselves better and if that means that they're signing players from League 2/National league level than better that than signing expensive foreigners at extortionate wages.

Who is this Newco FC you talk of ? There is categorically no team whatsoever in the SPFL with that name. Best get your facts correct!

 

[SALTIRE]

Rangers beat, Celtic march on and Dundee hammer Motherwell 5 - 1 away!

 

[Leo]

Rangers beat, Celtic march on and Dundee hammer Motherwell 5 - 1 away!

I was too depressed to mention anything about that debacle at Inverness on Friday. Deplorable.

 

[Gulliball]

I am at St Mirren tonight funnily enough. Easy journey over from Edinburgh and right next to the station. I will let you know how good St Mirren are in 90 mins time. I expect worse than Hibs but a lot better than Torquay.

 

[Super_horns]

Well they won GB!

When can Celtic win the title?

 

[Gulliball]

I think about last October! I would have thought going the season unbeaten or getting a record points total would be their target now.

I think I got them on a good day, but St Mirren were excellent tonight. Hibs were an absolute shambles though - I can't remember even Torquay putting in a performance like that and we've had some shockers in recent years. At the end they had 5 strikers on the pitch and it was farcical how bad they were. Fans were not happy, and started leaving from about 60 minutes onwards. Every time a Hibs player knocked it out of play another ten or so would stand up, shout something angry and storm out. By the final whistle the away crowd was about 90% down on the start.

An unbelievable turnaround from 7 days ago when I went to the Edinburgh derby. Hibs absolutely destroyed Hearts, and it was the best atmosphere I've ever been in.

Next ground-hopping trip for me is in a fortnight. Clyde vs Edinburgh City, 8th vs 9th in League Two. Edinburgh had a massive win on Tuesday at Cowdenbeath, who are now 7 points adrift at the bottom and looking at a third straight relegation. Two seasons ago it was Rangers, Hibs and Hearts in the Championship, and next year it could be Stirling University in the Lowland league. This season they've also had their best player banned for 4 games for homophobic tweets, then sacked the same player for betting on them to lose in 5 games he played in, had one depart after being found guilty of rape in court and another on a domestic violence charge. I hope they can turn it around, as I liked their ground when I went last year and they could probably do with something to celebrate...

 

[Leo]

I am at St Mirren tonight funnily enough. Easy journey over from Edinburgh and right next to the station. I will let you know how good St Mirren are in 90 mins time. I expect worse than Hibs but a lot better than Torquay.

Excellent & much needed result for St Mirren. Funny how Hibs can up their game so much for the cup replay against Hearts then slump so badly a couple of games later. Btw, the player you mentioned about the rape....did you mean David Robertson who played with Cowdenbeath ?

 

[Leo]

I think about last October! I would have thought going the season unbeaten or getting a record points total would be their target now.

More like last bloody August. In reality it will be after the next 3 games if they win the 3 of them.

 

[Gulliball]

Excellent & much needed result for St Mirren. Funny how Hibs can up their game so much for the cup replay against Hearts then slump so badly a couple of games later. Btw, the player you mentioned about the rape....did you mean David Robertson who played with Cowdenbeath ?

Yes, Robertson and Goodwillie were tried together over the same incident, and he left the club the day after the verdict. Every time there's a "Club Statement" posted on their twitter page there's another blow.

Hibs had exactly the same problem last season too under Alan Stubbs. I went to watch them a few times whilst ground-hopping, as they're now my local side, and I saw them lose at Alloa (relegated), draw with Livingston (relegated), lose at Dumbarton (8th) and lose at Raith. 2 months later they won the Scottish Cup, having already reached the League Cup final, and beaten Aberdeen, Hearts, Cally Thistle, Dundee Utd and a few other top flight clubs along the way.

In the last month they destroyed both Dundee Utd in a big televised 1st vs 2nd match, then battered Hearts for the full 90 minutes. Around which though they've got 3 points in 4 games vs pretty much the bottom 4 teams in the league.

 

[Leo]

Yes, Robertson and Goodwillie were tried together over the same incident, and he left the club the day after the verdict. Every time there's a "Club Statement" posted on their twitter page there's another blow.

Hibs had exactly the same problem last season too under Alan Stubbs. I went to watch them a few times whilst ground-hopping, as they're now my local side, and I saw them lose at Alloa (relegated), draw with Livingston (relegated), lose at Dumbarton (8th) and lose at Raith. 2 months later they won the Scottish Cup, having already reached the League Cup final, and beaten Aberdeen, Hearts, Cally Thistle, Dundee Utd and a few other top flight clubs along the way.

In the last month they destroyed both Dundee Utd in a big televised 1st vs 2nd match, then battered Hearts for the full 90 minutes. Around which though they've got 3 points in 4 games vs pretty much the bottom 4 teams in the league.

 

[Leo]

Yes, Robertson and Goodwillie were tried together over the same incident, and he left the club the day after the verdict.

Just for your info (don't know if you are aware or not)....Neither Robertson nor Goodwillie were actually tried for any crime in a court of criminal law as the Crown Office declined to go ahead with any charge as they felt there was insufficient evidence to secure a conviction. Both players were taken to a Civil court by the victim and were found on the basis of 'probability' to have committed the alleged rape & ordered to pay the victim x amount. Not sure about Robertson but Goodwillie is appealing the decision.

 

[Gulliball]

I am aware of the complexities of the case. But it was enough to end both of their careers, and Robertson left Cowdenbeath within days of the verdict.

I want Edinburgh to stay up, but Cowdenbeath too would be good, just to give their fans a break.

 

[SALTIRE]

30 years on from Dundee Utd taking Barca the distance.

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...my-gemmell-dundee-united-anniversary-football

 

[Benji]

Kolo Toure is on to become the first player to have an invincible season with two different top division clubs. I haven't checked, but it's probably true.

 

[Super_horns]

Old Firm semi final then - Celtic will love beating Rangers again!

 

[Leo]

Old Firm semi final then - Celtic will love beating Rangers again!

Of course they will....can't argue with that simply because they are a far superior team at the moment and will be for a few years yet. Celtic had a dodgy first half yesterday against St Mirren going in 0-1 down. However they showed their class 2nd half to win comfortable.

Rangers had a decent performance on Saturday beating Hamilton 6-0 at Ibrox but tbh there were several periods of very unprofessional play...slack passes, mix ups between players, unable to make their minds up what to do with the ball etc. Garner got a hattrick, all well taken btw, but in reality he was one VERY lucky boy to not have been sent off for a blatant outrageous kick at Hamilton's Dougie Imrie. I think Garner really goes out looking for trouble. A good result but far from convincing performance imo, more that Hamilton were very poor.

 

[Leo]

Away to Celtic today...12 noon kick off. Expect to leave pointless. There's absolutely nothing in our team/play at the moment that gives me any confidence for this game. Hopefully we avoid a doing again.

 

[Super_horns]

New manager - not many have heard of him so guess its hard to judge.

 

[DarkSithLord]

New manager - not many have heard of him so guess its hard to judge.

He is only in the stands today.

 

[SALTIRE]

Got a draw there not too shabby? Dundee beaten again yesterday, so up and down.

 

[Leo]

Well, well.....what the fuck do I know eh? That certainly was a turn up for the books yesterday. Never in a hunner years did I think that Rangers could put in such a decent, decent....not great, performance at the home of Celtic. Make no mistake this was a deserved draw & I know Celtic had a good shout for a penalty at the death turned down (personally thought it was a pen) but Rangers via Martin Waghorn missed to great chances to score and I mean 'they should have gone in chances'. Not to take away from Celtic as they had chances too but not as glaringly obvious as Waghorn's. Overall I enjoyed the game apart from the fact that I lost a pile as I had bet over 2.5 goals. Still, not to worry....there's always the semi final......

 

[Super_horns]

Dundee beaten again yesterday, so up and down.

What happened tonight?

Did the players have a bet for Celtic to win the title at Hearts..

 

[Gulliball]

Aberdeen are just really good. That's now 14 wins in 16 and getting better by the week. Hit 7 past Motherwell last month as well.

This time last year Aberdeen were one point behind Celtic. If Delia was still in charge, Aberdeen could have a very good chance of the title with 75 odd points.

Tomorrow I'm going groundhopping at Dunfermline vs Hibs. Only 30 mins on the train and there should be around 4-5000 away fans, so hopefully a lively game to witness. A few more wins and Hibs will be back in the top flight.