South West v North West

[Casey]

Lancashire Gods country
Merseyside City Centre good the rest get out quick
Yorkshire Poor mans Lancashire
Cumbria Poison Acidic rain . Sea glows with Radiation
Cheshire manchester/scouse overspill of crooks
Potteries What England looked like around 1945
Geordies Jock castoffs
Lincolnshire 6 fingers
Birmingham Wannabee peaky Blinders
London 3 world City
Devon Cornwall Country Bumkins
Kent full of em
Essex talk like someones squeezing theire balls

We're so low we don't even rate a trolling effort!

Casey

 

[Camborne Gills]

Aren't Cornish Pirates in the 2nd tier?

i forgot about them tbh, though they are about as Cornish as I am.

 

[GEORGE]

You are right that it is only Bristol City who could conceivably represent the West Country in the Premiership.
FGR have ambitions to become a permanent Championship team within the not too distant future, but the Premiership would be a step too high.
Bristol Rovers have strong support and could also become a Championship team, but of the rest a fleeting appearance in League 1 would be a crowning achievement.

A. Bristol City -- Yes they could be a Premiership club . But they won't and the reason is the owner always goes for a cheap option when appointing a manager because he always wants to have total control and be bigger than the guy appointed.
B. Rovers and Plymouth have potential to be Championship clubs. But and theres a big but, Rovers need a new stadium first and Argyles problem has been attracting better players due to location.
C. Swindon and i think Exeter are ok for the Third division.
D. Cheltenham & FGR could get promoted but due to fan base will not be able to sustain Third div football.
E. Torquay will come back to their rightful position this year and dear old Yeovil will continue to grace the top flight of Non league for the forceable.

 

[FGR Stroud]

A. Bristol City -- Yes they could be a Premiership club . But they won't and the reason is the owner always goes for a cheap option when appointing a manager because he always wants to have total control and be bigger than the guy appointed.
B. Rovers and Plymouth have potential to be Championship clubs. But and theres a big but, Rovers need a new stadium first and Argyles problem has been attracting better players due to location.
C. Swindon and i think Exeter are ok for the Third division.
D. Cheltenham & FGR could get promoted but due to fan base will not be able to sustain Third div football.
E. Torquay will come back to their rightful position this year and dear old Yeovil will continue to grace the top flight of Non league for the forceable.

Very fair assessment.
I will disagree with you regarding FGR.
Within five years FGR will be moving to a far more built up location that will inevitably attract a raft of new supporters.
The club will never attract as many fans as traditional Premiership teams but numbers will probably be comparable to other Championship teams.
It always amazes me that FGR attract as much support as it does now. The club is at top of a hill, at the very edge of a small town in the middle of the countryside.

 

[Si Robin]

Given the international publicity the club has had over the past 5-10 years, any fans that are going to FGR now are the ones who will be going when FGR move to the M5.

They also have a newly monied Gloucester City to cope with now as well.

We had this discussion when I first signed onto this board 5 and half years ago and, but for FGR's promotion to the Football League, nothing has changed in that time. People aren't suddenly going to flock to a club because their ground is next to a motorway instead of up a hill.

 

[FGR Stroud]

People aren't suddenly going to flock to a club because their ground is next to a motorway instead of up a hill.

Perhaps but then perhaps not but crowds will rise when stadium is a lot closer to home of many fold than what it is now.

 

[masi51]

We're so low we don't even rate a trolling effort!

Casey

Crawley makes Milton Keynes Habitable

 

[Casey]

Crawley makes Milton Keynes Habitable

So many ways I could come back on that but I don't fancy derailing another thread.

Casey

 

[denzel ecfc]

Very fair assessment.
I will disagree with you regarding FGR.
Within five years FGR will be moving to a far more built up location that will inevitably attract a raft of new supporters.
The club will never attract as many fans as traditional Premiership teams but numbers will probably be comparable to other Championship teams.
It always amazes me that FGR attract as much support as it does now. The club is at top of a hill, at the very edge of a small town in the middle of the countryside.

"A far more built up location". Its next to the M5. If I lived in Gloucester I still wouldn't support them.
Dale Vince = Max Griggs.

 

[FGR Stroud]

"A far more built up location". Its next to the M5. If I lived in Gloucester I still wouldn't support them.
Dale Vince = Max Griggs.

If I lived in Gloucester I'd probably also support Gloucester City who incidentally won this evening.
Yes new stadium in next to M5 and thus convenient for more FGR supporters to attend home matches. And it is also MILES closer to urban Stonehouse and Stroud., almost within a short cycle ride.

As for your red herring of comparing the progress of FGR to D&R, I'll advise you that you are comparing day to night.
FGR have an ecological identity that firms are clamouring to sign up to. For instance we have Coca Cola as a sponsor as well as a multi-millionaire Premiership footballer. When Dale Vince does stand down as chairman the club will continue to retain these or other well known national sponsors. The future looks rosy whoever is chairman.
That was not the case with D&R.

 

[denzel ecfc]

Do you mean R&D? Surprised Vince signs up with multinationals like Coke, doesn't go along with Vegan ethica.

 

[County1]

A. Bristol City -- Yes they could be a Premiership club . But they won't and the reason is the owner always goes for a cheap option when appointing a manager because he always wants to have total control and be bigger than the guy appointed.
B. Rovers and Plymouth have potential to be Championship clubs. But and theres a big but, Rovers need a new stadium first and Argyles problem has been attracting better players due to location.
C. Swindon and i think Exeter are ok for the Third division.
D. Cheltenham & FGR could get promoted but due to fan base will not be able to sustain Third div football.
E. Torquay will come back to their rightful position this year and dear old Yeovil will continue to grace the top flight of Non league for the forceable.

Agree with most of that. Think Swindon could support a Championship side as they’ve done historically. We (Newport), given the size of the city, passion of the supporters and the history, can sustain a third tier side for a few years but that’s probably our limit at the moment. FGR can go one of two ways; Vince stays, they move to a new ground and can realistically be League One with the resultant new catchment. He gets fed up and they could go back to Southern League.

 

[Casey]

FGR were a consistent presence in the National league (as it is now called) before Vince came along.

Having said that, I'd be careful about expecting a new stadium/location to attract more fans. Colchester, I believe, had a bounce and have dropped back and it can have an impact on finances if a thriving clubhouse suddenly loses all its customers (which happened to us). One problem is access to free parking. If you've had it and suddenly have to pay for it....!

Not saying any of that will happen just pointing out that a new stadium doesn't solve all the problems.

Casey

 

[Clem Fandango]

Living in Gloucester and us being without a home ground for so long, I think Cheltenham certainly with the success they had under Cotterill picked up fans from here. In the North side of the City, places like Longlevens and Brockworth, there's a fair amount of Cheltenham fans. Which whilst it annoys me, I can't really argue too much with. 13 and a half years without a base in the City is a mental amount of time, and most now teenagers were barely out of nappies when our ground flooded. It would be much more appealing to hop on the bus for a few quid for 10 mins with your mates to watch League football than try and find a way of doing a 60 mile roundtrip to another County to watch Gloucester. Realistically Cheltenham over achieved under Cotterill though, League One is probably not a viable level with the crowds. It's more of a snobby area to sport than Gloucester is, bar horse racing of course.

I live in the South of the City and FGR, or Dale Vince, has made a real concerted effort this side to tap into the youth. Free tickets, free shirts etc. The difference is I just don't see the same reaction to what Cheltenham had and I'd be surprised if many from Gloucester regularly attend the Lawn. I do think he probably banked on us going out of business, which looked likely a few times, to then move closer to Gloucester. Glos has a 150,000 population and when you add in Stroud, Stonehouse and the surrounding areas all the sudden it's a different proposition for FGR.

Now we are back, top of the League and with fans (sell out last night) along with what appears to be a faltering rugby team things may change but who knows. Personally I wouldn't expect us to be knocking on the door of the FL in the next 3-4 years.

 

[County1]

FGR were a consistent presence in the National league (as it is now called) before Vince came along.

Having said that, I'd be careful about expecting a new stadium/location to attract more fans. Colchester, I believe, had a bounce and have dropped back and it can have an impact on finances if a thriving clubhouse suddenly loses all its customers (which happened to us). One problem is access to free parking. If you've had it and suddenly have to pay for it....!

Not saying any of that will happen just pointing out that a new stadium doesn't solve all the problems.

Casey

Fair point, though one of the reasons they were a consistent presence was because it was almost illegal to relegate them! They finished in relegation zone several times but were reprieved. For about 100 years before their successive promotions to National League they were lower reaches of Southern League, Hellenic or Glos leagues.

 

[shoddycollins]

If I lived in Gloucester I'd probably also support Gloucester City who incidentally won this evening.
Yes new stadium in next to M5 and thus convenient for more FGR supporters to attend home matches. And it is also MILES closer to urban Stonehouse and Stroud., almost within a short cycle ride.

Long term perhaps if you get kids in Gloucester and Stroud deciding who to support, FGR as a Championship club in a new stadium could be a more attractive proposition, but I thought Stroud was already maxed out on FGR supporters. In the short term I can't imagine many people in Gloucester would be swayed by the stadium being in a more accessible location.

Though it's difficult to attract people from these more affluent areas to attend a sport they might look down on as a pastime of thugs and lager lads, being an eco-friendly vegan club with a luminous green kit and in a few years a modern stadium probably helps. Which is related to my initial point, that there seem to be quite a few clubs in the South West that are able to get away from the old stereotype of football hooligans. Many Northern clubs still struggle with the local population assuming that if they attend a football match they're likely to get beaten up, very few of my freinds are into football and though some have expressed an interest in attending a game one day, they talk about it as though it's a big step for them, like asking them if they'd like to attend an illegal street-fight.

Bet there aren't many bars in Stroud who will turn away punters wearing FGR shirts because 'we don't want any trouble in here'.

 

[County1]

Living in Gloucester and us being without a home ground for so long, I think Cheltenham certainly with the success they had under Cotterill picked up fans from here. In the North side of the City, places like Longlevens and Brockworth, there's a fair amount of Cheltenham fans. Which whilst it annoys me, I can't really argue too much with. 13 and a half years without a base in the City is a mental amount of time, and most now teenagers were barely out of nappies when our ground flooded. It would be much more appealing to hop on the bus for a few quid for 10 mins with your mates to watch League football than try and find a way of doing a 60 mile roundtrip to another County to watch Gloucester. Realistically Cheltenham over achieved under Cotterill though, League One is probably not a viable level with the crowds. It's more of a snobby area to sport than Gloucester is, bar horse racing of course.

I live in the South of the City and FGR, or Dale Vince, has made a real concerted effort this side to tap into the youth. Free tickets, free shirts etc. The difference is I just don't see the same reaction to what Cheltenham had and I'd be surprised if many from Gloucester regularly attend the Lawn. I do think he probably banked on us going out of business, which looked likely a few times, to then move closer to Gloucester. Glos has a 150,000 population and when you add in Stroud, Stonehouse and the surrounding areas all the sudden it's a different proposition for FGR.

Now we are back, top of the League and with fans (sell out last night) along with what appears to be a faltering rugby team things may change but who knows. Personally I wouldn't expect us to be knocking on the door of the FL in the next 3-4 years.

Really interesting reading that. We had a similar thing having to reform in 1989 and play in the Hellenic League 80 miles away in Moreton-in-Marsh. Coupled with the fact that we had suffered successive relegations from Div 3 and Div 4 and were bottom of the Conference prior to folding, it meant that we lost a generation of supporters.
The journey back was a long one, with three years in exile and ongoing battles with FAW to stay in English pyramid. It took us 25 years to return to the Football League and we lost supporters to (whisper it!) Cardiff City and Sky TV. Our recent successes plus FA Cup runs have raised our profile significantly and we are clawing back supporters from the likes of Cwmbran and Pontypool who had deserted to the lot down the M4! Last season our average was around 4,000 which was more than the rugby and County shirts are a familiar site around the city. Will be interesting to follow Gloucester’s progress, given that we spent two years playing there too!

 

[Chris FGR]

Long term perhaps if you get kids in Gloucester and Stroud deciding who to support, FGR as a Championship club in a new stadium could be a more attractive proposition, but I thought Stroud was already maxed out on FGR supporters. In the short term I can't imagine many people in Gloucester would be swayed by the stadium being in a more accessible location.

Though it's difficult to attract people from these more affluent areas to attend a sport they might look down on as a pastime of thugs and lager lads, being an eco-friendly vegan club with a luminous green kit and in a few years a modern stadium probably helps. Which is related to my initial point, that there seem to be quite a few clubs in the South West that are able to get away from the old stereotype of football hooligans. Many Northern clubs still struggle with the local population assuming that if they attend a football match they're likely to get beaten up, very few of my freinds are into football and though some have expressed an interest in attending a game one day, they talk about it as though it's a big step for them, like asking them if they'd like to attend an illegal street-fight.

Bet there aren't many bars in Stroud who will turn away punters wearing FGR shirts because 'we don't want any trouble in here'.

We have a few idiots too tbf.

Shocked onlookers tell of carnage following "El Glosico" clash between Cheltenham Town and Forest Green

Shocked onlookers have told of the moment “all hell broke loose" in a posh spa town when up to 40 suspected football hooligans had a mass brawl. Children

www.thelondoneconomic.com

 

[shoddycollins]

We have a few idiots too tbf.

Shocked onlookers tell of carnage following "El Glosico" clash between Cheltenham Town and Forest Green

Shocked onlookers have told of the moment “all hell broke loose" in a posh spa town when up to 40 suspected football hooligans had a mass brawl. Children

www.thelondoneconomic.com

“It was very scary. I heard one lady said to another, ‘Surely not in Cheltenham?’ I thought the same.”

 

[FGR Stroud]

Living in Gloucester and us being without a home ground for so long, I think Cheltenham certainly with the success they had under Cotterill picked up fans from here. In the North side of the City, places like Longlevens and Brockworth, there's a fair amount of Cheltenham fans. Which whilst it annoys me, I can't really argue too much with. 13 and a half years without a base in the City is a mental amount of time, and most now teenagers were barely out of nappies when our ground flooded. It would be much more appealing to hop on the bus for a few quid for 10 mins with your mates to watch League football than try and find a way of doing a 60 mile roundtrip to another County to watch Gloucester. Realistically Cheltenham over achieved under Cotterill though, League One is probably not a viable level with the crowds. It's more of a snobby area to sport than Gloucester is, bar horse racing of course.

I live in the South of the City and FGR, or Dale Vince, has made a real concerted effort this side to tap into the youth. Free tickets, free shirts etc. The difference is I just don't see the same reaction to what Cheltenham had and I'd be surprised if many from Gloucester regularly attend the Lawn. I do think he probably banked on us going out of business, which looked likely a few times, to then move closer to Gloucester. Glos has a 150,000 population and when you add in Stroud, Stonehouse and the surrounding areas all the sudden it's a different proposition for FGR.

Now we are back, top of the League and with fans (sell out last night) along with what appears to be a faltering rugby team things may change but who knows. Personally I wouldn't expect us to be knocking on the door of the FL in the next 3-4 years.

In some ways the site of the new stadium is a bit close to Gloucester but it was the only land available that could host a new sports arena.
FGR will undoubtedly attract fans from Gloucester, who are not Gloucester City supporters because of chance of watching league football.
The close proximity of the two clubs could actually generate more local interest and support for both clubs.
TNL does not have any social life save for a couple of hours on match day.
The possibility of Gloucester going out of business has, as far I know, never been considered as an opportunity by FGR to gain more support. In fact our fans are pleased to read that your team have finally arrived back home and wish you well.

 

[The Jovial Forester]

I don't see it Tom, reckon at best we might slowly push the home average up to over 3,000 and settle as a Div 4 challenger / Div 3 struggler yo-yo club; the recruitment policy and wages are taking us closer to sustainability as a league club (ignoring past debts to DV) if the telly money doesn't collapse again, anything more than that seems like a pipe dream.

 

[Chris FGR]

I don't see it Tom, reckon at best we might slowly push the home average up to over 3,000 and settle as a Div 4 challenger / Div 3 struggler yo-yo club; the recruitment policy and wages are taking us closer to sustainability as a league club (ignoring past debts to DV) if the telly money doesn't collapse again, anything more than that seems like a pipe dream.

Bang on, needs to be some realism here. A big part of the reason Vince goes on about the Championship is to put pressure on the council to get planning permission. Realistically we are never going to be able to get near clubs at that level, clubs like Yeovil, Burton and now Wycombe might get up there for a year or two but clubs like that will never be able to compete there for long. And those clubs are all bigger then us.

If we are an established, sustainable football league club, like Morecambe/Crawley or at the very best Accrington in 10 years time we'll have done very well imo.

 

[Greenacres]

This seems to have turned into a really well balanced chat, about football in our part of the World, I wish our forum was as respectful at times. I saw a report a few years ago, possibly around the time that Si Robin mentioned having registered, about football and attendances in Gloucestershire. I have done my best to try and find it but have drawn a blank. The basis of the report was that the county is largely rugby orientated, for obvious reasons having a Premiership team here, and there was a limited audience for football.

The report suggested that there were roughly 6k people, give or take, who would regularly attend football and that figure was largely split between the three largest teams in the county. About 10-15 years ago when Cheltenham were going well in the league they regularly attracted around 4k, leaving the remainder to be split between the other two teams. That seemed about right to me as our gates were around 1k at the time, with Gloucester probably attracting a similar number. FGR then saw their gates increase towards the current average of around 2.5k, matched by Cheltenham declining slightly to 3.5k and now Gloucester back on the scene at their shiny new ground getting around 1k.

What will the future hold, who knows, will the comparative success of the football teams combined with the rugby team being a bit less attractive to watch see a greater interest in our game and attendances. This is the hard bit to predict, it is fair to say that a lot of rugby fans look down their noses at us, as some sort of inferior species...I can't really print what I think about them or that view as I don't want a ban for over use of obscenities...but I think you can all guess. What does please me, as someone who has moved to the West Country from elsewhere, is that we do have a successful football scene in the face of a pretty dominant rugby alternative...it probably needs someone like Bristol City to make it to the Premier League for us to get true recognition and maybe swing the balance in our favour.

 

[shoddycollins]

This seems to have turned into a really well balanced chat, about football in our part of the World, I wish our forum was as respectful at times. I saw a report a few years ago, possibly around the time that Si Robin mentioned having registered, about football and attendances in Gloucestershire. I have done my best to try and find it but have drawn a blank. The basis of the report was that the county is largely rugby orientated, for obvious reasons having a Premiership team here, and there was a limited audience for football.

The report suggested that there were roughly 6k people, give or take, who would regularly attend football and that figure was largely split between the three largest teams in the county. About 10-15 years ago when Cheltenham were going well in the league they regularly attracted around 4k, leaving the remainder to be split between the other two teams. That seemed about right to me as our gates were around 1k at the time, with Gloucester probably attracting a similar number. FGR then saw their gates increase towards the current average of around 2.5k, matched by Cheltenham declining slightly to 3.5k and now Gloucester back on the scene at their shiny new ground getting around 1k.

What will the future hold, who knows, will the comparative success of the football teams combined with the rugby team being a bit less attractive to watch see a greater interest in our game and attendances. This is the hard bit to predict, it is fair to say that a lot of rugby fans look down their noses at us, as some sort of inferior species...I can't really print what I think about them or that view as I don't want a ban for over use of obscenities...but I think you can all guess. What does please me, as someone who has moved to the West Country from elsewhere, is that we do have a successful football scene in the face of a pretty dominant rugby alternative...it probably needs someone like Bristol City to make it to the Premier League for us to get true recognition and maybe swing the balance in our favour.

Three clubs? What about Brimscombe & Thrupp? Think if anyone in Gloucestershire is going to establish themselves in the Championship it's them.

 

[FGR Stroud]

Including the huge area of The Forest Of Dean, Gloucestershire is known as a rugby mad county but that only applies for the top half of County: ie Gloucester/Cheltenham.
There are more Gloucester Rugby Union shirts worn in that conurbation than there are of all the other soccer teams put together.
Where FGR does have an advantage is that the Stroud Valley's are far less Rugby dominated.
Crowds will undoubtedly increase as the club becomes more successful and although the new stadium is small [5,000] by other traditional club support it has the potential to double its attendance seating.
That is why I am confident that FGR will soon become an ever present member of the First Division with perhaps a few seasons in the Championship.

 

[FGR Stroud]

Three clubs? What about Brimscombe & Thrupp? Think if anyone in Gloucestershire is going to establish themselves in the Championship it's them.

There are quite a few successful non-league teams in Gloucestershire.
Brimscombe & Thrupp is one,
Shortwood United which is also located in Nailsworth
Slimbridge
plus Cirencester and and Bishop Cleeve who are all local but located outside the Stroud area.

Gloucestershire County Football Association - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Brimscombe & Thrupp once hosted an Army v Navy game but realistically they have achieved all they will ever do. Championship football - never.

 

[GEORGE]

What a pity Brimscombe & Thrupp are about to exit the FA Vase this weekend. Come on Bridgy.

 

[The Jovial Forester]

Stonehouse Town used to be about the biggest in Stroud District but seem to have declined relative to teams like the Lilywhites.

 

[Si Robin]

Including the huge area of The Forest Of Dean, Gloucestershire is known as a rugby mad county but that only applies for the top half of County: ie Gloucester/Cheltenham.
There are more Gloucester Rugby Union shirts worn in that conurbation than there are of all the other soccer teams put together.
Where FGR does have an advantage is that the Stroud Valley's are far less Rugby dominated.
Crowds will undoubtedly increase as the club becomes more successful and although the new stadium is small [5,000] by other traditional club support it has the potential to double its attendance seating.
That is why I am confident that FGR will soon become an ever present member of the First Division with perhaps a few seasons in the Championship.

But where's your evidence that crowds will increase. As Greenacres said, there appears to be 6,000 or so regular football attendees in the county. Save for the initial interest of seeing a new stadium, and attendances being boosted by those "doing the 92", you have provided literally no evidence to support your assertion that they will "undoubtedly" increase.

Regarding Brimscombe and Thrupp, I watched them play Bishop's Cleeve in September. It was a lovely day out, cans sold from a fridge outside the bar, and some lovely scenery. I highly recommend a visit.

 

[Casey]

Glad to hear Gloucester are getting back to their proper place. Location as well as in the pyramid.

Those pictures of the flood water up to the crossbars in their ground were amazing it just seems so harsh that that cost them over a decade in exile (other things too).

Casey