Southend

[Shrimpurh]

Could never say that supporting this club is boring ha

 

[ForzaCounty]

You're such a positive chap.

I prefer to think of it as 'experienced'.

 

[Colinmorriswalksonwater]

Alongside former chief exec Geoff King. Serious Fraud Squad have brought the case to court and my understanding is it is to do with the football club rather than one of Ron's other businesses.

Absolutely and totally incorrect. It is everything to do with RM's other businesses.

It is nothing whatsoever to do with the club, although many people will make the same incorrect conclusion as you have done.

It is to do with the alleged failure to pay VAT on two land sale deals to Redrow Homes PLC.

The first is for a sales of land in Essex and a tax bill of £920,000 in 2016.

The second is for a sale of land in Cheltenham and a tax bill of £4.485m in 2019.

The case was adjourned until 23rd November, when it is scheduled to be heard in Crown Court.

 

[Kim Mitten]

That's good news for us as a football club, could be really good news for us if Ron is convicted as he'll actually be openly failing the fit and proper persons test. November 23rd is the biggest day for us as a club for many many years.

 

[ForzaCounty]

That's good news for us as a football club, could be really good news for us if Ron is convicted as he'll actually be openly failing the fit and proper persons test. November 23rd is the biggest day for us as a club for many many years.

So it's no coincidence he's got his son involved, Oyston-style

 

[Colinmorriswalksonwater]

That's good news for us as a football club, could be really good news for us if Ron is convicted as he'll actually be openly failing the fit and proper persons test. November 23rd is the biggest day for us as a club for many many years.

Spot on, could be a blessing in disguise. Especially with Stan being so active. In the past Stan has said he knows of people who would be prepared to make an offer for the club. Although I want to make clear, he has said nothing and at no time has he mentioned any type of consortium interest in the involvement he wants at this time.

 

[Colinmorriswalksonwater]

So it's no coincidence he's got his son involved, Oyston-style

None at all in my opinion and if found guilty, then we should be looking to take action to follow down the route of "not a fit and proper person" to run a football club and using the Oyston precedent to try and oust him imo.

 

[EnglishRed]

That's good news for us as a football club, could be really good news for us if Ron is convicted as he'll actually be openly failing the fit and proper persons test. November 23rd is the biggest day for us as a club for many many years.

Would that scupper the development? aren't Martin and his son the Directors of the development companies?

 

[Museshrimper]

That needs adjusting downwards accordingly, otherwise we'll find ourselves with the Southern version of Darlington. Which wouldn't be surprising as it appears that your owner might be just as mental as that Darlo owner was.

Have you ever been to Southend? One of the most densely populated parts of the country. Not exactly comparable to Darlo.

21k is still too big but only by about 5k really if want to build it with growth in mind. Not quite as extreme.

 

[John Still]

Have you ever been to Southend? One of the most densely populated parts of the country. Not exactly comparable to Darlo.

21k is still too big but only by about 5k really if want to build it with growth in mind. Not quite as extreme.

Populated by folk that have moved out of London and support other teams.

 

[SMH]

Have you ever been to Southend? One of the most densely populated parts of the country. Not exactly comparable to Darlo.

21k is still too big but only by about 5k really if want to build it with growth in mind. Not quite as extreme.

I’m going to be generous and say that when this ground is built, you’ll be a L2 club. Do you think you’ll attract 10k crowds at that level. Fair play if you do, I’m not going to pretend I know much about Southend and your fanbase. From the outside looking in, that’s very hard to believe. I’d say you need a Rotherham/Doncaster type new stadium build rather than a 20k seater. Don’t make the same mistake Dave Whelan did at Wigan. Yes it was all fine when we were in the Prem, but now we’ve got around 8500 home fans milling around a 25k seater and it’s grim.

 

[Kim Mitten]

So it's no coincidence he's got his son involved, Oyston-style

I think he's mainly got his son involved because of his son's property developing businesses rather than actively looking over his shoulder and then passing on the various SUFC related companies to his son. From the little I know of his son and what I've been told I don't actually think he'd want to be associated with SUFC or any of the related companies and he'd try and sell up as quick as possible if he was just handed them on a platter.

Would that scupper the development? aren't Martin and his son the Directors of the development companies?

Fingers crossed it does. It would certainly make a few people red faced in local and central government if they were seen to be handing over a £30M funding contract to a man who's in court for a £5.5M fraud.

I’m going to be generous and say that when this ground is built, you’ll be a L2 club. Do you think you’ll attract 10k crowds at that level. Fair play if you do, I’m not going to pretend I know much about Southend and your fanbase. From the outside looking in, that’s very hard to believe. I’d say you need a Rotherham/Doncaster type new stadium build rather than a 20k seater. Don’t make the same mistake Dave Whelan did at Wigan. Yes it was all fine when we were in the Prem, but now we’ve got around 8500 home fans milling around a 25k seater and it’s grim.

We don't need 20k seats and would only need them if the West Ham day trippers turned up to watch us win 2 games in the Premier Division. The first phase 14k is much more like it, but would be better with 4 stands instead of 3. Last time we were in the second tier we averaged 11k, with around 80% of games sold out, so we do need something more if we ever got back to the second tier and sustained it. But that's the issue, it's not happening any time soon and for our historical level of being a bottom half third tier team a stadium that holds 12k-15k would be more than adequate.

 

[rudebwoyben]

I think he's mainly got his son involved because of his son's property developing businesses rather than actively looking over his shoulder and then passing on the various SUFC related companies to his son. From the little I know of his son and what I've been told I don't actually think he'd want to be associated with SUFC or any of the related companies and he'd try and sell up as quick as possible if he was just handed them on a platter.


Fingers crossed it does. It would certainly make a few people red faced in local and central government if they were seen to be handing over a £30M funding contract to a man who's in court for a £5.5M fraud.



We don't need 20k seats and would only need them if the West Ham day trippers turned up to watch us win 2 games in the Premier Division. The first phase 14k is much more like it, but would be better with 4 stands instead of 3. Last time we were in the second tier we averaged 11k, with around 80% of games sold out, so we do need something more if we ever got back to the second tier and sustained it. But that's the issue, it's not happening any time soon and for our historical level of being a bottom half third tier team a stadium that holds 12k-15k would be more than adequate.

Under this government, showing an ability to sequester funds illegally is a qualification to grant you more public money.

 

[Shrimper92]

Have you ever been to Southend? One of the most densely populated parts of the country. Not exactly comparable to Darlo.

21k is still too big but only by about 5k really if want to build it with growth in mind. Not quite as extreme.

Part of it is also about getting more away fans in too

Getting to LG1 with teams like Sunderland and Charlton is the stable aim. Previously we're limited to 2k away fans but a bigger stadium means we can get more.

With the new stadium and LG1 football 14-15k average would be expected I think

It's about getting more off the pitch money to

 

[Museshrimper]

Populated by folk that have moved out of London and support other teams.

Becoming more true as years go by but so are most places in the south-east and that hasn't stopped the growth of Brentford and Brighton. Plenty of local-living Premier League daytrippers will be interested in going with nice facilities.

I’m going to be generous and say that when this ground is built, you’ll be a L2 club. Do you think you’ll attract 10k crowds at that level. Fair play if you do, I’m not going to pretend I know much about Southend and your fanbase. From the outside looking in, that’s very hard to believe. I’d say you need a Rotherham/Doncaster type new stadium build rather than a 20k seater. Don’t make the same mistake Dave Whelan did at Wigan. Yes it was all fine when we were in the Prem, but now we’ve got around 8500 home fans milling around a 25k seater and it’s grim.

We won't attract 10k crowds as we are but stadiums are longer-term investments. In successful seasons even at League 2 level, we had sellout games at Roots Hall e.g. Yeovil at home in 2005 (11,700).

With the population and decent-sized loyal fanbase already, Southend are an obvious candidate for growth, which is why having had Ron Martin stifle it for the past 10 years (and the rest) is frustrating.

 

[John Still]

Brentford and Brighton were teams on the up, years of being crap can make even the die hard fan think twice before attending as we know all too well.

 

[Museshrimper]

Brentford and Brighton were teams on the up, years of being crap can make even the die hard fan think twice before attending as we know all too well.

Brighton only left the Withdean 10 years ago. 6 years later they were Premier League.

I'm not claiming Southend can get near Brighton/Brentford - Bloom and Benham are immeasurably shrewder than anyone running SUFC - but it shows stadiums can be enablers to change everything in the right town city.

Obviously on the field has to change drastically or the stadium is a total waste of time.

 

[Colinmorriswalksonwater]

Absolutely correct, but we know that there is a catchment area that deliverers regular home attendances at the Championship level of 14k to 15k on a regular basis and would have sold more, with the extra capacity. that's not some model being rolled, that is based on the fact that we have been there and done it....twice!

What is also known is the fact that at Roots Hall, there is no scope for expansion and no other options for off the pitch revenue streams.

Fossetts would give us both. There is a fans plaza bigger than Trafalgar square with bars and restaurants in the development, plus a 107 room hotel and conference centre, parks and open space, along with 3 training pitches and an inside training dome, all of which can be hired for use by the community. So those thinking along the lines of Darlington's 35k stadium in the middle of nowhere, this is far different and with over 1,100 housing units it also creates a ready made community within a city that has a population in excess of 180,000 people already.

Indeed in the last zoom meeting, the revenue streams for the club from all aspects of the development are forecasted in the region of £13-15m per season.

Rent for the ground (tiered depending what level the club was playing at), payable by the club has also been quoted as not being charged by South Essex leisure, although, if success was achieved a small proportion would be called in. a sum in the region of £200,000 was mentioned at Championship level.

Projected commencement of the first phase, the training ground, is Q1 March next year, as long as the predicted OK is given by the Secretary of State in December.

All in all, this project is so much more than a stadium.....However more urgently we need a performing football team now, to still be in existence when the ground part is ready to move into.

 

[Stoney Ground]

Under this government, showing an ability to sequester funds illegally is a qualification to grant you more public money.

But like Harrow Councils dealings with Kleanthous

 

[Stoney Ground]

Absolutely correct, but we know that there is a catchment area that deliverers regular home attendances at the Championship level of 14k to 15k on a regular basis and would have sold more, with the extra capacity. that's not some model being rolled, that is based on the fact that we have been there and done it....twice!

What is also known is the fact that at Roots Hall, there is no scope for expansion and no other options for off the pitch revenue streams.

Fossetts would give us both. There is a fans plaza bigger than Trafalgar square with bars and restaurants in the development, plus a 107 room hotel and conference centre, parks and open space, along with 3 training pitches and an inside training dome, all of which can be hired for use by the community. So those thinking along the lines of Darlington's 35k stadium in the middle of nowhere, this is far different and with over 1,100 housing units it also creates a ready made community within a city that has a population in excess of 180,000 people already.

Indeed in the last zoom meeting, the revenue streams for the club from all aspects of the development are forecasted in the region of £13-15m per season.

Rent for the ground (tiered depending what level the club was playing at), payable by the club has also been quoted as not being charged by South Essex leisure, although, if success was achieved a small proportion would be called in. a sum in the region of £200,000 was mentioned at Championship level.

Projected commencement of the first phase, the training ground, is Q1 March next year, as long as the predicted OK is given by the Secretary of State in December.

All in all, this project is so much more than a stadium.....However more urgently we need a performing football team now, to still be in existence when the ground part is ready to move into.

All that revenue going to Southend or Ron’s companies.

 

[#Beebot]

But like Harrow Councils dealings with Kleanthous

Any evidence for that or are you guys still bitter?

 

[Stoney Ground]

Any evidence for that or are you guys still bitter?

Lots of evidence, in all the original agreements for Harrow Council allowing your club to use the land. Bitter yes as Harrow residents have been sold down the river by Councillor Ferry and your owner.

Are you happy your owner and his other companies own the site not BFC, once he goes your Back to Barnet Campaign can start again.

Remind me what was the referendum results he held for you leaving the Borough.

 

[#Beebot]

Lots of evidence, in all the original agreements for Harrow Council allowing your club to use the land. Bitter yes as Harrow residents have been sold down the river by Councillor Ferry and your owner.

Are you happy your owner and his other companies own the site not BFC, once he goes your Back to Barnet Campaign can start again.

Remind me what was the referendum results he held for you leaving the Borough.

Did you guys sue over this issue? If not why not?

I'm still amazed by Wealdstone fans who think we like our chairman. We really don't.

 

[Stoney Ground]

Did you guys sue over this issue? If not why not?

I'm still amazed by Wealdstone fans who think we like our chairman. We really don't.

Very difficult to sue when things are done underhandedly over the cause of years, when you don’t have the finances to take it to court. Just like Harrow Council, oh look Councillor Ferry. TK wants Ferry gives.

https://moderngov.harrow.gov.uk/documents/s150335/PHD%20011%20Camrose-%2012-3-2018%20final%20version%202.pdf

I know Barnet fans don’t like him, says a lot for their morals. Enjoy playing at Totteridge one day.

 

[Robshep]

I’m going to be generous and say that when this ground is built, you’ll be a L2 club. Do you think you’ll attract 10k crowds at that level. Fair play if you do, I’m not going to pretend I know much about Southend and your fanbase. From the outside looking in, that’s very hard to believe. I’d say you need a Rotherham/Doncaster type new stadium build rather than a 20k seater. Don’t make the same mistake Dave Whelan did at Wigan. Yes it was all fine when we were in the Prem, but now we’ve got around 8500 home fans milling around a 25k seater and it’s grim.

The proposed new stadium for Tranmere Rovers will have a capacity of around 15,000 to start with. Plenty for us.

 

[Colinmorriswalksonwater]

All that revenue going to Southend or Ron’s companies.

All the revenue from the off the pitch activities tied into the stadium part of the development and the, hotel, conference centre, the estimated 13-15m/season going to the club. Rent where appropriate going to Ron's companies. Affordable housing revenue going to Southend borough council.

 

[Kim Mitten]

Under this government, showing an ability to sequester funds illegally is a qualification to grant you more public money.

In that case Ron will have £100M!

All that revenue going to Southend or Ron’s companies.

Here lies the issue for me, it's just Oxford United and Kassam all over again. Ron's pretty much said he wants his money back from the club and I can just see him selling whilst keeping the stadium and revenue streams. This projected £15M a year extra revenue, no way that's coming the football clubs way, we'll be lucky to see 10% of that with Ron in charge and lucky to see any of it when he goes. This stadium benefits one person and one person only.

What is also known is the fact that at Roots Hall, there is no scope for expansion and no other options for off the pitch revenue streams.

That's actually not true. I used to do sponsorship with a friend who is an architect who at the time worked for the company that built the Emirates and MK Franchise stadium. He's been very sceptical about Fossetts from the very first public unveiling, which we attended.
At the next club do we went to he presented Ron with a brief summary and portfolio of how Roots Hall could be redeveloped, by turning it 90 degrees, for a third of the cost and incorporate significant non-football revenue with conferencing centre.
He's always maintained that Fossetts is a plan to make Ron Martin and co rich and not to help the football club become a sustainable, viable entity.

 

[Stoney Ground]

Turning the ground 90degrees, we had a plan like that for Lower Mead in the 70s.

 

[Colinmorriswalksonwater]

That's actually not true. I used to do sponsorship with a friend who is an architect who at the time worked for the company that built the Emirates and MK Franchise stadium. He's been very sceptical about Fossetts from the very first public unveiling, which we attended.
At the next club do we went to he presented Ron with a brief summary and portfolio of how Roots Hall could be redeveloped, by turning it 90 degrees, for a third of the cost and incorporate significant non-football revenue with conferencing centre.
He's always maintained that Fossetts is a plan to make Ron Martin and co rich and not to help the football club become a sustainable, viable entity.

Interesting and thanks for that background..... although RM always said that the redevelopment of Roots Hall was essential to the plan. (We all know why, as that is where he will make the mainstay of any profit from this project) and now that Fossett's has been passed, at this moment in time any discussion on refurbishing Roots Hall is irrelevant. for the time being anyway......

 

[Kim Mitten]

Turning the ground 90degrees, we had a plan like that for Lower Mead in the 70s.

Yep, Roots Hall actually has quite a lot of space around it, especially when you take into account some of the other property that has been bought up that could be cleared as well.
My friend's fancy plan for re-development even has underground parking and players walkway past bars and shops into the stadium like we're a European super club!