The Bolton (Relegation) Thread

[Robshep]

Haha did most of you not hate us before that?

Maybe a healthy dislike.

 

[shoddycollins]

as Bolton are now on 54 points can we officially lock this thread?

I thought this was just 'the relegation thread'... the relegation thread usually gets named after a club that are either expected to struggle, or start the season poorly.

 

[Son of Cod]

I thought this was just 'the relegation thread'... the relegation thread usually gets named after a club that are either expected to struggle, or start the season poorly.

Ooooh look at me, I haven't actually even had to look in the proper relegation thread this season.

 

[Son of Cod]

I think the not playing by the rules is a bit harsh. We played by the ‘rules’ to get to the prem in the first place. Our debt was mainly to our owner and benefactor who helped spend the money in the first place (although a chunk of the debt was actually interest that kept accruing) If we hadn’t been relegated we would have been fine. The real issue was when he ran out of money/became unwell and didn’t want to continue so he looked to sell the club. He tried to sell the club for quite a few years then we end up with a rogue owner in Ken Anderson via/in conjunction with Dean Holdsworth. Ken Anderson was banned from being the director of a business several years before this for certain financial irregularities. But we had no choice. It was basically this or fold like Bury and Macclesfield who couldn’t get a deal done. He is apparently one dodgy bastard. Then he withdrew funding/didn’t have the money in the first place, didn’t pay players or staff etc But him and his agent son sat pretty on 6 figure salaries. Our current owners are a different species to those crooks.

I know a few of the players reps and have family who during Eddie Davies era were heavily involved at the club. Still got contacts. At the beginning of the season this was offset with the likes of Liam Gordon, Mascoll etc who were on less than a grand a week. U21 players don’t count towards salary cap and if you factor in several teams have 5 plus loans in their squad paying anywhere from 0%-100% wages ( plenty of loans are kids under 21 so don’t count towards cap) You can fiddle the salary cap with loans too by paying a loan fee and 0% wages. Don’t think Bolton can because of embargo though. So in reality you have a few u21s,5 loans and in a squad of 22-25 how many players are you actually paying as part of the cap? 15?

I understand where you are coming from but sarc is from Manchester so wanted to move closer to his family. Doyle came because of a 3 year deal (a risk I agree at 32). Not specifically for the wage. For arguments sake if everyone is under salary cap in this league and can pay similar wages within that cap and you could play for anyone in the league as a player that has no affiliation with a club which one would you choose? We have probably the best infrastructure/stadium/ training facilities. We are trying to play good football. We are possibly the most ambitious as we are desperate to get back up the leagues. I think most players would choose Bolton if offered equal terms. Some people may disagree.

Well I don't know exactly who you think you are, coming round these parts with your well constructed arguments and convincing opinions but I'm considering putting you on ignore.

I don't think not playing by the rules is particularly harsh though. Regardless of who it is at the club that's screwed you over, it's still happened internally. Whatever happened and any ramifications that followed is obviously incredibly harsh on the fans, but somebody somewhere in the upper echelons of the club who should have known better allowed this all to happen. Whether it's the board relinquishing power to nefarious crooks or whoever isn't necessarily relevant. The issue I have with clubs that have broken the rules and gone through the ringer in some way, is when they immediately bounce back and begin spending beyond their means again. Which, despite what you're saying, I wouldn't be surprised this is what's going on at Bolton this season. I reckon there's no way anyone is running sustainably this season, the only clubs coming out in the black will be those that have sold players. We've been ran really well in terms of finances since coming back into the league, but I'm worried about how we're gonna come out of this. It's almost certainly our biggest or joint biggest wage budget in the past decade due to Hurst coming in and bringing in a load of new players. The only way to solve this hit is if it gets swallowed up by the takeover or by Peterborough selling Siriki Dembele.

 

[stevowanderer]

Well I don't know exactly who you think you are, coming round these parts with your well constructed arguments and convincing opinions but I'm considering putting you on ignore.

I don't think not playing by the rules is particularly harsh though. Regardless of who it is at the club that's screwed you over, it's still happened internally. Whatever happened and any ramifications that followed is obviously incredibly harsh on the fans, but somebody somewhere in the upper echelons of the club who should have known better allowed this all to happen. Whether it's the board relinquishing power to nefarious crooks or whoever isn't necessarily relevant. The issue I have with clubs that have broken the rules and gone through the ringer in some way, is when they immediately bounce back and begin spending beyond their means again. Which, despite what you're saying, I wouldn't be surprised this is what's going on at Bolton this season. I reckon there's no way anyone is running sustainably this season, the only clubs coming out in the black will be those that have sold players. We've been ran really well in terms of finances since coming back into the league, but I'm worried about how we're gonna come out of this. It's almost certainly our biggest or joint biggest wage budget in the past decade due to Hurst coming in and bringing in a load of new players. The only way to solve this hit is if it gets swallowed up by the takeover or by Peterborough selling Siriki Dembele.

Hahaha. No that is fair enough and you make valid points. Obviously none of us are fully aware yet of the financial affect covid is having on any of the clubs but I’m sure it’s not good. And we won’t truly understand any club’s sustainability until the next set of accounts come out. Another thing with Bolton is we have other businesses like the hotel (again probably struggling at the moment) and we have large amounts of development land and car parks around the ground that we own (some still have charges/loans against) valued between 10 and 20 million depending on who you believe plus the stadium. A lot of people interested in buying us only really wanted the development land like Bassini (my god what a crackpot he is).

We will find out in the future if this all unravels for any of our clubs which it could do. Once we come out of covid we will be putting on concerts again, boxing, darts and rugby league. We have conferencing at the hotel. Great streams of revenue for the club. I’m sure some other clubs do this too but I know this is a big part of what we want to do going forward maximising our revenue streams outside of football as well.

 

[stevowanderer]

Well I don't know exactly who you think you are, coming round these parts with your well constructed arguments and convincing opinions but I'm considering putting you on ignore.

I don't think not playing by the rules is particularly harsh though. Regardless of who it is at the club that's screwed you over, it's still happened internally. Whatever happened and any ramifications that followed is obviously incredibly harsh on the fans, but somebody somewhere in the upper echelons of the club who should have known better allowed this all to happen. Whether it's the board relinquishing power to nefarious crooks or whoever isn't necessarily relevant. The issue I have with clubs that have broken the rules and gone through the ringer in some way, is when they immediately bounce back and begin spending beyond their means again. Which, despite what you're saying, I wouldn't be surprised this is what's going on at Bolton this season. I reckon there's no way anyone is running sustainably this season, the only clubs coming out in the black will be those that have sold players. We've been ran really well in terms of finances since coming back into the league, but I'm worried about how we're gonna come out of this. It's almost certainly our biggest or joint biggest wage budget in the past decade due to Hurst coming in and bringing in a load of new players. The only way to solve this hit is if it gets swallowed up by the takeover or by Peterborough selling Siriki Dembele.

Sorry just to add to your point about sustainability.. we sold 7000 season tickets in first 2 weeks they were on sale. Rumours are final sales were higher and vast majority of fans haven’t asked for refunds as they were given ifollow passes and other incentives. I don’t know exact figure. Our season tickets range from 275-349 for adults. Plus cheaper alternatives for older and younger fans. This is all speculative but average price between 200-250 quid. Say we sold 8000 at average of 225 quid (purely speculative) .. that’s 1.8m. Salary cap is 1.5m. Plus revenue for tv, sponsorship, final position, youth allocation, theres unallocated money passed down the leagues too which can be a few hundred k every season, you even get 10k for winning a JPT game. I’d say we can’t be too far away from being sustainable. I know there are other staff costs (although some will still be on furlough) bonuses, we may be over the cap etc but even worst case scenario how much would the owners have to put in to break even? Can’t see it being much despite covid. This is purely speculative so I might be wrong?

 

[GTFCfish]

You're unfortunately suffering for Masi's sins, everyone hates Bolton on here because of him.

I don’t hate Bolton and I don’t hate Masi either.
I think Masi is a fool but it doesn’t go any further than that.

 

[Robshep]

Sorry just to add to your point about sustainability.. we sold 7000 season tickets in first 2 weeks they were on sale. Rumours are final sales were higher and vast majority of fans haven’t asked for refunds as they were given ifollow passes and other incentives. I don’t know exact figure. Our season tickets range from 275-349 for adults. Plus cheaper alternatives for older and younger fans. This is all speculative but average price between 200-250 quid. Say we sold 8000 at average of 225 quid (purely speculative) .. that’s 1.8m. Salary cap is 1.5m. Plus revenue for tv, sponsorship, final position, youth allocation, theres unallocated money passed down the leagues too which can be a few hundred k every season, you even get 10k for winning a JPT game. I’d say we can’t be too far away from being sustainable. I know there are other staff costs (although some will still be on furlough) bonuses, we may be over the cap etc but even worst case scenario how much would the owners have to put in to break even? Can’t see it being much despite covid. This is purely speculative so I might be wrong?

We could make about £300,000 out of this Pizza Trophy run. Thats 20% of the salary cap. Unless a club in this division is secretly owned by a multi billionaire i do not think any would turn their noses up at that.

 

[White horse]

Sorry just to add to your point about sustainability.. we sold 7000 season tickets in first 2 weeks they were on sale. Rumours are final sales were higher and vast majority of fans haven’t asked for refunds as they were given ifollow passes and other incentives. I don’t know exact figure. Our season tickets range from 275-349 for adults. Plus cheaper alternatives for older and younger fans. This is all speculative but average price between 200-250 quid. Say we sold 8000 at average of 225 quid (purely speculative) .. that’s 1.8m. Salary cap is 1.5m. Plus revenue for tv, sponsorship, final position, youth allocation, theres unallocated money passed down the leagues too which can be a few hundred k every season, you even get 10k for winning a JPT game. I’d say we can’t be too far away from being sustainable. I know there are other staff costs (although some will still be on furlough) bonuses, we may be over the cap etc but even worst case scenario how much would the owners have to put in to break even? Can’t see it being much despite covid. This is purely speculative so I might be wrong?

Bolton are getting revenue from away matches via ifollow, in a normal season you would take next to nothing from an away match. Plus money from home i follow sales and there would not be the normal police and matchday costs. Plus the Covid relief grant the premiership provided and though welcome could not have have been legislated for and should help bridge the matchday deficits.

 

[Vanni]

It’s obviously true by the business they did, when a team start signing higher quality it’s usually because they are willing to offer more money.

IOW, it's safe to say that Morecambe's secret is out. They're another one of those 'what is a wage cap?' clubs. Not once did I ever envisage little Morecambe going toe to toe with the likes of Bolton, Tranmere, Leyton O, Mansfield and Salford, while all the other clubs comply with this wage cap business imposed by the FL

That old saying is true then. If you can't beat them, join them.

 

[Conker]

Honestly

IOW, it's safe to say that Morecambe's secret is out. They're another one of those 'what is a wage cap?' clubs. Not once did I ever envisage little Morecambe going toe to toe with the likes of Bolton, Tranmere, Leyton O, Mansfield and Salford, while all the other clubs comply with this wage cap business imposed by the FL

That old saying is true then. If you can't beat them, join them.

We have a frontline of Jordan Bowery and Jamie Reid, pittance mate

 

[stevowanderer]

Bolton are getting revenue from away matches via ifollow, in a normal season you would take next to nothing from an away match. Plus money from home i follow sales and there would not be the normal police and matchday costs. Plus the Covid relief grant the premiership provided and though welcome could not have have been legislated for and should help bridge the matchday deficits.

Good point. I do like ifollow. Nothing beats being in the ground and home team should get the bulk of the revenue in my opinion. Think that would fairer but if i could go to home games and pay a tenner to watch away games on ifollow...happy days

 

[stevowanderer]

We could make about £300,000 out of this Pizza Trophy run. Thats 20% of the salary cap. Unless a club in this division is secretly owned by a multi billionaire i do not think any would turn their noses up at that.

Exactly. Good money that especially at this level

 

[shoddycollins]

We could make about £300,000 out of this Pizza Trophy run. Thats 20% of the salary cap. Unless a club in this division is secretly owned by a multi billionaire i do not think any would turn their noses up at that.

Do we know who owns Morecambe yet? I remember it being a massive mystery a couple seasons back.

 

[masi51]

Bit early to be laughing, lads. Best squad in the league. Best ground. Best fans. Best hotel. Only a matter of time before they win the league.

Mystic Meg................................pity you never put anything on the 250/1 at the time for winning said league


Never mock !!!

 

[masi51]

But if they sacked him and got somebody else in it could be in their best interests as the new guy could spend loads of cash in January to turn their season around as they are nowhere near the salary cap as they’ve hardly spent anything so far, Masi said so

Seems like Masi is correct AGAIN