The drug policy thread.

[Stagat]

Friend of a friend wrote this. More of a personal blog post than owt official. Interesting run down, I thought.

Fighting the War for Your Psychological Freedom: Drug Policy, Consciousness & Our Future

 

[Techno Natch]

Yeah enjoyed that thanks for sharing. The only bit I disagree on is that you have to have used drugs to give good advice on how to use them safely. Some people who have used drugs use them in a really irresponsible way and pass down bad habbits to new users so there is no guarantee in learning that way. Also one of the most knowledgeable people I know on the subject had never used any drugs but she was probably the exception to the rule. I do agree with the overall point though that to many people are giving drugs advice who know absolutely nothing about them or are not allowed to go off script and give proper advice.

As for psychedelics I think that more people would find them beneficial than negative. Indeed all the research indicates this and I am sure it will not be long until we see their use in the medical world at the very least.

 

[Dr Mantis Toboggan]

psychedelics are also incredibly dangerous to those with mental health issues though. heard one person describe a bad trip as the closest a sane person can come to total psychosis, which i can understand some what. a lot of people with bad, underlying issues can have them surface when the trip goes awry

 

[Techno Natch]

All drugs are dangerous to people with mental health problems when they are abused.

Did your friend have underlying mental health needs? Its not clear from the post.

I did originally put that they are a very personal choice to but deleted it. They aren't for everyone that's for sure.

 

[Arkan]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-35749080

 

[Techno Natch]

One of a number of groups coming out lately and saying the same thing. We're getting there even though our government are pushing ahead with the psychoactive bill. Sadly things have to get worse here before they get better.

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

A good moves for the Lib Dems especially. This can make them relevant again.

 

[Dr Mantis Toboggan]

it seems parties have drug liberalisation down as cornerstones of their policy every election but nothing comes of it. same with bringing back standing at footy

 

[SUTSS]

I think public opinion still has some to shift for a party to be able to deliver it. I don't think we're far off but I do think that in 50 years time we'll look back and think 'why was all this stuff illegal?'.

 

[Techno Natch]

I agree it still needs work locally. On an international level though things are moving much quicker. The UN general assembly will be interesting next month.

There are so many organisations working on this now that it's only a matter of time. So many countries are tired of the war on drugs, I read yesterday that 54% of women prisoners in Mexico are there because of non violent drug offences. How many homes ruined for no reason? Truly crazy.

The movement here really need to focus on the fact that the death rate from drug use is at an all time high.

 

[Dr Mantis Toboggan]

possession is legal in mexico now isn't it

 

[Renegade]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...a-is-finally-doing-what-the-drug-war-couldnt/

It'll happen one day, the positives far outweigh the negatives in legalising such a safe drug and this is coming from someone who thinks that weed sucks. Legalise MDMA instead. Or all of them pls.

 

[Techno Natch]

http://volteface.me/psychoactive-substances-bill-postponed-indefinitely/

It seems that the unworkable and incoherent Psychoactive Substances Bill is going to be postponed.

 

[Renegade]

http://metro.co.uk/2016/03/25/the-u...dical-mdma-should-the-uk-follow-suit-5774894/

A couple of weeks ago, reports that MDMA could be available on prescription in the near future in the USA.

 

[Dr Mantis Toboggan]

and overnight millions of americans develop ptsd

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

To be honest I'm not sure prescription MDMA is the best of ideas. It's not something that you can really take regularly without messing with your serotonin and causing depression. It was my understand was that it's only really useful when used in conjunction with therapy.

 

[Dr Mantis Toboggan]

good point actually

 

[Renegade]

I agree, it shouldn't be taken too regularly (at what frequency does it become a physiological issue? Once every few months should be fine, right?), but it certainly has therapeutic effects. Even taking it once can change an insular person's outlook on life into something far less ego-centric. For some depressed individuals, where their own problems are everything, this simple change of perspective could immeasurably impact their life for the positive.

I have never been depressed, but it has had this sort of impact on my life, from a cynical outlook to one of optimism (which people may or may not believe based on my posting style). The trials need to be run of course, but I really believe it would do even more for people with depression. Not to mention that you can make life-long friends/tighter relationships in a night just by releasing the shackles and being honest with others. And it's unbelievably fun (that's where the danger comes in).

And with prescription; begets decriminalisation, regulation, less crime and less danger. It just makes sense.

 

[Dr Mantis Toboggan]

shulgin recommended once every 3 months as a general rule i think

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

Yikes. I was doing it most weekends in my late teens/early 20s.

 

[Techno Natch]

Yeah the general advice is once every 3 months. There is not much solid research that has been done though and clearly people use it a lot more than that.

All of the above concerns will of course be factored into this. Someone doing threshold amounts in a therapeutic way is quite different to someone putting in 200+mg plus whatever else with no sleep 2-3 times a month.

 

[madvillainy]

Nice to see some well informed views on this matter, on me lunch today I was reading an article posted on the Newcastle Chronicle about what a Lib Dem elect in the area has said in favour in legalising weed lately and the comments were just ridiculous.

People claiming weed took a perfectly sane and bright young man into a depressed shell of himself, and when posed with the argument that firstly this could have happened through abuse of any drug including alcohol and secondly that this was more than likely a result of abuse as mentioned before, they point blank refused it and claimed weed actually develops psychosis in people when as I'm sure you're all aware there's absolutely nothing to back this up. Just plain refused to take anything on board, so I think in this country we will definitely need a massive shift in opinion.

As someone still young, who has experienced a broad amount of drugs and for a period of about 3-4 years I'd definitely say abused both party drugs and psychedelics I'm a total advocate for legalisation and reform. If you're in a city over here and have one or two people lets say 'ITK' drugs aren't that difficult to get hold of, even if you don't know many people you just have to be in particular places to have them offered to you. Aren't we better off replacing this with a system where we can regulate and research into the different substances to further educate those who are going to try them regardless of their legal status? Now this isn't me saying absolutely everything should be legalised, I've tried DMT and can tell you for certain that not everybody should be able to go on that (life changing) journey. But certainly things such as weed, MDMA, probably shrooms and a few others which if in moderation are as harmful as a night on the lash should be, it's a huge hole in our economy which could boost this country massively.

Main point of this errrm, rant?, is education of drugs though. So many people have false perceptions thanks to ancient propaganda against certain drugs or don't know what effects can come from abusing certain drugs (e.g. smashing loads of ket will had a detrimental effect on your bladder, luckily I seem to have got away with that one and no longer touch the stuff)

 

[Tilbury]

https://www.theguardian.com/science...rain-revealed-groundbreaking-images?CMP=fb_gu

Very interesting.

 

[Dr Mantis Toboggan]

everyone of sound mental health should give psychadelics a go at some point. nothing like it really

 

[blade1889]

Is this part of the study you were involved in Natch?

 

[sl1k]

Never tried LSD, will give it a go sometime. cheers guys.

I did mdma once by accident, drank my mates cup that had a ridiculous amount of it in. Is the experience anything like that?

 

[Dr Mantis Toboggan]

noooooo. it's very rare to get visuals from mdma but not unheard of. it's normally mda people see stuff on. lsd is fucking insane, u need to be in the right place for your first time as it could get weird. also need to be with the right people, good friends a must and even better good friends who've tripped before. get some good music on, get a notepad and even better a paintbrush and paint or some crayons and a canvas and roll with it. it's often good to have an adventure or a goal. something as simple as going to the store to buy some ciggies takes on an epic new dimension when you're tripping balls and having a quest is good fun. but i'd advise starting at home or at a mate's then playing it by ear. nature trips are always good ofc but still, if it's your first time the comfort of your home is probably best to start off in, just get ready to wander off on an adventure later on if the need arises

 

[sl1k]

Sounds friggin epic mate. It'll be tough to set up a sesh as most of the boys are the booze and blow types, the guys that'd appreciate hallucinogens are all married with moany missus' or moved up north so difficult to get em together

Didn't find the mdma experience all that tbh even though I was off my rockers on it. Sounds like I'd wanna start out indoors with LSD even though I'm usually really good with handling trips and that.

 

[Techno Natch]

Is this part of the study you were involved in Natch?

No mate mine was with Psilocybin. This research is pretty epic though and really interesting. I find Nutts last comments particularly interesting and they make sense.

Yeah Ian's advice is pretty good. I agree with doing inside the first time and personally I prefer doing it in the day so it's nice to go out. I love them when I'm outside and we have a lovely park just across the road from us.

Ian mentioning the park reminded me of a trip I had a few weeks ago where my girlfriend needed to pick up a prescription when we'd planned to trip. We took it around an hour and half before leaving as it takes some time to come on normally but it ended up coming on really quickly and it was stronger than normal. By the time we got to the doctors we were a giggling mess and everything seemed to take ages. The shop after was equally hilarious. Not sure how we got through it and me and my friends have some amazing times.

I also advise to get a test kit. I always feel more relaxed when things get a bit weird if I know the substance is what I think it is. I had a "difficult" experience recently because I felt sick but I couldn't associate the symptoms with sickness and so I thought something was going badly wrong physically. Basically I thought I might be dying and it really forced me to think about a lot of shit! What kept me from getting to lost was that I knew what it was and I was with my partner who was great. Once I was sick all the feeling had gone and I was fine although a bit raw after and had to put on some relaxing music. Psychedelics can make everything seem very real. I was glad of the experience though.

Psychedelics' are beautiful but to be respected. Learn about doses etc and use erowid to research what you can. Also listen to some Psy Trance it sounds amazing under the influence.

In terms of MDMA if you were not aware you were taking it or of the dose it probably affected the experience some what. It doesn't compare to Psychedelics at all but it really gave me scope to sort out some shit in my life. Again test kits and doses help.

 

[Dr Mantis Toboggan]

mdma is rarely mdma tbh. and when it is it's normally mixed up with a bunch of other stuff. pure mdma is unbeatable though, i've had some of the best nights of my life rolling with strangers or just cuddling it out with mates