The England Squad thread

[Christian Slater]

Hendo's boss, a proper player as captain now - you may have half a chance. Rooney is finished both for England and Man Utd.

Rooney is finished but at least he had a start and a middle. Henderson is the kind of player we should be hoping a kid can come through and replace, not settle for, especially as captain!

 

[SALTIRE]

Rooney is finished but at least he had a start and a middle. Henderson is the kind of player we should be hoping a kid can come through and replace, not settle for, especially as captain!

He's going to be your captain, leader, legend for years to come and fully deserves it

 

[Christian Slater]

He's going to be your captain, leader, legend for years to come and fully deserves it

I'd trade you Darren Fletcher for him. If he deserves it we're rewarding failure on a whole new scale.

 

[SALTIRE]

I'd trade you Darren Fletcher for him. If he deserves it we're rewarding failure on a whole new scale.

Who makes better captain material for England at the moment anyway, there is a paucity of options and Henderson stands out a mile as the best choice.

 

[Christian Slater]

Who makes better captain material for England at the moment anyway, there is a paucity of options and Henderson stands out a mile as the best choice.

Rashford. He's the only good player.

 

[SALTIRE]

Rashford. He's the only good player.

Jesus you are in trouble if you think he's the answer.

 

[G-Dragon]

England and their fans should be proud that Jordan "hendo" Henderson will be their captain tomorrow.

 

[epic73]

Why are there so few English players abroad? I think the entire team is Premier League.

 

[claret50]

Why are there so few English players abroad? I think the entire team is Premier League.

It's where the big money is, even for average players.

 

[Look Out There Are Llamas]

Why are there so few English players abroad? I think the entire team is Premier League.

 

[epic73]

Name another one.

 

[Pagnell]

Southgate gone up in my estimation. It's about time an England manager had the bollocks to do what needed to be done with Rooney. Like with United he's backup these days with better options available in every position he can play. No player should be shoehorned into a squad for sentimental reasons and that was what had started to happen.

 

[Super_horns]

Will this be the end or will this be like McLaren dropping Beckham - then recalling him months later?

 

[Pagnell]

I doubt it will be the end yet, and nor should it be. Southgate was at great pains to point this out in fact. I'm not a big Rooney fan and have always thought him overrated, but even I believe he still has qualities the England team can use if it's done correctly, similar to his role at Manchester United. He should no longer be an automatic starter for England, and that has been the case for some time for me. But as a sub and maybe an influence in the dressing room he could make a difference. Needing a goal in the 75th minute for example, throw him on and he could bring something different to the game.

The captaincy should go to someone else though, and at the moment there is no one better than Henderson for that role. Having the captain be a player that isn't a regular starter doesn't really make sense.

 

[AFCB_Mark]

How many players are there you would say are nailed on starters for England right now? It's a real struggle to think of any standouts.

Hart? Certainly was but maybe not anymore.
Perhaps Stones and certainly Dier will be permanent fixtures in time but aren't there yet. I suspect one of them will become captain at some stage.

Walker, Henderson and Kane are probably as close as we have to 'first names on the team sheet if they're fit' at the present moment. Henderson is the only one of those 3 with captaincy experience. So it's a no brainer, for now.

Whether he'll remain captain and/or a regular starter for years to come is another matter entirely.

 

[JimJams]

Name another one.

Ravel Morrison.

 

[JimJams]

On Henderson as captain. This is the lad that let Balotelli take the ball off of him, despite being the designated penalty taker. He puts his all in, so effort isn't an issue, but he's not exactly got the backbone has he?

 

[Pagnell]

Is that your one piece of evidence for that particular claim?

 

[Dirk]

Why are there so few English players abroad? I think the entire team is Premier League.

claret50 already answered it. Why should English players go abroad when the PL pays the most even for "average Joe" (ok (average)Joe Hart is now in Italy but we know the reasons why)

I would be happy if all German Players would be playing in the Bundesliga, would make it easier for the Bundestrainer to follow them closely. So his coaching staff has to fly to England, Spain, Italy to watch some of them and see their fitness.

about Rooney: About time. But I think this is only temporarily.

 

[St. Juste]

You clearly didn't watch the Spurs game were he stopped Sunderland getting an absolute pasting, it's easier to say he's not all that because he made one mistake though i suppose.

The lad is top class, he was unbelievable for us, you only have to look at how many clean sheets we kept while he was with us to after he left. Have a look at the goal he set up for Redmond for the U21's aswell, his distribution is quality.

Sunderland haven't kept a clean sheet in the league all season, and the only one they did was against Shrewsbury.

I've not sure he's made just one mistake, but he's let in quite a few goals against average teams - three at home to Everton and Crystal Palace.

Will he be a top class keeper? Well, he's 22 and started the season behind Vito Mannone in the pecking order. By that age Buffon was already Italy number 1, and one year away from being the most expensive keeper of all time. Gianluigi Donnarumma was already 1st choice for AC Milan a full five years before this. Iker Casillas was already Real Madrid number 1 and a Spain international.

David De Gea and Thibaut Courtois were already number 1s at much bigger clubs.

And I could go on and on.

Will he reach the heights of any of these players? Well, maybe, but the evidence doesn't really suggest so. Doing well for Preston doesn't make you the next Buffon. Indeed Tom Heaton, the player he replaced for England, seems to have a remarkably similar career to Pickford - I think it's far more likely he'll have a career akin to Heatons, as opposed to Donnarummas.

I'd trade you Darren Fletcher for him. If he deserves it we're rewarding failure on a whole new scale.

Darren Fletcher has achieved far more in his career than Henderson will ever get to.

My memory is a bit hazy here, who do you think is the worst player to ever captain England? Both officially and on a match to match basis. Henderson probably shades Cahill, did Jagielka ever captain England?

 

[JimJams]

Is that your one piece of evidence for that particular claim?

That and he does Nivea adverts.

 

[AnimoEtFide]

Is there really any need for a designated England captain? All it seems to do is make certain players undroppable irrespective of form. Just give it as a matter of course to whichever player on the pitch has the most number of caps.

 

[Pagnell]

That and he does Nivea adverts.

Shit, I forgot about that.

 

[Modernist]

Is there really any need for a designated England captain? All it seems to do is make certain players undroppable irrespective of form. Just give it as a matter of course to whichever player on the pitch has the most number of caps.

Never really understand why we have such an obsession about who the captain is, other nations don't seem to elevate the captains status like we do.

 

[AFCB_Mark]

Sunderland haven't kept a clean sheet in the league all season, and the only one they did was against Shrewsbury.

I've not sure he's made just one mistake, but he's let in quite a few goals against average teams - three at home to Everton and Crystal Palace.

Will he be a top class keeper? Well, he's 22 and started the season behind Vito Mannone in the pecking order. By that age Buffon was already Italy number 1, and one year away from being the most expensive keeper of all time. Gianluigi Donnarumma was already 1st choice for AC Milan a full five years before this. Iker Casillas was already Real Madrid number 1 and a Spain international.

David De Gea and Thibaut Courtois were already number 1s at much bigger clubs.

And I could go on and on.

Will he reach the heights of any of these players? Well, maybe, but the evidence doesn't really suggest so. Doing well for Preston doesn't make you the next Buffon. Indeed Tom Heaton, the player he replaced for England, seems to have a remarkably similar career to Pickford - I think it's far more likely he'll have a career akin to Heatons, as opposed to Donnarummas.

I'm unsure why you've jumped to the very best keepers in the game as the standard by which to rubbish Pickford. That's somewhat harsh!

In any case, stick Buffon, Casillas, De Gea, or Courtois behind that Sunderland team in the Premier League, and they'd all be picking the ball out of the net multiple times most weeks. For example, was Scotland being battered by France in the summer the responsibility of David Marshall? Rather on the balance of play, didn't Marshall in fact deserve credit for keeping the score at 3?

Pickford is a developing keeper with some potential, some talent in a mixture of shot stopping and distribution. Sunderland fans have been calling for him to be given games for some time now, and I hope his run as first choice keeper continues. All the best to him, I hope he doesn't go the way of Ross Turnbull and ruin a potential high level career by moving to Chelsea's bench for 4 years. Getting so much action playing for Sunderland might aid development so long as his confidence doesn't get hit too much. He needs nurturing and we'll see where he ends up.

 

[LeylandWhite]

Sunderland haven't kept a clean sheet in the league all season, and the only one they did was against Shrewsbury.

I've not sure he's made just one mistake, but he's let in quite a few goals against average teams - three at home to Everton and Crystal Palace.

Will he be a top class keeper? Well, he's 22 and started the season behind Vito Mannone in the pecking order. By that age Buffon was already Italy number 1, and one year away from being the most expensive keeper of all time. Gianluigi Donnarumma was already 1st choice for AC Milan a full five years before this. Iker Casillas was already Real Madrid number 1 and a Spain international.

David De Gea and Thibaut Courtois were already number 1s at much bigger clubs.

And I could go on and on.

Will he reach the heights of any of these players? Well, maybe, but the evidence doesn't really suggest so. Doing well for Preston doesn't make you the next Buffon. Indeed Tom Heaton, the player he replaced for England, seems to have a remarkably similar career to Pickford - I think it's far more likely he'll have a career akin to Heatons, as opposed to Donnarummas.



Darren Fletcher has achieved far more in his career than Henderson will ever get to.

My memory is a bit hazy here, who do you think is the worst player to ever captain England? Both officially and on a match to match basis. Henderson probably shades Cahill, did Jagielka ever captain England?

All the keepers you listed would concede goals with that Sunderland defence in front of them because the majority of the time they're wank.

Jack Butland and Jordan Pickford will be the two keepers fighting it out for the number 1 spot for England in the future and for me and many others who've seen him play reguarly Pickford takes it.

You can't compare Heaton and Pickfords careers yet, Heatons 30, Pickfords only 22, at 22 Heaton was still playing in the championship.

 

[Pagnell]

I'm unsure why you've jumped to the very best keepers in the game as the standard by which to rubbish Pickford.

Because he's English.

 

[St. Juste]

I'm unsure why you've jumped to the very best keepers in the game as the standard by which to rubbish Pickford. That's somewhat harsh!

In any case, stick Buffon, Casillas, De Gea, or Courtois behind that Sunderland team in the Premier League, and they'd all be picking the ball out of the net multiple times most weeks. For example, was Scotland being battered by France in the summer the responsibility of David Marshall? Rather on the balance of play, didn't Marshall in fact deserve credit for keeping the score at 3?

Pickford is a developing keeper with some potential, some talent in a mixture of shot stopping and distribution. Sunderland fans have been calling for him to be given games for some time now, and I hope his run as first choice keeper continues. All the best to him, I hope he doesn't go the way of Ross Turnbull and ruin a potential high level career by moving to Chelsea's bench for 4 years. Getting so much action playing for Sunderland might aid development so long as his confidence doesn't get hit too much. He needs nurturing and we'll see where he ends up.

Well, it's in direct response to he 'the lad is top class' comment - so of course, I'm comparing him to top class keepers. If the statement was 'the lad has the potential to be a Premiership goalkeeper' I'd be comparing him against, I don't know, Vito Mannone. Or I probably wouldn't bother comparing him to anyone as I'd agree he has the potential to be a Premiership goalkeeper. Is he a top class keeper? Obviously not. Will he be? Probably not, the evidence isn't on his side on that one.

It's a bit whataboutery, you could say any keeper is Buffon standard they just have a rubbish team in front of them. Except it's not like that at all, and if Pickford was comparable to Buffon at 22 he'd be playing at a better team, and would have been Englands first choice for the past 4, 5 years. He may well have had some good games, it doesn't tell you very much. Probably the best goalkeeping performance of recent years came from Boaz Myhill. This is the one that sticks out in my head - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...enham-Hotspur-0-Hull-City-0-match-report.html

Goalkeepers can have great games, pretty mediocre goalkeepers can be great shot stoppers, but you need so much more than that to be a truly excellent goalkeeper. Will Pickford become that? Again, maybe. But at no point in any of the keepers' I've mentioned career were they conceding three at home to Crystal Palace and Everton - if he really was that good he'd be doing better, it's as simple as that. As for blaming the defence, he has internationals in front of him and goalkeepers have to take a certain amount of responsibility for that too.

I'd agree with your final paragraph, he's got quite lucky that Mannone is out but this is his chance and Mannone isn't exactly that good himself so he might end up #1 at a poor team and keep quite busy. I'm not having a go at him, just challenging the assertion that he's amazing, certain England number 1 and is, or is going to be, a top keeper. The evidence doesn't support that, it supports a kid who has come into the Premier League and, in my opinion, not looked that good in a poor team. Maybe he'll get better, maybe he won't, time will tell.

All the keepers you listed would concede goals with that Sunderland defence in front of them because the majority of the time they're wank.

Jack Butland and Jordan Pickford will be the two keepers fighting it out for the number 1 spot for England in the future and for me and many others who've seen him play reguarly Pickford takes it.

You can't compare Heaton and Pickfords careers yet, Heatons 30, Pickfords only 22, at 22 Heaton was still playing in the championship.

I really don't think they would - nor would they be playing for Sunderland at that stage in their career.

That may or may not be the case, I haven't really seen the fuss for either player yet. And there is usually someone else who might emerge later in their career.

Because he's English.

To be fair, if he wasn't English - and wasn't called up - people wouldn't be getting that excited about him.

Szczesny is someone who, at Pickfords age, looked like he'd be quite special. Really hasn't worked out that way.

 

[JimJams]

So you're using arguably the best keeper in history as the yardstick for 'top class' then. And you think that's fair?
Which goalkeepers in history actually merit being considered 'top class' then if the measure is to be better than what's currently the best but possibly one of the best ever.

 

[silkyman]

So you're using arguably the best keeper in history as the yardstick for 'top class' then. And you think that's fair?
Which goalkeepers in history actually merit being considered 'top class' then if the measure is to be better than what's currently the best but possibly one of the best ever.

That Rashford is ok, but he's no Pele.