The General England Euro 2016 Thread

[JimJams]

Quotes n stuff.

But you're presenting the argument that it was a choice between Wilshere and Drinkwater. Why? Also he's had 2 England appearances and was MOTM in one. Not a lot more he could do really. I don't get the idea that it was him or JW. What about Henderson? What about Milner? Even Barkley or Lallana? There's also seems to be widespread discrediting of Drinkwater because Kante has come to the fore. It's as though he's rode on the Frenchmans coat tails all season. The fact that Kante didn't start the season for us and when he did he wasn't played in the mid next to Drinkwater, all the while with the team still playing effective football with DD at the heart of things seems to be not forgotten, but not even realised. People are doing him a disservice, people who watch very very little of him I'd imagine and put some basic maths together of 'Oh his partner is top drawer, he's probably not very good' or 'All he does is punt it long to Vardy' when neither are true.
I've seen it said that if he were a player at a big club he'd be in the side, and I think there's a lot of truth in that. He's played nearly every game (every game that mattered, we'd won it prior to his suspension) for the league winners. How is it that Henderson warrants a place ahead of him? He's been injured but even when he wasn't his form was poor. He offers nothing that DW doesn't. Hodgson is either sticking with him because he's a Liverpool player or it's loyalty to a player that helped the side get to the tournament. There's also a bit of a conspiracy 'apologist' theory that Roy is trying to appease Liverpool fans by bringing as many of their players as he can fit, but that's all a bit tin foil hat.

I'd have absolutely no problem with his exclusion if it were a case where the manager said that he doesn't fit his style of play, that he isn't what the side needs. But if he doesn't fit it neither does Henderson, as he offers nothng that DD doesn't. Hendersons main attribute has been his engine. If anything, Drinkwater betters him in that respect, even moreso given the Liverpool man has been injured. Defensively his stats are better than any non defender in that side.

Edit: Having said all that, I'm not too bothered he hasn't gone. He's not a starting 11 player or an integral cog in the machine, so it's not a catastrophic loss that he isn't in the side. I don't think anybody expected he'd be in the starting lineup so there's not real outrage. It's just making sense of the fact that worse players, who have had poorer seasons and spent a lot of time out injured getting in ahead of someone whose season couldn't have gone much better.
The real pisser will come if Vardy doesn't start, and if he doesn't start down the middle. That would be a crime against humanity! This is just a misdemeanour.

 

[PoolieTom]

Think the squad points towards a diamond midfield which I'm pleased about.

---------------Dier---------------
---------Alli--------Wilshere--
-------------Rooney------------
---------Kane-----Vardy------

This is how I'd lineup personally.

If we line up with this midfield I will be jumping straight back on a flight home... Square pegs in round holes and what not..

I haven't read all 20 pages of this thread, but I hope someone has said that we should be playing players in their best positions, and not shoe-horning them in here there and everywhere.

 

[Krazy8]

If we line up with this midfield I will be jumping straight back on a flight home... Square pegs in round holes and what not..

I haven't read all 20 pages of this thread, but I hope someone has said that we should be playing players in their best positions, and not shoe-horning them in here there and everywhere.

That's a midfield specifically designed to fit our best players in, who's out of position there?

 

[Hurrikeen]

If we line up with this midfield I will be jumping straight back on a flight home... Square pegs in round holes and what not..

I haven't read all 20 pages of this thread, but I hope someone has said that we should be playing players in their best positions, and not shoe-horning them in here there and everywhere.

Not really sure what your logic is here?

Dier is a holding midfielder.
Wilshere the left sided central midfielder.
Alli as the box to box midfielder.
Rooney in the hole.

Makes perfect sense, and it's a MF which I think Woy, sorry Roy, will go with.

Hart

Walker - Cahill - Smalling - Rose

Dier

Alli - Wilshere

Rooney

Kane - Vardy
​

 

[JimJams]

I think he'll go with that too. Though if we're talking players in their best positions then Alli should be in place of Rooney and bring in a different mid to partner Wilshere.

 

[Madglover]

That is what I'd go with based on this squad

Although not a chance that one of Henderson or Lallana won't start sadly

 

[Vale on Trent]

But you're presenting the argument that it was a choice between Wilshere and Drinkwater. Why? Also he's had 2 England appearances and was MOTM in one. Not a lot more he could do really. I don't get the idea that it was him or JW. What about Henderson? What about Milner? Even Barkley or Lallana? There's also seems to be widespread discrediting of Drinkwater because Kante has come to the fore. It's as though he's rode on the Frenchmans coat tails all season. The fact that Kante didn't start the season for us and when he did he wasn't played in the mid next to Drinkwater, all the while with the team still playing effective football with DD at the heart of things seems to be not forgotten, but not even realised. People are doing him a disservice, people who watch very very little of him I'd imagine and put some basic maths together of 'Oh his partner is top drawer, he's probably not very good' or 'All he does is punt it long to Vardy' when neither are true.
I've seen it said that if he were a player at a big club he'd be in the side, and I think there's a lot of truth in that. He's played nearly every game (every game that mattered, we'd won it prior to his suspension) for the league winners. How is it that Henderson warrants a place ahead of him? He's been injured but even when he wasn't his form was poor. He offers nothing that DW doesn't. Hodgson is either sticking with him because he's a Liverpool player or it's loyalty to a player that helped the side get to the tournament. There's also a bit of a conspiracy 'apologist' theory that Roy is trying to appease Liverpool fans by bringing as many of their players as he can fit, but that's all a bit tin foil hat.

I'd have absolutely no problem with his exclusion if it were a case where the manager said that he doesn't fit his style of play, that he isn't what the side needs. But if he doesn't fit it neither does Henderson, as he offers nothng that DD doesn't. Hendersons main attribute has been his engine. If anything, Drinkwater betters him in that respect, even moreso given the Liverpool man has been injured. Defensively his stats are better than any non defender in that side.

Edit: Having said all that, I'm not too bothered he hasn't gone. He's not a starting 11 player or an integral cog in the machine, so it's not a catastrophic loss that he isn't in the side. I don't think anybody expected he'd be in the starting lineup so there's not real outrage. It's just making sense of the fact that worse players, who have had poorer seasons and spent a lot of time out injured getting in ahead of someone whose season couldn't have gone much better.
The real pisser will come if Vardy doesn't start, and if he doesn't start down the middle. That would be a crime against humanity! This is just a misdemeanour.

In my opinion, I'm no fan of Henderson's and hope he doesn't start, however I'd say he's a better player than Drinkwater. Drinkwater was poor against Australia and that was probably a factor that has gone against him. For example, Rashford scored and showed he was a threat and therefore made it impossible for Roy to not pick him.

The only decision I'd perhaps criticise is taking Barkley over Townsend, for the simple fact that we are limited on wingers.

 

[RavenBish]

Henderson is genuine dogshit. I have no idea why more isn't made of it. Drinkwater should have definitely gone but he wouldn't have started and likely wouldn't have played at all barring an injury to Dier so it's no great drama.

Hart
Walker Cahill Smalling Rose
Dier
Alli Wilshere
Lallana
Vardy Kane

Sterling, Sturridge and Rooney off the bench. Not bad at all imo.

 

[mistermagic]

Can't see Hodgson dropping Rooney for any game (well, perhaps Slovakia if England already have top spot in the bag).

I see that Houdini agrees with me re Rashford: the kid will be barely play.

 

[smat]

Can't see Hodgson dropping Rooney for any game (well, perhaps Slovakia if England already have top spot in the bag).

I see that Houdini agrees with me re Rashford: the kid will be barely play.

Whoever filled the 23rd spot would have barely played. Rashford's worth a punt. Other players can also get injured.

 

[SamScfc]

Journalist on talksport now saying Vardy 'hasn't got a chance, not a prayer' of starting against Russia, I know he's only a journalist and not in the dugout but you can see it being true.

A few weeks ago I was really confident of maybe the semis but now I'm hearing Roy speak more I'm getting worried, this has been a great season for English players and he just seems to be messing it up and holding people back, he'll end up not starting Vardy or playing him out wide.

He's just an absolute dinosaur and I have no faith in him whatsoever, the balance of the team is shocking and we all know he is tactically poor and loves picking square pegs in round holes.

Midfield diamond, give Rooney a free role, Vardy and Kane upfront and I think we can be dangerous. If we play a 4-2-3-1, which I think he will as he isn't brave enough to pick an attacking line up or drop his favourites then we'll end up with sterling and lallana out wide.

And finally, if you're struggling to understand why Wilshere is going, it's because he's our best player.

 

[Renegade]

Don't talk nonsense. England only have one truly world class player.

Z to the O to the RRO.

Current England player rankings in terms of world classiosity:

1) Kane
2) Alli
3) Hart
4+) The rest.

Wilshere is definitely England's second best midfielder though and absolutely should be starting at the Euros.

 

[Big Bird]

If we line up with this midfield I will be jumping straight back on a flight home... Square pegs in round holes and what not..

I haven't read all 20 pages of this thread, but I hope someone has said that we should be playing players in their best positions, and not shoe-horning them in here there and everywhere.

What's your midfield v Russia Tom?

 

[ProfessorGreen]

---------------------Hart----------------------

---------Cahill - Smalling - Stones-------
Clyne --------------------------------- Rose

-------------Alli - Rooney - Dier------------

----------------Kane - Vardy-----------------

Full backs bombing up the wing.

 

[Cheese & Biscuits]

---------------------Hart----------------------

---------Cahill - Smalling - Stones-------
Clyne --------------------------------- Rose

-------------Alli - Rooney - Dier------------

----------------Kane - Vardy-----------------

Full backs bombing up the wing.

Not a chance I'd start all 4 of our CB options in one game. We'd be stuffed if we got injuries.

 

[ProfessorGreen]

Not a chance I'd start all 4 of our CB options in one game. We'd be stuffed if we got injuries.

Move Dier back, take Cahill out and put Wilshere in midfield.

 

[Carver]

Confirmed England line up for Euro's..

 

[leedsvaliant]

Confirmed England line up for Euro's..

Although clearly a wind up, you could see Roy trying to get Lallana, Henderson and Milner in the same team!
For me, we have to play the players in form and the players most likely to get us goals. 3 definite starters for me would be Alli, Vardy and Kane - they'd strike fear into any team.

 

[PoolieTom]

That's a midfield specifically designed to fit our best players in, who's out of position there?

Alli and Wilshere.

Not really sure what your logic is here?

Dier is a holding midfielder. Correct
Wilshere the left sided central midfielder. I disagree - Wilshere is not the best player in any position in midfield, he shouldn't even be on the plane. Besides, his best games for England have come as a defensive midfielder, but he showed on Friday that he isn't capable of playing this position right now.
Alli as the box to box midfielder. Has Alli EVER played as a box to box midfielder? It's certainly not a position he has got his reputation from.
Rooney in the hole. Rooney again not the best player in this position.

Makes perfect sense, and it's a MF which I think Woy, sorry Roy, will go with.

Hart

Walker - Cahill - Smalling - Rose

Dier

Alli - Wilshere

Rooney

Kane - Vardy
​

Dier is a holding midfielder. Correct
Wilshere the left sided central midfielder. I disagree - Wilshere is not the best player in any position in midfield, he shouldn't even be on the plane. Besides, his best games for England have come as a defensive midfielder, but he showed on Friday that he isn't capable of playing this position right now.
Alli as the box to box midfielder. Has Alli EVER played as a box to box midfielder? It's certainly not a position he has got his reputation from.
Rooney in the hole. Rooney again not the best player in this position.

If Roy persists with a diamond, we have absolutely no chance of winning this tournament. If he didn't know before, I hope the two friendlies have shown him this is not the way forward.

What's your midfield v Russia Tom?

For me, you need to pick your best (most influential) players first. Put them in their best positions and then work round them. Alli is our most influential, so he should play in his preferred position, in behind the strikers. Roy tried him out wide against Turkey and he looked poor. The most influential defensively is Dier, so but him defensive mid. Then, IMO, we don't have any players suited to playing either side of a diamond formation. Based on the friendlies.. Wilshere, tried and failed. Alli, tried and failed. Drinkwater, tried and failed. Rooney, never played there before. Henderson, tried and failed.

We have got to go with a 4-2-3-1 formation to allow players to play in the positions they are good at. For too long, England have picked the best XI players, then just put them into a team and formation and expected them to play well, despite these players never playing those positions before. Roy tried Vardy on the left hand side of a front 3 last week, and he was rubbish. Why? Because he has never played that position before. He has played in a front two all season, and is very good at it. Likewise Alli and co in the midfield. Just put players in their best positions.

-----------------Hart-------------------

Walker - Cahill - Smalling - Rose

------------Dier - Henderson---------

--Sterling------Alli------Lallana-----

----------------Kane-------------------

That would be my team vs Russia. Possibly changing Henderson for Rooney after watching him play that position in the FA Cup final very well.

 

[leedsvaliant]

Alli and Wilshere.



Dier is a holding midfielder. Correct
Wilshere the left sided central midfielder. I disagree - Wilshere is not the best player in any position in midfield, he shouldn't even be on the plane. Besides, his best games for England have come as a defensive midfielder, but he showed on Friday that he isn't capable of playing this position right now.
Alli as the box to box midfielder. Has Alli EVER played as a box to box midfielder? It's certainly not a position he has got his reputation from.
Rooney in the hole. Rooney again not the best player in this position.

If Roy persists with a diamond, we have absolutely no chance of winning this tournament. If he didn't know before, I hope the two friendlies have shown him this is not the way forward.



For me, you need to pick your best (most influential) players first. Put them in their best positions and then work round them. Alli is our most influential, so he should play in his preferred position, in behind the strikers. Roy tried him out wide against Turkey and he looked poor. The most influential defensively is Dier, so but him defensive mid. Then, IMO, we don't have any players suited to playing either side of a diamond formation. Based on the friendlies.. Wilshere, tried and failed. Alli, tried and failed. Drinkwater, tried and failed. Rooney, never played there before. Henderson, tried and failed.

We have got to go with a 4-2-3-1 formation to allow players to play in the positions they are good at. For too long, England have picked the best XI players, then just put them into a team and formation and expected them to play well, despite these players never playing those positions before. Roy tried Vardy on the left hand side of a front 3 last week, and he was rubbish. Why? Because he has never played that position before. He has played in a front two all season, and is very good at it. Likewise Alli and co in the midfield. Just put players in their best positions.

-----------------Hart-------------------

Walker - Cahill - Smalling - Rose

------------Dier - Henderson---------

--Sterling------Alli------Lallana-----

----------------Kane-------------------

That would be my team vs Russia. Possibly changing Henderson for Rooney after watching him play that position in the FA Cup final very well.

If we have Henderson, Lallana and Sterling starting, we won't make it out of the group.

For me, you've got to play Vardy alongside Kane as Vardy will stretch teams, whereas Kane playing as a lone front man will hold the ball up but at the same time enable the opposition to get behind the ball. It's the same mistake that we've made time and time again in tournaments, the slow turgid buld up play trying to get deeper lying players to link up with the main striker, and it's never worked! I'd much rather have Vardy stretching teams and allow others such as Rooney and Alli to exploit the space than playing sideways football.

Sterling is bang out of form and confidence and Lallana is too lightweight, so you're basically relying on Alli and Kane to link up. I'd be worried if that was Hodgson's plan.

 

[mnb089mnb]

If we have Henderson, Lallana and Sterling starting, we won't make it out of the group.

Yeah they would.

 

[mnb089mnb]

This is good. Basically Roy telling all yous in this thread to do one.

Hodgson: "I'm comfortable that, whatever way we want to play, we'll be covered. Systems wins you nothing. Football players win you games."

 

[JimJams]

Which is bollocks. Otherwise as we have an abundance of attackers and no defenders why wouldn't we play 4 strikers and only one defender? That's right because that would be a stupid fucking system. Obviously players win you games, but putting them out on the pitch to get the best out of them, y'know, the system, helps do that. Does Simeone play to a system? Does Guardiola? Does Mourinho? We don't have a system, we don't have a style of play, we don't have an identity. We can certainly win games, but it doesn't mean we are making the best with what we have.

 

[Big Bird]

Alli and Wilshere.



Dier is a holding midfielder. Correct
Wilshere the left sided central midfielder. I disagree - Wilshere is not the best player in any position in midfield, he shouldn't even be on the plane. Besides, his best games for England have come as a defensive midfielder, but he showed on Friday that he isn't capable of playing this position right now.
Alli as the box to box midfielder. Has Alli EVER played as a box to box midfielder? It's certainly not a position he has got his reputation from.
Rooney in the hole. Rooney again not the best player in this position.

If Roy persists with a diamond, we have absolutely no chance of winning this tournament. If he didn't know before, I hope the two friendlies have shown him this is not the way forward.



For me, you need to pick your best (most influential) players first. Put them in their best positions and then work round them. Alli is our most influential, so he should play in his preferred position, in behind the strikers. Roy tried him out wide against Turkey and he looked poor. The most influential defensively is Dier, so but him defensive mid. Then, IMO, we don't have any players suited to playing either side of a diamond formation. Based on the friendlies.. Wilshere, tried and failed. Alli, tried and failed. Drinkwater, tried and failed. Rooney, never played there before. Henderson, tried and failed.

We have got to go with a 4-2-3-1 formation to allow players to play in the positions they are good at. For too long, England have picked the best XI players, then just put them into a team and formation and expected them to play well, despite these players never playing those positions before. Roy tried Vardy on the left hand side of a front 3 last week, and he was rubbish. Why? Because he has never played that position before. He has played in a front two all season, and is very good at it. Likewise Alli and co in the midfield. Just put players in their best positions.

-----------------Hart-------------------

Walker - Cahill - Smalling - Rose

------------Dier - Henderson---------

--Sterling------Alli------Lallana-----

----------------Kane-------------------

That would be my team vs Russia. Possibly changing Henderson for Rooney after watching him play that position in the FA Cup final very well.

I think you're going to be very disappointed when we announce our starting lineup. There's no way we are taking 4 or 5 strikers to play with that formation. If Roy wanted to do that he'd have taken Townsend as wide cover minimum.

 

[SamScfc]

Alli and Wilshere.



Dier is a holding midfielder. Correct
Wilshere the left sided central midfielder. I disagree - Wilshere is not the best player in any position in midfield, he shouldn't even be on the plane. Besides, his best games for England have come as a defensive midfielder, but he showed on Friday that he isn't capable of playing this position right now.
Alli as the box to box midfielder. Has Alli EVER played as a box to box midfielder? It's certainly not a position he has got his reputation from.
Rooney in the hole. Rooney again not the best player in this position.

If Roy persists with a diamond, we have absolutely no chance of winning this tournament. If he didn't know before, I hope the two friendlies have shown him this is not the way forward.



For me, you need to pick your best (most influential) players first. Put them in their best positions and then work round them. Alli is our most influential, so he should play in his preferred position, in behind the strikers. Roy tried him out wide against Turkey and he looked poor. The most influential defensively is Dier, so but him defensive mid. Then, IMO, we don't have any players suited to playing either side of a diamond formation. Based on the friendlies.. Wilshere, tried and failed. Alli, tried and failed. Drinkwater, tried and failed. Rooney, never played there before. Henderson, tried and failed.

We have got to go with a 4-2-3-1 formation to allow players to play in the positions they are good at. For too long, England have picked the best XI players, then just put them into a team and formation and expected them to play well, despite these players never playing those positions before. Roy tried Vardy on the left hand side of a front 3 last week, and he was rubbish. Why? Because he has never played that position before. He has played in a front two all season, and is very good at it. Likewise Alli and co in the midfield. Just put players in their best positions.

-----------------Hart-------------------

Walker - Cahill - Smalling - Rose

------------Dier - Henderson---------

--Sterling------Alli------Lallana-----

----------------Kane-------------------

That would be my team vs Russia. Possibly changing Henderson for Rooney after watching him play that position in the FA Cup final very well.

Explain why Wilshere shouldn't be on the plane? 6 out of 7 MOM'sExplain why Wilshere shouldn't be on the plane? 6 out of 7 MOM's and is one of our best players.

Wilshere can easily play RCM or LCM, it's his position. He's not a natural holding midfielder and personally I don't like him as a number 10.

Alli is 19 and can easily play box to box, he's energetic and good in the tackle, although I agree I'd rather see him behind the 2 strikers.

Rooney was brilliant as a CM in the FA Cup final so I'd like to see him there.

Lallana and Sterling don't deserve to be starting at all.

 

[JaseTheVillain]

Explain why Wilshere shouldn't be on the plane? 6 out of 7 MOM'sExplain why Wilshere shouldn't be on the plane? 6 out of 7 MOM's and is one of our best players.

Wilshere can easily play RCM or LCM, it's his position. He's not a natural holding midfielder and personally I don't like him as a number 10.

Alli is 19 and can easily play box to box, he's energetic and good in the tackle, although I agree I'd rather see him behind the 2 strikers.

Rooney was brilliant as a CM in the FA Cup final so I'd like to see him there.

Lallana and Sterling don't deserve to be starting at all.

Playing 150 minutes in the whole season is a pretty decent reason for him not to go, I'd have thought.

 

[PoolieTom]

If we have Henderson, Lallana and Sterling starting, we won't make it out of the group.

For me, you've got to play Vardy alongside Kane as Vardy will stretch teams, whereas Kane playing as a lone front man will hold the ball up but at the same time enable the opposition to get behind the ball. It's the same mistake that we've made time and time again in tournaments, the slow turgid buld up play trying to get deeper lying players to link up with the main striker, and it's never worked! I'd much rather have Vardy stretching teams and allow others such as Rooney and Alli to exploit the space than playing sideways football.

Sterling is bang out of form and confidence and Lallana is too lightweight, so you're basically relying on Alli and Kane to link up. I'd be worried if that was Hodgson's plan.

I agree on Sterling - I wouldn't have even took him either. But we literally have no other option. I wouldn't be too opposed to playing 4-4-2 as I do agree Vardy could be the key influential attacker rather than Alli. However, if Vardy plays and we go 4-4-2 I see no place for Alli.

I think you're going to be very disappointed when we announce our starting lineup. There's no way we are taking 4 or 5 strikers to play with that formation. If Roy wanted to do that he'd have taken Townsend as wide cover minimum.

I will definitely be disappointed you are right. Won't we all by the third week of the tournament? I would've taken Townsend and I also would've taken Antonio who would've been one of my first names on the team sheet.

Explain why Wilshere shouldn't be on the plane? 6 out of 7 MOM'sExplain why Wilshere shouldn't be on the plane? 6 out of 7 MOM's and is one of our best players.

Wilshere can easily play RCM or LCM, it's his position. He's not a natural holding midfielder and personally I don't like him as a number 10.

Alli is 19 and can easily play box to box, he's energetic and good in the tackle, although I agree I'd rather see him behind the 2 strikers.

Rooney was brilliant as a CM in the FA Cup final so I'd like to see him there.

Lallana and Sterling don't deserve to be starting at all.

'Cos he's played about 14 minutes of football this season. He hasn't got 90 minutes in him, and he isn't very good to start with. Lots of fancy flicks and mazy runs. They look brilliants against your Charlie Adams and Gareth Barrys, but he gets found out against half decent teams/midfielders. He runs into people, falls over, dives in, and I have never seen a player out of position so consistently as he was on Friday night.

Yes Alli probably could play box to box - but why take him from being in a position where he was arguably one of the best players in the country, and put him into a position he probably hasn't played for 5 years? Just because you are good in one position does not mean you are good in another.

Agree on Rooney - I was very, very impressed.

Lallana, for me, HAS to start.

 

[Nilsson]

I see Wilshere's lack of football this season as a positive for England. No chance of fatigue. He's played a decent amount of football over the past 2 months so his match rhythm should be fine.

Can't believe some England fans think he shouldn't be going, our most creative player by some distance.

 

[ProfessorGreen]

I think Lallana is a pile of w*nk to be honest.

 

[FootyLad]

Absolutely can't stand Woy, shit manager, shit England squad, inevitable failure coming up in a couple of weeks.

This app sums up Roy for me:
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.skezza.hodgson.free&hl=en_GB

Roy Hodgson Says, Android App Store, funny as fuck.