The Labour Thread

[The Jovial Forester]

...

Have there been any polls post Brexit?

Seen one that had them neck and neck on 32

 

[Max]

Also, Chris Bryant has also just resigned. We haven't really mentioned much in this thread how much Corbyn's weak EU support has contributed to his unpopularity with MPs, but this resignation letter is brutal:

https://twitter.com/RhonddaBryant/status/747165335804121088/photo/1

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

I like Corbyns politics, but his lukewarm support for remain and his failing to grasp the opportunity to show himself as a leader, is deeply worrying.

Right politics, wrong leader.

Hasn't Corbyn historically been quite Eurosceptic? Something to ponder...

 

[Pliny Harris]

They're all chumps. I hope they deselect themselves too and find a more fitting career in skinning cats.

Every time an opportunity comes around, the Labour "centre" digs its heels in and turns it into a problem. They're the only issue here. Level pegging in the polls still, so imagine what could be if they weren't all AWOL at best, urging him to step down at worst.

Set of melts all. I genuinely don't understand why they haven't crossed the floor.

 

[Abertawe]

Chris Bryant is an utter prick, always has been.

This is brilliant for Labour long term. Corbyn will win another leadership election with an even bigger mandate second time round if it comes to it. He can then without fear choose a cabinet of real people who are fully behind him and all these twunts will become irrelevant. Real Labour can then set about creating a real left wing social revolution, galvanizing the youth up & down the country and achieving real change. Gwarn Corbyn you fucking G.

Anyone who says a left wing social party can't win a general election speaks pish. Decades of brainwashing have left you redundant of thought. It'll be tough but we're going to see a Tory party which will be deeply unpopular with a huge proportion of society. This is a tremendous opportunity to shape our country, an independent country free of the evils of the European Union.

 

[Pliny Harris]

Chris Bryant is an utter prick, always has been.

This is brilliant for Labour long term. Corbyn will win another leadership election with an even bigger mandate second time round if it comes to it. He can then without fear choose a cabinet of real people who are fully behind him and all these twunts will become irrelevant. Real Labour can then set about creating a real left wing social revolution, galvanizing the youth up & down the country and achieving real change. Gwarn Corbyn you fucking G.

Anyone who says a left wing social party can't win a general election speaks pish. Decades of brainwashing have left you redundant of thought. It'll be tough but we're going to see a Tory party which will be deeply unpopular with a huge proportion of society. This is a tremendous opportunity to shape our country, an independent country free of the evils of the European Union.

If our man weathers through this, I can imagine him embodying the "What doesn't kill you makes you stronger" maxim. Could be an interesting one when contended against Cameron (and Blair's) Teflon reigns.

I'd rather a 15% chance of Corbyn becoming PM than a 60% chance of yer average prominent Labour MP becoming PM. With the latter there tends to be very little, if owt, that speaks for me, and no left-wing alternative. Hopefully enough fowk are in the same place as me.

 

[The Paranoid Pineapple]

Re some of the recent discussion - I'd certainly agree that the Labour party should be able to accommodate a plurality of views. When you have two dominant political parties those parties are, by necessity, going to be broad churches and so I do think the Blairites have as much of a place in the party as the old Left or any other wing of the Labour party. But when it comes to Corbyn and electability, this really does seem to me to be something of a self-fulfilling prophesy. The media were on the attack from day one but Corbyn may still have stood a change were he fortunate enough to have a party united behind him. In reality, the knives were out even prior to his election as leader. Every time there's a perceived failing there are MPs briefing against him to their media chums and telling all and sundry how he can't win an election (with friends like these...). When the Tory party are experiencing a crisis the very last thing the Labour party ought to be doing is deliberately orchestrating a campaign to bring down their leader.

The difficulty, I suppose, is that the PLP aren't very representative of party members, who in turn are not very representative of the electorate at large. Now, the PLP may very well think that Corbyn won't play well with the wider population (it's quite conceivable that they are right and they may also harbour quite legitimate reservations about his leadership) but they had their chance to deliver a more inspiring candidate a year ago and completely blew it. They ought to have given him an opportunity; they owed that much to the members who gave him such mandate. Instead they've behaved like a bunch of unruly children; it really is they, and not Corbyn, who pose the greater threat to the party's credibility.

 

[mnb089mnb]

Amazing looking back now, but the country should have elected Ed Miliband.

 

[Cheese & Biscuits]

Referendum results of the Labour dissenter's constituencies.

Surely the blame lies more with the local MP than the leader?

 

[blade1889]

Amazing looking back now, but the country should have elected Ed Miliband.

Labour should have elected David Miliband. Ifs but and maybes.

 

[TomPNE94]

Must admit, I said when Corbyn was elected Labour leader that they would never get in power while he was in charge.

Absolutely fucking hilarious that they're falling apart like this. Complete shambles.

 

[Abertawe]

Must admit, I said when Corbyn was elected Labour leader that they would never get in power while he was in charge.

Absolutely fucking hilarious that they're falling apart like this. Complete shambles.

Unless you're a hedge fund baby sitting on a million pound inheritance you're a f'king idiot.

 

[TomPNE94]

Unless you're a hedge fund baby sitting on a million pound inheritance you're a f'king idiot.

I'm not.

So thank you

 

[TheArtfulDodger]

http://newsthump.com/2016/06/27/lionel-messi-quits-labour-shadow-cabinet/

 

[Dave-Vale]

More have gone today but he has started to replace them.

Not surprised one bit to see my MP Tristram Hunt is one of the dissenters. Fucking clown.

 

[The Jovial Forester]

Apparently there's a poll in The Times giving "Corbyn's Labour" a two point lead, but can't find a link.

 

[Benji]

It would be very funny if all these Labour MPs quit to undermine Corbyn only for him to win the leadership election again. I will likely join and vote for him this time.

 

[Blitzballer]

Diane Abbott - Shadow health secretary

 

[Cheese & Biscuits]

https://twitter.com/LabourEoin/status/747444817207111680?s=09

Skinner is great!

 

[Max]

Today has been interesting.

Big talk from Aber and Pliny about how all the resigning shadow cabinet are no loss, but I have officially given up on Corbyn today with the promotion of Diane Abbott to shadow health secretary. Diane Abbott who was a catastrophic failure in her brief at public health, who has advocated for homeopathy - she is indefensible as a front bencher and just an embarrassment. Half the new lot were only elected in 2015, and it is not just the 'right' of the party going. Nandy, Smith, Berger and Phillips are all from the left of the PLP, and their criticisms of him are not wrong. He simply doesn't have enough allies to replace all the resignations.;

Also, say what you want about Chris Bryant, but he's not wrong, when he said:

You left many Labour voters uncertain as to our party’s position. You made speeches that undermined the campaign to stay in the EU. You and John McDonnell regularly attacked the remain campaign. Even on polling day there were people who thought you really wanted us to leave.

The number one job of the Labour leader is to communicate the Labour Party message to the public. Corbyn is consistently failing to do this.

Those saying he'd easily win another leadership election, I'm not so sure. If the rest of the party gets around one candidate, it'll be a 1 on 1 contest, and I think a lot of people who voted for Corbyn can admit this is just not working.

 

[Abertawe]

Max, Corbyn would decimate any potential leadership rival no matter how hard the new labour goons battle. I'm not sure what you're drawing from when you say he unable to deliver a party message, all evidence contradicts that theory.

https://twitter.com/LabourEoin/status/747444817207111680

 

[The Paranoid Pineapple]

Abbott's a Corbyn loyalist. I think that's the only qualification you need, and should need, to get onto the Labour front bench right now! Some other mug would probably last MINUTES before they stropped off.

 

[Abertawe]

Gangster
Jeremy Corbyn
12 mins ·
The following people will be serving in Labour's Shadow Cabinet. I will be making the final appointments in the coming hours.

Shadow Chancellor of the Exchequer – John McDonnell

Shadow Chief Secretary to the Treasury – Rebecca Long-Bailey MP

Shadow Foreign Secretary - Emily Thornberry MP

Shadow Health Secretary – Diane Abbott MP

Shadow International Development Secretary – Kate Osamor MP

Shadow Environment Food and Rural Affairs Secretary – Rachel Maskell MP

Shadow Lord President of the Council and Campaigns and Elections Director – Jon Trickett MP

Deputy Leader of the Party, party Chair and Shadow Minister for the Cabinet Office - Tom Watson MP

Shadow Minister without Portfolio (attends Shadow Cabinet) - Jonathan Ashworth MP

Shadow Home Secretary – Andy Burnham MP

Shadow Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government and Shadow Minister for the Constitutional convention - Grahame Morris MP

Shadow Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change - Barry Gardiner MP

Shadow Secretary of State for Justice and Shadow Lord Chancellor - Richard Burgon MP

Shadow Minister for Women and Equalities – Angela Rayner MP

Shadow Secretary of State for Work and Pensions – Debbie Abrahams MP

Shadow Education Secretary – Pat Glass MP

Shadow Transport Secretary – Andy McDonald MP

Shadow Defence Secretary – Clive Lewis MP

Shadow Voter Engagement and Youth Affairs – Cat Smith MP

Shadow Northern Ireland Secretary – Dave Anderson MP

 

[Abertawe]

Still apt

"The Right Wing of the Labour Party would rather see it fall into perpetual decline rather than abide by its democratic decisions."
- Nye Bevan

 

[Max]

Max, Corbyn would decimate any potential leadership rival no matter how hard the new labour goons battle. I'm not sure what you're drawing from when you say he unable to deliver a party message, all evidence contradicts that theory.

https://twitter.com/LabourEoin/status/747444817207111680

Well the last figures that showed support for his membership were in February, so I would imagine they have declined a bit since then. In the leadership election he won 59% of the vote, against 41% of the other combined three. I don't think it is fanciful to think in a 1v1 contest with someone now, it would likely be nearer 50-50%. Also, there was a huge surge of new members to vote for Jeremy before. I do think, post-referendum, a lot of new members would join for a new leadership election, and would by no means by pro-Corbyn supporters. It is possible you'd see a lot of fairly centre-ground type voters coming into the Labour party, which would not favour Jeremy.

As for his inability to deliver Labour's message, I would refer you to half of Labour supporters not knowing the party's view on the EU before the referendum. I also don't think the party is seen as having a clear message on foreign policy or the economy.

Generally on this 'hard right' of Labour, New Labour 'goons' stuff. Momentum are currently protesting pro-Corbyn on Parliament square. A good number of them are holding Socialist Worker Party placards. Jeremy got a massive mandate, but there was obviously a huge amount of entryism from SWP, Green, and other people that can be reasonably described as 'far left'. Jeremy Corbyn has been a Labour MP for ages, and he has always been in the minority of the left of the party.

The bit of the Labour constitution declaring it to be truly socialist - Clause IV - was repealed in 1995, more than twenty years ago. Since then, Labour has been a centre/centre-left party, rather than a left wing socialist party. You can't expect to crash in the door, demand a left wing socialist party, and then complain that the elected MPs, some of whom have been members for 50 years, are ruining your idea. The Labour Party stopped being far left socialist because it kept losing elections, and it's better to compromise and get a reasonable government than lose in defiance and get a shit Tory one.

Jeremy Corbyn, if he persists, may well split the party. Given the electoral system we've got, that will mean Tory governments forever. It's great he got a mandate, it's great he increased membership of the party, but frankly, if 250,000 Jeremy Corbyn fans think he's more important than winning back the rest of the country, they've got their priorities seriously wrong. Jeremy Corbyn has not totally imploded the party's standing or position, but they were in a dire position when he was elected and he is not getting any better results.

 

[Max]

Also, as another exhibit in support of my argument. This clown is now shadowing Michael Gove:

You might hate Michael Gove, but he's a canny operator, gets shit done, and needs holding to account. He's actually done quite well in the Justice brief, mainly by rolling back all of Grayling's stupid ideas. It says something very depressing that Corbyn has held off giving Burgon a job until now, because he is totally desperate.

 

[Abertawe]

Meanwhile actual data in which to summise his performance to date.
Oldham - (+7.3%)
Sheffield - (+5.9%)
Tooting - (+8.7%)
London, Liverpool, Bristol mayoral victories.

Hilary was lucky to scrape a remain (0.3%) and most of his cronies failed miserably, Corbyn handled his business. If that's the basis of the coup (most evidently isn't) then it's flawed.

 

[Pliny Harris]

It would be very funny if all these Labour MPs quit to undermine Corbyn only for him to win the leadership election again. I will likely join and vote for him this time.

Best to join now before they introduce some rule preventing potential Corbyn voters from signing up!

 

[Pliny Harris]

You can't expect to crash in the door, demand a left wing socialist party, and then complain that the elected MPs, some of whom have been members for 50 years, are ruining your idea.

Why not? The same thing happened in reverse colours not so long ago.

 

[Max]

Meanwhile actual data in which to summise his performance to date.
Oldham - (+7.3%)
Sheffield - (+5.9%)
Tooting - (+8.7%)
London, Liverpool, Bristol mayoral victories.

Hilary was lucky to scrape a remain (0.3%) and most of his cronies failed miserably, Corbyn handled his business. If that's the basis of the coup (most evidently isn't) then it's flawed.

The basis of the coup is that there is probably a general election coming up, and Labour do not have a chance of winning it if things stay as they are. Europe may be the trigger and the main reason being cited in some of the resignation letters, but had Remain won, Jeremy would likely have been given more time. I think it's worth remembering that all the people currently resigning are the ones who have been trying to make it work with Jeremy for a year, not the ones who flounced off and refused to be involved.

Those victories you have mentioned are all good news and impressive, but I don't think Liverpool was ever going to not produce a Labour mayor, and I don't think Corbyn was relevant in the London election. The government is in massive chaos. Even unsuccessful past leaders like Foot, Miliband etc. have enjoyed more popularity with the public than Corbyn. Labour needs to be 10 points ahead in the polls, not 'just about level on a good day'. Do you honestly think he's going to pull out a massive upswing in support in the coming weeks? Why? Where from?