The Labour Thread

[Abertawe]

MUKGA https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/ne...my-corbyn-vows-labour-government-14943521.amp

 

[AFCB_Mark]

I hope we're all going to sign up for Corbyn's state funded Facebook/Netflix replacement...

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...privacy-labour-public-ownership-a8504151.html

 

[Craig]

The man is a visionary.

 

[Look Out There Are Llamas]

I hope we're all going to sign up for Corbyn's state funded Facebook/Netflix replacement...

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...privacy-labour-public-ownership-a8504151.html

It's this sorta shit that turns people off of Labour.

 

[PuB]

Not the antisemitism then?

 

[Fompous Part]

This is a man who stood for election proposing to put Diane Abbott in charge of the Police and MI5, and STILL won over 40% of the vote. He can propose pretty much any daft bugger idea he likes.

 

[Look Out There Are Llamas]

Not the antisemitism then?

I've only read about the Labour manifesto anti-Semitism thing adoption of rules or whatever it is, totally overblown scandal imo. I've not really looked into the other stuff, there's probably an element behind it. Either way, yeah it harms public opinion with the Labour party. Doesn't mean policies such as the above don't come across as ridiculous. Labour need to be a lot more pragmatic.

This is a man who stood for election proposing to put Diane Abbott in charge of the Police and MI5, and STILL won over 40% of the vote. He can propose pretty much any daft bugger idea he likes.

Surely this is a reflection of how British politics currently is?

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

Is there a solid ethical argument for keeping the BBC around at all, much less expanding it? The TV license is a completely unnecessary regressive tax if ever there was one. We don't need a state television network, and a government controlled social media platform is a fucking Orwellian nightmare waiting to happen.

 

[The Paranoid Pineapple]

Meanwhile the other media outlets not subject to a "regressive tax" operate JUST PERFECTLY

Dunno if the solutions are good ones but Corbyn's right to open up a conversation about the media landscape in this country. Frankly, it's well overdue.

 

[Jockney]

It's this sorta shit that turns people off of Labour.

I was skeptical, but then I read the speech:

"A BDC could develop new technology for online decision making and audience-led commissioning of programmes and even a public social media platform with real privacy and public control over the data that is making Facebook and others so rich," he said at the Edinburgh TV Festival's Alternative MacTaggart Lecture.

"It could become the access point for public knowledge, information and content currently held in the BBC archives, the British Library and the British Museum.

"Imagine an expanded iPlayer giving universal access to licence fee payers for a product that could rival Netflix and Amazon. It would probably sell pretty well overseas as well."

This doesn't sound ridiculous, or dystopian. These are fairly moderate reforms that go at least a little way to confronting the problems of Big Data and the Google-Facebook duopoly while providing a path to potential common ownership of media. It's giving people a stake in the news and programming that is produced; the possible democratisation of entire industries which have thus far been absolutely unaccountable to the public. It's a political issue that is incredibly salient for most people.


"

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

Meanwhile the other media outlets not subject to a "regressive tax" operate JUST PERFECTLY

Because if other outlets are run imperfectly then the way the BBC is funded is OK?

 

[The Paranoid Pineapple]

No, just that some of us understand the value of public service broadcasting and would conclude that the UK media landscape would be a lot poorer without the BBC, despite its flaws. It's a tenner a month. That's less than all of the following that I, and many other people pay, without a second thought: energy, water, trade union membership, a return train ticket to London, a couple of pints, line rental, broadband, any other tv subscription package, a phone contract. It's very good value indeed for a service the vast majority of the population use on a regular or semi-regular basis.

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

No, just that some of us understand the value of public sector broadcasting and would conclude that the UK media landscape would be a lot poorer without the BBC, despite its flaws. It's a tenner a month. That's less than all of the following that I, and many other people pay, without a second thought: energy, water, trade union membership, a return train ticket to London, a couple of pints, line rental, broadband, any other tv subscription package, a phone contract. It's very good value indeed for a service the vast majority of the population use on a regular or semi-regular basis.

Ignoring the fact that none of that has anything to do with what you initially said, if the service is so great and the price so cheap then it would comfortably survive as a subscription service in the private sector, no? Why force the poorest households to fund the BBC just so they can legally use a TV? It's unconscionable.

 

[The Paranoid Pineapple]

Doesn't it? My point didn't really extent any further than it's a small price to pay for decent programming in a media environment where the printed press are toxic and the rest of the broadcast media is not of comparable quality.

Done this whole topic before tbh. Lots of reasons which I suppose I'll regurgitate again. High transitional costs, rising operating costs (eg huge spend on marketing in order to retain subscribers), a smaller subscriber base, the need to maximise revenue would all mean that the BBC would likely have to charge significantly more for the same services, rendering it less affordable and potentially pricing some people out altogether. It's also likely that the output would become gradually less diverse as the focus would move to catering to those who were prepared to pay, rather than the provision of a public service.

Most subscription channels in the UK offer quite specialist programming. There's little original, home produced content. So imposing such a model on a broadcaster with a unique remit, such as the BBC, does not to me seem desirable. Yes, it is a regressive tax and an imperfect funding model, but it's perhaps the best available one.

 

[Look Out There Are Llamas]

Is it weird and paradoxical that I agree fully with both Tup and Scumbag?

 

[Fompous Part]

Is it weird and paradoxical that I agree fully with both Tup and Scumbag?

I’m not sure what I have to do with it…

FWIW, I dislike the license fee because I think the BBC’s N&CA folk are mostly a bunch of muesli-munching Guardianista types who are intuitively hostile to various social, political and cultural ideas that I favour, and I rather resent having to fund their existence (under threat of prosecution) if I want to watch repeats of Man vs. Food or the occasional decent film on Film 4.

A very political reason, then, but I suspect the same is true for those who defend it.

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

Veteran MP Frank Field resigns Labour whip, saying the party's leadership has become "a force for anti-Semitism" https://t.co/eoozL8vNI5

— BBC Breaking News (@BBCBreaking) August 30, 2018

 

[Jockney]

I'm sure it's 'rampant anti-semitism' and not the fact that he recently lost a vote of no confidence by his CLP

 

[The Paranoid Pineapple]

Quite.

I think there are some justifiable criticisms to be made of the way Labour have dealt with the whole anti-semitism storm, but the idea that Field is resigning on some high-minded point of principle is laughable, frankly. He's closer to the Tories in many respects and was finally on the way to being turfed out.

 

[Soup Ladle]

Lots of talk about the IHRA and adopting the definition of antisemitism. I agree with the statement but if you go to their website and check the examples, it could curtail freedom of expression about Israel and its disgusting policies against the Palestinians

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

It's not really a free speech issue because it's not imposed by the state, but it's a nonsense that they should be expected to adopt it. They have no need of an internationalist organization trying to dictate to them what anti-Semitism is. Buckling now makes them look weak.

 

[Soup Ladle]

It's not really a free speech issue because it's not imposed by the state, but it's a nonsense that they should be expected to adopt it. They have no need of an internationalist organization trying to dictate to them what anti-Semitism is. Buckling now makes them look weak.

The problem comes when someone starts legitmately slating Israel say on the radio or whatever and the opponent can then just use the IHRA thing and call someone antisemitic. Is it possible that this could be adopted on a state level? If so, I can see lots of repercussions.

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

I think that particular horse has already bolted. We already have laws on the books that make it illegal to send "offensive" content electronically (with an exception for TV) so freedom of expression has been on it's arse in this country for a long time. The creepiest part is that these laws are only enforced selectively and incrementally, like we're the proverbial frog in boiling water.

 

[Look Out There Are Llamas]

Yup, and in proper bullshit cases also.

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/woman-who-posted-rap-lyrics-14543694

Is probably the worst, criminalising a 19 year old for posting (questionable) lyrics from a song as her Instagram bio because a police officer took offence, basically.

Absolute farce.

 

[Jockney]

Despite the NEC’s submission on the IHRA code (and it really was submission — a depressing demonstration of weakness, under very little pressure), I think the Labour Left has come out of the saga in a position of real strength. Agitators on the right of the PLP, long distrusted in their CLPs, have clearly overplayed their hand. It’s clear that there was expectation of a new centrist party this Summer, but the anti-semitism scandal failing to resonate with the electorate has stopped it in its tracks. It’s hard to see where anti-Corbyn MPs go from here, with no consensus on any single issue that resonates with voters, no clear constituency within the membership and no appetite on the ground for a new party. Worse for them: the left now have almost complete control over the NEC and will be able to push through a mandatory selection procedure, either at Conference later this month, and if not then then certainly in the next few years.

Say a prayer for the good folks at Progress HQ...

 

[Benji]

Damning video obtained by Michael Crick.

Jeremy Corbyn outside his house this morning, tells a BBC pool cameraman “Right, can you turn it off?” And he raises his hand towards the camera. pic.twitter.com/cUWiI0TEFd

— Michael Crick (@MichaelLCrick) September 14, 2018

 

[Redpelt]

Is it just me whose faster in slippers ?

 

[Abertawe]

I hope they don't fuck it up today. We've nearly got the whole damn system in a checkmate to fuck that over would be idiocy.

 

[Abertawe]

I hope they don't fuck it up today. We've nearly got the whole damn system in a checkmate to fuck that over would be idiocy.

Step one in how to fuck it up.

Did the delegates who whooped and cheered the intervention at #LabourConference demanding an end to calling men men and women women in favour of “gender neutral” descriptions have any idea what a gift that sort of thing is to the enemy? Identity politics disappearing up itself.

— George Galloway (@georgegalloway) September 25, 2018

 

[Jockney]

what is this in reference to?