the Migrant Crisis

[SUTSS]

This is a step in the right direction - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34155501

You can't help but feel that us and the Yanks would make short shrift of ISIS with not that much effort, we've just not really tried. Any decent modern airforce and mechanized force would handle it - the problem would be needing a presence for long while after. At least we could TRY and fix this mess and make the country safe for those refugees who wish to be repatriated and those poor souls still stuck in that hellhole.

I think it's getting to the point where military action will have to be seriously considered but it has to be part of a wider solution. Forgetting the debate of whether it was right to go into Iraq or not and whether we were lied to the big issue is that the long term planning for what would happen once Saddam was gone was incompetent and incoherent. Plenty of people well versed in the region warned that the ethnic and religious divides in the region could lead to civil war and an attempt to reestablish a caliphate but these people were seemingly ignored by the politicians. It was all too complicated for a president who didn't do nuance.

If we are to go in again, and I do think that might be the only way to stop ISIS, we need to go in with the backing of other arab states and there needs to be a long term plan for investment in the region. And not investment where corporations make loads of money but investment that allows countries to develop at their own pace and to develop based on their own needs. A Marshall Plan for the Middle East almost. I don't really trust our politicians or the politicians in the other Western countries to get this remotely right.

On a different point, I've seen people questioning why they were leaving Turkey as Turkey is safe. It's been mentioned that ISIS could push northwards into Turkey (that would surely result in western military intervention) but another reason is the horrific treatment of Kurds in Turkey. Now this has been improving slightly in recent years but there will be many Turks who view the amount of Kurds coming over their border as a very genuine threat to Turkey and Turkishness. It's certainly not the ideal place to be as a Kurd.

 

[BigDaveCUFC]

I've said afew times before ISIS needs troops on group to reduce them ASAP

I think people forget that all thi time ISIS hold some major towns/cities they are brainwashing thousands, probably tens of thousands of children who will end up growing up as radical terrorists because we're openly allowing them time to let them be brainwashed at school and daily life.......much how the Hitler Youth and Nazi run schools and Radio/TV did the same.

what may just be 10,000 now, could be 50,000 in 5-6 years/

 

[smat]

I've said afew times before ISIS needs troops on group to reduce them ASAP

And yet they still haven't listened!

 

[Captain Scumbag]

On a different point, I've seen people questioning why they were leaving Turkey as Turkey is safe. It's been mentioned that ISIS could push northwards into Turkey (that would surely result in western military intervention) but another reason is the horrific treatment of Kurds in Turkey. Now this has been improving slightly in recent years but there will be many Turks who view the amount of Kurds coming over their border as a very genuine threat to Turkey and Turkishness. It's certainly not the ideal place to be as a Kurd.

We dilute and confuse the idea of a refugee (and political asylum generally) as soon as we start adding things like counterfactuals, ideal circumstances or the socio-economic preferences of individual refugees into the equation.

The present reality is that ISIS hasn't crossed the Syrian/Turkish border; and, as you acknowledge, them doing so would almost certainly precipitate a strong military intervention from the west. At present, then, Turkey is a safe haven from ISIS. It might not be the ideal safe haven (for the reason you give and others – not least the sheer number of them already there), but there's nothing in international refuge law about re-locating people to what they and others see as the ideal country. And unless there's documented and convincing evidence that they're being violently persecuted in Turkey (the UNHCR, among others, is well positioned to know), it's reasonable enough to describe Turkey as safe.

It's also reasonable, of course, to argue that Turkey, irrespective of its safeness, is already shouldering an enormous burden with regard to this problem and needs a lot more help (including offers to take some refugees) from the international community. But that's a different argument.

 

[mistermagic]

Yes, I really didn't know if he was a Syrian refugee that's why I needed to ask him.
I know full well he's not a Syrian I was asking him as a joke to illustrate the fact that despite judging them he knows nothing of what they're experiencing, but then you really knew that didn't you? It got you a few likes though so good work.

I'm not sure how not knowing what the refugees are experiencing (coz, y'know, neither do you unless you're the 1FF Syrian from Syria) unables you to judgment on the matter.

 

[Red]

I'm not sure how not knowing what the refugees are experiencing (coz, y'know, neither do you unless you're the 1FF Syrian from Syria) unables you to judgment on the matter.

None of us truly know what they're experiencing. I levelled the comment at eg because he felt we should be more concerned about the Syrians left in Syria than the refugees. He, nor none of us know on a personal and individual level what the reasons are for those refugees leaving and that is why I asked if he was a Syrian refugee. I can't explain it any clearer so I hope you understand

 

[mente captus]

This is a step in the right direction - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34155501

You can't help but feel that us and the Yanks would make short shrift of ISIS with not that much effort, we've just not really tried. Any decent modern airforce and mechanized force would handle it - the problem would be needing a presence for long while after. At least we could TRY and fix this mess and make the country safe for those refugees who wish to be repatriated and those poor souls still stuck in that hellhole.

war is not the solution.

the only solution is to treat the refugees with respect as the most of them will go back after the war and if they have to tell then good stories about Europe to their children and people who stayed there it will become difficult for the hardliners to recruit new future murders

 

[BlueBee]

Why are most of the refugees male?

 

[blade1889]

http://thisisengland.org.uk/videoro...lims-attacking-peaceful-britain-first-parade/

That headline though

 

[Veggie Legs]

Did you read the comments? I liked this one:

you can't even speek english, to dissagree with whats being said to you because your all illitrats, and if you didn't spend all yout time on your back for you fathers, brothers, sisters ,sons, and just about every other inbreed fucking you, maybe you would have learned english by now,

 

[Viv Aldi]

I've said afew times before ISIS needs troops on group to reduce them ASAP

I think people forget that all thi time ISIS hold some major towns/cities they are brainwashing thousands, probably tens of thousands of children who will end up growing up as radical terrorists because we're openly allowing them time to let them be brainwashed at school and daily life.......much how the Hitler Youth and Nazi run schools and Radio/TV did the same.

what may just be 10,000 now, could be 50,000 in 5-6 years/

You are spot on. Troops on the ground are a must

 

[Alty]

Did you read the comments? I liked this one:

Almost enough to make you cry, isn't it? Fucking hell.

 

[Red]

Did you read the comments? I liked this one:

If you go on YouTube and look at these types of videos you'll find that quite a lot of the racists have very poor levels of literacy.

 

[Aber gas]

10,000 out of 4.9 million ,

http://thisisengland.org.uk/videoro...lims-attacking-peaceful-britain-first-parade/

That headline though

they just keep giving

 

[blade1889]

10,000 out of 4.9 million ,

they just keep giving

when you go on theres a vote about whether we should let migrants in or not. Only issue is that you have to sign up to the website to vote...i mean its not going to be a heavily biased vote is it?

 

[Aber gas]

when you go on theres a vote about whether we should let migrants in or not. Only issue is that you have to sign up to the website to vote...i mean its not going to be a heavily biased vote is it?

I saw that , thought about signing up just for the giggles . I am " known " by them apparently . So I doubt I'd be accepted ( thank fuck )

 

[Blitzballer]

Why are most of the refugees male?

I wondered this also. Read that only 15-20% are women and children. The rest are mostly males between the ages of 18-40

 

[blade1889]

I wondered this also. Read that only 15-20% are women and children. The rest are mostly males between the ages of 18-40

I suspect its that the men go (risk the journey), claim asylum then bring their wives & children over. Could be wrong but thats been my assumption for many of them.

 

[Aber gas]

Depends which figures you read and who supplied them , unhrc has the percentages at 50.5 female , 49.5 male . That's an estimated number of the total refugee population , perhaps the figures quoted were of a smaller sample in a particular area

 

[Red]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...dler-Aylan-died-parents-greedy-good-life.html

Sick fucks at the Daily Mail. For the last god knows how many years they've been UKIPs mouthpiece in the media and scaremongering about asylum seekers. Opportunistic scumbags.

Still at least their readers are still on task

Should Britain agree to take more refugees?

• Yes 22% 16,981 votes
• No 78% 58,710 votes

Now share your opinion

 

[Aber gas]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...dler-Aylan-died-parents-greedy-good-life.html

Sick fucks at the Daily Mail. For the last god knows how many years they've been UKIPs mouthpiece in the media and scaremongering about asylum seekers. Opportunistic scumbags.

Still at least their readers are still on task

Should Britain agree to take more refugees?

• Yes 22% 16,981 votes
• No 78% 58,710 votes

Now share your opinion

I'm not surprised . In fact if those figures were reversed I'd probably start stockpiling food for the coming apocalypse .

 

[HertsWolf]

None of us truly know what they're experiencing. I levelled the comment at eg because he felt we should be more concerned about the Syrians left in Syria than the refugees. He, nor none of us know on a personal and individual level what the reasons are for those refugees leaving and that is why I asked if he was a Syrian refugee. I can't explain it any clearer so I hope you understand

In fact, there is a huge body of both research and commentary on this specific migration and the situation in refugee camps.
Papers by MPI, UNHCR and a Turkish government 2013 survey here. The Transatlantic Council on Migration published "Syrian Refugees in Turkey: The Long Road Ahead" in April. There are a variety of others available.

Taken together, these can provide useful insight into the lives of the refugees. Most people don't bother reading much about it, preferring to let a politician summarise 15,000 pages and 7 million lives into a 15 word soundbite, or a newspaper cherrypick the bad stuff to create ogres, monsters, greedy bastards and nasty people because that's what sells newspapers.

The problem with any migration situation, whether Syrian, Libyan, Hutu or Mexican is that within the general framework of terror or poverty, there are millions of reasons, triggers and experiences. Despite it being a common human phenomenon since the year dot, it's still not well understood. However, typically, those who are at the migration destinations do not want those who are arriving.

 

[Alty]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...dler-Aylan-died-parents-greedy-good-life.html

Sick fucks at the Daily Mail. For the last god knows how many years they've been UKIPs mouthpiece in the media and scaremongering about asylum seekers. Opportunistic scumbags.

Still at least their readers are still on task

Should Britain agree to take more refugees?

• Yes 22% 16,981 votes
• No 78% 58,710 votes

Now share your opinion

They haven't been UKIP's mouthpiece. They've consistently represented the right-wing of the Tory Party.

I think most Mail readers probably see UKIP as a party for oiks, tbh.

 

[Aber gas]

The daily mail once ran a headline " hurrah for the black shirts " . I'd imagine ukip are exactly the mail's cup of tea .

 

[Alty]

The daily mail once ran a headline " hurrah for the black shirts " . I'd imagine ukip are exactly the mail's cup of tea .

Except they openly endorsed their opponents at the general election.

I think most right-minded people accept the Daily Mail is a vile publication, but we might as well stick to facts if we're going to discuss the article.

 

[BlueBee]

MatthewPriceBBC:
Syrian couple (she's 6m pregnant) in Munich left police cordon (as some others are doing). Don't want to be processed here. Plan: onto Sweden.


Interesting choice.

 

[Aber gas]

Except they openly endorsed their opponents at the general election.

I think most right-minded people accept the Daily Mail is a vile publication, but we might as well stick to facts if we're going to discuss the article.

there is a fag paper between right wing Tories and ukip ,up to the point of an unofficial " understanding " at the last general election . To think that the mails editorial policy and a large majority of its readership don't have sympathy with ukip is naive . ( which is unusual for you ) . That's not a dig at you at all btw

 

[Aber gas]

MatthewPriceBBC:
Syrian couple (she's 6m pregnant) in Munich left police cordon (as some others are doing). Don't want to be processed here. Plan: onto Sweden.


Interesting choice.

Perhaps she has family already in Sweden , perhaps she thinks it's the safest place for her unborn child. Good luck to her

 

[BlueBee]

Perhaps she has family already in Sweden , perhaps she thinks it's the safest place for her unborn child. Good luck to her

Superb.

 

[Aber gas]

Superb.

Cheers mate.