the Migrant Crisis

[BlueBee]

You're not that naive surely?

 

[Aber gas]

You're not that naive surely?

Not sure what you mean mate .
You have to explain stuff to me . Step by step is best , because I'm quite thick .

 

[The Paranoid Pineapple]

Ideally, we should reduce the numbers of migrants coming from Eastern Europe which would allow us to take in more refugees who are genuine asylum seekers.

What is crucial though is how any migrants are assimilated. I read something interesting today about a situation in Austria at one point. They used to have mandatory lessons in German for any asylum seekers, and there were attempts by many left wing parties to end this as it was in their eyes not accommodating of other cultures. Huge numbers of women from Middle Eastern backgrounds came out in protest however against this ban, as it would lead to them being disempowered, unable to act for themselves in a country in which they did not speak the language.

If a Syrian man moves here with next to no English skills, where is he going to go? To an area solely dominated with Arabic speakers. Where is he going to shop? Just in that area at shops where the owner speaks Arabic? Who is he going to work with? People who spin eak Arabic. That is what leads to a segregated society in which hatred and distrust between different ethnicities is allowed to be fostered. So, anyone who comes as a refugee must have mandatory English lessons in order to be eligible for benefits for example.

Asylum seekers aren't entitled to benefits regardless of whether or not they learn English. I suspect the vast majority of people coming here want to learn English for the reasons you state . I used to know quite a few asylum seekers and all of them could speak English to varying degrees before they came here. The one's not that good welcomed the opportunity to do ESOL courses. Of course if the government stipulate learning English as a condition of living here then it must fund ESOL courses as asylum seekers have no recourse to public funds.

Meant to respond to these points a bit earlier but will do so now because I think it's quite an interesting point of conversation. My mum taught ESOL and EFL at the local FE college for a good decade or so and towards the end of her employment I remember her really bemoaning the state of things as cuts began to bite. When she started there the provision was extremely good, the college had gained a good reputation, many groups wanting to come and learn English could do so without charge and, as a result, enrolments were high. Then ESOL ceased being free for all, staff numbers declined, enrolments fell and the provision suffered. This was during the last Labour government, before austerity had really begun to bite, and now, with colleges facing up to 24% cuts to their adult education budget, things appear to be considerably worse. Access to free ESOL classes has become further restricted and, as recent media reports have revealed, funding cuts have hit Further Education Colleges particularly hard, placing many in a precipitous position (about half are now in deficit). As ever, it is the most vulnerable who will suffer - women, many of whom are economically dependent on their husbands, will indeed find it harder to access courses. For women from certain backgrounds the opportunity to get out of the house and interact with people from different backgrounds is limited. Being unable to access English classes will severely restrict their ability to integrate. I think it's very easy for politicians to talk a good game on integration - who would, after all, deny the importance of language? It stands to reason that, to successfully integrate, you must first be able to effectively communicate. But if there's no support for immigrants, if language lessons aren't accessible then any integration strategy that the government have cooked up will surely be doomed to failure.

 

[Red]

Superb.

Odd response. I must be thick too because I haven't got the foggiest what he means.

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

war is not the solution.

the only solution is to treat the refugees with respect as the most of them will go back after the war and if they have to tell then good stories about Europe to their children and people who stayed there it will become difficult for the hardliners to recruit new future murders

There is absolutely no reason to assume that the civil war is going to have a favourable outcome or that Syria will ever be 'safe' to return to in these people's lifetimes without our intervention, much less that the majority of these people would even want to return even if they could do. If hundreds of thousands (millions?) of ethic Albanians still haven't returned to their homeland then good luck convincing Syrians to. And it's absurd to think that Europeans treating refugees nicely is going to somehow negate Islamism as an ideology or the billion strong religion that enables it. It's proactive, not reactive. It's a far-right imperialist ideology, but because it has a brown minority face we assume it's somehow our doing.

 

[Red]

The BNPs interesting take on things.

Pictures of the body of a drowned little boy whose body was washed up on shore have sparked headlines from the left / liberal media such as ‘Photo of drowned boy sparks outcry’.’ (BBC News)

According to the left / liberals, Europeans are responsible for all of the world’s ills. And so we have this from the left-leaning Huffington Post:

‘Lying face down on the shore of a Bodrum beach this haunting image of a drowned Syrian toddler illustrates the perilous risks, and heartbreaking consequences, of the journey tens of thousands of migrant families have undertaken, chasing a better life in countries shuffling responsibility for taking them in.’

The message is quite plain: if millions of immigrants make life-threatening journeys in order illegally & /or wrongly to avail themselves of what Europeans have created for themselves, Europe is under some sort of obligation to let them have it. If they don’t, they are guilty of the consequences. Why exactly is not explained.


The tragic little lad was lifted off a beach by a Turkish gendarme. The Turks must know what beaches are used by these immigrants and who lets them have the boats. It seems that although the immigrants could quite safely stay in Turkey, the Muslim Turks are more than happy to see their co-religionists move on to Europe.



Muslim countries near to Syria including Turkey but mainly Shia Iran; rich Sunni Saudi Arabia etc. have a heavy involvement in the Syrian war, helping their proxies in the various factions fighting there. If moral responsibility for those fleeing the consequences of this war attaches to any nations, it is to them. Yet one never hears any of this mentioned by the BBC

Then there is the moral culpability of the parents of children who die whilst on the journey to the promised lands of Europe. The little lad in this case would not have died if his father had not hazarded his life in the way he did. As ever with the left though, it is never the fault of individuals that they suffer; it is always the fault of ‘society’ - if it is white, that is.

If David Cameron and the rest of the West do have any moral responsibility for the unfolding immigrant disaster, it is because they were not nearly firm enough in defending our rights to our own countries in the first place. The ludicrous, routinely abused refugee laws should have been abolished. The economic migrants crossing the Mediterranean should have been towed back to Libya and dumped on a beach there under the guns of our navies, not helped to land in Europe. Those entering Europe from Turkey should have been returned to that country.

Instead, as what would obviously happen from the first, immigrants have been encouraged in the belief that once in Europe, they are here to stay and can get their hands on all the benefits which we are finding we cannot afford for ourselves.

And so in increasing numbers they continue to flood in. And if these scores of thousands of Syrians are allowed to come here, there is no reason why the tens of millions of others in war-torn parts of the third world cannot also come on the same basis.

European Civilisation is already teetering on the brink thanks to the deliberate policy of destruction through mass immigration and multiculturalism.

If a firm line is not taken about the current crisis and soon, it could well spell the end of it. We should then see bloody chaos in this country and across Europe.


Their supporters agree

• 
  stoppitnow • 19 hours ago
  Our government should send arms to Syria who could then enlist all these young men to fight IS and make the country a fit place in which to live but instead Europe says come here and we will look after you.
  How many millions will eventually be encouraged to come here?
  Europe will certainly change because of it. Foreign ways, foreign religions, no doubt described as adding to our enrichment. What happens when Syria is full of old people and women and children? No doubt we will send foreign aid to help them out.
  What would have happened if all the young men in Europe had fled to America leaving their families behind as World War 2 unfolded?

• 
  Enoch_Powell • 20 hours ago
  What is not being mentioned in the media and by politicians, is that the majority of people crossing the Med and entering Greece (and at Calais) are mainly young (very aggressive) men.

 

[Red]

Peter Hitchens is on board too

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/a...S-won-t-save-refugees-destroying-country.html

"
When we become refugees one day (as we may well do), we will discover this."

 

[Red]

They haven't been UKIP's mouthpiece. They've consistently represented the right-wing of the Tory Party.

I think most Mail readers probably see UKIP as a party for oiks, tbh.

http://www.euractiv.com/development-policy/daily-mail-ukip-slammed-disgrace-news-533433

This Mail columnist supports UKIP policies, seems to me it's only their personnel they're concerned with.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/a...-Ukip-s-manifesto-know-parties-lying-But.html
How to keep Ed out

If Ukip candidates were as sound as most of their policies, this paper would be tempted to support the party.

Indeed, Nigel Farage deserves great credit for addressing public concerns over such issues as mass immigration and the scandalous waste of overseas aid – the former treated as taboo by the political class, the latter as sacrosanct.

But though mainstream politicians have only themselves to blame for the party’s existence, the Mail most emphatically does not support Ukip.

For Mr Farage is a one-man band, many of whose candidates are untrustworthy. And in all but a handful of seats, the reality is that a vote for Ukip will be wasted – or worse, a boost for statist, pro-immigration, EU enthusiast Ed Miliband.

But in three Labour/Ukip marginals – Great Grimsby, Dudley North and Heywood & Middleton – the Tories have no hope. Here, we urge conservatively inclined voters to support Ukip.

Elsewhere, the only sane advice to anyone who wants a healthy economy, immigration curbs and an EU referendum is to help the Tories keep Labour out.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/a...meless-Madame-Fifi-packing.html#ixzz3l2L8lacQ
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

 

[Aber gas]

I particularly like the part about European society teetering on the brink of chaos , is it really ? Footballs still on , Mr Ahmed in my local still has fags and milk and homes under the hammer appears to still be on later . This crisis is perfect for the bnp /nf / na ect because it gives them a context in which to spout their normal bollocks whilst pretending to speak for silent "majority ". Their latest March went well , couldn't get out of the train station ! Hilarious watching supposed members of the master race cowering behind a police line .

 

[Red]

I think they'd find the bit about Mr Ahmed still having fags and milk constituted European society teeering on the brink of chaos.

How they blame the parents of that boy is despicable.

Then there is the moral culpability of the parents of children who die whilst on the journey to the promised lands of Europe. The little lad in this case would not have died if his father had not hazarded his life in the way he did. As ever with the left though, it is never the fault of individuals that they suffer; it is always the fault of ‘society’ - if it is white, that is.

That's really horrible. The pretence that they care about the boy is pathetic.

And then there's this from the guy with the Enoch Powell avatar
Our government should send arms to Syria who could then enlist all these young men to fight IS and make the country a fit place in which to live but instead Europe says come here and we will look after you.

Cameron will be announcing how many Britain will be taking in today. Apparently, we're not taking any from Europe, but those on the outskirts of Syria.

 

[BlueBee]

Odd response. I must be thick too because I haven't got the foggiest what he means.

Don't play stupid. You're better than that.

 

[Red]

Don't play stupid. You're better than that.

Seriously, I honestly don't know what you're on about BB. Both Aber I and have asked you to clarify, so please do.

Is it something to do with Chelsea being denied something? Maybe it's the refugees fault Chelsea are struggling?

 

[BlueBee]

If it wasn't for the refugee crisis we'd be top of the league. Simple as that.

 

[Red]

If it wasn't for the refugee crisis we'd be top of the league. Simple as that.

Bloody Syrians

 

[BlueBee]

It's true though. Our players haven't been able to focus on the job of retaining the league because these pesky economic migrants are causing so much trouble in Europe.

Hazard doesn't turn into a shit player over 3 months. It's that kid Aylan's fault.

 

[Red]

Why are most of the refugees male?

Just been listening to a reporter on five live who is in Germany. He says although on the TV it seems they're mostly males from what he can see that is not the case.

Maybe Mourinho should send a scout over to Germany.

 

[Aber gas]

I debunked the myth that the majority of refugees are male earlier in the thread . Actually the un debunked it , not me . I'm good but not UN good .

 

[Red]

Have to laugh at Adrian Chiles on 5 Live. Talking about the refugees he made a distinction "the more sophisticated ones that speak English ". He can be quite clumsy sometimes, but his heart is in the right place.

 

[Gashead]

I don't like to concern myself with the BNP too often, but the only solution that is provided, either by the article or the comments below, is a stupid one. 'Sending arms to Syria' just doesn't work - it makes things worse. The US showed that with weapons provision in Libya, and I'm sure there were a fair share of fuck ups in Iraq and Afghanistan. They end up in the wrong hands and suddenly you're fighting people who have your weapons. Costs a lot of money too.

Some attempt at diplomatic discussions with countries providing ISIS with weapons would be far more productive, and wouldn't rile another generation like bombing the living daylights out of them would. But that's boring and doesn't cost billions of ££££ and $$$$, so not as popular.

 

[Gashead]

Oh and Cameron is announcing his plans re: refugees today, I await an underwhelming and slightly ambiguous statement which tells us little. Maybe I'll be surprised.

 

[allouso]

And do you know what happens when they reach these countries? They immediately run to Britain, Germany, Scandinavia. They same happened with Poland when they were under pressure to accept more

Some of them, maybe, but as a Lebanese i can assure you that the number of refugees here is almost 1/4 of the population. And we're not even counting the Syrians that are already here and the Palestinians that have been steadily coming here for the past 40 years.

There are ways to deal with a refugee crisis, opening your borders and allowing everyone in is not one of them, and we've done just that.

 

[smat]

Speaking of Lebanon, this is interesting: Denmark publishes anti-migration ads in Lebanese papers

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

The situation in Lebanon is absolutely mental too. At this point approximately 25% of the population is now Syrian.

 

[TheArtfulDodger]

They haven't been UKIP's mouthpiece. They've consistently represented the right-wing of the Tory Party.

I think most Mail readers probably see UKIP as a party for oiks, tbh.

Hardly a massive jump. The Express is the party of UKIP though. ,

 

[pontoonlew]

I've just seen a guy say that he saw a picture of a bloke with an iPhone 6 so he can't be a genuine refugee.

Fucking hell.

 

[Red]

I've just seen a guy say that he saw a picture of a bloke with an iPhone 6 so he can't be a genuine refugee.

Fucking hell.

I know iphones can do a lot of things, but I'm pretty sure they can't repel ISIS.

 

[Ian_Wrexham]

I've just seen a guy say that he saw a picture of a bloke with an iPhone 6 so he can't be a genuine refugee.

Fucking hell.

Surely someone with modern consumer goods is less likely to be an economic migrant* than someone without those things.

*obviously I reject the term 'economic migrant' and indeed the separation of those seeking to cross borders into "good" refugees and bad "economic migrants".

 

[Ian_Wrexham]

oh, a long history of anti-immigration? You should read about the german history, the whole one and not just the 12 dark years

Lots of german state agencies - particularly the security services - are still riddled by Nazis.

When the NSU went on a murder spree (killing mostly migrants) it was with the knowledge and complicity of the BfV.

 

[Aber gas]

20,000 over five years then chaps . I personally feel this might be a tad inadequate .

 

[Red]

There's about that many in Germany and Austria right now isn't there?