The PPV Discussion Thread

[Madglover]

When did the floor of the outside change to soft padding?

 

[Oaf]

We all saw it coming really, but HOLY SHIT. After years of it being blatantly obvious that WWE need to do so, they have finally pulled the god damn trigger on Bray Wyatt. For once, Bray Wyatt ACTUALLY FUCKING MATTERS.

All they've ever done with him is the same old shit:

1) Somebody who has nothing to do with Bray has a match.

2) Said somebody is about to win and... lights out!

3) Bray Wyatt attack from outta nowhere! WHY BRAY, WHY?!

4) Bray says a lot of cool sounding stuff without actually saying anything coherent paragraphs that actually make sense.

5) Bray loses. Return to step 1 for somebody else, or possibly go to step 6 for a bit...

6) Bray gets injured for a bit, comes back at step 1.

On the rare occasions they have him in a story that makes sense, he's great. And this Bray/Orton dynamic for WM is actually really good... and I say this as somebody who took a long time to buy into this Orton/Wyatt pairing. Whether Cena gets into the match or not, I actually really look forward to seeing where it's going.

 

[Dolph Ziggler]

When did the floor of the outside change to soft padding?

When they realised that bumping on actual steel was probably a bad idea. I like it. It gives them more creativity.

 

[Stevencc]

Fastlane was depressingly bad.

 

[Dolph Ziggler]

Fastlane was depressingly bad.

Yup, and it looks like 'Mania will be even worse.

 

[Stevencc]

It's not looking good, is it?

 

[Dolph Ziggler]

It's not looking good, is it?

I'm very glad I pirate everything.

What a disgusting kick in the teeth for full timers who work hard all year round for us, the fans.

 

[Leewilson]

I'm just confused how Goldberg vs Lesnar can main event when Goldberg can't wrestle more than 2 minutes?

 

[Libertine]

Fucking bizarre. I expected a Goldberg win, though was clinging onto a hope of it being Finn v KO at Mania. But just two bloody moves again, ridiculous. Part timer v part timer closing the show, great.

The main things that annoyed me though was Roman beating Braun! After what a good job they've done building Strowman to waste the blow off on youknowwho at FAST LANE. Then doing the exact same thing to Charlotte! Bizarre, utterly bizarre.

 

[Captain Scumbag]

There was no need for a Goldberg vs. Owens programme. Goldberg vs. Lesnar doesn’t need the title. Simply positioning Goldberg as that one guy Lesnar can’t beat (which they’ve done very well) is a good enough angle.

Strictly speaking, Owens vs. Jericho doesn’t need the title either. That match will draw because there’s a great 6-month backstory there. It’s just… I dunno. The title seemed a much bigger part of that story, so taking it off Owens at this late stage makes the feud seem less important somehow. Like it's been demoted.

I’m not as grumpy about this (or the squash) as I probably should be. I think the sheer predictability lessened the annoyingness somehow, but that speaks volumes about how I usually relate to the product nowadays. Not good.

On a very general level, I don’t mind Strowman losing clean to Reigns. The whole point of building up a monster heel is to eventually job him out to a babyface, so this result was inevitably going to happen at some point. Seems dumb to do it now, though. If that was always the idea, why not do the pay-off at WM? The match they did last night wasn’t half-bad. Wouldn’t have looked out of place somewhere in the middle of a WM card. Seems very anticlimactic and wasteful to do it on a B-rate PPV.

The women’s stuff is just being booked terribly at the moment. They so obviously should have delayed Bayley’s title win until WM. This heely stuff with Sasha could have waited until afterwards. What they're trying to do is a mess.

Very poor PPV.

 

[Smally]

I'm not totally against part timers holding the belt. But when the champion has wrestled less than 2 minutes in 10 years, no one wins. Poor PPV, and since the split I've got to say it's the Smackdown stuff I look forward to most

 

[Oaf]

All of that stalling pretty much guaranteed that it was going to be 2 move then done for that main event. A real shame... I don't actually mind Goldberg being the champion (though as I was going to say but Scumbag got there first, Goldberg vs Lesnar absolutely does not need the title... the titles is simply an after thought in that match now, whereas it could have been the focus of a match) as much as I mind Owens getting crushed for it to happen... About 6 months of title reign brought down like that. And whereas Goldberg has been getting a great reaction from fans thus far, I feel like this is going to turn fans against him now...

Plus, what happens after WM? Lesnar or Goldberg as champion... meaning we're guaranteed quite a while of part time champions now.

In other strange booking, we've not really talked about the Orton/Wyatt thing on here, have we? It's a bit shit that they actually did go down the predictable route of Orton, once again, pretending (copy and paste Orton vs Rollins WM31 buildup.... or Bryan vs Wyatt... lazy stuff) but it just seems odd that Orton has done what he's done. He's torn apart two people who were basically brothers in Luke Harper and Bray Wyatt, and now burned down Brays house/shed/sister Abigail site that he clearly holds very dearly (did you see Brays reaction?! Oh my god. Bring out the tissues, poor Bray )... well, I guess it all serves Bray right for... uh... um... wait, what in the hell did Bray actually do to deserve that, again? Oh yeah... NOTHING. Well, he beat Orton at a PPV fucking months ago. And that's actually it. Bray has recently beaten the likes of Cena and Styles cleanly on multiple occasions to win that title and has earned it... Orton, meanwhile, is pulling that shit just because Bray beat him. Do you think it's occurred to WWE that they've actually completely booked Orton as the heel, here?

 

[Captain Scumbag]

Oh, that story is completely broken as well. The supposed babyface has burned down the heel's property and DESECRATED HIS DEAD SISTER'S CORPSE, while the supposed badass heel has (understandably enough, TBF) cried like a baby.

That said, I pretty much collapsed from laughing when Orton did his pose after burning down Bray's shack, which redeemed it somewhat.

 

[Dolph Ziggler]

Went to the ICW show in Leeds the other night.

Really makes you realise how shite WWE's product it currently.

 

[Oaf]

So, once again we're heading into Wrestlemania, and once again everybody thinks that the card is complete and utter shite.

However, as I tend to find with most years when I start off apprehensive, it is growing on me. I think that we, as wrestling fans, tend to start to fantasy book Wrestlemania months in advance... and once it gets to the lead up to the rumble, we get a pretty clear picture of what we want. Example? I made a WM33 card prediction thread leading into the rumble... so I know I'm guilty of it.

And then, after telling ourselves that we have the perfect card in mind, WWE invariably go in a completely different direction. And then we judge the card that is against the card that we want, and without fail, that's bound to result in the real card seeming disappointing in comparison. I mean we all knew that Cena vs Taker was a no brainier this year (heck, Cena even blatantly said as much live on Smackdown!) yet instead we get Reigns vs Taker and Cena and Nikki vs Miz and Maryse. I don't think that anybody had that on their dream card...

But as I was saying, after initial disappointment in where the card is going, I do find myself warming to it. Yes, it has its flaws still (which I'll get into later) but in some ways, I actually think it's possibly the best Wrestlemania card WWE have put together on paper for quite a quite, at least from a booking perspective... examples of this are, specifically, Goldberg/Lesnar, Jericho/Owens, Triple H/Seth and Orton/Wyatt. Now, these feuds have certainly had their ups and downs, both for poor decisions (see the above regarding Wyatt/Orton) or poor luck (Seth getting injured again... though long term, it's sort of added a lot more to the fued) but the thing I love about this is that there are four huge matches here that actually had a heck of a lot of long term planning behind them. You don't tend to get much of that these days in WWE, but for me Wrestlemania should feel like a season finale of sorts, finally getting to see these matches that have a long term build to them. Last year, only Styles vs Jericho had any kind of long term build up, and that was somewhat squandered by the fact that they'd fought on the PPV before it.

Then a quick look at the rest:

People seem negative about Reigns vs Taker, as I was at first, but then I got to thinking... why? Is it just fear of a clean Reigns win? Because, actually, I think it's a pretty good "main event" level sounding match. They're two top guys, and I think it makes sense to give Reigns a Taker WM match before Taker can't do any more. And I actually feel as if the fear of Reigns winning is going to have people incredibly invested in the match... if he hits a 3rd or so spear late in the match and makes the cover, you can't say that you're not going to be on the edge of your seat praying for a kick out! I feel like this one will just be yet another case of Roman Reigns being given no chance and then going on to have a superb match.
I can't think of a better option for Reigns and if Taker isn't fighting Cena... I'm not actually sure that I can think of a better choice for him right now either. It's certainly better than sticking him in a random match with Shane... speaking of which...

Shane vs Styles, yeah, it's happening. Bang goes Styles chance for a 5* WM match. Or fucking does it? Because, generally speaking, Shane has matches that aren't technically great, but they're fucking spectacles. There was barely a wrestling move to be found in his match against Vince yet it's one of the most entertaining matches ever. Plus we know the guy is STILL nuts after what he pulled off last year. Whack him in there with a top dude like AJ? Damn. Slap a street fight stipulation on this and it brings up memories of Shane vs Angle... Shane, willing to take crazy bumps, vs a super talented dude. Potential for greatness here, and yeah, potential for Styles to have a WM classic, despite the fact that everybody seems to be writing that option off already.

Bayley vs Charlotte vs Sasha... I thought the womens triple threat last year was possibly the match of the night... and I like Bayley more than Becky, so surely this is just an upgrade?!

If that battle royal gets Strowman and Joe in it, it could be pretty fucking interesting to watch.

As another positive, we AREN'T getting Show vs Shaq... bullet fucking dodged.

Cena and Nikki vs Miz and Maryse is fucking random, and there's no way Miz and Maryse are winning (though how awesome would that be... Cena fails in THREE chances to be Miz at WM ) but surely this is ultimately leading to Cena proposing? That's what the world seems to think, and it'll actually be a surprise if it doesn't happen now

And there's nothing else too bad there. The smackdown womens match has potential for surprised (c'mon already Asuka), Austin Aries near enough gets his official WWE debut at Wrestlemania and the Raw tag title fight, while pretty meh, ain't too offensive.

So balls to it. I'm feeling pretty positive about WM. Yeah, it may end up a bit of a disappointment (as I'd say it did last year) but it may also surprise us as well (see WM 31 the year before... people wrote that one off, too).

 

[Captain Scumbag]

I think that we, as wrestling fans, tend to start to fantasy book Wrestlemania months in advance... and once it gets to the lead up to the rumble, we get a pretty clear picture of what we want. And then, after telling ourselves that we have the perfect card in mind, WWE invariably go in a completely different direction. And then we judge the card that is against the card that we want, and without fail, that's bound to result in the real card seeming disappointing in comparison.

Yes, fans get grumpy because they can fantasy book a better alternative. And, yes, a lot of those grumps will probably end up deriving some enjoyment from the show, despite it not being what they wanted. That's a possibility with every PPV.

But here's my question: how long would you usually persist with a TV show that consistently makes you think you could write something much better?

 

[T.A]

Actually think Lesner v Goldberg could be one of the worst feuds in WM history.

 

[Dolph Ziggler]

Actually think Lesner v Goldberg could be one of the worst feuds in WM history.

Yup.

 

[iesty wfc]

rumours that the Wrestlemania set this year is going to be a roller coaster.... if Shane O'Mac doesn't have a spot jumping off it then i will watch an episode of TNA

 

[Oaf]

Yes, fans get grumpy because they can fantasy book a better alternative. And, yes, a lot of those grumps will probably end up deriving some enjoyment from the show, despite it not being what they wanted. That's a possibility with every PPV.

But here's my question: how long would you usually persist with a TV show that consistently makes you think you could write something much better?

I think people tend to think that they could write better than WWE do pretty consistently. I've even seen examples of people moaning about the attitude era during the attitude era, when the internet was still shiny and new. Stone Cold being shoved down peoples throats was getting boring, The Rock was good on the mic but awful in the ring, Triple H was nowhere near worthy of his push, The Undertakers new gimmick was awful, Mankind was nothing more than a glorified stunt man, ect. As long as forums have existed, people have enjoyed moaning about wrestling.

This being said, I'm actually really looking forward to WM now. It's odd, to me it still feels as if it needs another week or two of build, but fuck it, bring it on. I really like this card due to the multiple matches with long term build up (something so rare today, and there are loads of them here) and even the matches that have sprung up out of nowhere like Taker/Reigns and Styles/Shane have me sold on them now. Of course we'll never really know until the show is over, but right now I see a heck of a lot of potential for a fantastic Wrestlemania.

Though, of course, it could be the best WM ever but if Reigns beats Taker, no matter how the rest of the card goes, the internet will say it was absolutely shit. I almost want to see it happen just to see how the world would react...

 

[Captain Scumbag]

You're right: fantasy booking and moaning are what pro-wresting fans do. Justifiably or not, though, I don't consider myself the sort of smark who moans for the sake of moaning. I usually give credit where it's due. I always want to enjoy the show. I'm always delighted when they prove me wrong.

But I'm not watching live this year. I have Monday off (for other reasons) and I could watch for free by signing up to a 30-day network trial, but there's just nothing – literally nothing – on that card that seems worth staying up for. I understand there's the potential for it to surpass expectation, but that's not enough this year. Not for me anyway.

I'm glad you think differently because... well, you're going; and although I get that the whole WM experience (i.e. the whole weekend of events) is now the draw, it would still suck to fly 4,000 miles to attend a WM show you weren't psyched for.

So, yeah... safe journey and all that. I hope you have a great time.

P.S. I think a lot of smarky fans are receptive to the idea of Reigns going over if it's accompanied by a heel turn.

 

[T.A]

I'd say Reigns is favourite - in fact I would prefer him to win and finally gets the Undertaker to call it a day. There's very few matches I'm bothered about this year, Bray v Orton should be good and Jericho v Owens. Rollins v Triple H will be interesting in so far as how they will play Rollins injury etc. Other than that I'm really struggling and it could be the first one where I end up fast forwarding more of it than watching it.

 

[Renegade]

Haven't paid any attention in the last two years apart from the Royal Rumbles and last year's Wrestlemania - why is Cena buried in a mixed tag team match with The Miz when he was the WWE champion at the Royal Rumble? Surely he could have been used to put someone over...

 

[T.A]

Cena put someone over? Are you mad?

 

[Renegade]

 

[Libertine]

Looking forward to it, if not as much as other years. WM is always an exciting event due to the scale of it etc. Just hope it's 1) shorter than last year though unlikely looking at card and 2) less weird booking decisions.

Agree on short build. Usually has around 6 weeks but they've only had 4 this year (but 6 for Fast Lane!).

 

[Pilgrim Meister]

Looking forward to it, if not as much as other years. WM is always an exciting event due to the scale of it etc. Just hope it's 1) shorter than last year though unlikely looking at card and 2) less weird booking decisions.

Agree on short build. Usually has around 6 weeks but they've only had 4 this year (but 6 for Fast Lane!).

2 hours pre show, and 4 hours for the main PPV. Total of 6 hours

 

[Libertine]

2 hours pre show, and 4 hours for the main PPV. Total of 6 hours

That's the plan but last year's main show went close to 5 hours.

 

[RavenBish]

not excited by the card but there's enough talent on there to make it work and it's still infinitely more appealing than last year so I am looking forward to the spectacle.

 

[Oaf]

I guess it's all down to taste, but of the last three WM's this is certainly the card I've been excited for the most I'd say. I think that I usually seem to get myself hyped up for it in the end anyway, but this one didn't need to convince me as much as the last two years, for sure. A lot of natural feeling fueds that make sense and have been building for months.

Anyway, this aside, I did my first ever Hall of Fame last night. I only went because I had nothing else to be doing and found some really cheap tickets, but I'm so glad that I did. And I say this despite the fact that Angle aside, the class wasn't exactly one I was all that excited for (literally never seen anything of the Rock N Roll Express, saw very little of DDP, Wasn't really watching it during Beth Pheonix run and Teddy Long used to bug the crap out of me ) I still found myself really invested in what these people had to say.

Of course, Angle was the highlight. Absolutely amazing to see him back in a WWE environment and super entertaining speech. And he is about the last of the big names I'd never seen live before. I can't even think of any wrestlers out there who I want to see live in person and haven't actually seen now.

In other news, downtown Orlando is a SHIT HOLE. Absolute dump.