The Religion Thread

[Stagat]

Not sure that hashtag will trend tbh

 

[Womble98]

what would u like us to do

Those who don't have citizenship should be deported, they quite clearly don't like the UK very much.
Cut government funding to any community initiatives involved (see the recent channel 4 documentary for more info), cut funding to any faith schools found to be spouting this shit, and harsher convictions for terrorism offences. Those convicted of terrorism should be put in permanent solitary, give them books and whatever, but don't let them mix with other extremists. Pretty sure their chants of "British police burn in hell" and "UK go to hell" could be classed as a hate crime. If you walked the streets chanting any group of people "go to hell" you would be done for it. These marches should be banned, and those who continue to spout this toxic filth should have their kids taken away from them, as they are quite clearly indoctrinating them.

 

[Dr Mantis Toboggan]

they aren't directly threatening anyone with that speech. same way u and your friends should be able to chant 'allah was a paedo' or 'sieg heil' or whatever u radical kids think is cool this week, same way they should be allowed to chant whatever stupidity they want to. selectively limiting freedom of speech to what is considered 'tasteless' at that particular time is a worrying trend, as is deporting people for expressing said opinion

 

[Womble98]

they aren't directly threatening anyone with that speech. same way u and your friends should be able to chant 'allah was a paedo' or 'sieg heil' or whatever u radical kids think is cool this week, same way they should be allowed to chant whatever stupidity they want to. selectively limiting freedom of speech to what is considered 'tasteless' at that particular time is a worrying trend, as is deporting people for expressing said opinion

When that speech spurs people on to blowing themselves up on trains, or killing British civilians and innocent civilians all over the world, it is harmful and shouldn't be tolerated.

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

what would u like us to do

Get rid of faith schools.

 

[Aber gas]

When that speech spurs people on to blowing themselves up on trains, or killing British civilians and innocent civilians all over the world, it is harmful and shouldn't be tolerated.

Will this apply to all hate speech? When the far right incite people to burn down mosques or attack refugees will their children be taken away?
When I protest against fascists and perhaps incite people into physical confrontation do my kids get taken away ? I don't want to live in the country you describe fella. One of the biggest differences between us and Islamic fascists like isil is the idea of freedom. Once we give up free expression and start talking of interment,taking children away and forced deportations we have already surrendered.

 

[Aber gas]

Get rid of faith schools.

I don't disagree, I'm not sure it could happen currently though. There are almost 7000 state funded faith schools and loads more in the private sector ( couldn't find any current figures for independent schools) . I don't think there is the political will for this to happen currently.

 

[Womble98]

Will this apply to all hate speech? When the far right incite people to burn down mosques or attack refugees will their children be taken away?
When I protest against fascists and perhaps incite people into physical confrontation do my kids get taken away ? I don't want to live in the country you describe fella. One of the biggest differences between us and Islamic fascists like isil is the idea of freedom. Once we give up free expression and start talking of interment,taking children away and forced deportations we have already surrendered.

Neither do I but in a world of religious fascism the norms of a moral society can't always be applied.

 

[Aber gas]

Neither do I but in a world of religious fascism the norms of a moral society can't always be applied.

I completely disagree, in troubled times it's even more important to reassert our norms and values. Otherwise what are we defending?

 

[Womble98]

I completely disagree, in troubled times it's even more important to reassert our norms and values. Otherwise what are we defending?

The right to live in peace and safety from extremist ideology.

 

[silkyman]

I don't disagree, I'm not sure it could happen currently though. There are almost 7000 state funded faith schools and loads more in the private sector ( couldn't find any current figures for independent schools) . I don't think there is the political will for this to happen currently.

Can we also get rid of laws ensuring that non faith schools still have to have 'collective worship'?

 

[Dr Mantis Toboggan]

The right to live in peace and safety from extremist ideology.

which we do, considering we've lost one innocent to terrorism in a decade. other values include freedom, and equality. values we don't need to attack due to an existential threat. which is what said threat is. more people have probably died from dumb shit like vending machines than islamic extremism in the past decade. why don't u round them up and take their rights

 

[Stevencc]

I'd welcome that, one of the c*** robbed a quid off me once.

 

[Aber gas]

The right to live in peace and safety from extremist ideology.

But if our freedoms are surrendered then we embrace an extreme ideology. We live in relative peace and safety now, conceding our hard fought for freedoms for negligible returns in our safety is not a trade I'm prepared to make. Fascist Germany was reasonably peaceful and safe for a while as long as you weren't what the regime regarded as an enemy of the Reich. Do you actually think targeting these gobshites will make Britain safer in anyway?

 

[Aber gas]

Can we also get rid of laws ensuring that non faith schools still have to have 'collective worship'?

Shouldn't think that's going to happen soon either.

 

[Womble98]

I'm not 100% convinced by my own position on this all, yet I think certain steps must be taken. Faith schools must end for sure, a position I previously didn't hold (if you look at the start of this thread).

 

[Cheese & Biscuits]

I'd welcome that, one of the c*** robbed a quid off me once.

I put a quid in the one at work the other day for a Dr Pepper. I got two cans out and £1.80 change. I think it's proof that God exists as I needed that money later for a stamp.

 

[slaphead]

Faith schools must end for sure, a position I previously didn't hold (if you look at the start of this thread).

Do you mean all faith schools, including the Catholic and CoE ones as well, or just the Islamic ones?

 

[silkyman]

Shouldn't think that's going to happen soon either.

I know. And it's a joke, really.

Hell, we had a c*** filibuster a law to make kids in secondary school learn some basics of first aid, with one of his angles being 'when would you find the time' and kids don't get the same road safety lessons either, partly due to lack of time.

But obviously we can't stop them singing 'he's got the whole world in his hands' and reciting the Lord's Prayer of a morning.

That's far more important.

 

[Womble98]

We learnt first aid in my school, CPR lessons in biology, and heimlich manoeuvre

 

[silkyman]

Do you mean all faith schools, including the Catholic and CoE ones as well, or just the Islamic ones?

All, ideally.

 

[Dr Mantis Toboggan]

without religion there'd be no wars discuss

 

[silkyman]

No. Because it's incorrect.

There'd be fewer.

 

[Look Out There Are Llamas]

without religion there'd be no wars discuss

Not a cat in hells chance.

 

[JimJams]

 

[Womble98]

I like what David Mitchell says on this topic

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

He seems confused about what atheism is. Most atheists are agnostics also. I agree about the politics thing though. Religion exacerbates conflicts and introduces weird new prejudices, but I don't think it's the cause of many wars, never mind most.

 

[silkyman]

No. Most atheists aren't agnostics. Agnostics are agnostic. Atheists are atheist.

And there have absolutely certainly been wars started due to religion and sectarianism. Usually based on which brand of religion should be in charge.

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

No. Most atheists aren't agnostics. Agnostics are agnostic. Atheists are atheist.

I think you're confused as to what an agnostic is, and I suspect you are one yourself. It's not someone who believes they don't know either way, it's someone who believes they can't know either way. Atheism/theism deals with belief, agnosticism deals with knowledge. I would argue that the majority of atheists accept that they can't really know if a deity exists or not, even if they don't believe one does. Certainly the most prominent atheists like Dawkins, Harris, Hitchens fall into that category.

And there have absolutely certainly been wars started due to religion and sectarianism.

Never said there hadn't. In the vast majority of cases though religion is just a pretext.

 

[Womble98]

Is it also not arguable that wars have been stopped due to religion? Christians often stopped fighting each other when told to by the Pope.