Things We Hate

[Cas]

Getting sanctioned by the Work Programme through no fault of your own and then having them hound you to attend 2-3 weekly appointments even though you can't afford the fucking travel fare. c***. Hope they burn to the fucking ground.

 

[Cas]

Getting sanctioned by the Work Programme through no fault of your own and then having them hound you to attend 2-3 weekly appointments even though you can't afford the fucking travel fare. c***. Hope they burn to the fucking ground.

 

[Alty]

Getting sanctioned by the Work Programme through no fault of your own and then having them hound you to attend 2-3 weekly appointments even though you can't afford the fucking travel fare. c***. Hope they burn to the fucking ground.

What's the situation? I've been thoroughly unimpressed by my dealings with the job centre in the past, so definitely sympathise.

Are you entitled to jobseekers or have you not paid in enough?

 

[Cas]

What's the situation? I've been thoroughly unimpressed by my dealings with the job centre in the past, so definitely sympathise.

Are you entitled to jobseekers or have you not paid in enough?

Yeah I'm entitled to JSA.

Apparently I missed an appointment on the 10th April. Didn't get a letter, didn't get a phone call, nothing. Phoned up and told them this and I got a letter a few days later from a 'decision maker' saying my reason for not attending the appointment wasn't good enough. They stopped my benefit for a month because of this. In hindsight, I suppose I should have told them that I had a doctors appointment or something. Thankfully I should receive my next payment in eight days because the sanction will be up. Still, a month without money has been unbearable.

Good way to get someone off benefits though, eh? I can't prove I never got a letter so there's nothing I can do. Surprised they don't try that on more people.

 

[SUTSS]

They should give you travel reimbursement for coming in if it isn't you actual sign in day (they don't like to actual tell you this though).

 

[Alty]

Yeah I'm entitled to JSA.

Apparently I missed an appointment on the 10th April. Didn't get a letter, didn't get a phone call, nothing. Phoned up and told them this and I got a letter a few days later from a 'decision maker' saying my reason for not attending the appointment wasn't good enough. They stopped my benefit for a month because of this. In hindsight, I suppose I should have told them that I had a doctors appointment or something. Thankfully I should receive my next payment in eight days because the sanction will be up. Still, a month without money has been unbearable.

Good way to get someone off benefits though, eh? I can't prove I never got a letter so there's nothing I can do. Surprised they don't try that on more people.

Sounds very draconian. SUTSS makes a good point - you should definitely chase up travel expenses wherever you can.

Good luck in the job search generally btw. You've always come across as a smart bloke on here. No doubt you'd be a good employee if you could just catch a break.

 

[Cas]

Cheers, alty. I apply for a lot of jobs per week so hopefully I'll get lucky sooner or later

 

[Red]

Cas, I'm with you all the way mate. My experiences have been absolutely atrocious with one Work Programme provider. This is what's been happenening. First off I got this adviser who is about 20 years old and struts round the office with his chest stuck out. Throughout nearly the whole of my first appointment with him he talked about himself. I particulalry recall him saying if he was unemployed he'd clean shit out of toilets if it got him a job and that he is extremely target driven. He did ask me roughly how many jobs per week I was applying for and when I told him he replied that it wasn't enough. This is despite the fact that when I sign on my adviser at JCP always checks my UJ account and is satisfied I'm doing all I can to get a job.

During the first interview with this boy from the Work Programme he mandated me to attend a 2 day course in warehousing at my local college and told me that an agency would be in attendance and there would be a guaranteed interview from the agency. If you saw my CV, like he did, you'd see that I haven't worked in a warehouse for over 15 years and since 1999 I've been in further and higher education and office based employment. I'm not adverse to doing warehouse work, but I felt that mandating me to go on that course would be a waste of the agency's and my time. I didn't refuse because that would have meant a sanction.

I got down there the following day and to cut a long story short after looking ay my CV the woman from the agency asked me 'being honest do you think it's a waste of time you being here today?'. Not wanting to do anything to imply I was turning it down I told her that although I would prefer other types of work I'd be prepared to work in a warehouse. She asked why I'd applied and I told her that I'd been mandated to by my WP provider. She basically told me I wasn't what they were looking for and to go back to the WP provider and tell them it was inappropriate of them to send me in the first place. I did exactly that, but the boy wasn't there. I explained what had happened to his colleauge who asked me who had sent me down there, when I told him the boy's name he just rolled his eyes as if to say 'not again!'.

On another occasion he told me he was putting me forward for a job working in a sandwich factory on the production line. 12 hours shifts including weekends. I rang him up later to explain that I couldn't work weekends because I have my son then and his mum (we're separated) works weekends so I have to have him at weekends. He said he'd call me back. When he rang me back his attitude was smug. He said 'FACT! because it says nothing in your claimant committment about childcare I am still putting you forward for the job'. I explained to him that this would force my ex to pay for childcare that she really couldn't afford. He wasn't interested. I checked my claimant committment and in one part it did state that I have my son at weekends but in the part about days and hours I could work I did state I could work weekends. This was an oversight on my part so I went to my JCP, explained what had happened and asked if I could have my committment amended in accordance with my availabilty at weekends. I wasn't too confident as JCP staff range from human beings to proto fascists. Fortunately a human dealt with my problem and she actually said it was unfair that they were forcing me to apply for that job. She gave me a print off of my claimant committment and I couldn't get to the WP provider fast enough to rub it in the boy's face, but unfortunately he wasn't there.

Eventually in January this year I managed to get a job, but it was temporary and I was shit at it as well. When I returned to the WP, because whether in employment or not you're saddled with the c*** for 2 years, I got a new adviser, but she was ill on the first appointment so I got the boy instead. I told him I'd started doing some voluntary work that could lead to employment and would improve my skillset. I kid you not his response was that I shouldn't be doing any voluntary work and that I should be job searching ALL the time. My adviser at JCP couldn't believe he'd said that when I told her. This WP advise one I have now is slightly more competent than the boy, but she talks to people like shit and bullies them, especially the youngsters. There is one girl who she mandates to go in every day from 9.00 - 15.30 to do a jobsearch. One of her clients was this young girl who had minor learning difficulties. Every time I was in there she talked to her like shit, then one day the girl got a job causing the adviser to be all pally having a laugh and a joke with the girl. After my last job and just before I returned to the WP, I started volunteering in welfare rights, sitting in on interviews and tribunals, a short course, learning more about the benefits system etc. One day the manager asked me if I'd do some leafletting to raise awareness of what we're doing. At my next appointment at WP the firs tthing my adviser said to me was ' you've been seen leafletting who was it for?'. I told her and she wrote it down then actually phoned my manager the next day to verify it was them I'd been leafletting for. I wasn't aware it was the remit of WP providers to investigate benefit fraud. Since she learned that I'm volunteering my mandated apoointments went from weekly or fortnightly to 3 times per week. Just out of spite.

These are things that have happened to me and that I've seen. In addition to this I have heard one bloke say that if he saw the boy down a dark alley at night he'd leather him. I have been told by people there who are on ESA that the boy and other advisers are forcing them to apply for jobs when by law nobody on ESA is to be forced into applying for jobs. Finally, there is quite widespread acknowledgement among JCP staff that the WP provider's staff are incompetent. This is reflected in my discussions with other people on this programme, none of whom have said that it has benefitted them in any way. Hardly surprising when there is a culture of hectoring and stunning levels of incomptetence.

In fairness to them there are a few members of staff there whose whole ethos is not to shove someone into something unsuitable or inapprpriate just to get a fucking job start and a payment to the company. Some of them do actually care and put their client's needs not theirs at the centre of what they are doing.

Thankfully come what may my time on the WP ends in July. It would be an understatement to say I cannot fuckin wait.

 

[SUTSS]

I experience the good and the bad in my last period in the job centre earlier this year. My advisor was an old boy who was retiring at the end of the year and was as such doing the job that he thought he should be doing and not the job he was being told to do. Frequently told me about how good things were before they were forced to treat people like numbers and not people. I think he enjoyed seeing me just to have a moan.

However, I would quite often not able to get a meeting with him and would be put on to this other woman who was horrible. No matter how much I'd done in the week it was never enough or if it was enough she 'doubted' I was telling the truth. She was desperately looking for something to sanction me over but I never gave her a chance fortunately. She tried to sign me up for this thing that I wasn't eligible for (and I told her this) but still had to turn up at 9 to be told to go home because I wasn't eligible.

 

[Cas]

Blimey, Red, sounds like you've had it worse than me!

I've had some of the same, particularly the advisor not showing up. I've been to appointments and told that my advisor is off today. Beg your fucking pardon? Will she be getting sanctioned then, pal? No? Okay. Absolutely love wasting my time, cheers love. I'll be honest, I despise my current advisor. She's fairly young, she'll sit there and she has one of her earbuds in listening to music. Ignorant, absolutely ignorant. I got a letter through in November with the old "a doubt has arisen" on my JSA claim. Apparently I had missed an appointment. I looked at the date and it was Monday 11th November. "Bit odd," I thought. I said odd, I was in the Ingeus building on the fucking course she'd put me on! That's why I wasn't at an appointment with her. I could see her through the glass in the bloody door, the dopey bint. Explained that to her and she was like "Oh, oh right. Hmmm." If she wasn't a woman I'd have DDT'd her through the fucking desk.

I've worked as a freelance web designer in the past and my old advisor still tried to send me on a basic computer course in their building. Basic as in learning to send e-mails, browse the internet, use UJM etc. Sometimes I just get the feeling they want to know what you're doing, that or just want to waste your time.

I've also been asked to attend appointments in interview clothes. I'm sorry but why? why? I didn't even have interview clothes. My old advisor told me I couldn't get any financial help so when I turned up to said appointment in jeans, this other lady who was running this 'workshop' thing told me I should have been given money, so she toddled off and got me £30 in £2 coins.

I've also been warned that I could be sanctioned for not owning a mobile phone because I need to be contactable 24/7. It may appear strange to some people that I don't own a phone, but my old one broke and I've not needed to replace it. I don't have many friends and they all contact me via Facebook should they want to. Also been threatened with a sanction because I couldn't attend a short course. Well, I could but I would have had to miss a day due to appointments relating to my health. I'm diabetic so I have quite a few appointments with my GP and other places. This particular appointment was an eye check for diabetic neuropathy (spelling?), which is basically damage to the eyes which can result in blindness. So I'm sure people will understand why I wouldn't want to put that off, especially since I already have background neuropathy and I'm only 27. Oh well.

With having no friends, a fair few health problems and no job, sometimes I just wonder why I don't just take all my diabetic medication and end it. It's getting to the point where I can't really cope. I've had no money since around April 23 ish or there abouts. I borrowed £5 off my mum and that's gone after I got some basic food from Aldi. Last night I had a bag of Walkers crisps that were four months out of date. Living the dream.

Too long didn't read: Job centre wankers. Scum, sub-human scum.

 

[Techno Natch]

It's stupid really. It should be about trying to get people into the right job for them and the company. If you try to push people into jobs they don't want then they will just end up out of work again soon.

Obviously there has to be a balance and sometimes you have to go for something you might not be your first choice but it's gone to far the other way.

 

[Dazza]

Blimey, Red, sounds like you've had it worse than me!

I've had some of the same, particularly the advisor not showing up. I've been to appointments and told that my advisor is off today. Beg your fucking pardon? Will she be getting sanctioned then, pal? No? Okay. Absolutely love wasting my time, cheers love. I'll be honest, I despise my current advisor. She's fairly young, she'll sit there and she has one of her earbuds in listening to music. Ignorant, absolutely ignorant. I got a letter through in November with the old "a doubt has arisen" on my JSA claim. Apparently I had missed an appointment. I looked at the date and it was Monday 11th November. "Bit odd," I thought. I said odd, I was in the Ingeus building on the fucking course she'd put me on! That's why I wasn't at an appointment with her. I could see her through the glass in the bloody door, the dopey bint. Explained that to her and she was like "Oh, oh right. Hmmm." If she wasn't a woman I'd have DDT'd her through the fucking desk.

I've worked as a freelance web designer in the past and my old advisor still tried to send me on a basic computer course in their building. Basic as in learning to send e-mails, browse the internet, use UJM etc. Sometimes I just get the feeling they want to know what you're doing, that or just want to waste your time.

I've also been asked to attend appointments in interview clothes. I'm sorry but why? why? I didn't even have interview clothes. My old advisor told me I couldn't get any financial help so when I turned up to said appointment in jeans, this other lady who was running this 'workshop' thing told me I should have been given money, so she toddled off and got me £30 in £2 coins.

I've also been warned that I could be sanctioned for not owning a mobile phone because I need to be contactable 24/7. It may appear strange to some people that I don't own a phone, but my old one broke and I've not needed to replace it. I don't have many friends and they all contact me via Facebook should they want to. Also been threatened with a sanction because I couldn't attend a short course. Well, I could but I would have had to miss a day due to appointments relating to my health. I'm diabetic so I have quite a few appointments with my GP and other places. This particular appointment was an eye check for diabetic neuropathy (spelling?), which is basically damage to the eyes which can result in blindness. So I'm sure people will understand why I wouldn't want to put that off, especially since I already have background neuropathy and I'm only 27. Oh well.

With having no friends, a fair few health problems and no job, sometimes I just wonder why I don't just take all my diabetic medication and end it. It's getting to the point where I can't really cope. I've had no money since around April 23 ish or there abouts. I borrowed £5 off my mum and that's gone after I got some basic food from Aldi. Last night I had a bag of Walkers crisps that were four months out of date. Living the dream.

Too long didn't read: Job centre wankers. Scum, sub-human scum.

You have my sympathy.I was on the Work Programme until recently and they were an utter waste of time.I ended up having to go to Maximus every single day.When i argued against this they said that if i had a job i would have to go to that every week day.

I also got threatend with being sanctioned for not giving them a phone number.Got fed up with the stupid old bag i saw at Maximus sending my C.V over to companys who had job vacancys that i was not even qualified to do.This is because the work programme get money if you get a job.

I was sanctioned for missing an appointment with Maximus and they claimed they sent a letter to me confirming the appointment.I never received a letter about it and in the end i got the sanctioned overturned.

 

[spireite]

Being out of work sounds a right pain in the arse!

 

[Cheese & Biscuits]

Cas, I'm with you all the way mate. My experiences have been absolutely atrocious with one Work Programme provider. This is what's been happenening. First off I got this adviser who is about 20 years old and struts round the office with his chest stuck out. Throughout nearly the whole of my first appointment with him he talked about himself. I particulalry recall him saying if he was unemployed he'd clean shit out of toilets if it got him a job and that he is extremely target driven. He did ask me roughly how many jobs per week I was applying for and when I told him he replied that it wasn't enough. This is despite the fact that when I sign on my adviser at JCP always checks my UJ account and is satisfied I'm doing all I can to get a job.

During the first interview with this boy from the Work Programme he mandated me to attend a 2 day course in warehousing at my local college and told me that an agency would be in attendance and there would be a guaranteed interview from the agency. If you saw my CV, like he did, you'd see that I haven't worked in a warehouse for over 15 years and since 1999 I've been in further and higher education and office based employment. I'm not adverse to doing warehouse work, but I felt that mandating me to go on that course would be a waste of the agency's and my time. I didn't refuse because that would have meant a sanction.

I got down there the following day and to cut a long story short after looking ay my CV the woman from the agency asked me 'being honest do you think it's a waste of time you being here today?'. Not wanting to do anything to imply I was turning it down I told her that although I would prefer other types of work I'd be prepared to work in a warehouse. She asked why I'd applied and I told her that I'd been mandated to by my WP provider. She basically told me I wasn't what they were looking for and to go back to the WP provider and tell them it was inappropriate of them to send me in the first place. I did exactly that, but the boy wasn't there. I explained what had happened to his colleauge who asked me who had sent me down there, when I told him the boy's name he just rolled his eyes as if to say 'not again!'.

On another occasion he told me he was putting me forward for a job working in a sandwich factory on the production line. 12 hours shifts including weekends. I rang him up later to explain that I couldn't work weekends because I have my son then and his mum (we're separated) works weekends so I have to have him at weekends. He said he'd call me back. When he rang me back his attitude was smug. He said 'FACT! because it says nothing in your claimant committment about childcare I am still putting you forward for the job'. I explained to him that this would force my ex to pay for childcare that she really couldn't afford. He wasn't interested. I checked my claimant committment and in one part it did state that I have my son at weekends but in the part about days and hours I could work I did state I could work weekends. This was an oversight on my part so I went to my JCP, explained what had happened and asked if I could have my committment amended in accordance with my availabilty at weekends. I wasn't too confident as JCP staff range from human beings to proto fascists. Fortunately a human dealt with my problem and she actually said it was unfair that they were forcing me to apply for that job. She gave me a print off of my claimant committment and I couldn't get to the WP provider fast enough to rub it in the boy's face, but unfortunately he wasn't there.

Eventually in January this year I managed to get a job, but it was temporary and I was shit at it as well. When I returned to the WP, because whether in employment or not you're saddled with the c*** for 2 years, I got a new adviser, but she was ill on the first appointment so I got the boy instead. I told him I'd started doing some voluntary work that could lead to employment and would improve my skillset. I kid you not his response was that I shouldn't be doing any voluntary work and that I should be job searching ALL the time. My adviser at JCP couldn't believe he'd said that when I told her. This WP advise one I have now is slightly more competent than the boy, but she talks to people like shit and bullies them, especially the youngsters. There is one girl who she mandates to go in every day from 9.00 - 15.30 to do a jobsearch. One of her clients was this young girl who had minor learning difficulties. Every time I was in there she talked to her like shit, then one day the girl got a job causing the adviser to be all pally having a laugh and a joke with the girl. After my last job and just before I returned to the WP, I started volunteering in welfare rights, sitting in on interviews and tribunals, a short course, learning more about the benefits system etc. One day the manager asked me if I'd do some leafletting to raise awareness of what we're doing. At my next appointment at WP the firs tthing my adviser said to me was ' you've been seen leafletting who was it for?'. I told her and she wrote it down then actually phoned my manager the next day to verify it was them I'd been leafletting for. I wasn't aware it was the remit of WP providers to investigate benefit fraud. Since she learned that I'm volunteering my mandated apoointments went from weekly or fortnightly to 3 times per week. Just out of spite.

These are things that have happened to me and that I've seen. In addition to this I have heard one bloke say that if he saw the boy down a dark alley at night he'd leather him. I have been told by people there who are on ESA that the boy and other advisers are forcing them to apply for jobs when by law nobody on ESA is to be forced into applying for jobs. Finally, there is quite widespread acknowledgement among JCP staff that the WP provider's staff are incompetent. This is reflected in my discussions with other people on this programme, none of whom have said that it has benefitted them in any way. Hardly surprising when there is a culture of hectoring and stunning levels of incomptetence.

In fairness to them there are a few members of staff there whose whole ethos is not to shove someone into something unsuitable or inapprpriate just to get a fucking job start and a payment to the company. Some of them do actually care and put their client's needs not theirs at the centre of what they are doing.

Thankfully come what may my time on the WP ends in July. It would be an understatement to say I cannot fuckin wait.

I'm actually stunned at some of this. Thankfully, I've never been unemployed so don't have any experiences of the Job Centre but this sounds horrific. There must be a better way, surely? It sounds like they start with the mindset that everyone is happy with being unemployed and looking to stay on benefits rather than actively looking for work. That's got to be wrong for a start.

All the best to all who have to go through that!

 

[Veggie Legs]

That sounds absolutely awful, Red and Cas. They sound like they should be exceptional stories but the impression I get is that most people get treated that way.

What are these Work Programmes, and who runs them? I thought it was part of JCP but from what you've written I guess not.

 

[Stagat]

Cas , you mention you've worked as a freelance web designer before. Are you still pitching for work there?

 

[Red]

That sounds absolutely awful, Red and Cas. They sound like they should be exceptional stories but the impression I get is that most people get treated that way.

What are these Work Programmes, and who runs them? I thought it was part of JCP but from what you've written I guess not.

If you've been unemployed for 1 year the DWP will put you on a work programme (not sure what the criteria for ESA is). These are run by private companies who are supposed to take steps to help you find a job. The main two are a4e and Ingeus, however a4e have just been bought out. Work programme lasts for 2 years, but even if you get a job then lose it you still have to go back to them if your 2 years hasn't expired.

 

[Red]

Being out of work sounds a right pain in the arse!

It is mate. The stereotype that everyone on benefits is tossing it off and has it easy is bollocks. There are some people tossing it off, but I resent being treated as though I'm one of them by WP.

 

[Dazza]

The other thing the Work Programme providers do is once you have started a job they will contact you time and time again by phone and email to ask you how the job is going.They also contact the employer as well.This is so they get paid for you being in a job.I have heard a few story's where a work programme adviser has actually turned up at one of their clients homes demanding to know where they were working as the client signed off and didn't tell his work programme provider where they were working.

 

[Red]

Yeah, they're really gung ho about that. I know for a fact you're not legally obliged to inform them of who your employer is, so if I get a job I'll not be telling them anything.

 

[slaphead]

That little mascot c*** on the Champions League ad breaks. His fucking haircut makes me angry.

 

[SALTIRE]

That little mascot c*** on the Champions League ad breaks. His fucking haircut makes me angry.

Was going to post about this very thing tonight - aren't they the cheesiest most bilious ads around! The way he constantly looks in awe as if its the greatest thing in the world seeing some cnut player and holding their hand for a minute - bunch of UEFA propaganda pish!

Also while I'm on it, that fucking Soviet Gazprom ad during the CL too, showing Russian music throughout, styled in a way that Stalin would have been proud of and telling us that they basically power the whole of Europe! Arseholes!

 

[Veggie Legs]

I love the Gazprom advert. It reminds me of Christmas.

 

[JaseTheVillain]

Never thought I could hate a word, but I'm honestly sick of the overuse of fucking 'banter', used in certain situations, fine, but it's just completely overused now, some of these chavvy twats wondering around seem to say it every other word. Does me bloody head in.

 

[Red]

I don't just take all my diabetic medication and end it. It's getting to the point where I can't really cope. I've had no money since around April 23 ish or there abouts. I borrowed £5 off my mum and that's gone after I got some basic food from Aldi. Last night I had a bag of Walkers crisps that were four months out of date. Living the dream.

Too long didn't read: Job centre wankers. Scum, sub-human scum.

This report in the Guardian reflects what you're going through
http://www.theguardian.com/society/...e-adviser-box-ticking-sanctioning-sick-people

 

[Cheese & Biscuits]

The speed of this place today. Jesus, slower than Darren Currie running through treacle.

 

[Cheese & Biscuits]

The increased usage of the 'C' word on this forum.

I'm not a prude or against foul language but I draw the line at that. Kids read this forum and over the last two weeks or so I've seen more and more posts using it. It's not big, it's not clever and no civil person should use it in public.

Anyway, rant over, I just hope I see less of the word "Conservative" going forward.

 

[IanH]

Also, I find people using the C-Word on this forum just makes them sound like Pagnell did in that old place, when he was flaunting his admin status. And nobody wants to sound like that.

edit: didn't finish Cheese & Biscuits post (so missed the punchline) before posting. Made a right c*** of myself here.

 

[Cardsfan]

Also, I find people using the C-Word on this forum just makes them sound like Pagnell did in that old place, when he was flaunting his admin status. And nobody wants to sound like that.

edit: didn't finish Cheese & Biscuits post (so missed the punchline) before posting. Made a right c*** of myself here.

Whoosh

 

[silkyman]

Never thought I could hate a word, but I'm honestly sick of the overuse of fucking 'banter', used in certain situations, fine, but it's just completely overused now, some of these chavvy twats wondering around seem to say it every other word. Does me bloody head in.

Especially as 'banter' apparently means 'mindless abuse' to some people.