Three Up, Three Down?

[Richard Cranium]

Well now with Mansfield, York, Luton, Cambridge, Newport, Oxford, Stevenage, Burton, Exeter and Wimbledon all of the top of my head who have played in the Conference in the last 9/10 years. With the amount of full time clubs down there now alot of the time discussion is always on there being another Promotion spot. IMO that is the hardest league to get out of in this Country, alot say the Championship but West Brom went down 2/3 times and went straight back up. Think it's only Carlisle who went down from this league to the Conference and came straight back and that was 10 years or so ago!

Obviously a few of us are in a Relegation battle at the minute so it may change our opinion on it but every Mansfield fan said they'd be in favour of 3 up 3 down. What's everyone's opinions on this now?

 

[Cardsfan]

Definitely think it should be 3 up 3 down. L1-L2 is 4 up/down so I don't see why not. It's a fucking impossible league to get out of (probably why we never have

 

[Paddy]

May as well have 3 up & 3 down while rebranding the Conference to L3, kick out the part time teams & create a new national non league division below it.

But then I suppose the inevitable issue is when the copious ex-league teams get stuck in that new league then you'd all want another promotion/relegation spot from that...

 

[DarkSithLord]

Absolutely. Although I wouldnt agree with kicking out the part time times. Visiting teams such as us (Alfreton) is part of the charm of the conference.

 

[shoddycollins]

Well now with Mansfield, York, Luton, Cambridge, Newport, Oxford, Stevenage, Burton, Exeter and Wimbledon all of the top of my head who have played in the Conference in the last 9/10 years. With the amount of full time clubs down there now alot of the time discussion is always on there being another Promotion spot. IMO that is the hardest league to get out of in this Country, alot say the Championship but West Brom went down 2/3 times and went straight back up. Think it's only Carlisle who went down from this league to the Conference and came straight back and that was 10 years or so ago!

Obviously a few of us are in a Relegation battle at the minute so it may change our opinion on it but every Mansfield fan said they'd be in favour of 3 up 3 down. What's everyone's opinions on this now?

The season before we went down and came straight back, Shrewsbury did the same, a club Bristol Rovers hope to join... interestingly both us and Shrewsbury came back via the playoffs in only the second and third seasons the playoffs were in existence and it looks like if Bristol Rovers are to bounce back they will require the playoffs too.

I would hate to say I think this is a good idea and then we finish third from bottom, but it certainly has some logic behind it, the Conference is competitive and is it a fully professional league now or are there still a few semi-pro teams in it? You'd think it would benefit the Conference as a whole and any club who do go down third from bottom would benefit from the extra promotion place the following year. It might still be a big drop financially for clubs who go down unless it leads to increased interest in the Conference and more TV money heading to them.

 

[Paddy]

Absolutely. Although I wouldnt agree with kicking out the part time times. Visiting teams such as us (Alfreton) is part of the charm of the conference.

It's ok... you can still be the charm of the new league

 

[r1ch1e]

Nope, should be a tough ask to reach the FL for me. It should be held in high esteem and not just treated like any other promotion

 

[BelizeHatter]

100% should be three up three down. It is very very easy to get stuck down there as a big/ish club and it gets tougher and tougher the longer you miss out - traveling midweek to somewhere you initially have to google to know where it is is not a motivator, but a Bristol Rovers Luton etc visiting is a massive motivation for everyone from supporters up at the smaller clubs. I think the 3u3d would invigorate the lower reaches of this League and be especially deserving to the small middle to upper Conf teams at their peak in history, who could creep into he League and deserve the opportunity having battled the big boys with huge comparative budgets Talking Woking AFC Halifax Braintree Gateshead etc

 

[AdamStag]

I think it should be 3 up 3 down certainly

 

[vanner]

Definitely should be 3 up 3 down.

 

[LadyWomble]

May as well have 3 up & 3 down while rebranding the Conference to L3, kick out the part time teams & create a new national non league division below it.

But then I suppose the inevitable issue is when the copious ex-league teams get stuck in that new league then you'd all want another promotion/relegation spot from that...

Good points, very well made ;-)
The last time there was a vote on this (2-3 years ago), we voted yes to 3 up, 3 down - despite being in/near the brown stuff ourselves - but were in the minority. Can't remember if it's just a simple majority needed or more but it will be very difficult.

 

[DarkSithLord]

Good points, very well made ;-)
The last time there was a vote on this (2-3 years ago), we voted yes to 3 up, 3 down - despite being in/near the brown stuff ourselves - but were in the minority. Can't remember if it's just a simple majority needed or more but it will be very difficult.

Welcome to the Forum

 

[BCFC Jordan]

No thanks.

Rovers already got enough luck the year they finished 2nd bottom of L2 and stayed up.

 

[Judge Dredd]

100% it should be three up three down.

 

[Vanni]

3 up 3 down for me. I have been saying it for a long time now, the fact that we were only promoted last year hasn't made me change my mind. I hope United do the right thing if it comes to a vote. 1st and 2nd in the conf should get automatic promotion, with 3rd-6th in the play-offs.

 

[ForeverUnited]

I've always felt that it should be 3up3down, and have done for years, even the seasons when we struggled at the bottom, still felt the same.

 

[Silver Stone]

It'll never happen though, it'd be like turkeys voting for Christmas.

 

[Judge Dredd]

It'll never happen though, it'd be like turkeys voting for Christmas.

Probably. Although I would like to think that there might be a bit more support for it now as a lot of this league is currently made up of teams who have spent large chunks of time down there and can see it from that perspective. I know our board for one have repeatedly said in the past they would still actively campaign for 3 up 3 down when we eventually got back into the League. Given how long it took them to get back up I would think the Stevenages, Cambridges, Oxfords, Mansfields etc etc would have a similar outlook.

For teams who are perennial strugglers in this division it might also be wise to take the long view on such a vote. Sure, it might increase your chances of going down sooner or later, but it also increases your chances of coming back up much, much faster than has historically proven to be the case bar one or two exceptions. We'd have come straight back up at the first ask if it had been 3 up 3 down...

 

[Son of Cod]

If you're shit enough or ran badly enough to end up getting relegated from League Two then you have to deal the consequences. One of them being that The Conference is a difficult league to get out of. This is part of your punishment. I've always maintained this opinion since we got relegated and I didn't really care about it before we came down, so it would be hypocritical of me to change my tune now.

 

[argyle_dude]

I think it should remain as 2 up 2 down. As someone posted earlier, the Football League is suppose to mean something. It should be hard to gain your place in it.

 

[DarkSithLord]

I think it should remain as 2 up 2 down. As someone posted earlier, the Football League is suppose to mean something. It should be hard to gain your place in it.

Welcome

 

[les.gtfc]

Only 4 teams have ever bounced back at the first attempt. Lincoln City did it in the first season automatic promotion/relegation was introduced and Darlington did it 2 seasons later. Back them though The Conference was almost entirely made up of part-time teams with hardly any ex-League clubs. Shrewsbury did it via the play-offs in 2003/04 (They actually finished 3rd in the table, 17 points behind 2nd placed Hereford). Chester won the league that season. The last team to do it were Carlisle United in 2004/05, again via the play-offs, but they only finished one point behind the 2nd placed team Hereford (again). Barnet won the league that season.

What I find incredible is that you can finish 2nd in The Conference but not get promoted, whereas you could finish 7th in League 2, just scraping into the play-offs and go up.

With the amount of ex-league teams in The Conference now I think it's only a matter of time before this gets voted in but I can't see it getting much support from the teams in the bottom half of League 2, that would be like turkeys voting for Christmas.

 

[1884 Belmont]

I'd be all for 3 up 3 down (with Tranmere currently 3rd bottom!) as I agree that it is wrong that the runners-up could end up staying down whilst 5th place could go up. However, if you do make it 3 up 3 down, then the same should apply to L2/L1. If you are going to keep the 4 up 4 down at the top end of L2, then it won't be fair. Top 2 up, 3-6th playoff in all divisions for me.

 

[Luke Imp]

Not entirely sure. I don't think the Conference is strong enough for 3 promotion places.

As I said over on TFF, the amount of promotion and relegation places should be the same in every division for a start.

 

[Judge Dredd]

I'd be all for 3 up 3 down (with Tranmere currently 3rd bottom!) as I agree that it is wrong that the runners-up could end up staying down whilst 5th place could go up. However, if you do make it 3 up 3 down, then the same should apply to L2/L1. If you are going to keep the 4 up 4 down at the top end of L2, then it won't be fair. Top 2 up, 3-6th playoff in all divisions for me.

I've always wondered (never enough to google though obviously) why League Two has the extra promotion space. It is a ridiculously easy league to get out of, you can have a bang average season and still go up.

 

[Town end]

I think division 3 north and south had two promotion places each so when the league was reorganised into divisions 3 and 4 the same amount of promotion places was kept

 

[That Fat Centre Half]

I think it should remain as 2 up 2 down. As someone posted earlier, the Football League is suppose to mean something. It should be hard to gain your place in it.

On the flip side, if it's such a privilege to be in the league, shouldn't it be a lot easier to get relegated out of the league if you have a poor year? I mean you have to be a pretty shocking team to finish 3rd bottom in this division yet you get away with staying up largely undeservingly so.

Basically if it's such a privilege why do we let shit teams hang about?

In my opinion league status would mean a heck of a lot more if it was easier to lose it than it currently is.

 

[les.gtfc]

On the flip side, if it's such a privilege to be in the league, shouldn't it be a lot easier to get relegated out of the league if you have a poor year? I mean you have to be a pretty shocking team to finish 3rd bottom in this division yet you get away with staying up largely undeservingly so.

Basically if it's such a privilege why do we let shit teams hang about?

In my opinion league status would mean a heck of a lot more if it was easier to lose it than it currently is.

True. To be honest, we should have been relegated the season before we actually were. We only survived the previous season due to your 30 point deduction and seeing that both Rotherham and Bournemouth who both started off on -17 finished comfortably above us, we certainly deserved to go down that year.

 

[AdamStag]

Or maybe you could do what they do in Scotland, so 1st and 2nd would go up automatically, and then 3-5th joins the side finishing 22nd in league 2 in the playoffs.

There certainly should be some greater flexibility than there is now between the leagues.

 

[Cardsfan]

Or maybe you could do what they do in Scotland, so 1st and 2nd would go up automatically, and then 3-5th joins the side finishing 22nd in league 2 in the playoffs.

There certainly should be some greater flexibility than there is now between the leagues.

I think that would work well. It basically says to the team in 22nd if you're good enough for the league you'll stay in it. The playoffs work differently up there though:

5th v 4th
Winner(5th v 4th) v 3rd
Winner v 22nd from League Above

I think that would be a good idea tbh, puts more emphasis on league position as well