Welcome back Leyton Orient

[TrinidadsNumberOne]

Wonder why?

I'm not just saying this because we won the conference but I have watched a lot of it on BT Sport and the standard seems a lot lower to when Mansfield, Luton, Newport, Crawley, Fleetwood etc got promoted.

I feel it's a mix of some of the ex FL clubs being absolute basket cases in recent years (i.e York, Torquay, Stockport) and the fact that the so-called tinpot moneybags clubs are now in poor catchment areas with the obvious exception of Salford. Fylde won't work because of PNE, a resurgent Blackpool and Fleetwood. Whereas Fleetwood worked due to the Oystons alienating Blackpool fans (and the fact it's a sizable town compared to Kirkham) and Crawley worked because it's a big enough town by itself, even if the locals these days couldn't give a shite about the team. All these London area moneybags clubs with no FL experience are wasting their time trying to get to the league because there's just too much competition to support upstarts from the established London clubs in the first place.

If you're just poorly run but snap out of it quickly like Rovers, Cheltenham, Tranmere, Orient and potentially Chesterfield next year. You'll be back up in no time. Winning football means bigger gates which means bigger income to offset the loss of FL payments. Something that moneybags teams with no league experience will find very difficult to achieve if they want to increase their revenue through bigger gates.

 

[Master D]

Wonder why?

I'm not just saying this because we won the conference but I have watched a lot of it on BT Sport and the standard seems a lot lower to when Mansfield, Luton, Newport, Crawley, Fleetwood etc got promoted.

The standard was another level back then, unfortunately it also coincided with when we had our best Conference sides and we still didn't do it. Speaking from years of experience, Crawley 2010-11 are the best team I've ever seen at the level and the standard is way below that now.

Good players (and managers) also move on much quicker than they used to IMO. You wouldn't have someone with the potential of Andre Gray or Vardy in the league for long these days.

 

[Master D]

They average seasons in the NL for a relegated side must be at its lowest for quite a few years.

Payments for getting relegated from L2 help you bounce back quickly if the club is run properly. We received them when we were run by crooks so they disappeared into a black hole. I don't think we'll be back until we get an investor, it can't be done just off gate receipts IMO.

 

[RLC]

Slightly off topic, but Stockport are all but back in the Conference.
They lost the probable title decider at Chorley on Good Friday.

However......

Yesterday Chorley missed an 85th minute pen and then lost in the 91st minute at Spennymoor to let Stockport back in .

Stockport go to Nuneaton who are 15 points adrift at the bottom so surely a shoe in !!!!
They are a point clear.

I will be delighted if Stockport eventually make it back to the league. It looked like they were lost forever a couple of years ago; set to become another Workington or BPA. They are probably the most similar club to us in the country, in terms of fanbase and history.

 

[Pablosammy]

One disturbance in the natural order force has been corrected. Hopefully a proper club will follow them up in the playoffs.

 

[Hurrikeen]

Hopefully Wrexham & Fylde will join the O’s.

 

[Pablosammy]

Hopefully Wrexham & Fylde will join the O’s.

Unless they merge, that's not going to happen this season.

 

[RLC]

Orient and Solihull to be promoted, with Wrexham as a backstop option.

 

[Fedora Dale]

Nobody want Harrogate then?

 

[Chris FGR]

Unless they merge, that's not going to happen this season.

AFC Wrexham & Fylde United. Got a ring to it.

Probably the only chance Wrexham have got of ever getting back in the league.

 

[Pablosammy]

AFC Wrexham & Fylde United. Got a ring to it.

Probably the only chance Wrexham have got of ever getting back in the league.

I'm beginning to think they like it down there!

 

[Conker]

The standard was another level back then, unfortunately it also coincided with when we had our best Conference sides and we still didn't do it. Speaking from years of experience, Crawley 2010-11 are the best team I've ever seen at the level and the standard is way below that now.

Good players (and managers) also move on much quicker than they used to IMO. You wouldn't have someone with the potential of Andre Gray or Vardy in the league for long these days.

Best two teams were Crawley and Fleetwood for me, but Crawley were less reliant on one player like Fleetwood (Vardy) so I agree.

I think Wrexham can do it on a self-sustainable budget, but admittedly it’s incredibly, ridiculously hard although at least 7th gives you a shot at promotion now - used to be top five or no chance!

Be interesting to find out the budget situation down there now, we managed to win the league with the second biggest but we literally signed about 40 players so nobody else could have them

 

[Conker]

I feel it's a mix of some of the ex FL clubs being absolute basket cases in recent years (i.e York, Torquay, Stockport) and the fact that the so-called tinpot moneybags clubs are now in poor catchment areas with the obvious exception of Salford. Fylde won't work because of PNE, a resurgent Blackpool and Fleetwood. Whereas Fleetwood worked due to the Oystons alienating Blackpool fans (and the fact it's a sizable town compared to Kirkham) and Crawley worked because it's a big enough town by itself, even if the locals these days couldn't give a shite about the team. All these London area moneybags clubs with no FL experience are wasting their time trying to get to the league because there's just too much competition to support upstarts from the established London clubs in the first place.

If you're just poorly run but snap out of it quickly like Rovers, Cheltenham, Tranmere, Orient and potentially Chesterfield next year. You'll be back up in no time. Winning football means bigger gates which means bigger income to offset the loss of FL payments. Something that moneybags teams with no league experience will find very difficult to achieve if they want to increase their revenue through bigger gates.

Fleetwood and Crawley worked because of a huge gigantic budget, not due to Blackpool or town size - they are both poorly supported in numbers to this day for even a lot of the conference.

It boils down to the fact that even if you have loads of cash it still needs to be done a certain way and those two executed it perfectly, Flyde, Salford etc can and probably do the exact same if they stick at it unfortunately.

 

[TrinidadsNumberOne]

Fleetwood and Crawley worked because of a huge gigantic budget, not due to Blackpool or anything like that.

It boils down to the fact that even if you have loads of cash it still needs to be done a certain way and those two executed it perfectly.

The point I was making was Fleetwood wouldn't have done it with crowds of one man and his dog that they were getting in tiers 9 and 10 and they exploited the Blackpool situation to gain themselves a core support of 2000-2500. Had gates stayed at the paltry figures before the money came in, you'd have another Boreham Wood situation where throwing money at the team just simply isn't viable. Hence Wood lost their best players for a pittance in the Summer despite being able to offer wages similar to FL level.

Obviously Crawley having some standing in non league beforehand helped them when the money came in. But Crawley seemed to have FL standard players from Kuipers in goal to Tubbs up front and the likes of Pablo Mills, Sergio Torres and Dannie Bulman gave them that spine. I think sides like Salford and Fylde have focused more on signing strikers for firepower than building an all-round "complete" team. Although I expect Salford to invest heavily in the defence and midfield next season should they fail to go up.

 

[Conker]

The point I was making was Fleetwood wouldn't have done it with crowds of one man and his dog that they were getting in tiers 9 and 10 and they exploited the Blackpool situation to gain themselves a core support of 2000-2500. Had gates stayed at the paltry figures before the money came in, you'd have another Boreham Wood situation where throwing money at the team just simply isn't viable. Hence Wood lost their best players for a pittance in the Summer despite being able to offer wages similar to FL level.

Obviously Crawley having some standing in non league beforehand helped them when the money came in. But Crawley seemed to have FL standard players from Kuipers in goal to Tubbs up front and the likes of Pablo Mills, Sergio Torres and Dannie Bulman gave them that spine. I think sides like Salford and Fylde have focused more on signing strikers for firepower than building an all-round "complete" team. Although I expect Salford to invest heavily in the defence and midfield next season should they fail to go up.

Honestly it’s only a matter of time before we get a club in the EFL with Boreham Wood crowds unfortunately, it’s just depends how willing the funder is.

 

[Master D]

Best two teams were Crawley and Fleetwood for me, but Crawley were less reliant on one player like Fleetwood (Vardy) so I agree.

I think Wrexham can do it on a self-sustainable budget, but admittedly it’s incredibly, ridiculously hard although at least 7th gives you a shot at promotion now - used to be top five or no chance!

Be interesting to find out the budget situation down there now, we managed to win the league with the second biggest but we literally signed about 40 players so nobody else could have them

Only Wimbledon have done it in a similar fashion that I can remember. Crawley did have 40 goal Tubbs who was the best striker around but they had a really solid side all over, assembled properly apart from the joke transfer of Brodie. I remember that your lot signed a load of players who after about 5 games were binned off by Cox! I'm sure you were near the bottom after about 10 games.

Our budget is about £1m.

 

[Conker]

Only Wimbledon have done it in a similar fashion that I can remember. Crawley did have 40 goal Tubbs who was the best striker around but they had a really solid side all over, assembled properly apart from the joke transfer of Brodie. I remember that your lot signed a load of players who after about 5 games were binned off by Cox! I'm sure you were near the bottom after about 10 games.

Our budget is about £1m.

I was expecting Wrexham to have a bigger budget than that even in the conference, are other revenues limited? For comparison, Notts County are probably over the £3m mark!

Well if you remember during the Paul Cox reign, we were crap the first season until after Christmas where we only lost once against Wrexham but ultimately lost in the play-offs to York and then in the second season we were crap until Christmas but this time we managed to seal the title last game via a 1-0 win against Wrexham!

Kidderminster nearly pipped us to the title, poor bastards.

 

[RLC]

I think our budget was about £1.2 - £1.3 million last season, so Wrexham should really be able to win promotion with those resources.

From the outside, Wrexham's problem seems to be the amateurishness of their board. They have had several managers capable of taking them up in the last few years, but never manage to hold on to them for more than five minutes.

 

[Master D]

I don't think finding rookie managers who then get taken by clubs 2 divisions higher can count as amateurish. They both wanted to go, literally nothing we could do.

 

[RLC]

I don't think finding rookie managers who then get taken by clubs 2 divisions higher can count as amateurish. They both wanted to go, literally nothing we could do.

Fair enough.

 

[Hurrikeen]

Unless they merge, that's not going to happen this season.

Good point - apologies for the retarded moment.

 

[Mark kavanagh]

Honestly it’s only a matter of time before we get a club in the EFL with Boreham Wood crowds unfortunately, it’s just depends how willing the funder is.

Boreham woods messages to arsenal and spurs supporters to come and bolster their numbers at Wembley last season was just embarrassing

 

[Luke Imp]

Wonder why?

I'm not just saying this because we won the conference but I have watched a lot of it on BT Sport and the standard seems a lot lower to when Mansfield, Luton, Newport, Crawley, Fleetwood etc got promoted.

There was a bottle neck down there at the time as well, which has since disappeared. I can't 100% remember who was down there at the same time, though.

Payments for getting relegated from L2 help you bounce back quickly if the club is run properly. We received them when we were run by crooks so they disappeared into a black hole. I don't think we'll be back until we get an investor, it can't be done just off gate receipts IMO.

I think also, the bigger Club's usually need that money to cover other wages so I'm not sure it's *that* much of an advantage. The financial gulf between the two leagues is such that it's impossible to trim the wage budget of a relegated side as much as is required as quickly as possible.

I was expecting Wrexham to have a bigger budget than that even in the conference, are other revenues limited? For comparison, Notts County are probably over the £3m mark!

Well if you remember during the Paul Cox reign, we were crap the first season until after Christmas where we only lost once against Wrexham but ultimately lost in the play-offs to York and then in the second season we were crap until Christmas but this time we managed to seal the title last game via a 1-0 win against Wrexham!

Kidderminster nearly pipped us to the title, poor bastards.

That was crazy. Didn't you sign Pilkington from Luton and then not play him? I think it was you and AdamStag who were guessing you probably had £10k/week in wages sat in the stands most weeks.

 

[northstandexile]

Stags conference winning budget was £1.4m

Cox and George Pilkington had a bust up at half time in second game of season at Gateshead which finished in a heavy defeat with two men sent off.

He hardly played again.

 

[Conker]

There was a bottle neck down there at the time as well, which has since disappeared. I can't 100% remember who was down there at the same time, though.


I think also, the bigger Club's usually need that money to cover other wages so I'm not sure it's *that* much of an advantage. The financial gulf between the two leagues is such that it's impossible to trim the wage budget of a relegated side as much as is required as quickly as possible.


That was crazy. Didn't you sign Pilkington from Luton and then not play him? I think it was you and AdamStag who were guessing you probably had £10k/week in wages sat in the stands most weeks.

Yeah - although Pilkington and Cox had a fall out, we actually gave him a longer contract and took him for Luton so everybody assumed we had a bigger budget but the accounts proved that to be rubbish eventually.

But yeah we had a long list of players that pretty much anybody in the division would take stuck in the stand all season.

 

[Conker]

Stags conference winning budget was £1.4m

Cox and George Pilkington had a bust up at half time in second game of season at Gateshead which finished in a heavy defeat with two men sent off.

He hardly played again.

Where have you got that figure from?

Memory is vague but I’m sure it was closer to £2m than £1m.

 

[northstandexile]

Where have you got that figure from?

Memory is vague but I’m sure it was closer to £2m than £1m.

From your post on Stagsnet in 2013

Conker
Post subject: Re: Direites playing it dangerousPostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 4:36 pm
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Manager
Manager

Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2009 3:17 pm
Posts: 2411
I think our budget last season was around the 1.4m mark so I imagine we do indeed have a bigger one, top seven definitely.

Palmer fee will not be small

 

[Conker]

From your post on Stagsnet in 2013

Conker
Post subject: Re: Direites playing it dangerousPostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 4:36 pm
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Manager
Manager

Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2009 3:17 pm
Posts: 2411
I think our budget last season was around the 1.4m mark so I imagine we do indeed have a bigger one, top seven definitely.

Palmer fee will not be small

Well that seems low to me now! I’ve had a quick look too and I’ve seen bigger mentioned, apparently it was quoted around £1.8m from Paul Cox (up from 1.6m after January) that’s probably pre-tax like most quoted budgets.

 

[Luke Imp]

You had some big hitters in the squad for the level - Green, Pilkington, Beevers, Marriott, Meikle(?), Briscoe, Sutton, Dempster, Speight etc.

 

[northstandexile]

The 1.4m figure originally came from ‘tippy tappy’ on Stagsnet who was the supporters director on the board and also said that it was same for the first season back in the league.

The following season when One Call had all their troubles the budget was cut to £800k and that is the reason Cox moved on and Murray’s second half season team finished fourth from bottom.

Employers national insurance contributions are sometimes not quoted in figures so another 10% on top is possible.