Welcome Derby County to League 1

[Super_horns]

So there aren't any restrictions on Derby then?

Hourihane and Barkhuizen will definitely be mid-range Championship wages. Derby will have the crowds to cover them but it seems a bit mad that there are no repercussions for this summer's madness.

I'd laugh if they went up at the first attempt.

Does seem like you’ve been taken so just get on with life as normal.

 

[kieran_vale]

Bent c***

Aye, it’s a bad look and as have said I’ve wanted Derby to survive for their community etc. Income wise they blow us out the water so it’s not really us who will feel cheated in this but some of the others who will likely be at the top will have the right to feel aggrieved I think.

The next one coming round the corner will be Birmingham doing the same and no doubt more afterwards. Some of its created by things like trying to keep pace with those clubs propped up by parachute payments but even so it’s not right to just go on business as usual after all this.

 

[Greenacres]

I'm just looking forward to welcoming Derby back to TNL but this time for a league game rather than one in the FA Cup Third Round...that was, for us, a real glamour fixture, we were mid-table in the Conference and they were struggling in the Championship...an amazing game that we lost 4-3 after being two up after about 20 minutes, the attendance remains the record for a home Rovers fixture. Oddly they likely return as a club with a degree of uncertainty hanging over them, hopefully we can tilt the scoreline in our favour this time round.

 

[91SPP]

So there aren't any restrictions on Derby then?

Hourihane and Barkhuizen will definitely be mid-range Championship wages. Derby will have the crowds to cover them but it seems a bit mad that there are no repercussions for this summer's madness.

I'd laugh if they went up at the first attempt.

What repercussions would you like though?

The former owner, Mel Morris, was the one who ran the debt up. We have been deducted -21 points and eventually relegated. We have lost dozens of youth players for next to nothing because we were unable to offer them contracts. Buchanan was able to find a loop hole in his contract and leave to Germany for nothing. We was left an absolute shell of a club due to one man's actions. He will gain no benefit at all from Derby doing well in the future.

A buyer has had to come in and work on a deal to essentially pay for his debts and take over the club. The reality of further repercussions is that people simply wouldn't come to the table and a club would die. Creditors would get zero rather than 25 or 35% of what they're owed depending on terms.

If Mel Morris was still the owner then absolutely, but you have to separate the club from the man - especially when the man isn't even involved in the club anymore. We are still under wage restrictions. We can't pay fees for players. Of course, we're going to be aggressive in the very narrow market we can work in and actually gain quality. We barely have a squad - the average age before the signings was probably around 19. The oldest player on the books was 24, a few 22/21/20 year olds and then a bunch of academy players in their teenage years.

Derby's revenue is obviously going to be huge this season - 40 minutes into season ticket sales and already 21,500 have been allocated (including renewals outstanding). Not many Football League clubs in general have that sort of following, which also ties in to sponsorship deals, etc. the only difference will be the TV money, but Derby's revenue will still be higher than a few in the Championship even without that £7m head start.

 

[SF_]

What repercussions would you like though?

The former owner, Mel Morris, was the one who ran the debt up. We have been deducted -21 points and eventually relegated. We have lost dozens of youth players for next to nothing because we were unable to offer them contracts. Buchanan was able to find a loop hole in his contract and leave to Germany for nothing. We was left an absolute shell of a club due to one man's actions. He will gain no benefit at all from Derby doing well in the future.

A buyer has had to come in and work on a deal to essentially pay for his debts and take over the club. The reality of further repercussions is that people simply wouldn't come to the table and a club would die. Creditors would get zero rather than 25 or 35% of what they're owed depending on terms.

If Mel Morris was still the owner then absolutely, but you have to separate the club from the man - especially when the man isn't even involved in the club anymore. We are still under wage restrictions. We can't pay fees for players. Of course, we're going to be aggressive in the very narrow market we can work in and actually gain quality. We barely have a squad - the average age before the signings was probably around 19. The oldest player on the books was 24, a few 22/21/20 year olds and then a bunch of academy players in their teenage years.

Derby's revenue is obviously going to be huge this season - 40 minutes into season ticket sales and already 21,500 have been allocated (including renewals outstanding). Not many Football League clubs in general have that sort of following, which also ties in to sponsorship deals, etc. the only difference will be the TV money, but Derby's revenue will still be higher than a few in the Championship even without that £7m head start.

I wouldn't like anything, what happens in this league means nothing to me, but it sounds like clubs like Bolton had restrictions imposed?

 

[Luke Imp]

Maybe, but there's an offset - most games in League One are on a Saturday. The likes of Wednesday, Burton, Lincoln will sell out the 2.7k allocation - Oxford too.

I couldn't tell you how many home games we had on a saturday last season, but a lot of night games against the likes of Reading where they bought less than 500.

Not on a Tuesday night we won't!

 

[91SPP]

I wouldn't like anything, what happens in this league means nothing to me, but it sounds like clubs like Bolton had restrictions imposed?

We also have restrictions imposed, hence why we can’t pay a fee for anyone, agent fees or loan fees. All wages have to be under a cap agreed with the EFL.

 

[91SPP]

Not on a Tuesday night we won't!

Apologies - I thought you would as it’s only an hour down the road.

 

[SVH]

Fantastic start to the window for Derby. Still won't finish above Port Vale though.

 

[Luke Imp]

Apologies - I thought you would as it’s only an hour down the road.

Wish it was, I did Lincoln to Derby in 2008(?) for our League Cup game and it took me nearly double that!

 

[Tea Towel]

We also have restrictions imposed, hence why we can’t pay a fee for anyone, agent fees or loan fees. All wages have to be under a cap agreed with the EFL.

Do you know what the cap is?

I’m sure I read that Readings is around 5k. If that’s true I can’t imagine the EFL have been more generous to yourselves than they have to Reading which is why I can’t quite get my head around how you’ve managed some of these signings.

 

[eric read]

What repercussions would you like though?

The former owner, Mel Morris, was the one who ran the debt up. We have been deducted -21 points and eventually relegated. We have lost dozens of youth players for next to nothing because we were unable to offer them contracts. Buchanan was able to find a loop hole in his contract and leave to Germany for nothing. We was left an absolute shell of a club due to one man's actions. He will gain no benefit at all from Derby doing well in the future.

A buyer has had to come in and work on a deal to essentially pay for his debts and take over the club. The reality of further repercussions is that people simply wouldn't come to the table and a club would die. Creditors would get zero rather than 25 or 35% of what they're owed depending on terms.

If Mel Morris was still the owner then absolutely, but you have to separate the club from the man - especially when the man isn't even involved in the club anymore. We are still under wage restrictions. We can't pay fees for players. Of course, we're going to be aggressive in the very narrow market we can work in and actually gain quality. We barely have a squad - the average age before the signings was probably around 19. The oldest player on the books was 24, a few 22/21/20 year olds and then a bunch of academy players in their teenage years.

Derby's revenue is obviously going to be huge this season - 40 minutes into season ticket sales and already 21,500 have been allocated (including renewals outstanding). Not many Football League clubs in general have that sort of following, which also ties in to sponsorship deals, etc. the only difference will be the TV money, but Derby's revenue will still be higher than a few in the Championship even without that £7m head start.

I'd like the kind of repercussions that would mean Derby couldn't come down here and take one of the promotion places that some of us have spent a few years building toward, by making ludicrous signings for this league.

Always wanted them to survive, but this is a piss take. Hope we smash you in the first game of the season.

 

[YEO YEO YEO]

Wish it was, I did Lincoln to Derby in 2008(?) for our League Cup game and it took me nearly double that!

On a good run, can probably do in an hour and 15 ish, depending where people are driving from, however getting out of Lincoln in rush hour and around Nott'm too will be fun.

I've not done Pride Park before so one ground i've earmarked to do. Gone past it enough times on the train!

 

[leedsvaliant]

This tight business plan is going well.

 

[91SPP]

Do you know what the cap is?

I’m sure I read that Readings is around 5k. If that’s true I can’t imagine the EFL have been more generous to yourselves than they have to Reading which is why I can’t quite get my head around how you’ve managed some of these signings.

I would imagine our cap is an overall rather than a contract-to-contract. I could be wrong. Nothing has been published formally other than we are under restrictions with regards to wages, transfer fees and agent fees so I couldn't tell you.

The only thing you can take as fact is that these signings are within our budget and undoubtedly that budget will be a % of our projected revenue this season - as agreed by the EFL and the new owner. We literally can't do anything else as the EFL need to sign off our incomings - which is why I find the hyperbole about us going for broke laughable.

 

[91SPP]

I'd like the kind of repercussions that would mean Derby couldn't come down here and take one of the promotion places that some of us have spent a few years building toward, by making ludicrous signings for this league.

Always wanted them to survive, but this is a piss take. Hope we smash you in the first game of the season.

God speed to you, sir. I wish you well.

The problem is that a club of Derby's size shouldn't be in League One in the first place, you've got Mel Morris to thank for that. It's like when Newcastle went into the Championship - obviously their following and commercial revenue put them at a massive advantage. They signed Kevin Nolan for the Championship when he was a very capable Premier League player.

You can't be angry at clubs for spending within their budget just because they're bigger. It's unfortunately the nature of the game.

 

[kieran_vale]

God speed to you, sir. I wish you well.

The problem is that a club of Derby's size shouldn't be in League One in the first place, you've got Mel Morris to thank for that. It's like when Newcastle went into the Championship - obviously their following and commercial revenue put them at a massive advantage. They signed Kevin Nolan for the Championship when he was a very capable Premier League player.

You can't be angry at clubs for spending within their budget just because they're bigger. It's unfortunately the nature of the game.

I’d argue those two situations are not really comparable. The difference with Newcastle is they hadn’t just come away from the verge of liquidation.

It’s no real odds on us ultimately as we are not in the same market for players or competing for promotion etc but just taking a step back it doesn’t have good optics to put it kindly.

 

[91SPP]

I’d argue those two situations are not really comparable. The difference with Newcastle is they hadn’t just come away from the verge of liquidation.

It’s no real odds on us ultimately as we are not in the same market for players or competing for promotion etc but just taking a step back it doesn’t have good optics to put it kindly.

Agreed, but as I mentioned previously, Mel Morris was the reason for piling up the debt. He’s no longer associated with the club.

Part of our on going punishment is restrictions on all transfers and wages. These signings are within our budget. They absolutely have to be, there is no two ways about it.

We’ve lost over 40 players in the last two seasons, all of which we will have to replace in one form or another.

I don’t understand the concept behind why the new owner, or fans, should be punished for the misdeeds of a man who is no longer at the club? I feel the transfer restrictions that don’t allow us to spend over our revenue is absolutely fair - essentially a fresh start with some housekeeping for a duration.

 

[BarrieOwl]

God speed to you, sir. I wish you well.

The problem is that a club of Derby's size shouldn't be in League One in the first place, you've got Mel Morris to thank for that. It's like when Newcastle went into the Championship - obviously their following and commercial revenue put them at a massive advantage. They signed Kevin Nolan for the Championship when he was a very capable Premier League player.

You can't be angry at clubs for spending within their budget just because they're bigger. It's unfortunately the nature of the game.

A club of Derbys size, why not?

 

[Bobbin']

There’s been plenty before and there will be plenty more.

 

[91SPP]

A club of Derbys size, why not?

Because it creates a disparity in the league. Obviously, it’s not to say that high revenue teams use their income wisely otherwise we wouldn’t be here (including Ipswich and yourselves in that). I know it’s the world we live in but I think everyone would like to see a more level playing field at all levels.

 

[valefan16]

To be fair its not Derby's fault in terms of the restrictions applied its the EFL, if other clubs were in the same boat and were allowed to sign the same players they probably would, should the EFL be tougher on Derby in this situation, probably (look at Bolton for example) but the fact they haven't been is down to them not Derby County.

I imagine it may leave a sour taste in some area's and people/business's of course lost money but the football side is down to the EFL, what is strikingly clear is that football needs to be far better regulated to avoid these situations in the first place.

Wasn't a couple of clubs recently in debts running into 100 Million plus? That's bonkers that it was ever allowed to happen, it needs to change before more fans and importantly communities lose their clubs.

 

[WhiteRussian]

Because it creates a disparity in the league. Obviously, it’s not to say that high revenue teams use their income wisely otherwise we wouldn’t be here (including Ipswich and yourselves in that). I know it’s the world we live in but I think everyone would like to see a more level playing field at all levels.

You can look at every league below the prem and argue about which clubs are too big to be there. Trouble is that most of the big clubs that come down to this level do from financial mismanagement but it's only the little clubs that seem to suffer badly for it. The Burys and the Macclesfields. Luton got the boot out of the EFL if I remember right for some irregularities but the big clubs seem rightly or wrongly to walk away smelling of roses.

However We have Ipswich, Sheff Wed and Bolton pushing the boat out this season and with a bunch of experienced league one clubs just behind them in terms of recruitment it will be interesting to see how it goes for Derby. If you get off to a shit start, will it get toxic at Pride Park?

 

[91SPP]

To be fair its not Derby's fault in terms of the restrictions applied its the EFL, if other clubs were in the same boat and were allowed to sign the same players they probably would, should the EFL be tougher on Derby in this situation, probably (look at Bolton for example) but the fact they haven't been is down to them not Derby County.

I imagine it may leave a sour taste in some area's and people/business's of course lost money but the football side is down to the EFL, what is strikingly clear is that football needs to be far better regulated to avoid these situations in the first place.

Wasn't a couple of clubs recently in debts running into 100 Million plus? That's bonkers that it was ever allowed to happen, it needs to change before more fans and importantly communities lose their clubs.

Agreed - unfortunately whilst owners are allowed to treat football clubs like any other limited business then this will be the case.

Football club owners should’ve different liabilities to let’s say an owner of a company selling plumbing parts. Morris should’ve been forced to eat the debt personally, rather than putting the club in administration and protecting his own personal assets.

 

[91SPP]

You can look at every league below the prem and argue about which clubs are too big to be there. Trouble is that most of the big clubs that come down to this level do from financial mismanagement but it's only the little clubs that seem to suffer badly for it. The Burys and the Macclesfields. Luton got the boot out of the EFL if I remember right for some irregularities but the big clubs seem rightly or wrongly to walk away smelling of roses.

However We have Ipswich, Sheff Wed and Bolton pushing the boat out this season and with a bunch of experienced league one clubs just behind them in terms of recruitment it will be interesting to see how it goes for Derby. If you get off to a shit start, will it get toxic at Pride Park?

We’re just happy to have a club, so I highly doubt it. We understand that we’re working under tough restrictions and trying to mend 2 years of asset stripping and destruction in 30 days. The best two seasons I’ve had following Derby was the year in the Premier League where we got 11 points and last season.

 

[WhiteRussian]

Agreed - unfortunately whilst owners are allowed to treat football clubs like any other limited business then this will be the case.

Football club owners should’ve different liabilities to let’s say an owner of a company selling plumbing parts. Morris should’ve been forced to eat the debt personally, rather than putting the club in administration and protecting his own personal assets.

Agreed, however I doubt many of us would have owners if they were personally liable for all debts. That or we would sink into onlivion paying peanut wages in delapidated stadiums waiting for the developers to send in the buldozers.

 

[eric read]

God speed to you, sir. I wish you well.

The problem is that a club of Derby's size shouldn't be in League One in the first place, you've got Mel Morris to thank for that. It's like when Newcastle went into the Championship - obviously their following and commercial revenue put them at a massive advantage. They signed Kevin Nolan for the Championship when he was a very capable Premier League player.

You can't be angry at clubs for spending within their budget just because they're bigger. It's unfortunately the nature of the game.

That's what Sunderland fans said when they first came down and it didn't win them any friends at all. I wouldn't go around broadcasting those kind of thoughts if I were you, you'll make Derby public enemy No1 very quickly, if you aren't already.

How did the Derby fans feel when Mel Morris was bankrolling you toward the Premier League gravy train? I bet nobody questioned him then, and all were happy to have players that you obviously couldn't afford (with the benefit of hindsight) playing for you.

You don't seem to grasp that you're here for a reason, whether you think that's right or not, and most fair minded fans would expect you to earn your place back in the higher divisions by merit. What you appear to be doing is trying to buy your way out, the very thing that put you here in the first place. If these players on £8k per week are within the EFL set budget then I'd say that budget is wrong. It's wrong financially and it's wrong morally, as if you're now as a club, or financial entity, making that kind of money, you should be paying more of it back to the creditors that have had to accept 25p in the £1.

The other thing you're missing is that by being here and being allowed to flash that kind of money around it skews things for those like my club, who now see promotion that much more unlikely, due to no fault of our own. What we should have been seeing is a relegated club who are here for on the field crapness, instead we've got one that looks like it's learnt nothing and is here for a jolly, at the expense of somebody else's chances, after walking away from the multitude of problems it has left in its wake.

 

[91SPP]

That's what Sunderland fans said when they first came down and it didn't win them any friends at all. I wouldn't go around broadcasting those kind of thoughts if I were you, you'll make Derby public enemy No1 very quickly, if you aren't already.

How did the Derby fans feel when Mel Morris was bankrolling you toward the Premier League gravy train? I bet nobody questioned him then, and all were happy to have players that you obviously couldn't afford (with the benefit of hindsight) playing for you.

You don't seem to grasp that you're here for a reason, whether you think that's right or not, and most fair minded fans would expect you to earn your place back in the higher divisions by merit. What you appear to be doing is trying to buy your way out, the very thing that put you here in the first place. If these players on £8k per week are within the EFL set budget then I'd say that budget is wrong. It's wrong financially and it's wrong morally, as if you're now as a club, or financial entity, making that kind of money, you should be paying more of it back to the creditors that have had to accept 25p in the £1.

The other thing you're missing is that by being here and being allowed to flash that kind of money around it skews things for those like my club, who now see promotion that much more unlikely, due to no fault of our own. What we should have been seeing is a relegated club who are here for on the field crapness, instead we've got one that looks like it's learnt nothing and is here for a jolly, at the expense of somebody else's chances, after walking away from the multitude of problems it has left in its wake.

Mel Morris was extremely cash rich after selling King Games to net £500m - why would you question it?

He didn’t post the accounts for over two years due to an ongoing dispute with the football league regarding amortisation. In that time he is as essentially using the HMRC as a credit facility. The fans had no idea - I mean how on earth could you? With no published accounts then it was all conjecture.

I don’t mean that Derby are too big for League One and don’t belong, what I mean was that it makes it harder for clubs to compete when you have such a disparity in resources. Sunderland has parachute payments on top. Unlike Sunderland though, we have absolutely no dead weight on the books because we barely have anyone on the books. It would be great to keep Bielik around because of his ability but I fully understand if he’s loaned or sold due to his wages. Keeping Knight, Bird and in particular Sibley is most important. None of them are on high wages either.

 

[cookiemonster]

That's what Sunderland fans said when they first came down and it didn't win them any friends at all. I wouldn't go around broadcasting those kind of thoughts if I were you, you'll make Derby public enemy No1 very quickly, if you aren't already.

How did the Derby fans feel when Mel Morris was bankrolling you toward the Premier League gravy train? I bet nobody questioned him then, and all were happy to have players that you obviously couldn't afford (with the benefit of hindsight) playing for you.

You don't seem to grasp that you're here for a reason, whether you think that's right or not, and most fair minded fans would expect you to earn your place back in the higher divisions by merit. What you appear to be doing is trying to buy your way out, the very thing that put you here in the first place. If these players on £8k per week are within the EFL set budget then I'd say that budget is wrong. It's wrong financially and it's wrong morally, as if you're now as a club, or financial entity, making that kind of money, you should be paying more of it back to the creditors that have had to accept 25p in the £1.

The other thing you're missing is that by being here and being allowed to flash that kind of money around it skews things for those like my club, who now see promotion that much more unlikely, due to no fault of our own. What we should have been seeing is a relegated club who are here for on the field crapness, instead we've got one that looks like it's learnt nothing and is here for a jolly, at the expense of somebody else's chances, after walking away from the multitude of problems it has left in its wake.

This is nail on the head for me - pay your debts first before paying big wages. Otherwise any quick promotion back to the Championship is at the creditors' expense (many of whom are local SMEs I am guessing).

 

[Bartonyellow]

It’s the fixture I looked for first. I do hope we do the double over derby - for no other reason than local bragging rights and Barton where I live is full of derby fans ( and villa for that matter ).