World Cup 2018

[Benji]

England are the only team in qualifying that haven't conceded a goal.

 

[blademan89]

England are the only team in qualifying that haven't conceded a goal.

I'd be very surprised if we do actually concede one. Other than slovenia away no ones had a chance really. The jocks might get a consolation like they did at the piggery

 

[St. Juste]

. On another note Anyone having a pop at England fans for singing songs towards a country who killed hundreds and thousands of our own people and singing songs about a terrorist organisation who also killed hundreds of our own people need their fucking heads looking at.

Not at all, to boo a German national anthem, that has nothing to do with either war, is out of order. Modern Germany has transformed itself into a welcoming liberal nation and their football team reflects this. They have not involved themselves in the unjustifiable foreign wars the UK has in the past two decades.

We could learn a lot from them, rather than retreating into a xenophobic little Shell like we are doing currently.

Do Russia boo the German national team? The other home nations most certainly do not, this is something England fans are rightly being called out on. Songs about the IRA are, again, pathetic in the extreme. I'd be horrified to hear any reference to that at a Scotland match.

They have every justification in booing the Scottish national anthem, however, and I hope they do. The opposite is equally the case given the content, and context, of the respective anthems.

But it's hardly a surprise our fans still get such a bad reputation/rap when they go abroad..

Mind you England fans are generally well behaved now compared to a lot of nations!

Really, like who?

Very well behaved on the whole. A bit of drunken stupidity goes on but that's just brits on holiday in general. The media can't wait to jump on any little thing. I mean singing German bombers is not an offensive song at all it's all a bit of fun and who cares if it was anyway I didn't realise we should show them all the respect in the world. I'm sure our grandfather's and great grandfather's would really appreciate that wouldn't they.

There's something unintentionally hilarious about that excuse. But there is no doubt on the whole England fans are perfectly fine travelers, the gentrification of their support having a significant influence on that.

As pointed out above, they are still singing stupid songs and getting into pointless and embarrassing scuffles. To paint them as completely innocent victims when faced with, say, Russia, is just naive.

Singing about German bombers is most clearly offensive, allied bombing killed hundreds of thousands of German civilians. Do you think Americans sing about nuclear bombs when visiting Japan? It's horrendous behaviour.

I'd be very surprised if we do actually concede one. Other than slovenia away no ones had a chance really. The jocks might get a consolation like they did at the piggery

A defence containing Cahill, Stones and Hart keeping that many clean sheets?

That would be embarrassing for ourselves and everyone else in the group. I think Hart will throw one in for charity, at the very least.

 

[blademan89]

Not at all, to boo a German national anthem, that has nothing to do with either war, is out of order. Modern Germany has transformed itself into a welcoming liberal nation and their football team reflects this. They have not involved themselves in the unjustifiable foreign wars the UK has in the past two decades.

We could learn a lot from them, rather than retreating into a xenophobic little Shell like we are doing currently.

Do Russia boo the German national team? The other home nations most certainly do not, this is something England fans are rightly being called out on. Songs about the IRA are, again, pathetic in the extreme. I'd be horrified to hear any reference to that at a Scotland match.

They have every justification in booing the Scottish national anthem, however, and I hope they do. The opposite is equally the case given the content, and context, of the respective anthems.



Really, like who?



There's something unintentionally hilarious about that excuse. But there is no doubt on the whole England fans are perfectly fine travelers, the gentrification of their support having a significant influence on that.

As pointed out above, they are still singing stupid songs and getting into pointless and embarrassing scuffles. To paint them as completely innocent victims when faced with, say, Russia, is just naive.

Singing about German bombers is most clearly offensive, allied bombing killed hundreds of thousands of German civilians. Do you think Americans sing about nuclear bombs when visiting Japan? It's horrendous behaviour.



A defence containing Cahill, Stones and Hart keeping that many clean sheets?

That would be embarrassing for ourselves and everyone else in the group. I think Hart will throw one in for charity, at the very least.

I don't agree with booing the anthem but that's it the songs are fine. Scotland are the biggest fucking disgrace going for booing gstq which is infact your own national anthem isn't it wether you like it or not.

 

[AFCB_Mark]

There are of course two Scottish clubs who reference the IRA in songs whenever they meet and take unpleasant historical references in chants to the extreme.. Hibs have also been known to dabble in some pro-IRA songs come to think of it. Perhaps we shouldn't start down that road.

Really, like who?

Supposedly at Euro 2016 5% of football fans arrested were English. There were fairly widespread reported issues with Ukrainian fans, the angelic German fans, English and Russian as well documented, the French themselves, Albania, and Romanian. And in qualification of course the infamous incidents in Serbia that got the game abandoned. As you say, England's support has become somewhat gentrified (as with all football support in this country I think it's fair to say).

 

[Dirk]

Not at all, to boo a German national anthem, that has nothing to do with either war, is out of order. Modern Germany has transformed itself into a welcoming liberal nation and their football team reflects this. They have not involved themselves in the unjustifiable foreign wars the UK has in the past two decades.

We could learn a lot from them, rather than retreating into a xenophobic little Shell like we are doing currently.

THanks for this. Although I am still in hospital I Just wanted to show my appreciation about it.


Haven' t Seen the Germany vs England Match due to my actual Situation but booing our national anthem iis pathetic .
It may be The Same melody of The Deutschlandlied but the first and second strophes are forbidden due to The misuse and misinterpreting of it through The Nazis.

 

[St. Juste]

I don't agree with booing the anthem but that's it the songs are fine. Scotland are the biggest fucking disgrace going for booing gstq which is infact your own national anthem isn't it wether you like it or not.

But they are clearly not, at all. And if you don't recognise that then you are part of the problem.

Is there any line for you? Would you sing about the holocaust?

To suggest Scotland are more of a disgrace for booing an anthem, relative to celebrating shooting down aircraft during a war 70 years ago, is ridiculous. The context of GTSQ was to save a German king from a Scottish invasion, and included a verse about crushing rebellious Scots. Of course it is going to boo'ed - as well it should be.

Similarly, given the Scottish anthem references crushing an English invasion I have no issue with this being boo'ed - indeed, it should be expected.

There are of course two Scottish clubs who reference the IRA in songs whenever they meet and take unpleasant historical references in chants to the extreme.. Hibs have also been known to dabble in some pro-IRA songs come to think of it. Perhaps we shouldn't start down that road.

Supposedly at Euro 2016 5% of football fans arrested were English. There were fairly widespread reported issues with Ukrainian fans, the angelic German fans, English and Russian as well documented, the French themselves, Albania, and Romanian. And in qualification of course the infamous incidents in Serbia that got the game abandoned. As you say, England's support has become somewhat gentrified (as with all football support in this country I think it's fair to say).

There will never be a situation where I ever defend Rangers or Celtic, they are frequently a disgrace and an anathema the advanced liberal society Scotland actually is. The Sectarianism issue in Scotland is overblown, but it wouldn't exist at all were it not for Rangers and Celtic. Indeed, my whole point was that whilst Sectarianism isn't an issue at all in England they would happily sing about the IRA - at a Scotland match it would be unfathomable.

When was the last time Hibs dabbled in "pro IRA" songs?

It is an issue that should be examined, I'm totally against it whether it happens in England or Scotland. Are you in favour of it being sang at England matches? Your position isn't exactly clear.

Is 5% a figure to be proud of? The most notorious crowd trouble of the tournament, as I recall, involved England and Russia fans. 5% is slightly about average, and for a team that were knocked out very early as well. It certainly agreed to be an insignificant, but deeply embarrassing, minority.

A zero tolerance policy of arrested for any football related incident - banned for life from following the national team would work.

 

[Luke_1884]

A defence containing Cahill, Stones and Hart keeping that many clean sheets?

Against a strike force consisting of Leigh Griffiths and Chris Martin (who I rate highly, in the Championship), probably yeah.

On the topic of the songs, they are cringeworthy but not meant with any sort of anger or aggression towards Germany especially.

I don't really see why now is the time to start nailing England fans for them when they have been sung for decades. Nobody mentions little old Lincoln City who sing about it every game, when 9000 of them at the Emirates on BBC the other week sang it all I heard were compliments thrown their way. There were no precious journo's writing about that.

 

[Renegade]

Against a strike force consisting of Leigh Griffiths and Chris Martin (who I rate highly, in the Championship), probably yeah.

On the topic of the songs, they are cringeworthy but not meant with any sort of anger or aggression towards Germany especially.

I don't really see why now is the time to start nailing England fans for them when they have been sung for decades. Nobody mentions little old Lincoln City who sing about it every game, when 9000 of them at the Emirates on BBC the other week sang it all I heard were compliments thrown their way. There were no precious journo's writing about that.

Maybe it's because Lincoln City weren't playing Germany. Needlessly booing a national anthem and then following it up by singing songs about beating Germany in a war that they now look back on with tremendous shame is pretty pathetic whichever way you dress it up. The whole world has moved on, poking fun at (or English nationalists antagonising) a country for the darkest period in their history isn't just a bit of fun. Lincoln City shouldn't be singing it either tbf.

St. Juste is spot on and anyone who thinks this is the same as Scotland booing GSTQ needs their head examined.

 

[AFCB_Mark]

When was the last time Hibs dabbled in "pro IRA" songs?

I thought it was in the news recently, but a quick google suggests the last reported arrests over sectarian songs at Hibs to have been in 2015, a little further back than I imagined. There also appears to have been a media kerfuffle and allegations of it denied back in 2011.

Are you in favour of it being sang at England matches? Your position isn't exactly clear.

I'd rather get behind whichever 11 mentality fragile darlings happen to be wearing the shirt at the time, it would seem more productive. I hope that the number of references to it in Germany were down to the timing of events, and that it goes away again.

Is 5% a figure to be proud of? The most notorious crowd trouble of the tournament, as I recall, involved England and Russia fans. 5% is slightly about average, and for a team that were knocked out very early as well. It certainly agreed to be an insignificant, but deeply embarrassing, minority.

A zero tolerance policy of arrested for any football related incident - banned for life from following the national team would work.

You asked for examples, I gave some.

My assertion would be that English trouble would appear to be on the significant decrease. Go back 30 years that that percentage would be a lot different. And it would appear that trouble from other nations is either on the increase, or is at least more visible/reported.

English trouble decreasing is good, of course having none at all would be even better. Although I would suggest that zero arrests is an unlikely target to reach when as many people travel, as travel with England. Especially next door to France.However if that arrest number can be lowered further at future tournaments than that'll be good news for us.

Maybe the fixture in June can pass off without any arrests on either side, without any unpleasant conduct by supporters on either side during the game, but I doubt it somehow!

FWIW personally I'd equate the booing of GSTQ, Flower of Scotland, or indeed Deutschlandlied with pantomime villainy, if that upset Dirk then that's a shame.

 

[GodsGift]

I was at Arsenal and I'll hold my hands up, I sang 10 German bombers. I've not done it before and I felt uneasy singing it, but I probably got a bit carried away with the emotion of the day. The RAF have a rich history in Lincolnshire and the 617 Dambusters squadron was based just outside Lincoln - so people are right to be proud of them and to hold them dearly. Still, I'd much rather do the Dambusters (where we hum the song and wave our arms around like juveniles) than sing about shooting down German planes, which doesn't have a whole lot to do with Lincoln.

As for England, I found this article pretty interesting on the matter. The England fans in Germany were idiotic but fairly harmless. Indeed the Germans there seemed pretty nonplussed about it all and just humoured them. Interestingly enough it was the English national press who made an issue out of it (rightly so).

 

[SALTIRE]

I don't agree with booing the anthem but that's it the songs are fine. Scotland are the biggest fucking disgrace going for booing gstq which is infact your own national anthem isn't it wether you like it or not.

The booing of it signifies the stance many of us have with it and the union generally. Also it's a bloody awful anthem anyway, enough to make to make you slit your wrists, unlike the Russkies anthem, Brazil's or La Marseillaise; which are inspirational.

 

[smat]

 

[Luke_1884]

Maybe it's because Lincoln City weren't playing Germany.

Which makes it even worse, surely?
Whilst games against Germany are obviously a trigger for these sort of songs let's not pretend it's the only occasion when we hear them. Whilst I'm not defending them I just don't really see the need to start nailing our fans to the stake when it's a song that's been frequently sung for 70 years. Where was this fuss last year? 5 years ago? 10?

Obviously I can't speak for their whole country but the majority of my colleagues at BAE/EADS find it "tinpot" in a more British term, referencing the major trophies their country has collected since both the war and our one sole honour on the international stage. They don't really care.

 

[Renegade]

Which makes it even worse, surely?
Whilst games against Germany are obviously a trigger for these sort of songs let's not pretend it's the only occasion when we hear them. Whilst I'm not defending them I just don't really see the need to start nailing our fans to the stake when it's a song that's been frequently sung for 70 years. Where was this fuss last year? 5 years ago? 10?

Obviously I can't speak for their whole country but the majority of my colleagues at BAE/EADS find it "tinpot" in a more British term, referencing the major trophies their country has collected since both the war and our one sole honour on the international stage. They don't really care.

Why? To me it's worse when you sing the song to the nation you're mocking, after booing their national anthem. It certainly makes it more apparent and explains why Twitter and newspapers reacted to the song with such negativity. Lincoln City probably aren't going to annoy many Germans considering 99.99% of German people don't know who they are or attend their games. I doubt the Lincoln fans were actually thinking about Germans when they were singing the song on BBC, it's part of their tradition. The England fans were singing it at Germans.

Sometimes kicking up a fuss is required to get rid of a bad thing. The song has been criticised many times before, the criticism probably just seems more obvious now because of social media. And yeah, I assume German fans find it as tinpot and pathetic as the majority of British people do, this doesn't mean it's an acceptable way to treat another nation.

 

[blademan89]

Why? To me it's worse when you sing the song to the nation you're mocking, after booing their national anthem. It certainly makes it more apparent and explains why Twitter and newspapers reacted to the song with such negativity. Lincoln City probably aren't going to annoy many Germans considering 99.99% of German people don't know who they are or attend their games.

Sometimes kicking up a fuss is required to get rid of a bad thing. The song has been criticised many times before, the criticism probably just seems more obvious now because of social media. And yeah, I assume German fans find it as tinpot and pathetic as the majority of British people do, this doesn't mean it's an acceptable way to treat another nation.

It's the 1st time it's been sang in the ground in I don't know how many years. It always gets sang in the boozers and I've joined in on many occasions it's a pretty harmless song really ain't it. I guess many club teams sing far worse stuff about their rivals. I dont get why we should be showing respect to the germans either , plenty of countries in europe despise them and rightly so. Just because the war was 80 odd years ago and 100 odd years ago it still happened and many people in this country are brought up to dislike them and it won't be forgotten. Should the polish start showing them respect as well? Or any Jewish person for that matter.

 

[Renegade]

I hope you have the same opinion that approximately half the world should hate England because of the British Empire. Don't judge someone by the sins of their father. Or in this instance the sins of their father's father's father. Read St. Juste's posts again or maybe read the news some day.

 

[Super_horns]

Really, like who?

Been trouble in Russian/Turkish/Greek league games and in South America for example.

On the International front a few nations have got themselves into bother over racism and flares etc.

Sure some let themselves down last summer fighting with the Russians - certainly not saying we are angels.

 

[blademan89]

I hope you have the same opinion that approximately half the world should hate England because of the British Empire. Don't judge someone by the sins of their father. Or in this instance the sins of their father's father's father. Read St. Juste's posts again or maybe read the news some day.

Half the world do hate England. I've never booed the German anthem but I certainly don't respect them I don't like them that is my opinion. Yours is different obviously

 

[Luke_1884]

Why? To me it's worse when you sing the song to the nation you're mocking, after booing their national anthem. It certainly makes it more apparent and explains why Twitter and newspapers reacted to the song with such negativity. Lincoln City probably aren't going to annoy many Germans considering 99.99% of German people don't know who they are or attend their games. I doubt the Lincoln fans were actually thinking about Germans when they were singing the song on BBC, it's part of their tradition. The England fans were singing it at Germans.

Sometimes kicking up a fuss is required to get rid of a bad thing. The song has been criticised many times before, the criticism probably just seems more obvious now because of social media. And yeah, I assume German fans find it as tinpot and pathetic as the majority of British people do, this doesn't mean it's an acceptable way to treat another nation.

It's not going to get rid of it though, is it? Football fans in bad taste song shocker after numerous pints of lager within masculine environment. Happens every week somewhere up and down the country, it's an unfortunate trait of British football, even football itself.

Unsavoury and cringeworthy none the less but I don't see a need for a total over-reaction.

 

[Dirk]

Half the world do hate England.

Not me. I dislike some englishmen I personally met but I would never generalize that for the whole English people. l've met some really great people in your country. If you don't Like us Germans...it' s your opinion and I accept this. But we also have some really great Guys in our rows (Like me )


Btw my favourites in The uk are still The Scots. Most of them I met were/are great.

We should end this here because this iis the wc2018 qualy Thread and Germany was no opponent to England in The qualifyer. It was only a 'friendly'

 

[Renegade]

It's not going to get rid of it though, is it? Football fans in bad taste song shocker after numerous pints of lager within masculine environment. Happens every week somewhere up and down the country, it's an unfortunate trait of British football, even football itself.

Unsavoury and cringeworthy none the less but I don't see a need for a total over-reaction.

Maybe not directly, but it starts a conversation about the chant's acceptability and in time it might not ever be a chant at England games. Nothing would ever change if people didn't voice their opinions. You accept that the chant is wrong, but seem to think the nation criticising it when it happens in front of millions of viewers as a total over-reaction. If anything, the chant finally got the reaction it warrants. It doesn't matter if it happens up and down the country, the reaction is justified if you think the chant should go.

 

[blademan89]

Not me. I dislike some englishmen I personally met but I would never generalize that for the whole English people. l've met some really great people in your country. If you don't Like us Germans...it' s your opinion and I accept this. But we also have some really great Guys in our rows (Like me )


Btw my favourites in The uk are still The Scots. Most of them I met were/are great.

We should end this here because this iis the wc2018 qualy Thread and Germany was no opponent to England in The qualifyer. It was only a 'friendly'

It is quite clear that nearly everywhere we go we are disliked though especially in europe. So if people dislike us I ain't gonna respect them. I've seen our fans attacked by other fans many times and our fans beaten by the police in various countries too so that's why I don't really have much respect for many countries.

 

[blademan89]

Maybe not directly, but it starts a conversation about the chant's acceptability and in time it might not ever be a chant at England games. Nothing would ever change if people didn't voice their opinions. You accept that the chant is wrong, but seem to think the nation criticising it when it happens in front of millions of viewers as a total over-reaction. If anything, the chant finally got the reaction it warrants. It doesn't matter if it happens up and down the country, the reaction is justified if you think the chant should go.

The chant will carry on simple as that so will the fuck the ira chant.

 

[Renegade]

You are free to keep embarrassing your country if you wish mate.

 

[blademan89]

You are free to keep embarrassing your country if you wish mate.

I don't embarrass my country whatsoever I spend fucking thousands watching them at football and cricket and have every right to do what I want to and think what I want. You carry on jumping on the media/fa/police bandwagon

 

[mistermagic]

You'd think Belgium should be beating Greece. Also France winning 'only' 3-1 over Luxembourg (though they did have 17 shots at goal looking at the stats)

We don't do the thrashing of minnows much.

I was at Arsenal and I'll hold my hands up, I sang 10 German bombers. I've not done it before and I felt uneasy singing it, but I probably got a bit carried away with the emotion of the day. The RAF have a rich history in Lincolnshire and the 617 Dambusters squadron was based just outside Lincoln - so people are right to be proud of them and to hold them dearly. Still, I'd much rather do the Dambusters (where we hum the song and wave our arms around like juveniles) than sing about shooting down German planes, which doesn't have a whole lot to do with Lincoln.

As for England, I found this article pretty interesting on the matter. The England fans in Germany were idiotic but fairly harmless. Indeed the Germans there seemed pretty nonplussed about it all and just humoured them. Interestingly enough it was the English national press who made an issue out of it (rightly so).

The article pretty sums up my thoughts in the aftermath of the Marseille massacre. The hardcore hooligans are too old and too drunk to fight and the new generation are just there to have a laugh. The Russians were basically hitting on the wrong generation.

 

[epic73]

Ireland look good to qualify.

 

[Bobbin']

Fucking pathetic this has even made news.

It's a song for crying out loud, why are people so sensitive about everything these days?

I couldn't care less what was sung and most definitely not embarrassed by it.

There was a video on twitter last week of ROI fans singing pro-IRA songs. Why no mention of that?

 

[G-Dragon]

Pulisic! Only Trinidad but he is looking quality. Mexico bigger test.