Season Over?

Indian Dan

Well-Known Member
Messages
6,032
Likes
1,947
Location
Kefalonia
Supports
Swindon
#61
If the play offs don't happen we don't go down, unless there is a rule change to promote the team in 4th place. Hence, we are effectively being replaced by the play off winners.

I understand you have a few financial problems. Do you reckon you will ever see League One ?
No financial problems per se, just the usual fuckwittery between owners prior to a possible sale of the club. It does, however, seem to be a recurring problem for us, tbh.

I think I get what you mean about the possibility of not going down if only 3 of us go up, as that would make 24 again in L1 - hope that happens for you.

Haven’t the EFL decided, though, that it’s play off winners or 4th that goes up. Much the same as L1. May be wrong on that.

In fact, the play offs are a major financial drain in L1/2 and not sure the benefits of getting promoted to L1 are big enough to take the hit.
 

Millerbri

Active Member
Messages
628
Likes
191
Location
Rotherham
Supports
Rotherham United
#63
I've kept out of this because finishing the season with PPG promotes us in second place.

Our Chairman and Manager wanted to finish the season and that would have been the best solution earlier in the enforced break.

Now however I think it's too late to restart even if circumstances allowed it to be done safely with no threat to players and staff.
Playing without crowds would affect results, players are not in the same vein of form or fitness, basically nothing is the same as what it was when the season stopped on 13th March.

We are a well run Club with little to no debt and even we would be struggling financially to complete the season with no revenue. It's not fair to expect Clubs to put their entire futures in doubt be making them play on just to satisfy a few of the more wealthy Clubs in this division.

I feel for the Clubs it affects adversely, particularly Tranmere, but 80% of the season was over and surely it makes sense to follow PPG on that than worry about what would have happened in a vastly different 20%.

Easy for me to say I know and if we do go up it will feel like a hollow victory, but these are weird times and I hope we never have to experience anything like it again.
 

Huntsman94

Active Member
Messages
157
Likes
51
Location
Wirral
Supports
Tranmere Rovers
#66
Saw a report from Martin Samuel that says Wycombe will take Peterborough's place in the L1 play offs because they get awarded 1.73 points for their game in hand away to Coventry. Yet Coventry would get 1.97 points from that same fixture making a total of 3.7 points awarded in one match. Seems fair!
 

RLC

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,186
Likes
277
Location
Birkenhead
Supports
Tranmere Rovers
#67
No financial problems per se, just the usual fuckwittery between owners prior to a possible sale of the club. It does, however, seem to be a recurring problem for us, tbh.

I think I get what you mean about the possibility of not going down if only 3 of us go up, as that would make 24 again in L1 - hope that happens for you.

Haven’t the EFL decided, though, that it’s play off winners or 4th that goes up. Much the same as L1. May be wrong on that.

In fact, the play offs are a major financial drain in L1/2 and not sure the benefits of getting promoted to L1 are big enough to take the hit.
Per the EFL statement yesterday, no decision has been made regarding promotion / relegation in the event that the Play Offs can't be completed. Although knowing Parry, the team in fourth place will go up.

I think it is wrong in principle that play off teams who voted to end the season get to play further games to take a place in League One, whereas we get no opportunity to play for our survival. An obvious compromise is to include us in the League Two play offs and I don't know why that has not been suggested. That was the format the play offs originally had in the eighties.
 

Reremnart

Active Member
Messages
323
Likes
130
Location
Birkenhead, Cheshire
Supports
Tranmere Rovers/Pittsburgh Steelers
#71
i notice that not one club from League Two who could possibly compete in Play Off games has said they can`t afford to yet virtually the entire division have stated they can`t play any more League games for the financial reasons. Funny that !!!!
 

Boz

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,823
Likes
227
Location
Huddersfield
Supports
Tranmere Rovers
#72
Now I’m not a lawyer clearly, but on what grounds can you sue?
The shareholders of the league are the clubs, however terrible that is and thus they vote for the ways the league is run.
These circumstances are so unique, that I’d guess a court would sympathise with the impossible position the EFL is in.
There was a lawyer on the radio this morning who said there would be a case for appeal. He also thought a side denied promotion could appeal.
I doubt that TRFC would appeal that decision (to relegate) though the consequences for the club would be significant and no guarantee of being promotion contenders. If there are salary caps, the difference between L1/2 should not be as big as suggested, while any requirements to have a set number of academy players in the squad should be shelved unless academies are allowed to compete on a fairer footing again.
 

Kenneth E End

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,208
Likes
494
Supports
Luton Town
#73
Every lawyer will say there will be a case to appeal because they'll want the business and side with whoever is paying. It is all on interpretation. The key being what is the chance of winning, aside from going all of the way to CAS... I guess probably little.
 
Messages
805
Likes
369
Location
Birkenhead
Supports
Tranmere Rovers
#74
Every lawyer will say there will be a case to appeal because they'll want the business and side with whoever is paying. It is all on interpretation. The key being what is the chance of winning, aside from going all of the way to CAS... I guess probably little.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/footbal...2r3Ogxfxnnd99D6XNeuosxDqqblKEiO88yIjWZ-irId80
I'd expect we'd hold out for some sort of compensation, going some way towards the loss of revenue unjustly relegating us would cause. Either way you look at it, relegating a side with a great chance of survival is much worse than not promoting one who may or may not have maintained a play off place in 12 games time.
 
Messages
2,501
Likes
634
Location
South Cheshire
Supports
Crewe & Sporting Leyland
#75
Given another of Peterborough's co-owners tweeted last night saying it was the end of their promotion bid and they'll be back next season, I can't see legal action being taken and I do believe it was a bluff from that absolute tool MacAnthony.
 

Muzzle

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,071
Likes
295
Supports
Bolton
#76
With this going on the whole of the summer now, i really worry about the number of clubs who will be able to start the new campaign, whenever it gets underway.
I alos suspect, when it does get underway, they will have to extend the transfer window or even cancel it for a season, they'll be a number of us with no or few players after June 30th, and no club will want to employ players until they are guaranteed the season will start
 
Messages
2,501
Likes
634
Location
South Cheshire
Supports
Crewe & Sporting Leyland
#78
Thing is I massively disagree with a bailout though. It sets a dangerous precedent if clubs overspend again in the next few years and ludicrous fans are still expecting the PL to bail out these gambling clubs.

It was tiresome seeing fans saying the PL should bailout Bury all last Summer. Why? They overspent beyond their means. Why should they get a bailout whilst the rest of the league gets no handouts bar the solidarity money from them?

I don't think clubs will go under though. What's more likely to happen is that these clubs will offer their remaining contracted players for free to either other clubs here or abroad and may be forced to play youth teams for a season until they get their finances in order when the fans come back. I'm sure given the choice of that or liquidation, they'd take the former.

People said 40 clubs would go under because of ITV Digital. At worst, clubs like Bradford and Coventry suffered irreversible damage. But not one club was liquidated or kicked out of the league. There should be no bailouts, just a widespread consensus to cut costs and player wages to sustainable levels. If some suffer in the short-term but have a club to support in the long-term, then so be it.
 
Messages
805
Likes
369
Location
Birkenhead
Supports
Tranmere Rovers
#79
Thing is I massively disagree with a bailout though. It sets a dangerous precedent if clubs overspend again in the next few years and ludicrous fans are still expecting the PL to bail out these gambling clubs.

It was tiresome seeing fans saying the PL should bailout Bury all last Summer. Why? They overspent beyond their means. Why should they get a bailout whilst the rest of the league gets no handouts bar the solidarity money from them?

I don't think clubs will go under though. What's more likely to happen is that these clubs will offer their remaining contracted players for free to either other clubs here or abroad and may be forced to play youth teams for a season until they get their finances in order when the fans come back. I'm sure given the choice of that or liquidation, they'd take the former.

People said 40 clubs would go under because of ITV Digital. At worst, clubs like Bradford and Coventry suffered irreversible damage. But not one club was liquidated or kicked out of the league. There should be no bailouts, just a widespread consensus to cut costs and player wages to sustainable levels. If some suffer in the short-term but have a club to support in the long-term, then so be it.
I agree with a lot of the ethos of what you're saying, Yosser but Macc, for example, who are already in financial turmoil as things stands are going to be right up against it. The likes of Accy etc who don't have a pot to piss in but regularly punch above their weight will ultimately be fine, I agree - it's more those ran by basket cases that might go under. Quite right that, if a club receives a handout, all the other clubs in that league receive the same amount.

Palios has this evening said that he will start legal proceedings if the EFL attempt to relegate us. We have excellent owners, I still have faith that the right thing will be done. Whatever your persuasion on whether we should stay up or not, I can definitely say that it's not boring being a Tranmere fan of late - two consecutive relegations, two consecutive promotions and now this(!)
 

Kenneth E End

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,208
Likes
494
Supports
Luton Town
#80
Thing is I massively disagree with a bailout though. It sets a dangerous precedent if clubs overspend again in the next few years and ludicrous fans are still expecting the PL to bail out these gambling clubs.

It was tiresome seeing fans saying the PL should bailout Bury all last Summer. Why? They overspent beyond their means. Why should they get a bailout whilst the rest of the league gets no handouts bar the solidarity money from them?

I don't think clubs will go under though. What's more likely to happen is that these clubs will offer their remaining contracted players for free to either other clubs here or abroad and may be forced to play youth teams for a season until they get their finances in order when the fans come back. I'm sure given the choice of that or liquidation, they'd take the former.

People said 40 clubs would go under because of ITV Digital. At worst, clubs like Bradford and Coventry suffered irreversible damage. But not one club was liquidated or kicked out of the league. There should be no bailouts, just a widespread consensus to cut costs and player wages to sustainable levels. If some suffer in the short-term but have a club to support in the long-term, then so be it.
I can't disagree with what you're saying. And for businesses that are already heavily loss making it is hard to justify from a business sense.

But this circumstance is so unique and so devastating for so many industries, let alone football clubs.

There is a simple way out of this - players MUST take a strong wage deferral or wage cut.
 
Messages
2,501
Likes
634
Location
South Cheshire
Supports
Crewe & Sporting Leyland
#81
I can't disagree with what you're saying. And for businesses that are already heavily loss making it is hard to justify from a business sense.

But this circumstance is so unique and so devastating for so many industries, let alone football clubs.

There is a simple way out of this - players MUST take a strong wage deferral or wage cut.
The problem is, the PFA are run by that greedy dinosaur Gordon Taylor, who keeps feeding them bullshit that every owner just wants them to save money so the owners can get richer and they can get poorer. Taylor also wants his pay packet to remain the same so he can demand high severance pay when he leaves the role he should've been removed from many years ago.

If players don't wish to take cuts or deferrals, just don't play them. This is a chance for clubs to restructure and get some young and hungry lads in over mercenaries who see themselves as above society and that they shouldn't take a wage cut. Millions of people in this country have just taken a temporary wage cut or are still being forced to take an ongoing wage cut on the furlough scheme. Some people have lost jobs in higher paid work and have ended up resorting to a lesser wage. If footballers expect their lavish wages to remain the same at a time when everyone is feeling the pitch, including their own industry, then they're absolutely delusional.

I won't tar all players with the same brush, because some of them get it. But when Darren Bent said ages ago on Talksport that he wouldn't take a cut or deferral if he was in the players situation, it just about summed it up. A lot are so out of touch with society and they need to realise that this can't continue if they want their clubs to stay in some sort of functional existence after this crisis is over.
 

Kenneth E End

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,208
Likes
494
Supports
Luton Town
#82
They are going to have a rude awakening in the next few weeks some of them.

The problem you have is that if players aren't all treated the same, they will all act as a collective anyway.

And if you don't pay a player or furlough them, you're in breach of contract, so they will have no resale value and can walk away for nothing. The FA must bring in protections for clubs in this situation that they wouldn't be adversely affected if they went down the furlough route.
 

Jerry

Active Member
Messages
253
Likes
80
Location
Torquay
Supports
Torquay
#84
To be fair to our players everyone of the senior squad have deferred their wages to protect the club’s existence
Whilst this is a good gesture the relevant word here is "deferred". So they will expect that back pay at some point in the near future.

It's unlikely the clubs will be in any better financial situation for quite some time (until fans are back watching games) so this is just kicking the can down the road a bit.
 

WhiteRussian

Active Member
Messages
434
Likes
81
Location
Milton Keynes
Supports
MK Dons
#85
To a certain extent I can see why players would want to be paid now and not defer. There might be no club when the time comes to get their backdated wages.

It's not a good time to be a football player in the bottom divisions.
 

DearneValleyRover

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,100
Likes
502
Location
Dearne Valley
Supports
Doncaster Rovers, Sporting Leyland
Thread starter #86
Theres an easy way to settle this. if Play Offs can take place so can our game in hand which I think is away to Rochdale. We win that we stay up but of course you can bet Rochdale will make some excuse as to why they can’t play, probably a financial one in which case the FL in order to retain “the integrity of the competition” something they are so keen on, should offer to pickup the tab. If , as I am certain will happen knowing the way the EFL operate, we are denied the opportunity to rescue ourselves by playing this fixture IMO we have a great chance of winning any court case against the EFL our owners wish to proceed with.
Whilst this is a good gesture the relevant word here is "deferred". So they will expect that back pay at some point in the near future.

It's unlikely the clubs will be in any better financial situation for quite some time (until fans are back watching games) so this is just kicking the can down the road a bit.
True but when the club can afford it and yes it might be some time at least it gives the chance of survival
 
Messages
152
Likes
22
Location
Shrewsbury
Supports
Shrewsbury
#87
After constantly being in profit season after season and being one of the rare clubs that hasn’t furloughed any of it’s staff, Salop are looking to be in a very healthy position coming out of this. No debt, own our own ground, accounts in the green, have a top 10 budget within our means.

When football does come back (whenever that may be), we ‘should’ be one of the title contenders as we already manage well enough within budget.

Can see one or two clubs in the FL going under without a bail out (Macclesfield, Oldham), but I hope not.
 

THE LAST WALTZ

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,341
Likes
832
Supports
GILLINGHAM
#88
After constantly being in profit season after season and being one of the rare clubs that hasn’t furloughed any of it’s staff, Salop are looking to be in a very healthy position coming out of this. No debt, own our own ground, accounts in the green, have a top 10 budget within our means.

When football does come back (whenever that may be), we ‘should’ be one of the title contenders as we already manage well enough within budget.

Can see one or two clubs in the FL going under without a bail out (Macclesfield, Oldham), but I hope not.
Genuine question, why would the club not furlough staff that are not working?
Are your staff (including players) still working?
The club has no income at the moment but you are paying 100% of staff wages?
Seems bizarre.
You may be in a good financial position at the moment but if that is true you won’t be for much longer.
 
Messages
121
Likes
15
Supports
Shrewsbury
Twitter
@dannytudor01
#89
Genuine question, why would the club not furlough staff that are not working?
Are your staff (including players) still working?
The club has no income at the moment but you are paying 100% of staff wages?
Seems bizarre.
You may be in a good financial position at the moment but if that is true you won’t be for much longer.
I think the above Shrewsbury poster might be wrong. I was under the impression that the staff were furloughed, but the we continued to top up the wages to 100% for all employees so everyone was paid in full.

Luckily we're in a position to ride this out short term. The CEO sent a letter to fans the other day stating that no fans for a year could cost up to £2m in lost income, which would hit every club at this level.

I see Darragh MacAnthony was estimating restating the season would cost "only" £300k. If clubs are looking at potentially big losses into next season as well, then surely they're going to look to save this if they can.

When fixtures were first cancelled I was all for restarting. Problem for me now is that even the "sporting integrity" argument doesn't cover it now, as the conditions of the season are different. Theres been a break as long as the traditional summer break, it's like completely starting again for 9 games. By ending now it allows teams to draw a line under this season and plan properly for next season, whenever that may be.
 

Forum statistics

Threads
14,972
Messages
928,125
Members
5,131
Latest member
ayoub

Latest posts