After Coronavirus - What next for league football? (poll)

[Chris FGR]

Why void it?

 

[Indian Dan]

Yep. Tbf, they asked the club’s how they wanted the season to be finalised.

Not sure what the answer would be from L2 clubs.

 

[TrinidadsNumberOne]

The Dutch also aren't awash with cash and only have two professional leagues in the country. Relegation to the Eerste Divisie wouldn't kill clubs and Ajax and Alkmaar were top two on goal difference.

Completely different scenario to England where the money involved is gonna sink clubs if it's voided without some kind of deal.

 

[Greenacres]

The Dutch also aren't awash with cash and only have two professional leagues in the country. Relegation to the Eerste Divisie wouldn't kill clubs and Ajax and Alkmaar were top two on goal difference.

Completely different scenario to England where the money involved is gonna sink clubs if it's voided without some kind of deal.

I wonder what the impact will be on the Champions/Europa Leagues...if countries have abandoned a season without completing fixtures, for 19/20 there will be no Champion from that nation.

 

[AdamStag]

I wonder what the impact will be on the Champions/Europa Leagues...if countries have
abandoned a season without completing fixtures, for 19/20 there will be no Champion from that nation.

they’ve also said whoever is in the European places will go into next years CL and EL, even though the leagues been cancelled.

Work that one out

 

[shoddycollins]

they’ve also said whoever is in the European places will go into next years CL and EL, even though the leagues been cancelled.

Work that one out

Seems like a very bitter pill for the team that were 11 points clear in the Dutch second division, that the big boys will still be rewarded for being where they were when the season was cancelled but not them.

 

[AdamStag]

Seems like a very bitter pill for the team that were 11 points clear in the Dutch second division, that the big boys will still be rewarded for being where they were when the season was cancelled but not them.

Agreed, you’d have thought they’d have increased the top league by 1.

 

[chipmunx]

whilst it's looking promising for us Barrow fans at present - this is going to feel like the longest time ever until it is (hopefully) confirmed. Then comes the probable 6 month wait for football to start again...

 

[Greenacres]

Seems like a very bitter pill for the team that were 11 points clear in the Dutch second division, that the big boys will still be rewarded for being where they were when the season was cancelled but not them.

Dutch football is a bit like Scotland, but with three big teams instead of two, it is rare that anyone else wins the league. Teams make their money when Ajax, Feyenoord and PSV come to play against them, the rest of the time their stadiums aren't that full.

 

[TrinidadsNumberOne]

Dutch football is a bit like Scotland, but with three big teams instead of two, it is rare that anyone else wins the league. Teams make their money when Ajax, Feyenoord and PSV come to play against them, the rest of the time their stadiums aren't that full.

I get what you're saying and do agree with the economic understanding of their situation in Holland but interestingly, in the last 15 years, the Dutch league has had 5 different title winners, the same as England if Liverpool are given the league this season.

 

[Boletus Edulis]

Plymouth are one - their chairman said so. I’d imagine it’d be those clubs who produce the highest income - Sunderland, Ipswich etc.

No one has said, though, what any cap would look like. A % of turnover would be fair - which is pretty much what we have now, isn’t it?

I assumed we were based on what Hallett said. Makes sense, we have a reasonable crowd and have invested heavily in non-match day income generation. We won’t want a cap.

 

[Indian Dan]

But he also said he’d finance the club in the short term I.e. end of June.

What happens after that? No owner is going to continue funding a football club that doesn’t play football anymore.

 

[Boletus Edulis]

But he also said he’d finance the club in the short term I.e. end of June.

What happens after that? No owner is going to continue funding a football club that doesn’t play football anymore.

The question many of us have been asking. It sounded like a very deliberate timeline.

 

[shoddycollins]

We've been dependent on cash from a local business owner who made a load of redundancies rather than furlough his staff as soon as coronavirus hit, which doesn't bode well for his reliability

 

[Conker]

I cringe every time I hear people seriously considering regional leagues at this level.

Pop ya sen back to step 7 or something if you really want to divide north and south

 

[TrinidadsNumberOne]

I read The Athletic's article on the EFL today and they mentioned it would lead to over-familiarisation which I totally agree with. Imagine teams finishing 2nd in a regionalised league not getting promoted. But apparently it's a brilliant idea because attendances will go up (they won't as people will still pick and choose games).

Our Vice-Chairman said only three clubs were serious about regionalisation, with one of them being Fleetwood. So it's never a chance that it'll be implemented. If Plymouth are opposed to it when they're the furthest outpost in English professional football then you know there's no chance of it being implemented.

 

[GEORGE]

Leveraged buyouts and people loading debts on clubs to prop up other enterprises also need to be outlawed in English football too. The Glazers at Manchester United being evidence of the former Bristol Rovers situation being the evidence of the latter. Such stuff like that has led to a snowball effect in football where it finds itself in a financial black hole today.[/QUOTE]

Do you have proof of this -- Or is it just something you are surmising ?

 

[TrinidadsNumberOne]

Leveraged buyouts and people loading debts on clubs to prop up other enterprises also need to be outlawed in English football too. The Glazers at Manchester United being evidence of the former Bristol Rovers situation being the evidence of the latter. Such stuff like that has led to a snowball effect in football where it finds itself in a financial black hole today.

Do you have proof of this -- Or is it just something you are surmising ?[/QUOTE]

Why do you think you've got a millstone of £24 million round your club (as reported recently) if you're not spending that on transfer fees and you're not building a new stadium either. It doesn't add up. Are the wages unsustainable to a point that you rack debts up that massively? Or is money being taken out of the club? It's a situation that happened to our club just over 10 years ago when club money from big transfer fees we received was being taken out of our club (albeit on a far lesser scale) to prop up our majority shareholders financially beleaguered businesses. It's probably happening to many other clubs in the country too. The thing is, however immoral it may seem, it's certainly not illegal. That's why it took us 14 years to boot our majority shareholder doing it out.

How else would you explain a third tier club being in so much debt? They've not been around for that long your owners, so how can they amass that much debt in such a short space of time?

Whenever I see lower league clubs with 4 figure average attendances amassing 8 figure debts, you do wonder how it's all adding up? This is why greater regulation of football financing is needed. And that day is sure to come.

 

[Chris FGR]

Pretty clear regionalisation won't happen.

Also pretty clear a salary cap will.

 

[Boletus Edulis]

I read The Athletic's article on the EFL today and they mentioned it would lead to over-familiarisation which I totally agree with. Imagine teams finishing 2nd in a regionalised league not getting promoted. But apparently it's a brilliant idea because attendances will go up (they won't as people will still pick and choose games).

Our Vice-Chairman said only three clubs were serious about regionalisation, with one of them being Fleetwood. So it's never a chance that it'll be implemented. If Plymouth are opposed to it when they're the furthest outpost in English professional football then you know there's no chance of it being implemented.

You will see on an other thread I reported about a zoom forum we just had. Hallett categorically argued against regional teams. First, he and the CEO, said that travel was not that big a cost. Second, travelling so far was part of our brand - that people liked it. As you say if we, and say Carlisle are against it, I cannot see it having legs. Shoddy what is Carlisle’s view.

 

[Chris FGR]

We're officially against regionalisation too.

 

[TrinidadsNumberOne]

You will see on an other thread I reported about a zoom forum we just had. Hallett categorically argued against regional teams. First, he and the CEO, said that travel was not that big a cost. Second, travelling so far was part of our brand - that people liked it. As you say if we, and say Carlisle are against it, I cannot see it having legs. Shoddy what is Carlisle’s view.

I think a lot of people seem to forget a few things when they argue about regionalisation.

1. A lot of people up North (Pilley is probably one of them) fail to realise the South is a lot wider than the North is. It's just as easy for Argyle to get to the Midlands than London and even easier for them to get to the North West and Yorkshire than East Anglia. For ourselves, it's much quicker to get to London and Bristol than it is the North East. And we'd comfortably be in a Northern division in any regional alignment.

2. Like you say, travel isn't as big a cost a people think. And away fans love the idea of travelling far distances to support their team. Whether it's 1000 Plymouth fans or 250 Hartlepool fans, travelling will always be popular and the hardcore would resist any attempt to change that.

3. Clubs aren't going to vote for a system that means less promotion places. Pilley is just thinking of a ploy in the hope he could get more away fans to Fleetwood. An idea that would backfire considerably when those who pick and choose games would probably put Fleetwood at the bottom of the list unless they were a very local side.

Seems our owners echoed a lot of what Simon Hallett said when they were interviewed, although understandably, they were more welcoming of a hard cap than Argyle were.

A friend of mine today who works for Whitby Morrison (a company owned by one of our Directors) received an email from his boss today. His boss mentioned that following preliminary talks by all the owners, the EFL are exploring the idea of playing the Championship to a conclusion and ending Leagues 1 and 2 by means of PPG. Whilst relegation would obviously be happening in League One in such a scenario, there are conflicting stories regarding Stevenage's fate. But I feel PPG and the adoption of a playoff tournament in the Conference (despite their regular season ending) before 30th June would be enough to sink Stevenage.

The EFL are also looking at a playoff tournament being played before the 31st July deadline for L1 and L2 clubs in the playoff positions after PPG as a form of compromise. I think this would be feasible, but if it's unsafe to resume football it wouldn't get off the ground. If relegation was to be postponed though and divisions temporarily aligned for one year, I can only see Port Vale and Bradford being the only clubs in League Two opposed to it as they were just outside of the playoffs. But it's the fairest possible way. Although League One's playoff places are far less clearer cut than the ones in this division.

 

[valefan16]

Having the play offs would be silly, we’ve had our hardest spell on paper whereas Northampton for example still have a real rough run in on paper so how could PPG be fair there (not to mention our form is one of the leagues best since Xmas). Unless miles ahead in any situation it’s hard to see how promotions can be decided nor relegations. Bolton and Southend for example fair enough and Stevenage such is the gap but what about the tighter situations

 

[TrinidadsNumberOne]

Having the play offs would be silly, we’ve had our hardest spell on paper whereas Northampton for example still have a real rough run in on paper so how could PPG be fair there (not to mention our form is one of the leagues best since Xmas). Unless miles ahead in any situation it’s hard to see how promotions can be decided nor relegations. Bolton and Southend for example fair enough and Stevenage such is the gap but what about the tighter situations

My personal view is scrap them for this year and this year only. But my reckoning is the League One clubs have lobbied given how tight their situation is in that division. And whatever will go for them will go for us if it's feasible.

However, looking at it from their perspective, it's clear that the EFL won't void the season due to the repercussions from up above, so they'll go for the option that least affects member clubs. If they went for PPG with promotion, playoffs and relegation, only a minority would be dead against it. And if we're looking at solely Leagues 1 and 2, only Tranmere and the sides on the fringes of the playoffs in both divisions would have a real just reason against it compared to Bolton, Southend and Stevenage whose goose is cooked. Relegation and the introduction of playoffs based on PPG would sway the 8 playoff clubs and those who would survive potentially being clawed back by Tranmere in any vote. I think the owners would convince those with nothing to play for to vote for the playoff compromise option too so that's the road we're inevitably going to be going down in the long run I feel. Even if it means a few top half clubs on the outside looking in not getting a chance to hit 46 games and Tranmere going down although they've been bottom three for the majority of the season so it's hardly a massive injustice.

Any hopes of playoffs happening though would depend on the PL and Champ's masterplan to go ahead behind closed doors. If that was to fail, which it probably would, then playoffs are off the table and we're looking at other options mentioned before.

 

[AdamStag]

It’s a bit like the conference - they’ve cancelled the season but on about doing playoffs.

If you cancel the season you cancel the season, you can’t have some mystery playoffs 3 months after the teams have last played.

 

[Chris FGR]

Stupid idea. Won't happen.

Are Conference clubs in the play off places supposed to hang on until July or whatever paying their players and keeping them fit just in case it might be possible to play playoffs behind closed doors?

Ppg promote the top 4 from league 2 is the only option that makes sense imo. No more games can or should be played.

 

[valefan16]

I personally think use the FM simulation and promote top 4

https://www.skysports.com/football/...-2020-predicts-final-sky-bet-league-two-table

 

[shoddycollins]

I personally think use the FM simulation and promote top 4

https://www.skysports.com/football/...-2020-predicts-final-sky-bet-league-two-table

Was hellogregory in charge of running the simulation? How have we managed to only pick up three more points in a run in that included, Scunthorpe, Orient, Stevenage and Macclesfield?

 

[Boletus Edulis]

The view put out today was PPG, meaning we would be promoted and no relegations. Sounded a tactical argument to me to get the votes.

 

[northstandexile]

If the season cannot be completed the fairest way it can be sorted without a big legal battle is

Use PPG to decide positions
No relegations
No Play offs
Just promote auto positions
this leaves next season with a
22-24-24-22 make up.
increase relegations the following season to sort the numbers back to 20-24-24-24.