Arsenal in crisis

[G.B]

Of course. This is a common criticism of using these stats - there are extreme occurrences like a Gary Cahill key pass to Mikel. However, I'm not using this metric to compare two players who will have maybe a handful of these instances - I'm comparing two players expected to be the main creators for their side. These bizarre circumstances would only make banalities of a CB to CB comparison - i.e., "Gary Cahill is much better than Chris Smalling, he has a key pass this season!"

It's a valid criticism though. In the example I gave (a somewhat extreme example, ganted) there's no way anyone should/would describe that pass as "key". Players smash hopeful shots at goal frequently (Haidara had 3 or 4 shit attempts last night for example), I'm not sure being the last one to touch the ball before they do it is any real indication of quality. Not that I'm saying the statistic is entirely pointless, just more so than many others, such a chances created, strike ratio etc.

 

[JoshBCFC]

He is 3rd in key passes with 16 behind Özil at 18 - so if Özil had played 5 and continued his average of 4.5 chances a game, he'd be at 22 (rounded down) - 6 ahead of Hazard. "Good" is a relative term for the most talented player in the league- and Chelsea's dreadful start compounds this. My initial inclusion of these metrics was in response to a post claiming Özil wasn't one of the best CAM's in the league - I offered a response that went beyond "lol, you're wrong".

Here's a good side by side comparison: http://www.squawka.com/comparison-m...on/total_forward_passes/key_passes/assists#90

Premier League clubs spend millions of dollars on this stuff (considerably more detailed data, granted) - what is the argument why they shouldn't? Arguments against analytic are often lazy rhetoric. Data doesn't equate results, but it does identify trends - i.e. Arsenal are creating more chances than any side, but have the worst conversion rate. Their conversion rate is significantly below their average and below the Premier League average - unless we genuinely believe the likes of Alexis, Giroud, and Walcott are below average Premier League finishers, "goals will come" isn't a far-fetched hypothesis.

Presumably this is key passes completed. A key pass could be a shit pass which would end up at somebody's feet and they take a shot and it hits the corner flag and goes out. Stats aren't the full picture. I was pointing out (on the 2nd of September) that Ozil's form at that moment was not Premier League winning quality. At that point, I reckon I would've been right.

 

[thespus]

Presumably this is key passes completed. A key pass could be a shit pass which would end up at somebody's feet and they take a shot and it hits the corner flag and goes out. Stats aren't the full picture. I was pointing out (on the 2nd of September) that Ozil's form at that moment was not Premier League winning quality. At that point, I reckon I would've been right.

Yes, it's key passes completed. Since the 2nd of September Arsenal have played one match - "at that point". On what basis do you reckon you would have been right?

I'm not sure being the last one to touch the ball before they do it is any real indication of quality. Not that I'm saying the statistic is entirely pointless, just more so than many others, such a chances created, strike ratio etc.

Chances created = key passes + assists. That was what I was originally discussing until the Hazard example came about - Özil leads in chances created per game, too.

Of course there a few "soft" key passes, but when someone consistently leads in a metric, probability theory dictates it's a useful supporting figure for performance. I've never claimed it to be perfect. The data is raw, and nowhere have I opined these stats should be the only consideration, but it's a useful tool. I happen to prefer using analytics to make a point then the abundance of traditional cliches.

 

[G-Dragon]

Since Arsenal fans seem to like stats so much..
Mikel Arteta's game vs Zagreb by numbers:
0 chances created
0 tackles won
0 aerial duels won
0 shots
0 crosses

Captain, Leader, Legend!

 

[Super_horns]

It would be typical Arsenal if they beat Bayern twice having lost last night.

 

[smat]

That wouldn't be typical Arsenal at all. Typical Arsenal would be losing twice, still somehow scraping through, and losing comfortably at home to Barcelona, going out despite a spirited performance in the away leg.

 

[SALTIRE]

That wouldn't be typical Arsenal at all. Typical Arsenal would be losing twice, still somehow scraping through, and losing comfortably at home to Barcelona, going out despite a spirited performance in the away leg.

... then the fans flailing Wenger publicly before rimming him when he scrapes them into the CL positions yet again. Shame they accept such mediocrity.

 

[smat]

... then the fans flailing Wenger publicly before rimming him when he scrapes them into the CL positions yet again. Shame they accept such mediocrity.

AND YOU'D KNOW A THING OR TWO ABOUT MEDIOCRITY

 

[SALTIRE]

AND YOU'D KNOW A THING OR TWO ABOUT MEDIOCRITY

Ooh caps Smat, touch a raw nerve per chance?

 

[smat]

I'M PERFECLTY CLAM

 

[thespus]

Since Arsenal fans seem to like stats so much..
Mikel Arteta's game vs Zagreb by numbers:
0 chances created
0 tackles won
0 aerial duels won
0 shots
0 crosses

Captain, Leader, Legend!

Arteta was shit - I'm glad the data concludes what eyes led me to believe! He should be playing against weaker opposition at the Emirates - I think Wenger made a mistake there. I wasn't able to watch my recording until yesterday. We stared off well and then Giroud has a mare. We were dross after that. No complaints about the red or the result.

 

[JoshBCFC]

Yes, it's key passes completed. Since the 2nd of September Arsenal have played one match - "at that point". On what basis do you reckon you would have been right?



Chances created = key passes + assists. That was what I was originally discussing until the Hazard example came about - Özil leads in chances created per game, too.

Of course there a few "soft" key passes, but when someone consistently leads in a metric, probability theory dictates it's a useful supporting figure for performance. I've never claimed it to be perfect. The data is raw, and nowhere have I opined these stats should be the only consideration, but it's a useful tool. I happen to prefer using analytics to make a point then the abundance of traditional cliches.

Again, stats aren't everything. As i also said, a key pass could be a shit pass which would end up at somebody's feet and they take a shot and it hits the corner flag and goes out. Stats aren't the full picture.

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

I'M PERFECLTY CLAM

 

[The Iron]

Wenger is down, but not yet out.

 

[mistermagic]

I didn't find a lot of Arsenal with my slating of Rosicky not being good enough but that's exactly the type of player that Wenger is loyal to and who should be sold because you don't win leagues with this type of players but finish in the challenging slots.
Arsenal will win something meaningful once Deschamps is in charge.

 

[Tilbury]

These types of players can play a part, ala john obi mikel at chelsea.

 

[Letsby Avenue]

Is this a Piers Morgan thread ?

A guy screaming on Twatter for Arsene's removal, for what ~~ 18 months at least ?

My only puzzle ~ being an outsider ~ is the paucity of Arsene's history of recruitment ~ in recent times.

Granted ! The raids on Southampton's Academy in years past got two gems ~ and earlier raids in "disguise"

got him Henry. They all went through his alchemist broth and came out superb for the gooners.

BUT? ~~~ what since ? The gap between poaching "potential" for chicken-feed and converting them to multi-million has been a bit dead ~~ in recent times

Arsene used to be about ~ "buy young-train-improve-sell high" ~~ not anymore I feel.
The need for English players has stymied him I reckon ~ or the ability of the Academy Players he can poach ~~ has diminished ~ ~ other clubs are watching Academys now, when he got abused for buying Walcott, other clubs would wish they were on the mark now.

I think Arsene doesn'rt want to buy "high" ~ with a less resale price.
But his early career success has been overtaken by Chelsea and Man City ~ who buy more ~ loan out more etc.

Arsene has, imo, been surpassed by the more cunning and richer elements.

He is actually ~~~ Mr Chips ~~ Col Blimp ~~~ a man who manners and belief have been pushed aside as progress and greed continue.

IMO

 

[thespus]

Arsenal lead the league in shots per game, chances created, possession, passing accuracy, and concede the second fewest shots per game. The goals will come - Giroud, Walcott, Ramsey, and Alexis will progress to their respective mean (career conversion %). Alexis has now hit the post three times and Giroud and Walcott won't continue to miss every sitter that comes about - we know this from a much larger sample size.

Manchester United at home next. Title race comfortably within our grasp despite the awful finishing to begin the season. Other top sides will drop points at Leicester this season.

 

[Avatar]

Status : We're gonna win the fuckin league.

 

[G-Dragon]

This thread is hilarious..bit quiet here today just like the emirates.

 

[G.B]

This thead was hilarious...

 

[Mustard]

Status: thankful we don't support Liverpool

 

[The Iron]

 

[Mustard]

#dankmemes #toohot(hotdamn)

 

[mnb089mnb]

Current Status: RE-ANIMATE THE CORPSE OF GEORGE GRAHAM. PLEASE STOP THE YEARS OF WENGER PAIN.

 

[Aber gas]

Current Status: RE-ANIMATE THE CORPSE OF GEORGE GRAHAM. PLEASE STOP THE YEARS OF WENGER PAIN.

Has he died? Rip george. You'll be missed

 

[Pagnell]

Well, at least they look like they could be going out in a different stage this season. All that R16 stuff must be getting boring.

 

[Letsby Avenue]

I think Arsene is a brilliant manager and motivator~~~as has been said ~~
the Sigmund Freud of Football.
He has a compulsion to buy young, develop and sell HIGH.
He has an an anathema against buying HIGH with low resale value.

That seems to be his mantra, before Wellbeck. He's stuck to his guns this last transfer window, and good luck to him~~ but it seems to be at the fan's displeasure.
They watched Man Utd last season buy high and then take enormous losses on discarding their 'marquee' signings.
Why couldn't Arsenal do that? Take a loss now and again ?
Arsene has the final word on recruitment, whether it is to the Academy {Walcott. Chamberlain etc} or to the first X1!

If he wants to be a manager at the Arsenal in 2/3 years~~ he has, imo, ~~ blown it at last.

Piers Morgan- {pratt}- and his rants against Arsene for 2 years, may actually seem justified by some weak-tummied gooners.

Which is a horor story in itself.

Morgan right????.... on anything???---pffhhttt

 

[liu]

Going out early in CL, sign of Premier League champions.

 

[smat]

I think Arsene is a brilliant manager and motivator~~~as has been said ~~
the Sigmund Freud of Football.

I have lost count of the number of times people have said that.