Athletic Article: League One and Two Seasons to be abandoned next week

[Deepcut Cobbler]

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Cannot believe we're even considering cancelling the season while Salford relegation is still a faint possibility.

Is there a way that Salford are relegated and Stevenage stay up if Harrogate appeal the NL promotion?

 

[TrinidadsNumberOne]

Is there a way that Salford are relegated and Stevenage stay up if Harrogate appeal the NL promotion?

Freeze the bank accounts of the Class of 92 and a Compulsory Purchase Order on the Peninsula Stadium to be built for housing with immediate effect.

 

[shoddycollins]

Is there a way that Salford are relegated and Stevenage stay up if Harrogate appeal the NL promotion?

Everyone who can mathematically be relegated has to apply for re-election... fairest way to do it, unless you guaranteed your safety on the pitch then it will be decided by your fellow clubs. Make sure everyone else knows that this is about getting rid of Salford.

Decide relegation not on PPG but on PP£, rewarding those clubs who picked up most points while spending least money.

 

[darren gregory]

With regards to yesterday's events I'm a bit confused as to the dynamics of it all.
We have had praise from certain quarters like Radio 5 and also Coventry City which is purely because they are top of League one .
Now it's brilliant for us to get praise as we've been fending off shite for about 4 years with our previous incumbent.

However, surely a 23/1 vote would of been sufficient ?
Maybe only a unanimous vote was acceptable, we might never know .

Either way instead of a United 72 ( 71 at the moment ) we now have the possibility of all 3 Divisions doing their own thing.
Does that reflect badly on Parry or am I too critical there ?

 

[Si Robin]

I don't think Parry and the EFL can win - they make a decision they think is for the best then they leave themselves open to legal action. They leave it in the hands of the clubs then it creates the scenario in League 1.

 

[TrinidadsNumberOne]

With regards to yesterday's events I'm a bit confused as to the dynamics of it all.
We have had praise from certain quarters like Radio 5 and also Coventry City which is purely because they are top of League one .
Now it's brilliant for us to get praise as we've been fending off shite for about 4 years with our previous incumbent.

However, surely a 23/1 vote would of been sufficient ?
Maybe only a unanimous vote was acceptable, we might never know .

Either way instead of a United 72 ( 71 at the moment ) we now have the possibility of all 3 Divisions doing their own thing.
Does that reflect badly on Parry or am I too critical there ?

Parry has offered leadership and solutions. Given the bulk of the EFL TV deal goes to the Championship, I can see why they want to continue. League One is full of egos and that's why they've not come to a consensus, this isn't Parry's fault at all, more the fault of DMAC, Pilley and the rest. This is because they all want a crack at the increased revenue the Championship brings. Whereas the lesser sides in League 1 are more on our wavelength in realising it's not cost-efficient to continue the season.

I'm just grateful it wasn't Shaun Harvey in charge of all this else the game as we know it would definitely have been dead given how much of a Premier League shill that horrible man was.

 

[Kenneth E End]

Does that reflect badly on Parry or am I too critical there ?

Not at all. It is a total nonsense.

 

[shoddycollins]

With regards to yesterday's events I'm a bit confused as to the dynamics of it all.
We have had praise from certain quarters like Radio 5 and also Coventry City which is purely because they are top of League one .
Now it's brilliant for us to get praise as we've been fending off shite for about 4 years with our previous incumbent.

However, surely a 23/1 vote would of been sufficient ?
Maybe only a unanimous vote was acceptable, we might never know .

Either way instead of a United 72 ( 71 at the moment ) we now have the possibility of all 3 Divisions doing their own thing.
Does that reflect badly on Parry or am I too critical there ?

All for blaming Parry, he hasn't had time to stamp his authority on the league yet but I'm worried he's shaping up to be even worse than Harvey. I presumed the praise was for the way Port Vale and other L2 clubs conducted themselves considering it sounds like the L1 discussion degenerated into a slanging match.

 

[TrinidadsNumberOne]

All for blaming Parry, he hasn't had time to stamp his authority on the league yet but I'm worried he's shaping up to be even worse than Harvey. I presumed the praise was for the way Port Vale and other L2 clubs conducted themselves considering it sounds like the L1 discussion degenerated into a slanging match.

Given Parry has opposed the Premier League's bullying tactics and is all in favour of driving down ridiculous overspending across all divisions of the EFL (whereas that idiot before encouraged it), he's a far better option. He won't be perfect, he'll make decisions that upsets some clubs, but I genuinely believe he's for the long term stability of lower league football and will steer the ship in that direction.

Harvey was using us as a stepping stone to get Richard Scudamore's job, I'm absolutely convinced.

 

[Kenneth E End]

You're correct about Harvey, but he was a known shyster in his previous guise.

As for Parry, it's a bit rich suddenly opposing the Premier League when he was one of the biggest factors in the growth of that brand, as well as creating parachute payments.

 

[TrinidadsNumberOne]

You're correct about Harvey, but he was a known shyster in his previous guise.

As for Parry, it's a bit rich suddenly opposing the Premier League when he was one of the biggest factors in the growth of that brand, as well as creating parachute payments.

I saw an interesting article a few years back. Lord Sugar, equally as complicit at creating the Premier League brand due to his vested interests in Tottenham and Amstrad (who made the Sky boxes and dishes at the time) have said even they didn't expect it to become the monster it's become today. It was almost like an admission of guilt and regret. Whether you believe him or not is entirely up to the reader, but could Parry also share a similar view?

I believe Scudamore created the parachute payments as they came long after Parry left to become Chief Executive of Liverpool. They weren't always there. But they were created in response to the finances at big city ex-PL clubs like Sheffield Wednesday, Forest, Derby, Leicester, Leeds, Bradford, Coventry and Southampton all going down the swanny. But most of this was down to lost ITV Digital revenue and overspending on clubs part. Sadly, they too have now been blown out of proportion, and caused clubs not in recipient of said payments to amass ridiculous budgets without the income to sustain them. (See Reading).

 

[Boletus Edulis]

You're correct about Harvey, but he was a known shyster in his previous guise.

As for Parry, it's a bit rich suddenly opposing the Premier League when he was one of the biggest factors in the growth of that brand, as well as creating parachute payments.

Okay, but he is in a better position to know what levers to push to make a difference. He has already been able to educate the Min of Sport and his oppo.

 

[Trapdoor]

A statement from Tagg, one of the most hated men at our club.

Huh ??????

I dont think anyone at the club hates Tagg??? He's generally well liked and a perfectly reasonable chap. I'm not sure if youre actually an Exeter fan at this point.

 

[Devon_Lad]

Huh ??????

I dont think anyone at the club hates Tagg??? He's generally well liked and a perfectly reasonable chap. I'm not sure if youre actually an Exeter fan at this point.

He's hated by literally everyone I know. For his oversize pay cheque, for not wanting us to get promoted, to spending clubs money on a ridiculously expensive personal car with his own personal number plate. From siphoning money out in 2005 from the OT draw.

Do you go to watch games? Speak with anyone on the BB. Nobody likes the bloke.

 

[Indian Dan]

Death in Paradise

 

[Luke Imp]

Tranmere were flying as well, don't know exact stats but definitely were on a great run of form

3 wins on the spin, but that only took them up to 8 wins for the season.

Colchester's twitter says a vote will occur on Monday that needs the ratification of at least 13 out of 24 Championship clubs and 24 out of 47 L1 and L2 clubs which will preserve promotion, playoffs and relegation BUT ALSO potentially allow Stevenage a reprieve from relegation to non league. This will now be for UNWEIGHTED PPG as opposed to weighted PPG.

Given the Championship want to complete the season, I think the majority will vote in favour anyway, and given most League Two clubs want the season to end, I think DMAC and the boys haven't a leg to stand on in their rebellious cause.

Interestingly, I think Peterborough will be absolutely shafted by unweighted PPG so I can't wait to see his meltdown next week when this passes. I can't see it not passing now it's no longer 75% but a straight majority.

How L2 have done it has completely shown up the minority in L1. Most of L1 have sat back and are letting things take its course but the vocal minority can't keep their mouth shut (only McAnthony and Piley - Oxford, Pompey etc have remained quiet bar short statements). The former two have found their way onto TV and radio all week.

Not that we needed any proof, but the fact Vale, for example, have looked at the situation and seen that other clubs can't afford to continue and taken a hit themselves whereas the view of Piley and McAnthony is that it's not their fault if others clubs aren't as highly financed and can't afford to continue shows where we're at.

I'm sure I read that McAnthony had also suggested playing the season out but giving teams the option of not playing if they don't wish to and handing 3 points to the opponents! He'll be after extended PO's as well.

 

[TrinidadsNumberOne]

3 wins on the spin, but that only took them up to 8 wins for the season.


How L2 have done it has completely shown up the minority in L1. Most of L1 have sat back and are letting things take its course but the vocal minority can't keep their mouth shut (only McAnthony and Piley - Oxford, Pompey etc have remained quiet bar short statements). The former two have found their way onto TV and radio all week.

Not that we needed any proof, but the fact Vale, for example, have looked at the situation and seen that other clubs can't afford to continue and taken a hit themselves whereas the view of Piley and McAnthony is that it's not their fault if others clubs aren't as highly financed and can't afford to continue shows where we're at.

I'm sure I read that McAnthony had also suggested playing the season out but giving teams the option of not playing if they don't wish to and handing 3 points to the opponents! He'll be after extended PO's as well.

I've detested Fleetwood ever since they were in the North West Counties with Nantwich Town and both clubs started to move up the ladder at the same time. It's a protest vehicle for one man who was rejected by the club he supported (Blackpool) by the Oystons. But the protest is now over. If Blackpool had another miracle run to the Premier League, and yes that's unlikely, there wouldn't be a need for Fleetwood as many would jump ship. To think AFC Fylde genuinely thought they could copy Pilley's idea and become the premier football team on the Fylde Coast too. Laughable.

The fact Pilley is pumping tens of millions into a club that play in a small town in the arse end of Lancashire, with no potential for growth bar maybe a one season stint in the Championship, in a 5,500 capacity ground, in the shadow of a much larger town who back their local team and also another sizable club who already offer Championship football, not to mention the wider region which has 4 of England's 10 biggest clubs in it. It's ridiculous. It's a good job Pilley is only 50 years old and in good health, because look at Brookes Mileson at Gretna many years ago. Pumping money into a tiny club with a tiny fanbase before suddenly dying and no one had any enthusiasm to prolong the project.

Maybe Pilley wants them in the Championship to get a return on his ludicrous investment as he knows investing big to pursue Premier League football would be financial seppuku. At least with Peterborough there's potential for them to establish themselves at the Championship level, but DMACs amateur dramatics and short-termism has prevented that from happening repeatedly each year. I'm no fan of Bournemouth, but look at how continuity got them and Swansea up the leagues over the years. Peterborough spend big but axe the players after 6 or 12 months, change managers regularly and have massive squad churns each year. He's an awful football owner and this is why he is like he is. But because of his transparency, your average Talksport listening PL armchair dullard thinks he's great because he communicates with fans.

These Chairmen are so engrossed in playing their own version of Football Manager, they fail to see the clubs like Rochdale, Accrington and Burton can't possibly sustain such big bills for the rigorous testing and unfurloughed wages combined. I can see why Pilley was massively in favour of salary caps a few months back though, maybe he's sick and tired of putting vast millions in for little reward?

Until we promote sustainability over short-term benefactors, egomaniac owners will constantly riddle the game. I don't see it changing anytime soon either.

 

[shoddycollins]

You're correct about Harvey, but he was a known shyster in his previous guise.

As for Parry, it's a bit rich suddenly opposing the Premier League when he was one of the biggest factors in the growth of that brand, as well as creating parachute payments.

He hasn't had much chance for us to judge him on his actions so I'm aware I could be jumping to conclusions but his early comments pissed me off, that the lower leagues needs to sort itself out and become financially sustainable given his role as you mention above in creating the lose-lose scenario that lower league clubs have found themselves in for the past ten/twenty years.

 

[Indian Dan]

I've detested Fleetwood ever since they were in the North West Counties with Nantwich Town and both clubs started to move up the ladder at the same time. It's a protest vehicle for one man who was rejected by the club he supported (Blackpool) by the Oystons. But the protest is now over. If Blackpool had another miracle run to the Premier League, and yes that's unlikely, there wouldn't be a need for Fleetwood as many would jump ship. To think AFC Fylde genuinely thought they could copy Pilley's idea and become the premier football team on the Fylde Coast too. Laughable.

The fact Pilley is pumping tens of millions into a club that play in a small town in the arse end of Lancashire, with no potential for growth bar maybe a one season stint in the Championship, in a 5,500 capacity ground, in the shadow of a much larger town who back their local team and also another sizable club who already offer Championship football, not to mention the wider region which has 4 of England's 10 biggest clubs in it. It's ridiculous. It's a good job Pilley is only 50 years old and in good health, because look at Brookes Mileson at Gretna many years ago. Pumping money into a tiny club with a tiny fanbase before suddenly dying and no one had any enthusiasm to prolong the project.

Maybe Pilley wants them in the Championship to get a return on his ludicrous investment as he knows investing big to pursue Premier League football would be financial seppuku. At least with Peterborough there's potential for them to establish themselves at the Championship level, but DMACs amateur dramatics and short-termism has prevented that from happening repeatedly each year. I'm no fan of Bournemouth, but look at how continuity got them and Swansea up the leagues over the years. Peterborough spend big but axe the players after 6 or 12 months, change managers regularly and have massive squad churns each year. He's an awful football owner and this is why he is like he is. But because of his transparency, your average Talksport listening PL armchair dullard thinks he's great because he communicates with fans.

These Chairmen are so engrossed in playing their own version of Football Manager, they fail to see the clubs like Rochdale, Accrington and Burton can't possibly sustain such big bills for the rigorous testing and unfurloughed wages combined. I can see why Pilley was massively in favour of salary caps a few months back though, maybe he's sick and tired of putting vast millions in for little reward?

Until we promote sustainability over short-term benefactors, egomaniac owners will constantly riddle the game. I don't see it changing anytime soon either.

Peterborough have been playing decent, watchable football for years. Yet they still only get around 6000 for a home game. There are some clubs that no matter how well they may do just can’t attract a significant increase in fans.

 

[TrinidadsNumberOne]

Peterborough have been playing decent, watchable football for years. Yet they still only get around 6000 for a home game. There are some clubs that no matter how well they may do just can’t attract a significant increase in fans.

In a city like Peterborough which I believe has around 150,000-200,000 people (similar size to Swindon) and is probably 50 miles away from the nearest PL club it's always baffled me as to why they haven't been a strong regional side to the extent Norwich and Ipswich are. I don't even think Championship football would make much of a difference to home crowds there compared to away followings.

Probably needs Premier League football for it to really take off. But they missed the boat because Fulham and Wigan had 10 years on them when it came to bankrolling small clubs to the top flight.

 

[Indian Dan]

Yeah. Very similar populations. Our attendances are nothing to really shout about, but 6000 is proper shite.

 

[TrinidadsNumberOne]

https://www.peterboroughtoday.co.uk...-discussions-fellow-clubs-and-efl-his-2855581

I said good luck getting £13 million for him but apparently he thinks a third division footballer is worth £25 million. Jesus.

But a great owner because he uses Twitter and has a big mouth.

 

[Trapdoor]

He's hated by literally everyone I know. For his oversize pay cheque, for not wanting us to get promoted, to spending clubs money on a ridiculously expensive personal car with his own personal number plate. From siphoning money out in 2005 from the OT draw.

Do you go to watch games? Speak with anyone on the BB. Nobody likes the bloke.

I know many big bankers and go to many games with my friends who stand there. None of whom have a problem with Tagg.

I think you need to check your sources on these "facts".

1) His salary is pretty low compared to most chairman of L2 clubs.
2) Saying he does not want us to be promoted is a complete myth started by idiots with nothing better to do with their time.
3) Accusing someone of siphoning money out of the OT draw in 2005 is libellous. You better hope he doesn't somehow see your post or have some extremely tight evidence for your claim.

 

[djs]

In 2020 Parry criticised EFL clubs for suggesting the need for Premier League financial support during the coronavirus crisis, despite Parry having been directly responsible for creating the financial structure in English football which encourages overspending and financial risk taking at Championship level.

C&P'd from his wiki page.

 

[Devon_Lad]

I know many big bankers and go to many games with my friends who stand there. None of whom have a problem with Tagg.

I think you need to check your sources on these "facts".

1) His salary is pretty low compared to most chairman of L2 clubs.
2) Saying he does not want us to be promoted is a complete myth started by idiots with nothing better to do with their time.
3) Accusing someone of siphoning money out of the OT draw in 2005 is libellous. You better hope he doesn't somehow see your post or have some extremely tight evidence for your claim.

Its not libellous if its true. His email is jftagg@exetercity.co.uk if you want to send him this, I can also give you his mobile in DMs if you want and you can talk to him directly. I'm not sure why you're shouting nonsense on his salary and questioning the fact he pocketed an undisclosed bonus for the 2005 match, while also putting personal expenses down as business expenses like his family trip to Thailand in 09. I genuinely don't know one person who likes Tagg and that includes the regs like Chris et all on GT including most in the BB.

 

[That Fat Centre Half]

In a city like Peterborough which I believe has around 150,000-200,000 people (similar size to Swindon) and is probably 50 miles away from the nearest PL club it's always baffled me as to why they haven't been a strong regional side to the extent Norwich and Ipswich are. I don't even think Championship football would make much of a difference to home crowds there compared to away followings.

Probably needs Premier League football for it to really take off. But they missed the boat because Fulham and Wigan had 10 years on them when it came to bankrolling small clubs to the top flight.

Its so easy to get to London from Peterborough on the train. Ive always found/seen huge amounts of Arsenal/Spurs fans on the Kings X-Pboro/Cambridge line because its so easy to get there.

 

[Camborne Gills]

I lived in Spalding for 4 years in the 80s, and Peterborough was always a change of train to go somewhere else.Many places were within an hour and a half, even Newcastle was only 2 hours up the line.
Apart from the London clubs, Forest were well supported in Spalding.

 

[Boz]

Tranmere were flying as well, don't know exact stats but definitely were on a great run of form

3 wins on the spin, but that only took them up to 8 wins for the season.

Which is the same number as Wimbledon, the team immediately above us, who we are 3 points behind with a game in hand. Also a game still to play at Wimbledon.

I can see the way the winds are blowing and it is highly likely that Tranmere will be relegated on a PPG system. It's not possible to call how the rest of this season would have panned out; we probably needed to win most of the 4 March games against teams in the lower half then pick up a handful of points from the remaining tougher games to be safe, but with the momentum we were on, most Rovers fans were hopeful of securing safety. It feels scant consolation that the probable solution is for the greater good, if your team is part of the collateral damage.

 

[TrinidadsNumberOne]

The latest article by Matt Slater published strongly hinted what I said about Championship clubs being very unhappy if League Two (and ultimately League One) decide to go ahead without relegation, as it'd set a precedent for the Premier League to cancel relegation as well.

Unless the EFL want to wash their hands dry of Macclesfield and the fact that they're almost certainly going to go to the wal this Summerl, I can't see how Stevenage will stay up.

Possibly the situation with Macclesfield (and you'd very much wager they were one of the 4 who voted to relegate Stevenage) potentially being another Bury meant that owners were more than happy to keep Stevenage in the league in the event that Macc eventually implode and resign from the league this Summer. I expect the National League to come out with a statement on Monday saying they'll want to continue with playoffs and that the Championship will force League Two to relegate the bottom club (Stevenage or, if they get further points deducted again, Macclesfield) and allow for two clubs to be promoted to the EFL if they want to get their motion passed on Monday.

Proposals for League One include a farcical 8 team playoff system which would conveniently allow for an out of form Ipswich side who probably can't afford to operate on their current wage structure in League One for another season and who are heading to the bottom half of the table on current form to be given an undeserved playoff spot in 10th place. If the EFL approve of this and want consistency to apply throughout the pyramid for incomplete seasons, then 11th placed Forest Green would be eligible in League Two, which is absolutely wrong. If the bizarre proposal passed, expect the Championship to end immediately as only the sides in 11th, 12th and 13th (who were up to 6 points off 6th before the season was suspended) and the bottom 3 would vote against it. Although this could have severe ramifications if the PL complete their season and the bottom 3 cry about completing their season but the Championship not completing theirs.

Another proposal in one of the rags was to relegate Southend and Bolton, who I maintain must face the music and be relegated as there was no way they were going to survive, but reprieve Tranmere owing to the fact they had survival in their hands still. I do have sympathy for Tranmere, but what are you going to do? Tell the League Two playoff winners they can't come up? Have a 25 game League One season for a year whilst League Two operates with 23 clubs (or 24 if the NL are allowed to promote a second side)? I'm firmly in the belief of rewarding success over failure and, if it came to it and the league maintained that there must be 24 clubs in League One and no more, I'd much prefer to have the League Two playoff winner up there than the 21st placed club in the league, which is relegated every year in any normal year. If L1 decides to go with 25 clubs for a year though, then I have no complaints with Tranmere being reprieved owing to their proximity to 20th place. As long as the proposal doesn't jeopardise the fourth promotion place in League Two then I'm happy.

On another note, Phil Wallace claiming Stevenage's relegation would be "unjustified" is the most spectacular take of the year. I'm almost embarrassed for him given how poor his side were. Football should do the right thing and send them to non-league because they were hideous on the pitch this season.

 

[Laker]

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Cannot believe we're even considering cancelling the season while Salford relegation is still a faint possibility.

Not sure if it’s been mentioned....... but who wins the mid table cup this season? Is it shared by the 17 clubs who can’t be promoted?