Athletic Article: League One and Two Seasons to be abandoned next week

[TrinidadsNumberOne]

Not sure if it’s been mentioned....... but who wins the mid table cup this season? Is it shared by the 17 clubs who can’t be promoted?

Think as a one off we should give it to the median side between playoffs and relegation zone. So whoever finishes 15th gets it.

 

[AdamStag]

The latest article by Matt Slater published strongly hinted what I said about Championship clubs being very unhappy if League Two (and ultimately League One) decide to go ahead without relegation, as it'd set a precedent for the Premier League to cancel relegation as well.

Unless the EFL want to wash their hands dry of Macclesfield and the fact that they're almost certainly going to go to the wal this Summerl, I can't see how Stevenage will stay up.

Possibly the situation with Macclesfield (and you'd very much wager they were one of the 4 who voted to relegate Stevenage) potentially being another Bury meant that owners were more than happy to keep Stevenage in the league in the event that Macc eventually implode and resign from the league this Summer. I expect the National League to come out with a statement on Monday saying they'll want to continue with playoffs and that the Championship will force League Two to relegate the bottom club (Stevenage or, if they get further points deducted again, Macclesfield) and allow for two clubs to be promoted to the EFL if they want to get their motion passed on Monday.

Proposals for League One include a farcical 8 team playoff system which would conveniently allow for an out of form Ipswich side who probably can't afford to operate on their current wage structure in League One for another season and who are heading to the bottom half of the table on current form to be given an undeserved playoff spot in 10th place. If the EFL approve of this and want consistency to apply throughout the pyramid for incomplete seasons, then 11th placed Forest Green would be eligible in League Two, which is absolutely wrong. If the bizarre proposal passed, expect the Championship to end immediately as only the sides in 11th, 12th and 13th (who were up to 6 points off 6th before the season was suspended) and the bottom 3 would vote against it. Although this could have severe ramifications if the PL complete their season and the bottom 3 cry about completing their season but the Championship not completing theirs.

Another proposal in one of the rags was to relegate Southend and Bolton, who I maintain must face the music and be relegated as there was no way they were going to survive, but reprieve Tranmere owing to the fact they had survival in their hands still. I do have sympathy for Tranmere, but what are you going to do? Tell the League Two playoff winners they can't come up? Have a 25 game League One season for a year whilst League Two operates with 23 clubs (or 24 if the NL are allowed to promote a second side)? I'm firmly in the belief of rewarding success over failure and, if it came to it and the league maintained that there must be 24 clubs in League One and no more, I'd much prefer to have the League Two playoff winner up there than the 21st placed club in the league, which is relegated every year in any normal year. If L1 decides to go with 25 clubs for a year though, then I have no complaints with Tranmere being reprieved owing to their proximity to 20th place. As long as the proposal doesn't jeopardise the fourth promotion place in League Two then I'm happy.

On another note, Phil Wallace claiming Stevenage's relegation would be "unjustified" is the most spectacular take of the year. I'm almost embarrassed for him given how poor his side were. Football should do the right thing and send them to non-league because they were hideous on the pitch this season.

But I would expect the championship clubs to put league 2 clubs under pressure as the league 2 chairman came to the wrong conclusion.

It’s hypocritical and self-interest in voting to stop relegation.

On what basis can you state you’re allowed promotion out of a division but not relegation? You either have both or nothing at all.

I can imagine the eyes of the Norwich etc chairman lit up at that - right boys, the EFL won’t allow relegation out of their competition through a vote, let’s to the same.

The issue with Stevenage and relegation is far from over in my eyes.

 

[Chris FGR]

The 8 team play off idea is ridiculous. Why the fuck should clubs who weren't even in the play offs places when the season stopped deserve a shot at promotion?

Anyway, congrats to Swindon, Crewe and Plymouth. 3 very good sides who deserve to go up.

 

[shoddycollins]

Considering that Stevenage are the only club who need to worry about being relegated by a vote I think the other 19 League Two clubs who voted to reprieve them must have been doing so purely because they believed it to be the right thing to do.

 

[Chris FGR]

Maybe Stevenage are popular amongst other clubs?

Also I'm sure most people would much more prefer a trip to Stevenage rather then Harrogate.....

 

[shoddycollins]

Amusingly Gary Neville said the season was likely to be ended because "there'll be no fans in stadiums".

You'd think Salford would be used to that.

 

[TrinidadsNumberOne]

Maybe Stevenage are popular amongst other clubs?

Also I'm sure most people would much more prefer a trip to Stevenage rather then Harrogate.....

I know we're more than likely going up and I know Harrogate are tinpot and bankrolled, but give me a lovely Yorkshire spa town with cracking pubs than fucking Stevenage any day of the week.

 

[Chris FGR]

I know we're more than likely going up and I know Harrogate are tinpot and bankrolled, but give me a lovely Yorkshire spa town with cracking pubs than fucking Stevenage any day of the week.

That's the joke.

Never been to Harrogate but every Yorkshire away day (York, Guiseley, Farsley etc) has been quality.

We're one of the clubs that voted in favour of relegation btw. So we're doing our bit to help get Harrogate up.

 

[Kenneth E End]

You cannot relegate a team that hasn't had the best opportunity to get out of it. That said, if there is only a remote chance of a team staying up, on a case-by-case basis, the EFL should look at relegating teams that have been vastly inferior and in any normal scenario would've gone down.

Durham City 10 years ago won 2 matches, lost 36 and had a GD of -141 in the Northern Premier League. They came third bottom because two other teams were expunged. If another club withdrew from the division, they would've survived. Now clearly there aren't any clubs in that dire situation, but would it be fair on them or the other teams in the division if they had been reprieved?

For me only Southend and Bolton are in that position at the moment.

 

[TrinidadsNumberOne]

That's the joke.

Never been to Harrogate but every Yorkshire away day (York, Guiseley, Farsley etc) has been quality.

We're one of the clubs that voted in favour of relegation btw. So we're doing our bit to help get Harrogate up.

Said on the NL forum I could pretty much name 3 of the 4 who did vote for Stevenage to go down. Oldham, Macc and you guys definitely did. I'm less sure but going off what Neville has said over the last month or so, Salford may well have voted for it too.

Fully expect them to go down as the EFL will surely have concerns from the Championship clubs to deal with. Either way, there's no logic behind keeping them in the league at all given that horrendous losing run they were on. We were the last team they played and they couldn't be arsed, they'd just downed tools.

I've never been the ground but I do love the town. I think it'd offer much more to the FL than Stevenage currently does as an away day.

 

[TrinidadsNumberOne]

You cannot relegate a team that hasn't had the best opportunity to get out of it. That said, if there is only a remote chance of a team staying up, on a case-by-case basis, the EFL should look at relegating teams that have been vastly inferior and in any normal scenario would've gone down.

Durham City 10 years ago won 2 matches, lost 36 and had a GD of -141 in the Northern Premier League. They came third bottom because two other teams were expunged. If another club withdrew from the division, they would've survived. Now clearly there aren't any clubs in that dire situation, but would it be fair on them or the other teams in the division if they had been reprieved?

For me only Southend and Bolton are in that position at the moment.

Macclesfield could well go bust for all we know. It's a very strong possibility. And maybe this is why other Chairmen have been sympathetic towards Wallace. If Rick Parry and the EFL Board got their way earlier in the week, Macc would've had even more points deducted!

You'd sense a lot of Chairmen are trying to put heavy pressure to maybe keep a well-run (off the field at least) club in the league as opposed to a ticking time bomb in Macc that could explode any minute. Because no one wants another Bury situation. Not Rick Parry nor the owners.

Interestingly, soon as I originally posted, I came across this...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1261941127051083778

 

[Chris FGR]

Macc deserve to stay up, they've earned it on the pitch, even with an no money and an 11 point deduction they still weren't in the drop zone.

Maybe they can get a takeover sorted before next season kicks off?

 

[Kenneth E End]

When I meant dire situation above, I meant on the league table, not off the pitch.

This is a perfect opportunity to bring in far stricter financial rules in line with what was brought into the Conference a number of years ago. No team can start the season in administration or owing money to creditors. Two failures in fulfilling fixtures = automatic expulsion. Quarterly monitoring of budgets.

 

[TrinidadsNumberOne]

Macc deserve to stay up, they've earned it on the pitch, even with an no money and an 11 point deduction they still weren't in the drop zone.

Maybe they can get a takeover sorted before next season kicks off?

They've had suitors. Most high profile one was the son of the late Les Sealey. But that fell through. I don't know why. Whether it's bad communication by the owner or the books really are that bad?

I seem to remember Macc actually being quite well run last time they were in the league, but they've lived hand to mouth ever since Steve King spunked the EFL parachute payment up the wall to get promoted, which they didn't. Askey performed a miracle getting them to the league but sadly, it seems likely the EFL members will gang up on them and get them out.

I think unless your owners are fans, it's going to be very very hard to invest into a North West football club because of the giants around us. Tranmere struck gold with Palios. Blackpool struck gold with Simon Sadler and we have as well with our consortium of lifelong Crewe fans. But there's potential in all three of those clubs.

Macc are a non league club in the league in fairness. They're a top club and I actually like them. But you'd have to put millions in them to make them viable. They're punching above their weight now but if they wanted to kick on? They'd need a new stadium and bigger gates than 1500 at home. And in a town absolutely full of City and United fans, it just won't happen.

I just want them to survive, preferably at league level, but I accept that they may well be playing (if they can play) National League North football next season if the Boston rule is applied. And that's a best case scenario from the looks of it.

 

[AdamStag]

Macc deserve to stay up, they've earned it on the pitch, even with an no money and an 11 point deduction they still weren't in the drop zone.

Maybe they can get a takeover sorted before next season kicks off?

Bury deserved promotion and their place in league 1 on that basis, they earned it on the pitch.

Sadly it’s not that simple.

 

[TrinidadsNumberOne]

When I meant dire situation above, I meant on the league table, not off the pitch.

This is a perfect opportunity to bring in far stricter financial rules in line with what was brought into the Conference a number of years ago. No team can start the season in administration or owing money to creditors. Two failures in fulfilling fixtures = automatic expulsion. Quarterly monitoring of budgets.

Interestingly, stringent financial controls regarding missed payment of wages were all set to be implemented for this upcoming season according to our Chairman in March.

I assume this particular implementation will be delayed a year as many clubs might have cash-flow problems due to a scenario which couldn't be helped. So they'd have a year with players on existing contracts before releasing or renegotiating with them and then all clubs start the 2021-2022 season under a salary cap. We'll know more about the plans for L1 and L2 salary caps tomorrow and I assume the punishments for missed wages (which will almost certainly be points deductions) tomorrow.

 

[Chris FGR]

Bury deserved promotion and their place in league 1 on that basis, they earned it on the pitch.

Sadly it’s not that simple.

Bury didn't get punished during that season though. 11 point deduction and they wouldn't have gone up. Macc have been punished for failing to pay players etc and yet have still done enough. They deserve a chance to get sorted out in time for next season, whenever that is.

 

[Indian Dan]

Nice

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/f...ng-radical-plan-split-League-Two-regions.html

 

[TrinidadsNumberOne]

Bury didn't get punished during that season though. 11 point deduction and they wouldn't have gone up. Macc have been punished for failing to pay players etc and yet have still done enough. They deserve a chance to get sorted out in time for next season, whenever that is.

What angers me the most is Bolton cancelling a game and getting no further deduction. But Macc cancelled our game (which they deserved to be punished for given it was 24 hours notice) and had the book thrown at them.

As for Bury, it was a joke they weren't punished for missed wages last season. But our Chairman said that's the reason why new measures will come in to deduct offenders points very soon. Because a club fraudulently acquired a promotion whilst spending money it didn't have. Thus costing another club, Mansfield, who actually paid their bills on time and could afford to pay their squad, a promotion that could've been worth up to £1 million extra for the club.

 

[Chris FGR]

Nice

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/f...ng-radical-plan-split-League-Two-regions.html

Makes no sense whatsoever.

Another 24 EFL clubs means more clubs to share TV/sponsorship/central funding with, and wouldn't make a huge difference to crowds either.

You'd probably end up with quite a few clubs in those leagues being part time.

 

[TrinidadsNumberOne]

Nice

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/f...ng-radical-plan-split-League-Two-regions.html

The rags and the bankrolled owners constantly push the regionalisation idea, the clubs it'd benefit the most like Plymouth and the traditional league clubs who aren't bankrolled constantly reject it. It's an absolute non starter. The Daily Mail have been going on with that story once a year since ITV Digital died.

However, it says Stevenage's fate will be non league. That's what I think will happen tomorrow.

 

[AdamStag]

A) who the hell is reading the daily mail? Urgh

B) you made me phone click on a link from the daily mail, urgh again

C) no ta on north and south leagues with the bananarama league, I’m alright thanks.

As was mentioned yesterday there would only be 2 promotion spots from each league, it’d be a farce.

Not sure I’d want to be in the same league as sides like Solihull Moore, fylde, Chorley and chesterfield.

 

[Chris FGR]

The rags and the bankrolled owners constantly push the regionalisation idea, the clubs it'd benefit the most like Plymouth and the traditional league clubs who aren't bankrolled constantly reject it. It's an absolute non starter. The Daily Mail have been going on with that story once a year since ITV Digital died.

However, it says Stevenage's fate will be non league. That's what I think will happen tomorrow.

Not only traditional league clubs are against it. We're against it too apparently.

 

[AdamStag]

Not only traditional league clubs are against it. We're against it too apparently.

Bet Vince wasn’t thinking that before you got promoted

 

[Chris FGR]

Bet Vince wasn’t thinking that before you got promoted

Haha true. Tbf we are still in favour of 3 up 3 down. But in terms of regionalisation we're against it even if that meant league 1 and 2 merging apparently. Vince reckons it would diminish the league.

 

[TrinidadsNumberOne]

Makes no sense whatsoever.

Another 24 EFL clubs means more clubs to share TV/sponsorship/central funding with, and wouldn't make a huge difference to crowds either.

You'd probably end up with quite a few clubs in those leagues being part time.

Assume both divisions are as they are for 18-19

Southern Division

Plymouth, Torquay, Exeter, Yeovil, Newport, Swindon, Eastleigh, Dover, Ebbsfleet, Woking, Aldershot, Maidenhead, Crawley, Bromley, Boreham Wood, Leyton Orient, Sutton, Dagenham and Redbridge, Barnet, Stevenage, Forest Green Rovers, Cheltenham, Cambridge, Colchester

Northern Division

Carlisle, Hartlepool, Barrow, Morecambe, Harrogate, Bradford, Halifax, Fylde, Chorley, Oldham, Salford, Scunthorpe, Grimsby, Stockport, Wrexham, Macclesfield, Crewe, Port Vale, Chesterfield, Mansfield, Notts County, Walsall, Solihull Moors, Northampton

Ludicrous idea. It won't save on travelling, if anything, it's even worse for Midlands clubs and those in areas from Wrexham to Mansfield too.

The constant "More derbies, more fans" argument is elementary as well as people need to pick and choose games. Their incomes aren't going to magically increase. And how boring will it be playing the same sides every year? I'm looking forward to a season without playing Port Vale next year after spending every season bar 3 since 2006 in the same division. And that's in the current system. In a system harder to get promoted from, it'd be an annual trip...

 

[AdamStag]

Haha true. Tbf we are still in favour of 3 up 3 down. But in terms of regionalisation we're against it even if that meant league 1 and 2 merging apparently. Vince reckons it would diminish the league.

I think it would, that’s what I admired about our chairman, he said it should have been 3 up 3 down when in the conference and then since we’ve been back up, yes it’s added to what some would call tinpot clubs - Stevenage, Macclesfield, yourselves, Morecambe, however football should always allow for movement between the leagues.

Having originally tentatively thinking regionalisation was a good idea, whether between league 1 and 2 or league 2 and the conference I’m not quite firmly against it

 

[Chris FGR]

Assume both divisions are as they are for 18-19

Southern Division

Plymouth, Torquay, Exeter, Yeovil, Newport, Swindon, Eastleigh, Dover, Ebbsfleet, Woking, Aldershot, Maidenhead, Crawley, Bromley, Boreham Wood, Leyton Orient, Sutton, Dagenham and Redbridge, Barnet, Stevenage, Forest Green Rovers, Cheltenham, Cambridge, Colchester

Northern Division

Carlisle, Hartlepool, Barrow, Morecambe, Harrogate, Bradford, Halifax, Fylde, Chorley, Oldham, Salford, Scunthorpe, Grimsby, Stockport, Wrexham, Macclesfield, Crewe, Port Vale, Chesterfield, Mansfield, Notts County, Walsall, Solihull Moors, Northampton

Ludicrous idea. It won't save on travelling, if anything, it's even worse for Midlands clubs and those in areas from Wrexham to Mansfield too.

The constant "More derbies, more fans" argument is elementary as well as people need to pick and choose games. Their incomes aren't going to magically increase. And how boring will it be playing the same sides every year? I'm looking forward to a season without playing Port Vale next year after spending every season bar 3 since 2006 in the same division. And that's in the current system. In a system harder to get promoted from, it'd be an annual trip...

Plus you'd have National League North and South feeding straight into the football league!

 

[TrinidadsNumberOne]

Plus you'd have National League North and South feeding straight into the football league!

It's bullshit anyway because the idiot who did the article thought Bury would be one of the 24 clubs that counted, missing poor old Northampton out as if you're doing it on this season, Bury would've gone bust in League One.

 

[chipmunx]

Plus you'd have National League North and South feeding straight into the football league!

it would have to be L1 and L2 regionalised IF it happened - and it won't... Can you imagine Sunderland wanting to play teams who were in L2 last season - or us*...

*even though we had (maybe still have?) the record away attendance at the Stadium of Light after our 2010 FA Cup Match there.