Athletic Article: League One and Two Seasons to be abandoned next week

[Super_horns]

They're stringing this out.

Surely all the leagues have to finish together ?

 

[AdamStag]

Surely all the leagues have to finish together ?

Not necessarily, if league 2 finishes earlier than league 1 it’s not going to influence it in any way.

 

[Super_horns]

Not necessarily, if league 2 finishes earlier than league 1 it’s not going to influence it in any way.

True was thinking of PL and Championship.

 

[AdamStag]

True was thinking of PL and Championship.

Well same applies? The teams in the championship playoffs finalists already know who’s down from the prem before?

There must be an ideal finish time for when the season is concluded (taking into account the fa cup final is1st August) you’d assume you’d want them finished for then

 

[Chris FGR]

FA cup final on the 1st August?

Is the plan to start 20/21 in September then? Gonna be a tight squeeze with the Euros in June 21. If there's a second wave of Covid during flu season it might force another break. I would try and get 20/21 going asap tbh. Play as many games as poss early in the season and scrap the league cup and EFL trophy.

 

[AdamStag]

FA cup final on the 1st August?

Is the plan to start 20/21 in September then? Gonna be a tight squeeze with the Euros in June 21. If there's a second wave of Covid during flu season it might force another break. I would try and get 20/21 going asap tbh. Play as many games as poss early in the season and scrap the league cup and EFL trophy.

Maybe that’s why the leagues might operate differently. There obviously isn’t the massive need for leagues 1 and 2 to be completely by the time of the euros (wouldn’t be ideal but clubs could get over it) whereas obviously the prem and championship would need to be concluded in time for the Euros.

 

[Luke Imp]

Surely all the leagues have to finish together ?

Don't think so, there's nothing to stop them sorting other leagues out one at at a time. They could have squared L2 away by now as they want to stop the season so that's an easy one to sort. Championship want to carry on so they could have left that to run its course and L1 should have been sorted by now as well, it's been dragging on for weeks.

 

[Chris FGR]

Maybe that’s why the leagues might operate differently. There obviously isn’t the massive need for leagues 1 and 2 to be completely by the time of the euros (wouldn’t be ideal but clubs could get over it) whereas obviously the prem and championship would need to be concluded in time for the Euros.

Thing for the Prem clubs is that they'll lose more TV money if they don't play a 38 game season won't they?

 

[AdamStag]

Thing for the Prem clubs is that they'll lose more TV money if they don't play a 38 game season won't they?

They’ll have to get them in, it might be worth while fucking off the league cup for a season or something so everyone can use those midweek slots for the league

 

[Luke Imp]

Vote on Tuesday, then.

One of the points raised by us, which is a minor but important correction is that PPG should be calculated on points won for teams who've had deductions rather than their points total at the time the season stopped i.e. Bolton's PPG should be calculated on the 26 points they've won this season rather than the 14 it's showing on the table due to their -12. Doesn't make any difference in Bolton's case in terms of league position but it will help Macclesfield's case if they get another deduction and fall below Stevenage.

Tranmere's idea seems to be getting scoffed at by most. I'm not sure why they've done it over 3 seasons and not, say, 5 or 10? In any event, their proposal, which Posh have jumped on the back on, would expand the PO's in L1 to 8 teams (Rotherham down to Ipswich I think?) with Coventry up, Bolton and Southend down, and Tranmere saved, resulting in a 25 team L1. Apparently there would need to be a 90% vote to expand L1 for a season, which is unlikely I suspect.

Portsmouth have already said they won't back those plans, which is no surprise. Why would those teams who'd get into the PO's on PPG then back a variant of the PPG calculation that sees their chances of promotion half from 25% to 12.5%? Makes no sense.

I know the Championship are planning on playing on, but if Tranmere's logic was applied there, the PO's would be contested between 1st place Leeds on 71 points, all the way down to Derby in 12th on 51 points apparently!

In L2, I'm not sure how it'd work either because PO teams have been training and gone through their testing for, what, 10-14 days weeks now? There'd be an increase from 4 to 9 teams.

 

[Indian Dan]

At least with 4 team play offs there’s only 3 games to be played. Personally, I can’t see any POs in L1/2 - and if there were there would be a big financial penalty to be paid by the participants, no matter who ‘wins’. The costs will be a huge drag on next season’s finances, too.

 

[Si Robin]

In L2, I'm not sure how it'd work either because PO teams have been training and gone through their testing for, what, 10-14 days weeks now? There'd be an increase from 4 to 9 teams.

First testing was last Friday with training starting this past Monday

 

[Chris FGR]

Safe to say Vince won't be voting for Tranmere's proposal. Seems to enjoy clashing with Tranmere fans.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1267818401965064196

 

[dannyc5]

I’m not sure I fully understand Tranmere’s proposal. Are they suggesting they join the League 2 play offs? Or are they suggesting they they stay up, period?

 

[chipmunx]

Safe to say Vince won't be voting for Tranmere's proposal. Seems to enjoy clashing with Tranmere fans.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1267818401965064196

After reading that i'm actually starting to think Vince isn't a bad bloke... Obviously i'll come to my senses - but he's right on this issue.

 

[Indian Dan]

I’m not sure I fully understand Tranmere’s proposal. Are they suggesting they join the League 2 play offs? Or are they suggesting they they stay up, period?

I might be wrong, but I think in L2 Swindon go up automatically and then the next 8 clubs compete in an extended play offs.

Sounds a real winner that one!

 

[Luke Imp]

I’m not sure I fully understand Tranmere’s proposal. Are they suggesting they join the League 2 play offs? Or are they suggesting they they stay up, period?

Stay up full stop.

They're applying a margin of error to the PPG and saying, for example, if you're in the relegation zone after both calculations (PPG and PPG with margin for error) you should be relegated but if you're in the relegation zone for only one of the two calculations then you should get the benefit of the doubt and stay up. The same applies at the top of the league as well, so Coventry I believe would go up, and Rotherham be in an expanded PO.

Nicola Palios seems to think that expanding the L1 PO format as suggested via their method increases the participants chances from 1/4 to 1/3.5, which I've got to be honest, I don't understand so I must be missing something really stupid (as must be Portsmouth because they've said they won't be voting for it).

Worth pointing out that their suggestion, along with others, is for each league to decide for themselves so each league doesn't have to do the same.

 

[dannyc5]

I might be wrong, but I think in L2 Swindon go up automatically and then the next 8 clubs compete in an extended play offs.

Sounds a real winner that one!

I believe even Swindon would still be in the playoffs under this proposal?

 

[Indian Dan]

Hope teams like playing on a dug up pitch, then

 

[dannyc5]

Stay up full stop.

They're applying a margin of error to the PPG and saying, for example, if you're in the relegation zone after both calculations (PPG and PPG with margin for error) you should be relegated but if you're in the relegation zone for only one of the two calculations then you should get the benefit of the doubt and stay up. The same applies at the top of the league as well, so Coventry I believe would go up, and Rotherham be in an expanded PO.

Nicola Palios seems to think that expanding the L1 PO format as suggested via their method increases the participants chances from 1/4 to 1/3.5, which I've got to be honest, I don't understand so I must be missing something really stupid (as must be Portsmouth because they've said they won't be voting for it).

Worth pointing out that their suggestion, along with others, is for each league to decide for themselves so each league doesn't have to do the same.

I do get that PPG is unfair on Tranmere. However, their new proposal allows them to stay up, without having to fight for it. They have been in the bottom 3 for pretty much the entire season, and this is clearly designed as their get out of jail free card. I could get behind a proposal that would see them join an expanded League 2 playoff, for example, but not this (and I do understand that their proposal will probably not effect league 2, as it will surely be voted down).

My stance is this. Coronavirus is shit, and has screwed over millions of people. It is a completely unforeseen circumstance, and you have to make the best of a bad situation. If the season needs to be voided, PPG is as fair as any proposal I have seen. We have played over 3/4 of the season, so we have a pretty good idea of the movers and shakers. Don’t award failure.

 

[AdamStag]

Why would tranmere said to expand the playoffs when the league have already said any playoffs will involve the regular number of teams?

I actually do feel for them but they’re just going to have to sit down and accept their medicine on this one, same goes for Peterborough

 

[Camborne Gills]

Why not have a one off relegation decider between Tranmere and Wimbledon?

 

[valefan16]

I would lean in favour of a play off with Tranmere included, maybe the L2 play off winners takes on Tranmere in an overall PO final. Would have some fairness to it.

 

[dannyc5]

It’s essentially a Hail Mary from them. Put it this way. This framework (PPG in event of early curtailment) should have been in place for years, and it should have been voted on in the close season with all 72 clubs on zero games and zero points. The EFL should have had the foresight to put in a framework (he says with hindsight). With this in mind, would any chairman or EFL board member have put forward tranmere’s amendment? Of course they wouldn’t, they would have been laughed out of the room.

 

[Chris FGR]

If you promote using ppg, then you relegate using ppg. End of. Either that or void it.

Bollocking about letting in extra teams to play offs or suddenly having relegation play offs which have never existed before is a load of shite.

 

[valefan16]

It’s essentially a Hail Mary from them. Put it this way. This framework (PPG in event of early curtailment) should have been in place for years, and it should have been voted on in the close season with all 72 clubs on zero games and zero points. The EFL should have had the foresight to put in a framework (he says with hindsight). With this in mind, would any chairman or EFL board member have put forward tranmere’s amendment? Of course they wouldn’t, they would have been laughed out of the room.

No but it wasn't and lets be fair if its Crewe your raging at this situation and if its Vale I am etc, its easy to say we'd not when not in this situation... but realistically we would. I accept Vale not making the play offs as we had no guarantee's we would make it even if our form was great, but in the same instance relegation in the same instance would be a real tough pill to swallow when theres a point or two in it. How could you relegate Tranmere but promote say Northampton via a play off when they could of potentially of finished 9th or 10th had the season finished? Southend and Bolton were done thats obvious but on fractional situations I think more common sense needed to prevail.

 

[Chris FGR]

I wouldn't be raging. In 09-10 we thought we were going down after Chester got booted out of the Conf and we lost 6 points, whereas Gateshead lost 0. Our club and fans took it on the chin. We had enough other games to get the points and didn't.

Tranmere are in the bottom 3 on merit, just like Swindon, Crewe and Plymouth are in the top 3 on merit. It ain't perfect but those teams deserve to go up more then other teams in L2 and Tranmere deserve to go down more then other teams in L1.

They should stop whining and get on with it.

 

[dannyc5]

Nah, not having it. It’s a once in a generation situation. Shit happens, PPG or voiding is the only sure fire way of doing it IMO. Tranmere are saying you can’t use hypotheticals, but are happy to use hypotheticals going back 3 years? A load of nonsense they have cobbled together to try to stay up

 

[Greenacres]

I wouldn't be raging. In 09-10 we thought we were going down after Chester got booted out of the Conf and we lost 6 points, whereas Gateshead lost 0. Our club and fans took it on the chin. We had enough other games to get the points and didn't.

Three points, we had played and beaten them at their place earlier in the season...their players refused to get on the coach to travel to the game at our place, as repeated promises to pay their wages had turned out to be a pack of lies, and after that their club folded.

 

[Chris FGR]

Three points, we had played and beaten them at their place earlier in the season...their players refused to get on the coach to travel to the game at our place, as repeated promises to pay their wages had turned out to be a pack of lies, and after that their club folded.

6. We would have been awarded that game. Chester beat Gateshead twice. We would have stayed up with 3 extra points anyway.