Attacks in Paris + Belgium

[Tilbury]

As the quote from the IRA said... 'We have to get lucky every time. They only have to get lucky once.'

I think it should be the other way round, they have to get lucky every time, we only have to get lucky once?

 

[Aber gas]

Erm, it's one way traffic on Freaky here... Sometimes trying so hard to be funny all the time for dem likes isn't appropriate

Don't panic the cavalry will be here soon.

 

[silkyman]

You're pulling at straws now.

How many of these are old women?

Or these?

Or these?

Or these?

You're not deluded, you're being deliberately ignorant for your own agenda if you think there aren't mentally ill people like those in the photos currently trying to slip into Europe by getting on a boat from failed state Libya and claiming political asylum.

All I said was that there was no reason why it couldn't be an old woman. Or a young woman. Or an old man.You said to investigate all men of fighting age. But all that would happen is that the people in control would use other people. If they want to blow up an airport, they will find another way.

Oh look.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/ap...-suicide-bombers-kill-22-Nigerian-mosque.html

Best ban all women, too.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-27250144

And kids.

 

[spireite]

It isn't one way at all.

You're making the mistake of lumping people in to one of two groups. People have very differing opinions on things even if they're generally left or right leaning. I don't necessarily agree with what silkyman says or departed user (which is a weird sentence I guess)

I'll admit that I have very little idea of how to prevent terrorist attacks, even if others feel they have a better idea.

I'm not mate, Freaky came in here and said mass open borders are crazy and he got tagged with 'get rid of the browns, I get it' and accused of point scoring...

 

[silkyman]

I think it should be the other way round, they have to get lucky every time, we only have to get lucky once?

No, because if they fail once, they can try again. If the security services fail once, they have achieved their attack.

 

[Tilbury]

No, because if they fail once, they can try again. If the security services fail once, they have achieved their attack.

I think you mean on the IRA, not from the IRA then.

Does border control even work to stop terrorists? Saleh Abdeslam was stopped and checked at the Belgium border, the day after the Paris attacks. He wasn't a suspect or potentially dangerous individual*, he had, the day before, helped carry out a huge attack. Now perhaps it was the fault of lax security (I doubt it considering the high tension) but it seems to me the level of security needed to completely secure borders in Europe is completely unattainable. Short of closing them which is what they have done in the south in parts.
*I obviously mean there wasn't any suspicion around him being dangerous, he was a terrorist who needed to be stopped.

 

[Freakyteeth]

The intelligence services are reportedly stopping possible attacks all the time. How can you predict and prevent someone picking up a knife from their kitchen and going out to attack someone? Should they arrest and imprison everyone who has been on an EDL march because occasionally racists go and murder muslims? There is no 'blanket' solution, because, basically, it's too easy to do.

As the quote from the IRA said... 'We have to get lucky every time. They only have to get lucky once.'

Correct, you can't stop lone wolf attacks. But you can stick a pretty big fucking dent in major attack plans like Paris and Belgium today by not having to be so soft on shitheads like Abdeslam, Choudary and Qatada, and preventing his mates slipping in undercover by doing something about the uncontrolled mass immigration from volatile North Africa and the Levant into totally fucked Greece.

 

[silkyman]

I'm not mate, Freaky came in here and said mass open borders are crazy and he got tagged with 'get rid of the browns, I get it' and accused of point scoring...

He actually said:

50% of the people in the Molenbeek district are immigrants

40% are unemployed

EU intelligence reviewing the cheerful, well-integrating friends we have living there would be a good start.

Stopping the hundreds of thousands of healthy young men of fighting age seeking economic migration into the EU until we actually know who they are would be a decent shout too....

Which to me, says 'investigate all the immigrants living in that area and stop any more coming in'

When you boil it down to it's very core.... Even if not meant as racist (which I don't think it was) the only way to do that would be to.. Well... Target brown people.

 

[silkyman]

I think you mean on the IRA, not from the IRA then.

I mixed my perspectives a bit. The direct quote was 'you', but I was reporting it from the other side as 'we'...

But you get the gist, anyway..

 

[mnb089mnb]

I'm not mate, Freaky came in here and said mass open borders are crazy and he got tagged with 'get rid of the browns, I get it' and accused of point scoring...

The "borders are violence" comment was a call back to what Ian Wrexham said a few pages back. Of course it was point scoring. Terrorist atrocity. Quick, get online and give it to the guy I was having an argument with a few weeks ago on the internet..

And I've also not accused anyone of being a right-wing bigot.

 

[silkyman]

Correct, you can't stop lone wolf attacks. But you can stick a pretty big fucking dent in major attack plans like Paris and Belgium today by not having to be so soft on shitheads like Abdeslam, Choudary and Qatada, and preventing his mates slipping in undercover by doing something about the uncontrolled mass immigration from volatile North Africa and the Levant into totally fucked Greece.

But most of the actual footsoldiers have been either born locally, (7/7) lived locally for a long time (paris), or were actually in the country legally (9/11)

Stopping Choudary ranting on street corners would only make us feel a bit better about ourselves. He was spitting hate, but wasn't actually shouting plans at people. The real brainwashing will take place behind closed doors.

 

[spireite]

The "borders are violence" comment was a call back to what Ian Wrexham said a few pages back. Of course it was point scoring. Terrorist atrocity. Quick, get online and give it to the guy I was having an argument with a few weeks ago on the internet..

I took it as he was just illustrating a point, not point scoring. In a debate you're inevitably going to come back to something someone on the other side of the argument said earlier

 

[Tilbury]

But most of the actual footsoldiers have been either born locally, (7/7) lived locally for a long time (paris), or were actually in the country legally (9/11)

Stopping Choudary ranting on street corners would only make us feel a bit better about ourselves. He was spitting hate, but wasn't actually shouting plans at people. The real brainwashing will take place behind closed doors.

Yeh, what is said behind closed doors unsettles me far more. I'm not sure I agree with letting people incite such hatred and violence on the street but at least by doing so we know who to keep under surveillance.

 

[Freakyteeth]

The "borders are violence" comment was a call back to what Ian Wrexham said a few pages back. Of course it was point scoring. Terrorist atrocity. Quick, get online and give it to the guy I was having an argument with a few weeks ago on the internet..

And I've also not accused anyone of being a right-wing bigot.

Wayyyyyyyyy innocent people have died, 1-0 !!!!!

You will find that comment was made in exasperation that people like Ian genuinely believe that bullshit in the face of what has happened in Paris twice in the last year and what is happening in Brussels now.

 

[spireite]

You inevitably have to target the most likely group to cause an atrocity. In this case it's nearly always young men (impressionable, pent up anger, whatever) of Asian ethnicity and Muslim, so that's the group you have you target. It happens in every situation where you are trying to prevent something.

 

[Aber gas]

But most of the actual footsoldiers have been either born locally, (7/7) lived locally for a long time (paris), or were actually in the country legally (9/11)

Stopping Choudary ranting on street corners would only make us feel a bit better about ourselves. He was spitting hate, but wasn't actually shouting plans at people. The real brainwashing will take place behind closed doors.

Choudary is a horrible, offensive c*** but we don't lock up people because we are offended by them. Protest him, debate with him even no platform him to an extent but just shutting him up won't change anything for the better.

 

[silkyman]

I was using it as a shortcut. If people are looking for a blanket solution then the only one they have is 'get rid of all Muslims'

The point was that there isn't a blanket solution.

 

[Tilbury]

You inevitably have to target the most likely group to cause an atrocity. In this case it's nearly always young men (impressionable, pent up anger, whatever) of Asian ethnicity and Muslim, so that's the group you have you target. It happens in every situation where you are trying to prevent something.

Okay so you've identified the group most likely to commit terrorist attacks, now what do you do?

 

[GodsGift]

Given the recent arrests, why was the security level at 3? And not at the highest level of 4? Easily said in hindsight of course, but it seems fairly obvious.

 

[silkyman]

Right, 4 suicide bombers who were all local is better than 6 where 2 were migrants. That's perfectly alright then, nothing needs changing here, it's only two explosions that could potentially happen in a crowd of people.

If you don't think what this fuckwit says in public encouraged the likes of Michael Adebola you're lying to yourself.

Closed doors of the public fucking Mosques and Majilis rooms he delivers lectures in saying shit like in the video, which he said on BBC television ffs.

These messages are very, very public.

There'd still have been six, if they wanted six. They weren't the only four nutters in the whole of France. That two came from elsewhere is pretty irrelevent. Thy would have just recruited two more locals. Banning all migrants and refugees (why has that word been lost?) because it might possibly have made one of several recent terrorist atrocities a little bit less bad, doesn't really add up.

And I agree, Choudary should have been picked up and stopped. But that wouldn't stop others doing the same thing in private. These aren't solutions. They are reactions.

 

[spireite]

Okay so you've identified the group most likely to commit terrorist attacks, now what do you do?

No idea! But not allowing them to freely go wherever they please would be a start. Processing them properly and keeping tabs on their movements as much as possible would be another. Free, open borders is definitely not the answer is it

 

[Tilbury]

Given the recent arrests, why was the security level at 3? And not at the highest level of 4? Easily said in hindsight of course, but it seems fairly obvious.

I think 4 means virtual lockdown.

 

[spireite]

Fucking religion

 

[silkyman]

Okay so you've identified the group most likely to commit terrorist attacks, now what do you do?

Chuck out the brown people. Simple. Although some of them are black. So we'd better be safe than sorry.

Profiling on purely ethnic grounds is 'a bad thing'. Look at the US where people use crime stats to justify he police shooting unarmed black men.

 

[Tilbury]

No idea! But not allowing them to freely go wherever they please would be a start. Processing them properly and keeping tabs on their movements as much as possible would be another. Free, open borders is definitely not the answer is it

But the group you identified includes many millions of people who are British/French/German/Belgians. These people as well?

 

[spireite]

But the group you identified includes many millions of people who are British/French/German/Belgians. These people as well?

Most definitely. It's a massive group of potential twats, but what can you do about that? You just have to do what you can I guess

 

[Aber gas]

No idea! But not allowing them to freely go wherever they please would be a start. Processing them properly and keeping tabs on their movements as much as possible would be another. Free, open borders is definitely not the answer is it

But it was a chaotic, humanitarian emergency. The structure wasn't there to apply those principals. We had a choice of either watching a catastrophe happen or granting asylum.

 

[Tilbury]

Most definitely. It's a massive group of potential twats, but what can you do about that? You just have to do what you can I guess

Wow okay. Just think who this group includes. I have many friends here and can think of footballers/sportsmen/politicians who you'd start keeping tabs on and god knows what else.

 

[silkyman]

But it was a chaotic, humanitarian emergency. The structure wasn't there to apply those principals. We had a choice of either watching a catastrophe happen or granting asylum.

Plenty of people in this country would have happily watched it all happen on the news, tut, mutter something about it being a shame and gone back to worrying about disabled people getting too many benefits.

 

[Womble98]

Funny that silkyman is the only one who has said anything about skin colour or race.

As long as we allow Saudi Arabia to export and finance its hateful Wahhabism in our countries this will happen over and over again. Foreign funding of religious institutions should be banned.